View Full Version : DOGE opinions
Well, President Trump is pretty much following his campaign promises about cutting waste in the Government among other things. The newly created DOGE department is shaking things up, I like the email request to some government employees asking them to list 5 things they had accomplished at their jobs in the last week. When Musk was asked about it, he called it a 'pulse check'.
No doubt the gov is bloated and top heavy and, we need to trim the spending and it's going to hurt some folks. I know it's early in the program but has anyone here been affected (yet)?
Interesting week in politics with Zelenskyy being asked to leave the White House and the shake-ups in Main Stream Media. Of course, the left is shitting bricks.
The thing that worries me is the import tariff proposition. Two words, CANADA-LUMBER!
buffalobo
03-02-2025, 22:40
I work for a large GC, we build $500 million/year plus, for state and fed gov. No effect yet(work we are currently doing contracted and money allocated long before election) but would not have a problem if a couple upcoming projects were deemed unnecessary with revelation that millions of square feet of fed buildings are empty. Much cheaper to remodel/retask.
If you're unarmed, you are a victim
The problem is that agencies are already re-hiring the people that were laid off and the new budget passed in the house still increases the debt ceiling, the deficit and spending overall.
DOGE is good for generating headlines, it has done nothing so far that will cut any costs.
We have the worlds richest oligarch, that was not elected, not confirmed, directing OPM to send messages to federal employees and terminate them without following any of their procedures. After all the terminations are completed months down the road, the payroll that has been allegedly saved will amount to about 1/100th of one percent of the deficit. That's if we ignore the fallout.
Meanwhile, the litigation will greatly exceed the costs of the employees. As well as the unemployment benefits, back pay, etc, because procedures were not followed.
Then you have his desire to replace federal employees with contractors. I happen to know a great deal about how that works. The contractors are more expensive.
Then you have their tax cuts - extending the prior tax cuts and requesting trillions more.
Then you have more stimmy checks - Elon is already trying to curry favor by alleging bread and circuses, a "$5,000" stimulus might be possible.
Economy is tanking so of course, Trump is going to do more stimulus checks, $1000 checks for you with $18,000 in other pork attached onto the bill.
Trump holds the record for an increase in deficiet spending and 40% of the national debt is from his first term.
Anyone who attempts the same thing twice and expects a different result, is a bit insane. Ignore the headlines, look at the bigger picture....
This admin is NOT good at trimming costs. It is great at controversal headlines which people like.
And again, if DOGE is a new department (they are "rebranding" one to skirt some rules), ask yourself, why Trump has to nominate people for confirmation to every other department?
But the guy who paid him $250,000,000 and happens to be America's richest Oligarch is suddenly the de-facto vice president and "department head".
I don't know about you, but there are principles and checks and balances integal to our country that should be followed. When people think it's ok if it's "their guy" doing it, you're on dangerous earth.
who paid who $250,00,000? When and for what?
I guess some people would be happier to let the gov. just keep skipping along unabashed without any checks and balances. Not OK with me. At some point the PEOPLE need to know where all the tax money is going. If one wants to believe that the gov. doesn't have wasteful spending that needs to end, they live under a rock.
eddiememphis
03-03-2025, 09:20
Theater.
Much like trotting out the Park Service employees during a "shutdown", these measures will have little effect on the overspending.
The debt ceiling was just raised by Republicans from $36 to $40 trillion.
That does not indicate seriousness about reining in deficit spending.
Until someone has the balls to tackle Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, Doge cuts are removing pennies from total spending.
I do like that someone is doing something to expose waste and fraud, and every little bit helps. But it's not enough.
The Zelenskyy thing is theater as well.
He is in way over his head, not knowing how negotiations work. He went in there, thinking he could get everything done in one deal. These things are done in steps.
He reached for the cookie jar and got his hand slapped. Flew to England to lick his wounds and was taught how things actually work. He will be back this week to sign the mineral rights deal and then it will be Russia's turn for some concessions.
Much ado about nothing. Had this been done behind closed doors as the usual case no one would know about it. The fact they did in front of the press, and the overreactions to it, are hilarious.
Yet predictable.
cableguy11
03-03-2025, 11:06
I did not respond as he is not in my chain of command. I do not report to HR/OPM so I deleted the message and moved on with my week. Now if he sent one out this weekend then they got an auto-reply to contact my supervisor.
who paid who $250,00,000? When and for what?
I guess some people would be happier to let the gov. just keep skipping along unabashed without any checks and balances. Not OK with me. At some point the PEOPLE need to know where all the tax money is going. If one wants to believe that the gov. doesn't have wasteful spending that needs to end, they live under a rock.
Elon Musk spent over $290 million on the past election.
The Zelenskyy thing is theater as well.
He is in way over his head, not knowing how negotiations work. He went in there, thinking he could get everything done in one deal. These things are done in steps.
He reached for the cookie jar and got his hand slapped. Flew to England to lick his wounds and was taught how things actually work. He will be back this week to sign the mineral rights deal and then it will be Russia's turn for some concessions.
Much ado about nothing. Had this been done behind closed doors as the usual case no one would know about it. The fact they did in front of the press, and the overreactions to it, are hilarious.
Yet predictable.
Ukraine is a surprisingly complex situation, and a lot of the data is classified.
Zelenskyy is dirty, we all know that, but so is Putin and possibly even Trump... they conduct themselves like mobsters, not that that's a bad thing.
I am fairly certain that Trump and Putin already agreed to a ceasefire on the condition that Zelinskyy sign a mineral rights partnership, which would mean thousands of American citizens flying to Ukraine for employment... and Putin bombing American citizens is kind of a big deal, especially during a ceasefire.
That wasn't good enough for Zelinskyy. Instead of signing the deal, as agreed, he flipped the script to appeal directly to the American public, on live television, basically demanding entry into NATO... which Putin stated, 3 years ago, would likely result in Kyiv being nuked. Instead, Vance gave him a wedgie and Trump sent him home without lunch... so now he's singing his sad song to the EU. Zelinskyy was riding the gravy train for 3 years, with billions unaccounted for and front line troops not getting the supplies we paid for... I honestly do not believe Zelinskyy wants peace... he is being unreasonable and petulant. I would not be surprised if he is served a bowl of polonium borscht soon.
hollohas
03-03-2025, 18:26
DOGE isn't saving money (yet?), but they're exposing a lot. That's VERY good for us. Believe it or not, many people still trust the government, I'll take any reason that helps them wake up.
The "unelected oligarch" is echo camber bullshit. 'An unelected oligarch is questioning unelected, useless, career bureaucrats'...give me a break. They're all fucking unelected.
The head of the United States Digital Services doesn't require Senate confirmation. But yeah, let's cry about Musk being appointed under the new department name without confirmation.
Anyone who thinks an unelected few are more dangerous for our country than the 3 million unelected bureaucrats need to get their head out of the sand. Our government and our CULTURE is influenced and controlled by the bureaucracy far more than anything else. A few elected or unelected figure heads have very little control. Musk will be around a couple years, the bureaucrats will be there for decades if they aren't fired. Who has more influence?
