Why All The Fuss?

[HoneyBadger]

Can somebody help me understand why everyone is losing their minds over us blowing up drug boats in international waters?

If you want to make an argument that they deserve a fair trial, I don't disagree.

If you want to make an argument that the Coast Guard is primarily responsible for drug interdiction, I don't disagree.

If you want to make an argument that people in government should be held responsible for giving orders to murder innocent people, I don't disagree.

But why now? Our government has been killing people without trials for decades - sometimes under the guise of war, but oftentimes not. I'm not justifying it, I'm just questioning why OH MY GOSH THIS IS A HUGE DEAL all of a sudden.

For context, lets look at the Obama Administration?s reliance on killing at a distance and toleration of avoidable civilian casualties. The Bureau of Investigative Journalism reported on January 17, 2017 that President Obama authorized 563 strikes with estimated civilian deaths ranging from 384 to 807. Obama?s first strike was a disaster in Yemen when they misidentified a target and hit a tribe with cluster munitions killing 55 people of whom 21 were children with 10 of them under five. Twelve of the victims were women with five of them pregnant. If the House and Senate Armed Services Committees want to investigate the death of two drug cartel members off Venezuela maybe they could begin with a roll-call of the innocent civilians, including women and children, killed by President Obama?s orders and a review of the rules of engagement the Obama Administration followed.

I'm floored by the hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance on display. It was totally okay and even well-supported by the press to delete thousands of people without fair trials from drones overhead in the Middle East for two decades, but suddenly it's not okay anymore? What's the reason people are suddenly upset about something we've been doing for years and years? Joe Biden even argued on camera in 1989 that the president wasn't doing enough and he even advocated for sending the military into foreign lands to stop the source of the drugs:

"The trouble is that the president's proposals are not big enough to deal with the problem. We think we should do more to stem the flow of drugs across our borders, and we think we should go one step further: Let's go after the drug lords where they live with an international strike force. There must be no safe haven for these narco-terrorists and they must know it." -Joe Biden in 1989 as a rebuttal to the president's proposal to deal with the national drug problem.

So why now?

We all know why.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[clodhopper]

Orange man bad?

[Rooskibar03]

As far as the left is concerned, it's only acceptable to kill babies in the womb. Anyone else is off limits.

[FoxtArt]

It's pretty rare for the gov to come back and direct the killing of all survivors after all risks have been resolved.

Service members are often stationed in Leavenworth anytime they are caught engaging in similar activities in the Middle East. It's not something that has ever been formally accepted. Has it happened over there, and people are free today? Absolutely.

It's likely a challenge to find a drone strike, though, where they were ordered to fly back and blow up any wounded trying to crawl away, to literally "leave no survivors" because f*** them.

Is the level of attention justified? Who knows. But I do agree they need to sort out where that order came from. If it's Pete, his ass needs to be replaced. If a soldier got in trouble for this in the Middle East, then anyone directing it needs to be in the same trouble in this circumstance.

[Oscar77]

It's pretty rare for the gov to come back and direct the killing of all survivors after all risks have been resolved.

Service members are often stationed in Leavenworth anytime they are caught engaging in similar activities in the Middle East. It's not something that has ever been formally accepted. Has it happened over there, and people are free today? Absolutely.

It's likely a challenge to find a drone strike, though, where they were ordered to fly back and blow up any wounded trying to crawl away, to literally "leave no survivors" because f*** them.

Is the level of attention justified? Who knows. But I do agree they need to sort out where that order came from. If it's Pete, his ass needs to be replaced. If a soldier got in trouble for this in the Middle East, then anyone directing it needs to be in the same trouble in this circumstance.

Your TDS is showing again.
I do like how you accept news reports as 100% verified truth immediately when they involve some "wrong doing" by Pres Trump and in this case Secretary Hegseth.
If only you did the same when it comes to the Socialists.

Can you name any SM who was charged with Murder or what ever charge you want to use while serving in the Middle East?
For a similar event?

