Shakey Gaza Cease-Fire

[flogger]

It sounds like Hamas is going to poke the Bear.

One of the 3 Murdered hostage bodies returned this week has DNA that doesn't match any of the missing hostages, and they said they are not sure where some of the bodies are! Going through the city and executing anyone, street justice style, who may have assisted the IDF. Wasn't there something about Hamas disarmament in the treaty!

I would not trust these people one bit.

[theGinsue]

I honestly think Hamas felt they were against the ropes with no alternatives, so they accepted the "ceasefire" and hostage return. Plus, the terms required Israel to completely withdraw from Gaza.

Hamas will absolutely not disarm. Hamas is simply buying time to re-organize, re-establish strongholds in places they'd lost, set traps and conscript more youth to build back some of the numbers they've lost. They'll continue to attack against Israel, causing Israel to go back in and do it all over again.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

This "Peace Deal" will last only as long as it takes Hamas to feel they're in a strong position again.

[Mick-Boy]

Regarding the Executions, they might be related to this article from June...

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-05/ty-article/israel-arming-isis-affiliated-anti-hamas-gaza-militia-ex-defense-chief-claims/00000197-3f88-d079-ab97-7fcdd7120000

Israel is providing weapons to a Jihadist group in the Gaza Strip affiliated with ISIS, Opposition lawmaker and former Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman said Thursday.

Responding to the allegations, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office said that "Israel is working to defeat Hamas in various ways, on the recommendation of all heads of the security establishment."

In an interview with Kan Bet public radio, Lieberman said that, similar to how Netanyahu propped up Hamas as a counterweight to the PA, he is now helping establish a new armed force as a counterweight to Hamas.

Last week, two sources told Haaretz that a new militia had recently begun operating in the southern Gaza Strip, saying it is linked to a man identifying himself as Yasser Abu Shabab.

Videos circulating on social media in recent days appear to support the claim, showing armed Palestinians in Gaza wearing standard military gear, including vests, helmets and insignia such as the Palestinian flag and a patch labeled "Anti-Terror Service" in both English and Arabic.

Abu Shabab, a member of a large Bedouin family in the southern Gaza city of Rafah, is known as a powerful and well-connected figure in the Gaza Strip. According to sources who spoke with Haaretz, he previously served prison sentences in Hamas-run jails for criminal offenses.

At the end of last year, amid a surge in looting of humanitarian aid in southern Gaza, Abu Shabab and his men were widely accused of being behind the theft.

In a November 2024 phone interview with The Washington Post, Abu Shabab did not fully deny the allegations, saying that his group avoided taking food, tents or supplies intended for children.

"The Hamasha clan are in essence lawless criminals who in recent years wanted to give themselves an ideological angle or spin, so they became Salafi [jihadists] and began identifying with ISIS," the lawmaker said.

Israel is providing this clan with light weapons and assault rifles, Lieberman alleged, adding that, "Ultimately, these weapons will be turned against us."

It seems like everyone should have known the hostage bodies were going to be a problem Some of them are likely not even in areas that Hamas controls at this point. Or buried under rubble from two years of bombing. Hopefully they thought this through making promises they can't keep.

Honestly, I'm not at all convinced either side wants a lasting cease fire right now. The Israeli government has been pretty open about their support for "Greater Israel". You can seize your neighbor's land if you're at peace...

[Clint45]

Hamas be all like, "We da po-lice now! Po-lice need us sum weapons!"

But police generally do not carry grenades, lol.

[FoxtArt]

Mostly unrelated to this, but it's a bit absurd to me the risks we take as a society for the recovery of a corpse.

Example: Diver drowns during a very risky deep water caving expedition. Other divers work out a very complicated technical rescue of his corpse. Another diver drowns in the process, but they get both bodies back. Is it worth it?

If members of the IDF ultimately die over arguments here re: corpses, will that make the families of the corpses feel better? Or worse? I really don't know. I get that they want their child home in any condition. But would they still really want that at the cost of further life?

Once I'm dead, throw ashes into the garden, or anywhere, I'm dead. I know there are groups that believe a body needs to be complete and will someday come alive again (??) but I'd argue they either haven't read, or understand their own religious texts. I can't imagine the feeling knowing other parents lost their children so that I could receive a predeceased relative's body myself, ripping an irreplaceable wound in several others for my own "closure".

ETA:
FTR, I get it, Hamas sucks, these were hostages, IDF should get the bodies back, and Hamas should get wiped off the map. I don't disagree with that. I'm just wondering more broadly, why do we kill our neighbors (not talking Hamas) to get a family member's body back from really dangerous shit.