The bureaucracy is why there are tranny strippers reading grooming books to little kids in public libraries. The bureaucracy is why we spend trillions on nonsense like studying the matting habits of gay squirrels. The bureaucracy is why government contractors get paid too much. The bureaucracy is why SS is still paying 200 year olds. The bureaucracy is why the DoD has been far more interested in teaching servicemen to hate straight white men than teaching them how to extinguish fires on ships sitting in port. The bureaucracy is why the FBI is more interested in investigating Moms at school board meeting than pedophiles. The bureaucracy is why the IRS has harassed conservatives. The bureaucracy is why we can't buy an appliance that actually works. Or diesel trucks that last as long as they used to. It's the bureaucracy is why the definition of "rilfe" keeps changing.
The bureaucracy must be dismantled. If it takes a guy with a ton of money, some brains and a history of trying to do things that help society to figure out how to expose this stuff, so be it. I'm far less worried about a self made billionaire's motivation than I am career politicians who've somehow build hundreds of millions in wealth without ever actually working.
Zelenskyy was a stand-up comic before getting into politics, right? He should dress the part instead of looking like a ski lodge employee.
I thought his actions were out of line at the meeting with Trump, and Don was having none of it. I wonder how Biden would have handled it or if he would even consider that type of live-public venue?
Whatever you think about the whole Ukraine fiasco double teaming the guy in a room full of cameras was a set up pure and simple, they knew it would go down hill and used it for points.
Back to DOGE.. A quick read on the budget bill that just passed in the House tells you that it's all a smoke screen.
bellavite1
03-03-2025, 21:27
I LOVE IT!
Keep it coming.
TEAMRICO
03-03-2025, 23:52
I LOVE IT!
Keep it coming.
Plus one.
Oh, And Fuck Ukraine and fuck Russia.
Ecoboost28
03-04-2025, 08:38
This tariff stuff is going to hurt the economy in more ways that we realize :(
And again, if DOGE is a new department (they are "rebranding" one to skirt some rules), ask yourself, why Trump has to nominate people for confirmation to every other department?
But the guy who paid him $250,000,000 and happens to be America's richest Oligarch is suddenly the de-facto vice president and "department head".
I don't know about you, but there are principles and checks and balances integal to our country that should be followed. When people think it's ok if it's "their guy" doing it, you're on dangerous earth.
I'm so tired of this argument. You're complaining that a well known billionaire is heading up a obscure department that was retooled to look at government waste?
Who would you like to run that? Some obscure bureaucrat that you don't know?
"Defacto Vice President" Yeah not really.. He's not 2nd inline to the presidency and he has no authority to carry out VP duties.
Or my favorite online argument, "eLOn mUsK HaS aCcEss to S.S. iNfO!!" As opposed to obscure IRS agents that you have know idea their names?
Elon Musk , the most well known billionaire in the world is not going to steal your grandma's $1700 SS check or take fraudulent loans out in her name. What he is going to do is use his experience in running and organizing SUCCESSFUL companies and do a complete audit of the monstrous federal government and figure out how to make it operate smoother.
When it comes to cutting the government.. The more the better.
Last year the Federal governments spend $20,000 for every man, woman and child. A family of 4 had $80k spent on their behalf.
Add in CO state spending (minus the federal funding) along with city, county and even HOA and you have the entirety of government institutions spending over $100k per family of 4.
That is utterly insane and a country of 340 million doesn't require $25k per person to maintain a safe, clean orderly society.
If George Soros (8.3 billion) was standing next to the presidential desk giving briefings while Biden stayed quiet, after donating 250 million to get Biden elected, what would your opinion be then?
Checks and balances don't work when you engage in hypocrisy. Russia's richest Oligarch is Leonid Mikhelson (29 Billion). Elon is 359 Billion.
For all tooting the horn, I'm still waiting on an explanation for how DOGE has thus far, reduced any deficient (especially considering the budget they passed). Elon has announced he's quite interested in buying votes (stimulus) and we already know Trump is MASSIVELY in favor of signing his name to checks to distract the American public.
Gee, wonder what's going to happen as we enter a recession (that many will blame on Biden...), what are you going to buy with your Elon and Trump checks?
And nobody ever addresses the elephant... this POTUS has the record across our entire history for increasing the national deficit/debt in a single term. You will be fooled.... twice.
eddiememphis
03-04-2025, 09:26
So far, it seems DOGE is less interested in in cutting waste as it is in defunding the Left.
While it is fun to watch the pearl clutching leftists going bananas, remember that the pendulum always swings back the other way.
Today its tranny story time and the Department of Education, tomorrow it is the newly proposed USFS shooting ranges and the Department of Defense.
If George Soros (8.3 billion) was standing next to the presidential desk giving briefings while Biden stayed quiet, after donating 250 million to get Biden elected, what would your opinion be then?
Checks and balances don't work when you engage in hypocrisy. Russia's richest Oligarch is Leonid Mikhelson (29 Billion). Elon is 359 Billion.
For all tooting the horn, I'm still waiting on an explanation for how DOGE has thus far, reduced any deficient (especially considering the budget they passed). Elon has announced he's quite interested in buying votes (stimulus) and we already know Trump is MASSIVELY in favor of signing his name to checks to distract the American public.
Gee, wonder what's going to happen as we enter a recession (that many will blame on Biden...), what are you going to buy with your Elon and Trump checks?
And nobody ever addresses the elephant... this POTUS has the record across our entire history for increasing the national deficit/debt in a single term. You will be fooled.... twice.
Biden literally put a presidential medal of freedom on George Soros less 3 months ago.
A lot of the savings are coming from cancelling subscriptions of contracts that have been paid but will not be renewed.
But lets get to the real issue.
Do you really think that the federal government should be spending $20k for every man woman and child in the U.S?
Or do you think that's not enough?
Firehaus
03-04-2025, 10:18
If George Soros (8.3 billion) was standing next to the presidential desk giving briefings while Biden stayed quiet, after donating 250 million to get Biden elected, what would your opinion be then?
Checks and balances don't work when you engage in hypocrisy. Russia's richest Oligarch is Leonid Mikhelson (29 Billion). Elon is 359 Billion.
For all tooting the horn, I'm still waiting on an explanation for how DOGE has thus far, reduced any deficient (especially considering the budget they passed). Elon has announced he's quite interested in buying votes (stimulus) and we already know Trump is MASSIVELY in favor of signing his name to checks to distract the American public.
Gee, wonder what's going to happen as we enter a recession (that many will blame on Biden...), what are you going to buy with your Elon and Trump checks?
And nobody ever addresses the elephant... this POTUS has the record across our entire history for increasing the national deficit/debt in a single term. You will be fooled.... twice.
Comparing Soros to Elon is ignorant. The trail of evil Soros has left behind him in his life does not compare to Elon's life so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UecRfBJ2LBM
eddiememphis
03-04-2025, 10:33
https://x.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1896948147085049916
Zelenskyy just posted this-
We do really value how much America has done to help Ukraine maintain its sovereignty and independence. And we remember the moment when things changed when President Trump provided Ukraine with Javelins. We are grateful for this.
Our meeting in Washington, at the White House on Friday, did not go the way it was supposed to be. It is regrettable that it happened this way. It is time to make things right. We would like future cooperation and communication to be constructive.
Regarding the agreement on minerals and security, Ukraine is ready to sign it in any time and in any convenient format. We see this agreement as a step toward greater security and solid security guarantees, and I truly hope it will work effectively.
I have read in several places the prior the the press conference, he met with a few Democrat bigwigs like Schumer and Susan Rice who allegedly coached him on how to deal with Trump.
Looks like he learned his lesson in big time negotiation.