Also you and Secretary Hegseth aren't friends.
He isn't "Pete" and I dont call President Biden, "Joe."

[TEAMRICO]

BOMB THE SHIT OUT THEM!

[3beansalad]

Reportedly an hour between the two strikes, and the boat still floating. And an attorney in the room to confirm legality of a second missile.


This is nothing but a hoax being carried out by Dems to play partisan politics.

It's amazing we've been fighting the war on drugs for decades, but Dems are upset that we're actually doing combat missions now.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

[rondog]

99760

[Bailey Guns]

There was definitely a second-strike order given. No question. But it wasn't given by Hegseth. It was given by the admiral in charge of USSOCOM.

It's going to take a lot of convincing for me to believe a United States admiral is going to give that order simply to smoke a couple of drug-runners. I heard the decision was made because otherwise the boat would be a danger to other vessels.

It's all bullshit. The left smells blood, sees a convenient opening, and pounces. As usual, they are on the wrong side. They're always on the wrong side. And the left has zero credibility in anything so fuck 'em all. The republicans are being their usual chickenshit selves and don't know whether to shit or go blind.

It's all a fucking clown show. They're all, politicians on both sides, gonna piss and moan about this for weeks. Meanwhile, how much further in debt are they going to put the country?

[eddiememphis]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/adm-mitch-bradley-center-2nd-attack-alleged-drug/story?id=128080182

The source said the pair of survivors were later killed in a second strike because they were deemed to “still be in the fight” because they were in communications with other vessels nearby and were gathering some of the cargo of drugs the boat had been carrying.


As to why the fuss? These are the non-TDS objections I have seen.

1-Use of military force without congressional authorization
2- Expansion of “war on drugs” into military operations
3- Rules-of-engagement concerns
4- Setting precedent for other nations
5- Human rights
6- Lackof transparancy
7- Possible War Crimes violations

The real reason for all the fuss is because pundits operate in a sphere of outrage and the more noise they make, the more views they get.

[BPTactical]

Anything to bring negative press to this administration

[Clint45]

There are exceptions to certain rules, like "clear and present danger" and fentanyl technically being a chemical WMD. Also, I was advised that Venezuela has been engaged in covert operations with Cuban intelligence against the United States for the past 5 years.

[battlemidget]

Why do we need a room full of flag officers and staff to put missiles in small boats?

[3beansalad]

Why do we need a room full of flag officers and staff to put missiles in small boats?To counter the BS we're being told by certain politicians?

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

[.455_Hunter]

I have no concern with double tapping narco distribution boats. The occupants are not uniformed members of an advisarial military, they are simple terrorists.

[bellavite1]

Fuck them.

Send another missile where they sank, just for good measure.

[kidicarus13]

The occupants are not uniformed members of an advisarial military, they are simple terrorists.

Waiting for a liberal forum member to post, "According to whose definition?" [emoji849]

[XJ]

https://i.imgflip.com/1e6ex6.jpg

[exxonv]

99767

[rondog]

Anything to bring negative press to this administration

WINNER!!!

[rondog]

As far as those two "survivors" - they were in a boat loaded up with God-only-knows what kinds of drugs and other dangerous chemicals, which was just blown to shit by a Hellfire missile. Can't even imagine what kind of injuries and burns they suffered, and what kind of chemicals they were covered with and inhaled. They may have been alive, but I bet they were suffering immensely. The second strike was an act of mercy by ending their suffering. Just my opinion, and worth what you paid for it.

[BushMasterBoy]

Lots of drugs~

https://www.ussf-cfc.spaceforce.mil/News/Multimedia/Photos/igphoto/2002740166

[Walker2970]

with all these drugs in the water the next sharknado is gonna be LITTTTTTTT

[FoxtArt]

with all these drugs in the water the next sharknado is gonna be LITTTTTTTT

Hey we don't know that yet....

