HVAC Denver Area - any rec's on installers and systems?

[Ramsker]

Well, my 30 year old AC system might finally be dying. Outside unit is a Ruud UAKA-048JAZ and furnace is a Rheem. Looks like I have a control board issue (outside unit runs seemingly fine, but indoor blower doesn't come on with it anymore either on Auto or On). Blower itself is fine--I have it running by wiring it to the power with a piggyback spade connector. I just manually cut the power a few times a day to give it a rest. Also is leaking some water on the floor, which might just be a clogged drain situation but I haven't dug into that yet.

Anyway . . . gonna have some folks come out and give me their opinion. But, at 30 years old, the smart thing to do is probably to just look to replace the system. I know that's what the HVAC folks will say and they're probably right. Not sure how much sense it would make to throw too many $$ at it only to maybe get limited time from it.

Any recommendations for HVAC installers based on your experiences (or if you are an owner/operator)? I'm in Highlands Ranch. Will plan to get opinions/bids from a few places and figure out what to do.

Also, any recommendations for manufacturers to lean towards and to stay away from? I hear a lot about "it's the install that matters most", but have also heard that some manufacturers are definitely better than others. Tend to hear that Trane, American Standard, Rheem/Ruud are good to go and to stay away from Goodman, Carrier and Lennox. But again, this is just based on talking with friends/neighbors and what I've read on some forums. I'm not looking to go on the cheap. I'd rather buy once, cry once as we'll be here for the rest of our lives most likely.

Appreciate any thoughts or recommendations!

[kidicarus13]

Rheem installed by Front Range Mechanical Services (Englewood) ~5 years ago. The owner came to my house and explained everything in detail and answered all of my questions. No high-pressure sales or unnecessary upselling. Happy with everything. Price was mid-range compared to two other bids, but owners' knowledge of product and HVAC sold me. No personal affiliation.

[Ramsker]

Rheem installed by Front Range Mechanical Services (Englewood) ~5 years ago. The owner came to my house and explained everything in detail and answered all of my questions. No high-pressure sales or unnecessary upselling. Happy with everything. Price was mid-range compared to two other bids, but owners' knowledge of product and HVAC sold me. No personal affiliation.

Thank you! Front Range Mechanical is actually on my list to connect with . . . apparently my mom works with them and she's been happy. I actually have a call out to them from Sat, so hoping to hear from them today. Might have to call them back.

[BladesNBarrels]

Front Range installed our new one just 10 plus years ago.
Last winter the blower had an electrical fault and started smoking.
My daughter was house-sitting and smelled the smoke, turned off the blower and called Front Range.
Immediate response, fast replacement of blower, and no charge since it was a couple of months within the 10-year warranty.
They service it once a year.
Front Range has my business.

[Ramsker]

Front Range Mechanical will be out Wed sometime to take a look. Already had one guy swing by today and confirmed that it's my control board. He's gonna poke around and see if the board is available and how much it costs to see if I want to temporarily fix it. He did say I was extremely lucky to get 30 years out of what I had and said he'd really recommend replacing the AC & furnace--if not now then soon. So we'll see what he says and what Front Range says and maybe get another set of bids or two . . . then will make some decisions.

Also, I did have a clogged drain line. I was kinda afraid to poke around where the coil is located to investigate, but this first guy was super cool and showed me how that worked. I thought the panel was more complex than it really was. But you can remove it without disturbing where the lines go in. So I got that open and we saw that it was full of water. After he left, I plugged the coil catch pan drain with my finger and used my compressor to hit the extension on the line and blew a huge glob of gunk out the end of the drain. Drains great now.

[Wolfshoon]

30 years is a miracle! Consider yourself blessed. Time to replace. Figure 8-12K $ for both furnace and AC installed by reputable company

Beware the upsale of “upgrading” to a 2 stage system for both furnace or AC. All the two stage system does is run at a slower fan and compressor speeds for about 20 minutes then switches to hi speed to finally cool off or heat up the house. Waste of $$$ and added complexity that isn’t justified, wish I had just gotten a single stage. Get a super high efficiency single stage system for both AC and furnace.