But lets get to the real issue.
Do you really think that the federal government should be spending $20k for every man woman and child in the U.S?
Or do you think that's not enough?
As an actual fiscal conservative, I recognize that Trump is worse for the deficit/debt than virtually any POTUS beofre him. His first presidency, he promised he'd "pay off the national debt". Instead he increased it by about 8 trillion / 40%.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/27/trump-musk-promote-idea-of-5000-doge-dividend-checks.html
Their goal isn't your goal.
Firehaus
03-04-2025, 12:28
As an actual fiscal conservative, I recognize that Trump is worse for the deficit/debt than virtually any POTUS beofre him. His first presidency, he promised he'd "pay off the national debt". Instead he increased it by about 8 trillion / 40%.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/27/trump-musk-promote-idea-of-5000-doge-dividend-checks.html
Their goal isn't your goal.
This lefty article says he?s 3rd. Their graph below shows Obama increased it heavily, but he must of came in 4th so they didn?t mention him.
Without Covid the deficit would of been much lower. Was Covid his fault? Was it China?s? Does China owe us 3 trillion to pay for it? Does NIAID need to pay for it?
Why do we pay interest on our own debt instead of using those funds to pay it down?
Trump is not perfect and has things to dislike about him, but your obvious hatred of him is well known and you?ll slant any post negatively towards him.
Have you applied to be on MSNBC?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250304/ac341d0669eaee9cf00d9eef390a761a.jpg
?The growth in the annual deficit under Trump ranks as the third-biggest increase, relative to the size of the economy, of any U.S. presidential administration, according to a calculation by a leading Washington budget maven, Eugene Steuerle, co-founder of the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. And unlike George W. Bush and Abraham Lincoln, who oversaw the larger relative increases in deficits, Trump did not launch two foreign conflicts or have to pay for a civil war.
Economists agree that we needed massive deficit spending during the COVID-19 crisis to ward off an economic cataclysm, but federal finances under Trump had become dire even before the pandemic. That happened even though the economy was booming and unemployment was at historically low levels. By the Trump administration?s own description, the pre-pandemic national debt level was already a ?crisis? and a ?grave threat.?
The combination of Trump?s 2017 tax cut and the lack of any serious spending restraint helped both the deficit and the debt soar. So when the once-in-a-lifetime viral disaster slammed our country and we threw more than $3 trillion into COVID-19-related stimulus, there was no longer any margin for error.?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
eddiememphis
03-04-2025, 13:44
Why do we pay interest on our own debt instead of using those funds to pay it down?
Global economic collapse is one reason.
When it comes to cutting the government.. The more the better.
Last year the Federal governments spend $20,000 for every man, woman and child. A family of 4 had $80k spent on their behalf.
Add in CO state spending (minus the federal funding) along with city, county and even HOA and you have the entirety of government institutions spending over $100k per family of 4.
That is utterly insane and a country of 340 million doesn't require $25k per person to maintain a safe, clean orderly society.
The whole DOGE argument being made here is that it's all bullshit. You know how or why that is? Because the new budget bill that passed the house increases the debt ceiling and increases government spending. How is DOGE cutting the government and saving us money? It isn't.
The chart above essentially proves the point too... We can argue who is 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th for deficiet all day long. Even BEFORE the pandemic, Trump was making the parabolic curve worse. Like I said, he promised to pay down the debt. Instead, his first, and essentially only action, was to cut revenue. He was as bad, if not worse, than Obama.
They made the revenue cuts permanent... and promise more revenue cuts. Budget demonstrates it's all bullshit. We'll have even more deficiet spending in 2028 than we have today.
Fiscal conservatives are a dying breed, effectively having no party.
MAGA is a different party entirely, mutually incompatible. This party in power spends as much, if not more, than their demonized progressive poliitical partners. MAGA leaders are just are better at acting like they care about it. Some of the members of the party might care, but they are nevertheless deceived.
I work in federal government. There's waste for sure, in my department not as much as you might think. But some, and it's definitely impossoble to fire trash employees. I support the idea of DOGE in general and don't mind the emails and whatever, but the way it's all been handled is pretty amateurish. For one, they don't even notify secretaries of the various federal departments that emails are coming, so nobody has any clue once they show up. Second, they're written very unprofessionally which makes it almost seem fake or spam. Lastly, they're just trying to purge a bunch of the government. In my anecdotal experience, you can lean it out but you need to be very specific about who you fire. My group could absorb a 20% reduction no problem if you cut the correct 3-4 people. Leave any of those and cut someone else and we will be buried. It's easy too, look at performance records and their internet surf history and boom you are good to go. Do it on seniority only and we will be absolutely crippled.
I also don't think making government employees the enemy and thst they're all lazy trash is the wrong way to go. I've worked in both sectors and some of my colleagues are the best abd brightest I've worked with.
eddiememphis
03-04-2025, 18:37
I work in federal government. There's waste for sure, in my department not as much as you might think...
Is what you do so unique to government that it could not be done cheaper and more efficiently by the private sector?
'Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear'
E.A. Poe
Firehaus
03-04-2025, 19:21
I find it refreshing that departments are being purged quickly compared to normal timelines of getting rid of people. Letting the government workers unionize was one of the biggest mistakes IMO.
Take the NY city process of deciding on a trash bin. $4mil to tell them what trash bin to use. Seems like that could of been done cheaper.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/nyc-trash-can-initiative-cost-city-4-million-in-consultants/ar-BB1pJZ8n
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I think It has been one of the GREATEST things to ever happen to the US Govt.
Is what you do so unique to government that it could not be done cheaper and more efficiently by the private sector?
Not really. I worked in both private and public sectors in the same field. Private sector wouldn't really be worse, just shift the cost to a different party. I wouldn't say in my field I've had more deadbeats in government than in the private sector. It's about the same. But its a professional field. On the other hand it was at least plausible to fire people in the private sector, albeit not nearly as easy as people would think.
I find it refreshing that departments are being purged quickly compared to normal timelines of getting rid of people. Letting the government workers unionize was one of the biggest mistakes IMO.
Take the NY city process of deciding on a trash bin. $4mil to tell them what trash bin to use. Seems like that could of been done cheaper.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/nyc-trash-can-initiative-cost-city-4-million-in-consultants/ar-BB1pJZ8n
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Yes unionization has been a huge part of the problem. I did management in the private sector, I wouldn't dare in government. Tiny pay increase, virtually no bonus and it's impossible to manage union members.
eddiememphis
03-04-2025, 21:54
Not really. I worked in both private and public sectors in the same field. Private sector wouldn't really be worse, just shift the cost to a different party. I wouldn't say in my field I've had more deadbeats in government than in the private sector. It's about the same. But its a professional field. On the other hand it was at least plausible to fire people in the private sector, albeit not nearly as easy as people would think.
That is an honest answer.
Those are the programs that should be cut.
If a private company can do whatever a particular government department is doing, better and more efficiently, that department should be closed.
Within reason and of course there as exceptions, but governments are not supposed to be lifetime job creators. Leave job creation to the private sector where merit and initiative are more highly valued and rewarded.
buffalobo
03-04-2025, 22:01
This lefty article says he?s 3rd. Their graph below shows Obama increased it heavily, but he must of came in 4th so they didn?t mention him.
Without Covid the deficit would of been much lower. Was Covid his fault? Was it China?s? Does China owe us 3 trillion to pay for it? Does NIAID need to pay for it?