It could be Cocain Bear/Shark II.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I am waiting for more information. I figured any of the first blush stuff coming from ABC et al was simply slanted to try to make Hegseth and Trump look bad. Subsequent information sounds like it was a normal mission restrike because the objective -- interdicting the drug transport -- hadn't been accomplished and the target was still active. This is well within the normal rules of engagement; I can recall targeting cells puzzling after battle damage information to determine whether restrikes were necessary on other missions. This is not at all the same thing as strafing downed aircrew, more like an A-10 or F-16 or F/A-18 hitting a tank or IADS but then seeing the target was still active so going back in again.

[battlemidget]

Did you know there's an estimated >3 million lost ships at sea since the beginning of time?

[kidicarus13]

You sank my battleship!

[HoneyBadger]

Here's another fun fact for you:

There are more satellites in the ocean than there are submarines in space.

[BREATHER]

If there wasn't such a demand for drugs there wouldn't be a market. There was an article in one t=of the Denver rags 15-16 years ago about the cops in Aspen to not be so aggressive with cocaine issues. money talks and shit walks

[Hoser]

We should pass a law that drugs are illegal. That will fix it. Its just common sense.

[HoneyBadger]

We should pass a law that drugs are illegal. That will fix it. Its just common sense.

Oh crap! WHY DIDN'T WE THINK OF THIS ALREADY!?? [ROFL1]

[TRnCO]

oh no no no, you got it all wrong. If anything, we need to have safe houses where the druggies can go and safely do their drugs and if they overdose, someone is Johnny on the spot with Narcan to save them.[facepalm]

[BushMasterBoy]

I saw an Iranian submarine in Pueblo Reservoir.

[Great-Kazoo]

Waiting for a liberal forum member to post, "According to whose definition?" [emoji849]

Maritime Law. Must be flying a flag of nation of origin (not exact wording) if not considered pirates.


I am not a lawyer or pretend to be. However I definitely put a lot of their kids through college in the 20th century

[Clint45]

Maritime Law. Must be flying a flag of nation of origin (not exact wording) if not considered pirates.



Allegedly, that seized tanker was flying a false flag, was spoofing their GPS location, was red flagged as a pirate vessel 3 years ago, and was being used to fuel empty tankers heading to Cuba.

[FoxtArt]

Not opposed to the seizure, but when will we start seizing Russia's shadow fleet? Never. When will DJT follow through on any of his threats regarding Russia? Never. He wouldn't even increase tariffs on them.

I do wonder what the underlying objective is in Venezuela. POTUS does not send consistent messaging.

If drugs were the core issue, he wouldn't do things like this: https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/03/americas/donald-trump-pardon-honduras-president-intl-hnk

[Clint45]

Not opposed to the seizure, but when will we start seizing Russia's shadow fleet? Never. When will DJT follow through on any of his threats regarding Russia? Never. He wouldn't even increase tariffs on them.

And then there is China's vast fishing fleet. allegedly being used for paramilitary activities... the world is a mess right now because "interesting times," lol.

[FoxtArt]

“Venezuela is completely surrounded by the largest Armada ever assembled in the History of South America,” Trump said in a post on his social media platform. “It will only get bigger, and the shock to them will be like nothing they have ever seen before — Until such time as they return to the United States of America all of the Oil, Land, and other Assets that they previously stole from us.”


That kind of statement makes for HORRIBLE optics. Kind of hard to claim you're a peacemaker when you're literally telling another country "gimmie all the oil or I'll blow your shit up".

Despite the boat strikes, I don't think this has anything to do with drugs. I don't think DJT cares if bums OD or not. I also think it has very little to do with oil. Whatever the underlying motive is, it is not the publicly stated motive.

[BushMasterBoy]

303 billion barrels of oil? It is about the future security of the United States. Nothing compares to the Maracaibo basin and surrounding area. It is Monroe Doctrine military action. The OD situation cost 100K American lives a year. Not to mention the economic impact of illicit drugs. Pisses me off that is really hard to get opiates for pain because of addicts.
I have no sympathy for the narcoterror groups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maracaibo_Basin

[FoxtArt]

Rumor has it that the special announcement by Trump this evening is to announce a special military operation to denazify Venezuela.