[Eric P]

Makes no sense to restart fighting over dead rotting sack of flesh.

[theGinsue]

Honest question for the last 2 posters: Would you still be posing this question if the body was that of a U.S. Servicemember who died in combat?

Does the situation around the persons death change the parameters enough to negate the question for those circumstances?

[FoxtArt]

Honest question for the last 2 posters: Would you still be posing this question if the body was that of a U.S. Servicemember who died in combat?

Does the situation around the persons death change the parameters enough to negate the question for those circumstances?

Absolutely the question stands and is asked just for that situation. Would a US service person's parent's really want more parents to lose their children as well for no other purpose than to retrieve a body?

And we do leave people behind, frequently. Living and dead, in all prior wars. "No man left behind" is marketing, not an actual standard. It's simply a social standard that places a lot of value on a "body", so much so that we seem to value a corpse more than life, so long as it the additional lsn't another one of our own children, completely acceptable if it's three of my neighbor's kids. "Closure" is that important. It's quite strange... Here we are, the oddball, saying isn't someone's living life more valuable than a dead corpse?

[Eric P]

Honest question for the last 2 posters: Would you still be posing this question if the body was that of a U.S. Servicemember who died in combat?

Does the situation around the persons death change the parameters enough to negate the question for those circumstances?

Does not change 1 bit. Zero sense to risk or cost life to rescue a dead sack of rotting flesh, even if it was in my family. I see zero value in dead bodies.

[Oscar77]

Absolutely the question stands and is asked just for that situation. Would a US service person's parent's really want more parents to lose their children as well for no other purpose than to retrieve a body?

And we do leave people behind, frequently. Living and dead, in all prior wars. "No man left behind" is marketing, not an actual standard. It's simply a social standard that places a lot of value on a "body", so much so that we seem to value a corpse more than life, so long as it the additional lsn't another one of our own children, completely acceptable if it's three of my neighbor's kids. "Closure" is that important. It's quite strange... Here we are, the oddball, saying isn't someone's living life more valuable than a dead corpse?

Normally I have and will simply disagree with you, but in this case it's clear you have no sense of morality nor have ever been in a true life and death situation.
Because if you had, it would be impossible for you to pose these questions.
In 20+ years of military service, in multiple combat zones, I can tell you the concept of "No man left behind" isnt marketing nor a standard, its a deeply held moral held by those involved.
It has reason and purpose that you clearly cant understand.
Which is fine.
So instead, you're just going to have to trust that is important to the Israelis and those involved families to get those bodies back.
And even though you cant comprehend why, it's part of the negotiations.
Because after all only Savages purposely keep and use dead hostages as bargaining chips.
Thats what you might focus on instead.

[Bailey Guns]

I'm not sure the example of military members is the same.

We move heaven and earth to rescue our service members when they're in a jam and I'm OK with that. It's because we value life. Military members know that. It builds trust in the 'system' (as misguided as trusting the system may be). And I'm a bliever that makes them willing to put themselves in harm's way for reasons they may not understand.

I think a lot of the same reasons apply to retrieving our fallen. It makes it a little easier going into dangerous situations knowing your buddies, your unit and your country will do what they can to bring you home should you fall. No one wants to see the bodies of their friends, loved ones, American miltary members, etc...dead and dragged thru a town in a faraway land with the locals defiling them along the way.

It may not make sense in practical terms, but it does in human terms. I think it says a lot about who we are as a country that we do these things and that our military members willing accept these missions. Hell...we still have people trying to find/retrieve POWs and missing from Viet Nam.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Moving heaven and hell to retrieve lost comrades sends 2 messages. The first one, to your own forces, says we will not abandon you. This is why so many service members were upset by the way the Obama administration sat on its keisters and watched the Benghazi compound for 7 hours as they fought for their lives. You may not be able to get them but you can try. There's a scene in "A Bridge Too Far" that captures exactly this as the Brits look at the delays in moving their boats up the road so they can cross the river to rescue their comrades; in typical understated British fashion, one officer states "well that's it, there's nothing more we can do," to which the commander of the 101st AD says, "but try. You can do that, can't you?"

The second message sent is to your adversaries, we will not stop, we will not relent. The idea there is to tell the adversary they can not, will not wear you down. If they want an end, they need to negotiate in good faith. The latter condition will never happen with Hamas but we (Western nations) feel compelled to give them a chance to.