Why do we pay interest on our own debt instead of using those funds to pay it down?
Trump is not perfect and has things to dislike about him, but your obvious hatred of him is well known and you?ll slant any post negatively towards him.
Have you applied to be on MSNBC?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250304/ac341d0669eaee9cf00d9eef390a761a.jpg
?The growth in the annual deficit under Trump ranks as the third-biggest increase, relative to the size of the economy, of any U.S. presidential administration, according to a calculation by a leading Washington budget maven, Eugene Steuerle, co-founder of the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. And unlike George W. Bush and Abraham Lincoln, who oversaw the larger relative increases in deficits, Trump did not launch two foreign conflicts or have to pay for a civil war.
Economists agree that we needed massive deficit spending during the COVID-19 crisis to ward off an economic cataclysm, but federal finances under Trump had become dire even before the pandemic. That happened even though the economy was booming and unemployment was at historically low levels. By the Trump administration?s own description, the pre-pandemic national debt level was already a ?crisis? and a ?grave threat.?
The combination of Trump?s 2017 tax cut and the lack of any serious spending restraint helped both the deficit and the debt soar. So when the once-in-a-lifetime viral disaster slammed our country and we threw more than $3 trillion into COVID-19-related stimulus, there was no longer any margin for error.?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk+1.
None of the detractors want to or will address the anomaly of COVID or the previous trends set in motion and beauracracies enabled by Bush and continued by Obama or the fact that pretty much every pres and congress since WW2 has grown Fed deficit.
The hatred of the man always shows thru.
If you're unarmed, you are a victim
theGinsue
03-05-2025, 06:31
I'm not a Trump fan of him as an individual, but as a politician I've been impressed by his ability to get things done for the American citizen - when he isn't being obstructed at every turn by every other elected official out there.
In my lifetime there was one President who was widely considered the "worst President of all time", Jimmy Carter. While he set the bar very low, along comes Biden who showed us he's an Olympic gold medalist in doing the limbo and set the bar so ridiculously low everyone else will be hard pressed to do as poorly, ever. After the nightmare that was the Biden administration, we need someone to push hard to undo all of the harm Biden did to this nation and Trump appears to be doing just that.
The entrenched bureaucracy at all levels of our governments are out of control. While there has only been a handful of agencies currently reduced, many more have already been identified to be reduced or eliminated. This needs to happen soon, before the obstructionists can stop the train.
For those pointing out the latest federal budget as proof that Trump isn't actually making improvements, I ask: Is it Trump who is responsible for the budget or is it Congress? While Trump has final approval, what you see in the budget is all the doing of members of Congress. Even if Trump failed to approve the budget and let things shut down, it's interesting to see that Congress would still be getting paid, while average citizens who receive money from the .fed, that they've earned, wouldn't. All of the entitlement junkies seem to receive money before those who EARNED their disbursements. Only Congress can fix this and they have no desire to do so.
I say, let DOGE keep pushing forward to end as much federal waste as they can. We need significant change NOW to provide a better opportunity for our children.
Is what you do so unique to government that it could not be done cheaper and more efficiently by the private sector?
Depending on the tasks, federal contractors are not cheaper than federal employees - common misconception.
The contractor's wages are often utter garbage, I'll give people that. So yes, the contractor might make $20 an hour where their federal counterpart makes $32/h (equivalent) doing the exact same thing.
However, the labor rates the company charges to the federal government is $45. Contractor gets $20, $25/h to the company for costs of labor and profit.
So your federal employee is costing the gov about $40/h in true costs of labor, while the contractor is $45/h for the same position. Pension contributions have been adjusted over the years where a federal pension is no longer what it was.
Very neutered analysis, but this is what I'm talking about.
Labor rates I've seen for even low-to-mid level contracting jobs are often around $65-72/hour (that the company is paid by the gov). I've seen some as high as $161/h. Again, the contracted employee... does not make those numbers. But that's what it costs the gov.
It's great if you own one of those companies. But it doesn't eliminate waste/fraud.
DOGE could eliminate the 95% of the FHWA. Only part that would need retaining is for construction projects that cross state lines.
CDOT received a grant for low carbon materials that was awarded, then froze. Money that could be better spent fixing roads.
Social Security checks to people that are 200 years old? Generations of families raised on the government welfare tit? Schools closing to house immigrants and so much more.
This crazy spending has gone on for way to long, we get a President (just 2 months in office) who tackles it head on and he's facing another call for impeachment.
That is an honest answer.
Those are the programs that should be cut.
If a private company can do whatever a particular government department is doing, better and more efficiently, that department should be closed.
Within reason and of course there as exceptions, but governments are not supposed to be lifetime job creators. Leave job creation to the private sector where merit and initiative are more highly valued and rewarded.
I get the sentiment, i more or less share it myself, but it's usually not that simple. It's fairly uncommon to have a department that straight up could be handed over the the private sector without it's own major problems. If it's one the government is going to pay for but contract, it's almost worse than the federal bloat. Still have the same problem, someone else's money going to a person I don't know or care about. Thus, fraud waste and abuse runs rampant. Now you have another party involved who's goal is to profit, which means you need to watch those things even closer. But the same problem happens, nobody cares about the cost and inefficiency so it balloons to stupid proportions. Why do you think so many companies want a government contract?
Now if you could straight up hand it over and just let a private company run it on its own, without government contracting, that could work. But for that to be the case it would have to be something that does take advantage of the beneficiary. Sometimes government is rightly going to have tasks that affect the common good and need to not have a profit at the center of it. The issue isn't that, it's that it grows out of control and nobody gives a damn about a budget.
The real problem with departments is that they need to have a clearly stated goal that is time restricted and specific so that it can evaluated at a time in the future and determined if it is still warranted. Lots of departments did serve a purpose at one time, but now everyone has forgotten what that purpose is or co finally changed it to keep the department alive and growing. That's the really big issue, that and nobody caring about budgets. If you could fix those two things you would be on the right path.
I get the sentiment, i more or less share it myself, but it's usually not that simple. It's fairly uncommon to have a department that straight up could be handed over the the private sector without it's own major problems. If it's one the government is going to pay for but contract, it's almost worse than the federal bloat. Still have the same problem, someone else's money going to a person I don't know or care about. Thus, fraud waste and abuse runs rampant. Now you have another party involved who's goal is to profit, which means you need to watch those things even closer. But the same problem happens, nobody cares about the cost and inefficiency so it balloons to stupid proportions. Why do you think so many companies want a government contract?
Now if you could straight up hand it over and just let a private company run it on its own, without government contracting, that could work. But for that to be the case it would have to be something that does take advantage of the beneficiary. Sometimes government is rightly going to have tasks that affect the common good and need to not have a profit at the center of it. The issue isn't that, it's that it grows out of control and nobody gives a damn about a budget.
The real problem with departments is that they need to have a clearly stated goal that is time restricted and specific so that it can evaluated at a time in the future and determined if it is still warranted. Lots of departments did serve a purpose at one time, but now everyone has forgotten what that purpose is or co finally changed it to keep the department alive and growing. That's the really big issue, that and nobody caring about budgets. If you could fix those two things you would be on the right path.