Only mildly exaggerating.

[Clint45]

Rumor has it that the special announcement by Trump this evening is to announce a special military operation to denazify Venezuela.

Only mildly exaggerating.

Well, Maduro just announced his navy will be escorting tankers from now on.

[HoneyBadger]

Well, Maduro just announced his navy will be escorting tankers from now on.

That's cute.

[HoneyBadger]

And then there is China's vast fishing fleet. allegedly being used for paramilitary activities... the world is a mess right now because "interesting times," lol.

Hardly just alleged. It's a real thing and they have been actively involved in spying and "grey zone" activities that bully and punish anyone that opposes China's expansionism, especially in the South China Sea.

Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_Militia

I asked Grok "What sort of hostile activities has the PAFMM engaged in, especially against the Philippines?"




The People's Armed Forces Maritime Militia (PAFMM), also known as China's Maritime Militia, is a paramilitary force of civilian fishing vessels crewed by trained personnel under direct military command. It operates alongside the China Coast Guard (CCG) and People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) to advance China's territorial claims in the South China Sea through "gray zone" tactics?coercive actions below the threshold of armed conflict.

These tactics include swarming disputed features to establish presence, harassing foreign vessels, blocking access, and occasional ramming or shouldering. The PAFMM provides plausible deniability as "fishing boats" while supporting sovereignty assertions.

Activities Against the Philippines:
The PAFMM has been involved in numerous incidents targeting Philippine vessels, fishermen, and features in the West Philippine Sea (Philippines' exclusive economic zone in the South China Sea), often in coordination with the CCG.
Key examples include:

- Scarborough Shoal (2012): PAFMM vessels helped coordinate the standoff that resulted in China seizing effective control of the shoal from the Philippines, denying Filipino fishermen access ever since.

- Mischief Reef (1995): PAFMM involvement in China's occupation and development of the reef, leading to a major incident with the Philippines.

- Second Thomas Shoal (2014 and ongoing): PAFMM participated in blockades of Philippine resupply missions to the grounded BRP Sierra Madre, including harassment and interdiction of supply boats.

- Whitsun Reef (2021 and later): Swarms of over 200 PAFMM vessels occupied the reef within the Philippine EEZ, prompting diplomatic protests; similar swarming occurred in 2023 with 135+ vessels.

- Sabina Shoal (2024?2025): Record surges, including 203 PAFMM vessels in one week (August?September 2024), amid standoffs; vessels supported CCG ramming of Philippine ships and harassment.

General harassment:
Frequent dangerous maneuvers, blocking, and shadowing of Philippine coast guard, fisheries, and fishing vessels at features like Thitu Island, Rozul Reef, and Scarborough Shoal. Examples include sideswiping fisheries vessels (2024), swarming to deter aid missions (2024?2025), and grounding with environmental damage (e.g., 2025 incident near Pag-asa Island using a parachute anchor on coral).

Ramming and collisions: PAFMM vessels have deliberately rammed or sideswiped Philippine boats, such as fisheries vessels near Thitu Island (2024) and resupply missions.

While laser incidents (e.g., 2023 blinding of crew at Second Thomas Shoal, 2024?2025 against aircraft) and most water cannon attacks are primarily attributed to the CCG, PAFMM vessels often operate in tandem, providing swarms for intimidation and support.
These actions violate the 2016 Arbitral Tribunal ruling (which invalidated China's expansive claims) and international law, according to Philippine, U.S., and independent analyses. China denies the PAFMM's paramilitary role, claiming vessels are civilian fishermen sheltering from weather.
Overall, the PAFMM's hostile activities focus on asserting de facto control over disputed areas, harassing Philippine operations, and deterring fishing/resupply without escalating to open warfare.