[eddiememphis]

Mostly unrelated to this, but it's a bit absurd to me the risks we take as a society for the recovery of a corpse.

Rituals for the dead aside, my question is, what risks are your talking about?

The diving situation you cited is comprised of volunteers or maybe local search and rescue. I don't see that as having any cost to society as a whole.

Military rescues may have some monetary cost and of course there is danger to those involved, but the cost is no higher than any other operation that involves getting shot.

Diplomatic attempt at retrieving bodies really has no societal costs either, other than possibly looking weak in the eyes of some observers.

So I don't really see any risks involved for "society". I am curious to see what risks you are thinking of.

[FoxtArt]

Normally I have and will simply disagree with you, but in this case it's clear you have no sense of morality nor have ever been in a true life and death situation.
Because if you had, it would be impossible for you to pose these questions.
In 20+ years of military service, in multiple combat zones, I can tell you the concept of "No man left behind" isnt marketing nor a standard, its a deeply held moral held by those involved.
It has reason and purpose that you clearly cant understand.
Which is fine.
So instead, you're just going to have to trust that is important to the Israelis and those involved families to get those bodies back.
And even though you cant comprehend why, it's part of the negotiations.
Because after all only Savages purposely keep and use dead hostages as bargaining chips.
Thats what you might focus on instead.

With respect, you have a narrow scenario in your mind in which the motto applies. It does not universally apply.
You also don't know who I am, or most anyone else in this forum.

As it was just said, we still have people in Vietnam finding American servicepeople. Didn't they get left behind?

There are also entire deployments of men that are left behind. Remember Bataan in the Philippines? Are we so naive as to think it can't happen again in a real global conflict? If a soldier's deployment is deemed too risky to support and there are not resources to evacuate, they are left behind. Our country makes tactical decisions like any other.

Fall off a landing ship, do they turn around to pick you up? No, it would screw up the invasion. Hopefully, someone down the line picks you up. Maybe they don't.

POW in Vietnam, did we come and get them when we were evacuating the country in '73? No, they were left behind. Some were freed shortly after, not all.

Any battle where we were force-overwhelmed, and wounded men screaming not to be left behind, did we stop the retreat and come and get them all?

Don't come back from deep recon, do they plan a whole invasion to get you back? No.



That doesn't mean we're Soviets and over here shooting our soldiers in the back, we obviously value life more. But "No man left behind" is literally untrue. Again, it's a slogan.

What's more accurate is we do try to get people back, or bodies back, when it makes sense.

Sorry I offended you by not parroting patriotic slogans. Perhaps I have family that was left behind.

As to the other responses, BG's makes a lot of sense... Higher Morale can save lives.

And again, I'm not referring to the cost of life to e.g. Hamas. As far as that is concerned, I do find it unlikely that even if they tried to fully comply with the return of bodies (which I have my doubts), would all the bodies even be available and known with as much of a shit-show as that place has turned into. Previously we rescued hostages that were in random homes mixed with the population, and IDF has even accidentally killed hostages that escaped. With all the casualties among the board, it would not be surprising if bodies are lost, can't be returned, or even 1 or 2 misidentified. One of the hostages that we previously rescued would have been tiny pieces of meat from an IDF munition if it wasn't a dud. I wouldn't be surprised if there are at least a couple more hostages that were irrecoverably destroyed by IDF itself (unintentionally).

That said, I hold no fuzzies towards Hamas, or to a peace with them. It's just dumb to create conditions that likely are impossible and return to a washing machine over the inane. If you're going to do a peace, do a workable peace. Otherwise kick ass and take names.

[BushMasterBoy]

They just arrested a Hamas member in Louisiana. The terrorist members are here in the US. Hell, they have pics!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cks91WsTKcU

[eddiememphis]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/israel-says-hamas-violated-ceasefire-multiple-attacks-leading-idf-response

That didn't last long...

The Israeli military conducted strikes against Hamas in Gaza after accusing the terrorist organization of repeatedly violating its ceasefire agreement on Sunday. "Earlier today, terrorists fired an anti-tank missile and gunfire toward IDF troops operating to dismantle terrorist infrastructure in the Rafah area, in southern Gaza, in accordance with the ceasefire agreement," the IDF said in a statement.

[kidicarus13]

Blame Trump! He has to somehow be involved.

[Doc45]

Ever since Abraham sent Hagar and Ishmael out from his home there has been conflict in the region. There have been times when Jews, Christians and Muslims lived in relative peace with thriving communities in all of what we know today as the various countries but for the most part not. The conflict will not end now, nor in any our lifetimes.