*doesn't take advantage of the beneficiary
BushMasterBoy
03-05-2025, 15:14
I'd be happy with a appropriate prescription for my infection from the VA. The military is just as bad. Lab test says I have an infection, but the military doctors refuse to to treat. Is it because once I am cured, they won't have a reason to see me anymore? And why is it all the airmen I served with all died in their 50's?
Social Security checks to people that are 200 years old? Generations of families raised on the government welfare tit? Schools closing to house immigrants and so much more.
This crazy spending has gone on for way to long, we get a President (just 2 months in office) who tackles it head on and he's facing another call for impeachment.
This is not true as well. The social security system software runs on COBOL and hasn't been updated in decades. If you do not enter a date in a data field it automatically populates it with the year 1875, that is how it appears that there are people in the system that are over 200 years old. This or some version of this seems to explain the date issues.
Regardless, the social security system automatically stops payments to any recipient older than 115 in case a death is not reported or entered correctly in to the system. There are no payments going to people that are 200 years old.
I'd be happy with a appropriate prescription for my infection from the VA. The military is just as bad. Lab test says I have an infection, but the military doctors refuse to to treat. Is it because once I am cured, they won't have a reason to see me anymore? And why is it all the airmen I served with all died in their 50's?
Part of that's true but part of it is just healthcare. Take millions of people and you're going to get good and bad experiences across the board. My wife got jerked around by private doctors like crazy after a TBI and basically didn't get any treatment for a year. Then of course we got the bills. An er visit charged $1500 for a tetanus shot, also got charged for the er, the check in, the hospital and the doctor all separately. This is in network mind you. Get referred to a neurologist, all of them are booked out 4 months.
It's kind of like my in laws in Canada. Ive got some with heart warming stories of how the health there did all this stuff for them and others who couldn't get a simple mri for 6 months and denied a heart surgery because 72 was too old (he got it in the US and lived another 20 years). So anecdotal experiences are dicey in health care.
As a complete side bar, if you guys want to know the root of the problem - and the more pragmatic solution for long term effect...
As founded, the American republic was missing a branch. You could say the founding fathers made a significant mistake not considering it... Whatever you want to call it - Restorative branch, or Janitorial; we needed a 4th branch that cleans the cobwebs out of the other three.
That isn't DOGE. DOGE is generating headlines and seeking wizz-bang effect, ran by a billionare and at the whim of the executive. We needed an entire branch, independent of the executive, judicial, and representative, that can clean/prune/organize regulation, EOs, legal precident, regulations, etc.
Every three sessions of the senate, US Code doubles in length. The reason bills often are 3,000 - 10,000 pages in length is due to this reason. You can fire people or assert you are making it more efficient, but until you solve the underlying cancer in the skeleton of the republic, the problem will never leave you.
Once again... I am a fiscal conservative. DOGE is a side show at a circus, primarily terminating prior political opposition and generating little more than headlines. You're still left with all the same holes in the boat, with or without it.
eddiememphis
03-06-2025, 09:20
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-cannot-meet-budget-target-cutting-medicare-medicaid-budget-rcna195042
Medicaid spending will be $8.2 Trillion over the next ten years.
Replacing the ticket taker at Rocky Mountain National Park with an automated system ain't gonna do shit.
eddiememphis
03-06-2025, 09:22
As a complete side bar, if you guys want to know the root of the problem - and the more pragmatic solution for long term effect...You're still left with all the same holes in the boat, with or without it.
The answer to government spending is to expand government?
The answer to government spending is to expand government?
Ironically because we have 249 years of bloat, you don't resolve it with a 1/2 trillionare holding a chainsaw. The root cause is a tangled mess that truly needs unwound.
I go back to the 1980s when the fed tried to study how many criminal laws they had. They gave up after two straight years, even they were unable to count. Our own government has no idea how many laws apply to you, and the code has quadroupled since they last tried. And while congress has tried a couple times to coalesce and organize the laws, it always fails. Honestly if the initiative is from any of the three branches of government (including the executive), it is doomed to fail.
There needs to be people working on it who are not under the direct influence of the other three branches, and are directly accountable to the people. You only get that with an independent branch, one that has no power to pass anything. Then you can begin to unwind the size of the government appropriately.
Legislative mandates, criminal and tax code, contradictory legal precidents, prior (and current) EOs, etc., all induce bloat that you don't fix with DOGE.
It would also be nice to live in a country where it was remotely possible for at least 1% of the citizenry to roughly understand the laws and regulations applicable to their lives. It's literally impossible for even an autistic savant with a photographic memory to grasp that today. Last time I checked USC was over a quarter million pages, CFR I forget (hundreds of k), millions of pages of prescendents, etc.
3beansalad
03-06-2025, 10:35
Depending on the tasks, federal contractors are not cheaper than federal employees - common misconception.
The contractor's wages are often utter garbage, I'll give people that. So yes, the contractor might make $20 an hour where their federal counterpart makes $32/h (equivalent) doing the exact same thing.
However, the labor rates the company charges to the federal government is $45. Contractor gets $20, $25/h to the company for costs of labor and profit.
So your federal employee is costing the gov about $40/h in true costs of labor, while the contractor is $45/h for the same position. Pension contributions have been adjusted over the years where a federal pension is no longer what it was.
Very neutered analysis, but this is what I'm talking about.
Labor rates I've seen for even low-to-mid level contracting jobs are often around $65-72/hour (that the company is paid by the gov). I've seen some as high as $161/h. Again, the contracted employee... does not make those numbers. But that's what it costs the gov.
It's great if you own one of those companies. But it doesn't eliminate waste/fraud.
This is a very interesting comment to me. As a 30 year civilian construction subcontractor, the cost of labor is dictated by the federal government. For a typical commercial project being bid on the Front Range, our field 'mechanics' are paid $28 per hour plus benefits and $15 per day for fuel. A federal contract on the Front Range can range from $43 to $51 per hour for the same scope. We still provide the same benefits/ fuel stipend to our employees.
Our overhead and profit is the same no matter what we bid/ build. In fact, we are required to provide the labor and material breakdowns to prove it we don't exceed Federal standards on overhead and profit. I have always made more profit on private jobs than federal. We can complete the work faster with far less bureaucracy. Quality is often impacted negatively by the gov't requirements. The federal standards are based on 50 year old requirements for our scope. Materials have come a long way since then, and can be installed faster with less waste than the COE allows.
We are also required to produce weekly documentation that proves we pay the required wage. I'm sure there have been contractors that don't, but I've never seen one. And the risk of not paying your employees per the mandated Davis-Bacon schedule is more than small contractors ($1-10M per year) could absorb and stay in business.
We don't "get" to charge the government more, they mandate it.
Just listened to Musk on the Joe Rogan podcast. From Musks own mouth they only find discrepancies and hand them to the head of the appropriate department and they decide how to handle it. Cancelled aid programs get a chance to show that they are a legit organization and that the aid is being used for what it is allowed for and they do not get cut off. Musk said that there aren't any people collecting social security that are listed as being over 115 or whatever but what the social security thing is are people that are using ssn's that are still active in the system in order to claim other money such as disability and other gov hand outs. He did talk about the office that handles all government payments and the issues around payments that have no classification assigned to them so there is no way to trace some of it as well as programs and payments that were set up at some point in the past by some admin or dept head that is no longer around and were forgotten about but still being paid out as in you forget about that gym membership that automatically withdraw from your account every moneth even though you haven't been there in six years.