3 years ago Got quotes from Applewood and ARS (home depot reference) for 16K and 18k (minus Home depot “discount” 10% for 16.2 k) for cheap low end 80% furnace and low end 14seer AC. Very disappointing, high end quote for crap hardware. Quote guys came in company vehicles to house with semi-hi pressure sales.

Wound up getting a 96% efficient furnace and 16 SEER 3.5 ton compressor and install kit from Goodman for 5k delivered and had local guy install for 2.5K. AC compressor did lose a start capacitor within 6 months, but that was a $30 repair. System has run good with no issues outside of the start capacitor. Keep in mind that converting to a high efficiency condensing furnace will require running new intake/exhaust ABS/PVC piping of at least 3 inches diameter.

Winter natural gas consumption went down by about 40% with the 96percent furnace, very welcome for the pocketbook with all the price increases in gas recently. Electrical bill in summer was equal to previous years bills, but house was kept cooler.

Again, focus on getting a 96-98 percent efficient single stage furnace and at least a 16 seer or higher AC condenser unit. I also got Colorado State rebates on my taxes, check to see if they still have those for extra savings.

[Ramsker]

30 years is a miracle! Consider yourself blessed. Time to replace. Figure 8-12K $ for both furnace and AC installed by reputable company

Beware the upsale of “upgrading” to a 2 stage system for both furnace or AC. All the two stage system does is run at a slower fan and compressor speeds for about 20 minutes then switches to hi speed to finally cool off or heat up the house. Waste of $$$ and added complexity that isn’t justified, wish I had just gotten a single stage. Get a super high efficiency single stage system for both AC and furnace.

3 years ago Got quotes from Applewood and ARS (home depot reference) for 16K and 18k (minus Home depot “discount” 10% for 16.2 k) for cheap low end 80% furnace and low end 14seer AC. Very disappointing, high end quote for crap hardware. Quote guys came in company vehicles to house with semi-hi pressure sales.

Wound up getting a 96% efficient furnace and 16 SEER 3.5 ton compressor and install kit from Goodman for 5k delivered and had local guy install for 2.5K. AC compressor did lose a start capacitor within 6 months, but that was a $30 repair. System has run good with no issues outside of the start capacitor. Keep in mind that converting to a high efficiency condensing furnace will require running new intake/exhaust ABS/PVC piping of at least 3 inches diameter.

Winter natural gas consumption went down by about 40% with the 96percent furnace, very welcome for the pocketbook with all the price increases in gas recently. Electrical bill in summer was equal to previous years bills, but house was kept cooler.

Again, focus on getting a 96-98 percent efficient single stage furnace and at least a 16 seer or higher AC condenser unit. I also got Colorado State rebates on my taxes, check to see if they still have those for extra savings.

Yeah, I'm kinda thinking the smart thing to do would be replace before something else goes wrong and my odds of that happening are almost certainly increasing with each added month. But I've also managed to outsmart myself before. lol. I do want to know if it's repairable and what cost would be, but guessing it's at least $1k (if lucky) and that $1k is probably better spent towards new rather than patch old and roll the dice.

Guy that came out today did mention that the high efficiency units would require different exhaust setup. Fortunately, the utility room is in a corner of the basement and has what should be pretty easy access to the exterior. So that part shouldn't be a huge issue for an install. Appreciate the advice on the single stage vs dual stage.

[Eric P]

Are heat pumps available in Denver metro?

[Ramsker]

Are heat pumps available in Denver metro?

They are. I had always heard that they weren't very good where it gets cold . . . which we do get. The HVAC guy that came out actually said that he has heat pumps on his house. He only uses them for cooling and he has a gas furnace for heat.

I guess there are some big rebates for heat pumps from Excel. But if we replace, I would be leaning much towards just standard AC and not a heat pump just because I am more familiar/comfortable with the regular style.

[electronman1729]

Tobin Heating and Air did my HVAC in 2020, really reasonably priced.

[Ramsker]

Tobin Heating and Air did my HVAC in 2020, really reasonably priced.