This is a very interesting comment to me. As a 30 year civilian construction subcontractor, the cost of labor is dictated by the federal government. For a typical commercial project being bid on the Front Range, our field 'mechanics' are paid $28 per hour plus benefits and $15 per day for fuel. A federal contract on the Front Range can range from $43 to $51 per hour for the same scope. We still provide the same benefits/ fuel stipend to our employees.
Our overhead and profit is the same no matter what we bid/ build. In fact, we are required to provide the labor and material breakdowns to prove it we don't exceed Federal standards on overhead and profit. I have always made more profit on private jobs than federal. We can complete the work faster with far less bureaucracy. Quality is often impacted negatively by the gov't requirements. The federal standards are based on 50 year old requirements for our scope. Materials have come a long way since then, and can be installed faster with less waste than the COE allows.
We are also required to produce weekly documentation that proves we pay the required wage. I'm sure there have been contractors that don't, but I've never seen one. And the risk of not paying your employees per the mandated Davis-Bacon schedule is more than small contractors ($1-10M per year) could absorb and stay in business.
We don't "get" to charge the government more, they mandate it.
All true. For the SCA side, it's substantially the same. Even minimum benefits are spelled out. County-by-county, wage assessments and benefits. If a individual employee doesn't take health insurance, the company nevertheless still has to obtain the same benefit amount from the gov't. E.g. company is spending 0.25/h on benefits for employee A, is reimbursed the same 4.85/h (or whatever the counties grade is). I'm not saying fed contracting is lucrative business, I'm just illustrating that between federal employees and contractors, the loser is usually the employee, there is not a cost saving going private realized by the taxpayer.
(I'll clarify too - I am not a fed, nobody should infer self interest).
The salt mine handling retirement should be closed.
Zero reason in 2025 to have people riding around on bikes looking for paper. This should all be digitized
hollohas
03-11-2025, 20:10
This entire thing is like a detox. The US is a giant drug addict that voluntarily checked itself into rehab. We KNEW that our choice is going to suck. It's going to make us feel like shit for a bit. We're going to get majorly sick temporarily but once it's over we'll be so much healthier.
We elected Trump because the country is addicted to bullshit; waste, woke, inefficient and corrupt. We all knew he was going to come in and do some shit that was going to screw stuff up for a bit. He said exactly what he planned to do. The toxins and addiction must be purged. It's going to be a bumpy road and it's probably going to suck for a bit, but if we have the appetite to stick with it, we'll ultimately come out the other side so much healthier.
We frequently call the gov BS "cancer". We'll, just we started chemo. It's not going to be fun.
Unfortunately, it's pretty clear to me the American public has zero appetite for things that make them uncomfortable, temporary as they may be. And even if some things get better in the end, we ultimately won't break our addiction and the second we checkout of rehab, we're going to binge hard.
This entire thing is like a detox. The US is a giant drug addict that voluntarily checked itself into rehab. We KNEW that our choice is going to suck. It's going to make us feel like shit for a bit. We're going to get majorly sick temporarily but once it's over we'll be so much healthier.
We elected Trump because the country is addicted to bullshit; waste, woke, inefficient and corrupt. We all knew he was going to come in and do some shit that was going to screw stuff up for a bit. He said exactly what he planned to do. The toxins and addiction must be purged. It's going to be a bumpy road and it's probably going to suck for a bit, but if we have the appetite to stick with it, we'll ultimately come out the other side so much healthier.
We frequently call the gov BS "cancer". We'll, just we started chemo. It's not going to be fun.
Unfortunately, it's pretty clear to me the American public has zero appetite for things that make them uncomfortable, temporary as they may be. And even if some things get better in the end, we ultimately won't break our addiction and the second we checkout of rehab, we're going to binge hard.
Great analogy. Seems spot on to me!
hurley842002
03-11-2025, 23:04
I work in federal government. There's waste for sure, in my department not as much as you might think. But some, and it's definitely impossoble to fire trash employees. I support the idea of DOGE in general and don't mind the emails and whatever, but the way it's all been handled is pretty amateurish. For one, they don't even notify secretaries of the various federal departments that emails are coming, so nobody has any clue once they show up. Second, they're written very unprofessionally which makes it almost seem fake or spam. Lastly, they're just trying to purge a bunch of the government. In my anecdotal experience, you can lean it out but you need to be very specific about who you fire. My group could absorb a 20% reduction no problem if you cut the correct 3-4 people. Leave any of those and cut someone else and we will be buried. It's easy too, look at performance records and their internet surf history and boom you are good to go. Do it on seniority only and we will be absolutely crippled.
I also don't think making government employees the enemy and thst they're all lazy trash is the wrong way to go. I've worked in both sectors and some of my colleagues are the best abd brightest I've worked with.
Also a .gov employee, my opinion mirrors yours, I didn?t respond to any of the emails, not because I couldn?t come up with 5 bullet points, but because I thought it was dumb, and it didn?t come from a supervisor.
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all these Gov. employees crying about being laid off, well, welcome to the party. My wife has been laid off 4 times in her career in the mortgage business. She didn't go crying to a TV camera. Nope, started looking for and finding another job. If she can do it, these Gov employees can do it too and need to stop crying about it not being fair.
eddiememphis
03-12-2025, 12:12
Learn to code!
https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/476391-biden-tells-coal-miners-to-learn-to-code/
According to Dave Weigel of the Washington Post, Biden said, "Anybody who can go down 3,000 feet in a mine can sure as hell learn to program as well! Anybody who can throw coal into a furnace can learn how to program, for God's sake!"
cableguy11
03-12-2025, 12:35
All the probationary employees at my office were hired back with back pay. Of course they can still get RIF'd so no celebration yet unless an exemption is given.
Learn to code!
https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/476391-biden-tells-coal-miners-to-learn-to-code/
According to Dave Weigel of the Washington Post, Biden said, "Anybody who can go down 3,000 feet in a mine can sure as hell learn to program as well! Anybody who can throw coal into a furnace can learn how to program, for God's sake!"
Haha well those jobs might become fewer over time too as “no code” solutions and AI can write the programming language for you after you verbally describe the objects and workflow you’re building.
hurley842002
03-12-2025, 22:08
all these Gov. employees crying about being laid off, well, welcome to the party. My wife has been laid off 4 times in her career in the mortgage business. She didn't go crying to a TV camera. Nope, started looking for and finding another job. If she can do it, these Gov employees can do it too and need to stop crying about it not being fair.
On top of that they will have priority hiring for any other Federal job they qualify for, cry me a river should have taken the ?fork in the road? severance offer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This entire thing is like a detox. The US is a giant drug addict that voluntarily checked itself into rehab. We KNEW that our choice is going to suck. It's going to make us feel like shit for a bit. We're going to get majorly sick temporarily but once it's over we'll be so much healthier.
We elected Trump because the country is addicted to bullshit; waste, woke, inefficient and corrupt. We all knew he was going to come in and do some shit that was going to screw stuff up for a bit. He said exactly what he planned to do. The toxins and addiction must be purged. It's going to be a bumpy road and it's probably going to suck for a bit, but if we have the appetite to stick with it, we'll ultimately come out the other side so much healthier.
We frequently call the gov BS "cancer". We'll, just we started chemo. It's not going to be fun.
Unfortunately, it's pretty clear to me the American public has zero appetite for things that make them uncomfortable, temporary as they may be. And even if some things get better in the end, we ultimately won't break our addiction and the second we checkout of rehab, we're going to binge hard.
Can't really disagree with much here. We put our heads in the sand long enough that now if you want to fix anything it's going to be far more painful than it would have been 20 years ago. People want to keep the gravy train going and are just hoping they won't be the ones holding the bag later. It does kind of irritate me that some retirees are worried about their benefits being cut, when some of us younger folks are worried about not having ANY benefits when we get there. You can't really vote for all this spending and then be mad when some of it gets scaled back.
all these Gov. employees crying about being laid off, well, welcome to the party. My wife has been laid off 4 times in her career in the mortgage business. She didn't go crying to a TV camera. Nope, started looking for and finding another job. If she can do it, these Gov employees can do it too and need to stop crying about it not being fair.
Can't really disagree, and I've been telling people as much at work. This is the way things work in most sectors. If you aren't profitable you cut jobs. I'm prepared for the possibility I could lose my job, but I'm fortunate that in my profession I can pretty easily get a similar job pay wise, the benefits just won't be as good. It would be sad but not crippling. The bad part is I've gotten outstanding 6 out of 7 years but I'll bet anything I'd be on the chopping block before more tenured people who barely skate by. Just kind of how these things work.
All the probationary employees at my office were hired back with back pay. Of course they can still get RIF'd so no celebration yet unless an exemption is given.
And the cabinet could just take that list say your fired and that judge can't do squat for them.
Who could've guessed that "DOGE" led by the worlds biggest billionaire masquarading as "tech support" directing OPM via tweets to direct other independent agencies to terminate all recent hires (the lowest paid federal employees, btw) and arbitrarily assert they all had bad performance would result in a waste of resources, back pay, and them getting their jobs back.
Who could've guessed that "DOGE" led by the worlds biggest billionaire masquarading as "tech support" directing OPM via tweets to direct other independent agencies to terminate all recent hires (the lowest paid federal employees, btw) and arbitrarily assert they all had bad performance would result in a waste of resources, back pay, and them getting their jobs back.
"Don't hate the players, hate the game."
Just because these groups of workers filed lawsuits to get their jobs back and Judges listened to them, doesn't mean their jobs were productive or necessary.
Every day I thank God for the work that Pres Trump and yes, Mr Musk are doing to right this ship.
This bloated, wasteful, lost ship called the US Govt.
This isn't specifically directed at you BTW:
I do find it funny that alot of people who over the years have complained about how bloated, inept and inefficient all these various Govt programs and employees are, are now complaining loudly about Trump/Musk going in and cleaning house.
They are directly and immediately working on this issue and those same people bitch.
And how they are doing it is what private business has been doing for decades, like it or not, but now somehow it's upsetting or immoral because it involves Govt employees?
No, this should've been done decades ago.
Great-Kazoo
03-14-2025, 07:56
"Don't hate the players, hate the game."
Just because these groups of workers filed lawsuits to get their jobs back and Judges listened to them, doesn't mean their jobs were productive or necessary.
Every day I thank God for the work that Pres Trump and yes, Mr Musk are doing to right this ship.
This bloated, wasteful, lost ship called the US Govt.
This isn't specifically directed at you BTW:
I do find it funny that alot of people who over the years have complained about how bloated, inept and inefficient all these various Govt programs and employees are, are now complaining loudly about Trump/Musk going in and cleaning house.
They are directly and immediately working on this issue and those same people bitch.
And how they are doing it is what private business has been doing for decades, like it or not, but now somehow it's upsetting or immoral because it involves Govt employees?
No, this should've been done decades ago.
Exactly.
When the biggest employer in the Nation is the US Government..... That is a problem
There's cleaning house, and then there's the reality TV version where they push crap out of the way, show 15 degrees of a single room and posture for the camera, then depart, declaring victory, and never pay the crew.
Trump / Musk is the reality TV version of "cleaning house".
It was nice to see Trump doing Tesla infomercials in front of the White house, though. Clearly, their goals are our goals.
It's kind of like the whole Ron Paul thing. 620 introduced bills, only 1 ever passed in his entire career.
Ideals have their place, but if you're not pragmatic and don't actually accomplish any end result, your advertised intentions don't matter. At all.. I want ACTUAL reductions, not blowhards fucking it all up and ultimately costing even more. Hate the game? It's like someone fucking up monopoly when the rules are readily known, and being surprised when they lose. They knew it is monopoly to begin with, they have all the information available to get it right the first time, but that doesn't let them play a part in their reality TVish personatypes, so they do their blowhard version instead.
The way they went about this is dumber than a typical SNL skit. As far as inefficient government employees, they appear to be #1 and #2.
theGinsue
03-14-2025, 22:49
The way they went about this is dumber than a typical SNL skit. As far as inefficient government employees, they appear to be #1 and #2.
Okay then, how should they have gone about it then?
There's cleaning house, and then there's the reality TV version where they push crap out of the way, show 15 degrees of a single room and posture for the camera, then depart, declaring victory, and never pay the crew.
Trump / Musk is the reality TV version of "cleaning house".
It was nice to see Trump doing Tesla infomercials in front of the White house, though. Clearly, their goals are our goals.
It's kind of like the whole Ron Paul thing. 620 introduced bills, only 1 ever passed in his entire career.
Ideals have their place, but if you're not pragmatic and don't actually accomplish any end result, your advertised intentions don't matter. At all.. I want ACTUAL reductions, not blowhards fucking it all up and ultimately costing even more. Hate the game? It's like someone fucking up monopoly when the rules are readily known, and being surprised when they lose. They knew it is monopoly to begin with, they have all the information available to get it right the first time, but that doesn't let them play a part in their reality TVish personatypes, so they do their blowhard version instead.
The way they went about this is dumber than a typical SNL skit. As far as inefficient government employees, they appear to be #1 and #2.
It's definitely not some high flying professional job with a lot of thought and care, but finally this sort of thing has been ignored for so many decades that I'm just not aure you can go through with a scalpel. It would take forever. Doing it this abruptly will undoubtedly cause failures and issues, hopefully they can be fixed fairly quickly.
Any cuts are kind of political suicide, way mote people would rather blow the money, put your head in the sand, and act like the day of reckoning isn't coming (and hope your dead before it does). Part of the pomp and circumstance trump and musk are doing is to try and highlight how messed up it is to try and garner public support. A lot of what they're doing isn't having a big impact, but it is shining a light on the dark places we have chosen to ignore over many decades. It may set the table for future cuts and have more people be aware of how much waste there really is.
How can you do it? Well, they did it in the 1990's and did a reduction of force of 377,000 without screwing it up.
How great is it now? There's only documentation for about 30 billion in cuts.
Meanwhile, there is trillions in vote-buying revenue decreases through various plans and promises. https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-eliminate-tax-people-earning-less-150000-howard-lutnick-2044049
Math is non political. If you cut 30 billion in expenses and 500 billion in revenue, what do you have?
I won't waste any additional time though, the site is dwindling in users, losing any intellectual dialogue and more and more becoming a hostile fan club for the trumpster with the few people who are left, now engaging in personal attacks. (deleted)
So by all means, launch your fireworks and confetti and sing praises, roll out the red carpet and statutes and host your parade. I'll simply cram your words back in your face when the debt stands above 45 Trillion at the end of his term.