Called Tobin today and they'll be out to take a look and provide some estimates. Probably will look to get at least one more company out . . . maybe two.

[Ramsker]

Quick update:

Had several companies out to bid the replacement AC & furnace. Ended up going with a Trane system . . . heat pump and 80% efficiency furnace from 5280 Heating & Air. Went back and forth and around and around on whether to go heat pump or standard AC. Originally I was VERY against heat pumps. Based on feedback from several sources and the fact that there are huge rebates right now for heat pump, I went with that option. It basically came out the same cost (actually a bit less) than standard AC. I can tune it however I want to use more or less heat pump for heat when it gets cold. And I at least have some backup heat if an ignitor or something goes bad on the furnace. Worst case scenario, I just run it like standard system in summer/winter. 5280 does a 10 year labor warranty to match with Trane 10 year parts warranty. Pretty much everyone else I spoke with was 2 year parts warranty.

Got installed the other day. New system seems nice so far. Everything is variable speed from the condenser unit to the furnace. Old system was just on or off and was loud. New one runs as hard as needed. It runs more often but at much lower speeds most of the time. You hardly notice it's running. Much more consistent comfort level. The compressor on the outside unit is massive. Went 80% on the furnace for a few reasons. They tend to last longer and require less maintenance (from everything I found or was told). And, in theory, the heat pump will cover things down to 20 - 30 degrees, so you're trying to squeeze a much smaller sample size for efficiency.

[Wolfshoon]

So you went with 5280? Would you use em again? How much if you don’t mind sharing. Since you stuck with a 80% furnace you could use the old gas flume exhaust vent instead of running new pvc piping, right? What was the SEER rating on the heat pump?

[gnihcraes]

Cg heating, Chris Gonzales
Has done 3 systems for me, great guy and work. Price is average.

[Ramsker]

So you went with 5280? Would you use em again? How much if you don’t mind sharing. Since you stuck with a 80% furnace you could use the old gas flume exhaust vent instead of running new pvc piping, right? What was the SEER rating on the heat pump?

Yeah, went with 5280 in the end. I really liked their 10 year labor warranty. Everyone else basically had 2 year. That's correct that with the 80% furnace, they only had to tie into the existing gas flume. Elkhorn was right there in the running, since they also offered Trane and a cash discount. They also only had 2 year labor warranty. The Trane heat pump we went with is 18 SEER / 4 ton. They gave a few bids, with one being a 20 SEER, but didn't think we needed to go that route for the added cost. The furnace is also Trane and has a variable speed ECM.

I had several other companies come out and bid. I was surprised that nobody bid Rheem/Ruud. Got a lot of Goodman, Amana and Lennox. I wasn't interested in any of those for different reasons. I have concerns about Goodman & Amana quality. I heard a lot of "installation is the most important part" but research seemed to find far more negative input on Goodman and Amana as being lower quality/tier compared to Trane. Lennox I had a lot of concerns over prior lawsuits and have heard their parts availability, warranty process and customer service are not great. Front Range bid Bosch heat pump and Amana furnace. I like our Bosch dishwasher and fridge, but I don't know much about their AC.

"Final" cost to us should be about $15,500 after all is said and done with all the rebates. Installer took the $6,100 Xcel rebate and $500 Colorado heat pump rebate directly off the cost. We should be able to get $2k back from the feds on next year's tax return. Ryan (one of the owners) was really helpful and actively involved in the install and did the final checks/certification. There was another main installer who seemed really good and at least one other guy who helped. Install seemed to go really well and looks high quality to me. I'd use them again and recommend them for consideration.

Most of the bids were in a pretty consistent range with brand being the variance. I got one insane bid where the guy said I needed all sorts of duct work in the utility room and wanted $28k. Screw that on multiple levels. I might have been able to chase more bids and/or grind out a slightly better price by continuing the back and forth. I was just kind of over dragging things out. I researched a ton and talked with a lot of people (online and off) to try and make a good decision. Add to that . . . my brother passed away over last weekend, so been dealing with that. Just made the best decision I thought I could make at the time. We should hopefully be set for cooling and heat for a long time.