Great-Kazoo
03-15-2025, 23:21
Regardless of one's opinion of DOGE. Some of use remember 21% credit card interest and 13% VA loans, while earning $10 hr. We got by then, we'll get by now.
It's the pathetic WE DEMAND A LIVING WAGE tards who can't wrap their heads around the loss of, or potential loss of so many service they've taken for granted.
Like loan forgiveness when they realized D's were going to allow them to default on loans with ZERO repercussions. If one is counting on NOT having to repay a loa. i don't know about you but is seems "reckless" to me.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2025/03/10/student-loan-forgiveness-pslf-and-education-department-chaos-spark-panic/
. She wasn’t reckless—she followed the system, relied on the promises of income-driven repayment plans and student loan forgiveness, and planned for the long term Of course she wasn't. However she was counting on that biden loan forgivness to "get by"
hurley842002
03-16-2025, 23:50
Interesting, pretty sure I made a post after my #62 post, but it seems to have disappeared, nobody messaged me with a warning or anything, wonder where the post went.
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The federal government produces nothing but paperwork; effectively, they mostly award contracts to build stuff or provide services, while bleeding value from every dollar that passes through their coffers. Somehow, we managed to fund all of the essential services that are actually mandated by the Constitution without a federal income tax prior to 1910.Giant bureaucracies have sprung up, making their own laws (looking at you ATF, IRS, EPA, et.al) while the level of services has fallen, and the deficit has risen. There's no reason for the federal government to be the the largest employer in the country. I absolutely agree with the mission of DOGE, while recognizing that a more targeted approach to cuts would be more beneficial in the long term. Trump/Musk are in many cases simply acting in revenge, rather than analyzing what would be most effective and least damaging. Trump's actions are rarely based in morality or long term strategic thinking, his world view is almost entirely transactional. He's most concerned with how it benefits him and those he wants something from in the short term, and his ego often gets in the way of looking at the bigger picture.
Great-Kazoo
03-17-2025, 12:09
When the biggest employer in the Nation is the US Government..... That is a problem
Back in the late 80's we'd joke around saying. Eventually everyone will either work for the government, or be supported by it.
Trump/Musk are in many cases simply acting in revenge, rather than analyzing what would be most effective and least damaging. Trump's actions are rarely based in morality or long term strategic thinking, his world view is almost entirely transactional. He's most concerned with how it benefits him and those he wants something from in the short term, and his ego often gets in the way of looking at the bigger picture.
No, they are not.
Trump's ideas, including eliminating the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), establishing recriprocol tarrifs, buying Greenland, invading Panama, are groundbreaking. He and Elon are TRANSFORMING government.
-John
cableguy11
03-31-2025, 17:15
Looks like another round of "deferred resignations and VERA" for the federal government or at least some parts not sure if it was Government wide or not.
How can you do it? Well, they did it in the 1990's and did a reduction of force of 377,000 without screwing it up.
How great is it now? There's only documentation for about 30 billion in cuts.
Meanwhile, there is trillions in vote-buying revenue decreases through various plans and promises. https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-eliminate-tax-people-earning-less-150000-howard-lutnick-2044049
Math is non political. If you cut 30 billion in expenses and 500 billion in revenue, what do you have?
I won't waste any additional time though, the site is dwindling in users, losing any intellectual dialogue and more and more becoming a hostile fan club for the trumpster with the few people who are left, now engaging in personal attacks. (deleted)
So by all means, launch your fireworks and confetti and sing praises, roll out the red carpet and statutes and host your parade. I'll simply cram your words back in your face when the debt stands above 45 Trillion at the end of his term.
We can agree to disagree on your Math............ regardless, DOGE is one of the greatest things to happen to the US Govt, bar none.
BushMasterBoy
04-01-2025, 11:18
Also you have to look at Trumps family members. He imposes tariffs, his family places "puts" of stocks and they pay off the Trump Tower in Manhattan from the profits. And the Supreme Court approves because they a have an interest in this action too. "Puts" are futures where you say the stock price will fall. Watch the DJIA chart of the last few months...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2BZA6H7PVA
hollohas
04-01-2025, 11:40
In 2021 there were 270,000 non-citizens with social security numbers.
In 2024 there were 2.1M non-citizens with social security numbers.
SSA was automatically mailing numbers to anyone who submitted a Form 765 Application for Employment. No interview or ID needed. The Biden admin also changed the policy so that expired Employment documents would automatically extend for 540 days.
DOGE discovered that the system defualts within the SSA were set to give these people max benefits and minimum collection, including Medicaid. 1.3M of these non-citizens are receiving Medicaid benefits and paying little or nothing. 5M non-citizens are receiving some sort of benefits.
And they discovered that some of these SS# carrying non-citizens have indeed voted.
It's shocking to me anyone thinks DOGE isn't doing good work.
BushMasterBoy
04-01-2025, 14:33
^^^^ This!
In 2021 there were 270,000 non-citizens with social security numbers.
In 2024 there were 2.1M non-citizens with social security numbers.
SSA was automatically mailing numbers to anyone who submitted a Form 765 Application for Employment. No interview or ID needed. The Biden admin also changed the policy so that expired Employment documents would automatically extend for 540 days.
DOGE discovered that the system defualts within the SSA were set to give these people max benefits and minimum collection, including Medicaid. 1.3M of these non-citizens are receiving Medicaid benefits and paying little or nothing. 5M non-citizens are receiving some sort of benefits.
And they discovered that some of these SS# carrying non-citizens have indeed voted.
It's shocking to me anyone thinks DOGE isn't doing good work.
What media outlets are publishing this news?
hollohas
04-01-2025, 19:45
What media outlets are publishing this news?None of them of course. I first heard it on the radio.
Here's some info.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/watch-elon-musk-doge-official-expose-disturbing-social-security-fraud-involving-illegals
ruthabagah
04-03-2025, 10:13
In 2021 there were 270,000 non-citizens with social security numbers.
In 2024 there were 2.1M non-citizens with social security numbers.
SSA was automatically mailing numbers to anyone who submitted a Form 765 Application for Employment. No interview or ID needed. The Biden admin also changed the policy so that expired Employment documents would automatically extend for 540 days.
DOGE discovered that the system defualts within the SSA were set to give these people max benefits and minimum collection, including Medicaid. 1.3M of these non-citizens are receiving Medicaid benefits and paying little or nothing. 5M non-citizens are receiving some sort of benefits.
And they discovered that some of these SS# carrying non-citizens have indeed voted.
It's shocking to me anyone thinks DOGE isn't doing good work.
Total bs. Everyone with a valid work visa gets a ssn, for tax purposes. These ssn are flagged in the system as ??non citizen?? and cannot collect benefits? It has been like that for at least 30 years. ??IF?? SSN were issued for non qualified immigrants, they would have the same flag.
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Total bs. Everyone with a valid work visa gets a ssn, for tax purposes. These ssn are flagged in the system as ??non citizen?? and cannot collect benefits? It has been like that for at least 30 years. ??IF?? SSN were issued for non qualified immigrants, they would have the same flag.
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Non citizens should not get a SSN with the same format as citizen to avoid confusion. Instead of 9 numbers, they should have 7 numbers and 2 letters.
ruthabagah
04-03-2025, 10:36
Non citizens should not get a SSN with the same format as citizen to avoid confusion. Instead of 9 numbers, they should have 7 numbers and 2 letters.
Don?t disagree with you? But the system is so antiquated it would probably not support it?
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