Computer Gurus, please help with a build. [Archive] - Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums

View Full Version : Computer Gurus, please help with a build.

BigBear

01-25-2010, 10:22

iamhunter

01-25-2010, 10:44

Brother in law FINALLY got a job and will be moving out of my apartment (Thank God). Now we just need to work on the Mother in law... That being said, he is taking his desktop with him. I would like to replace it but honestly, have no idea where to start. Below is what I think I would like. Also, anything you would change, add, etc???

Desktop system (just the tower, I can get the periphrials by myself)

- mid tower case
- would like it to be able to run any games on high settings
- need good sound card for my music writing
- something that wouldn't "need" to be upgraded for a few years.

So here's what I'm thinking:

- Intel Core i7 960 processor at 4x3.3GHZ (8MB L3 cache)
- Coolermaster V8 cooling fan
- 6 GB DDR3-1866 memory
- NVidia GeForce GTX 285 (Single Card)
- ASUS P6TD Deluxe motherboard
- 1000 watt power
- 300GB HD at 10,000rpm (Single drive, not SATA/Raid)
- 22x Dual Format/double layer CD R/RW DVD R/RW (single only)
- 12 in 1 flash media reader/writer
- Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-fi XtremeGamer
- Killer Xeno Pro Gaming Network Card
- Windows 7 OS with MS Office '07
- Other programs such as Finale/Sibelius, drill writing software, etc.

Lowest I can find this configuration is close to $2,900. Anyways to make it cheaper without sacrificing performance?

Thanks all.

Honestly I'd skip out on the I7 960, you're paying alot of dough for an small performance boost.

go for the Bloomfield 920
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Post%20Avatar%20Depression&defid=4472461

for the video card I'd go for a Radeon 5850.
A little less money, and their crossfire technology is amazing. With current video technology you only need one, but in a year instead of replacing your whole videocard, just buy another 5850 (which will be half the price buy then) and you'll be back at the top of the game... I'd imagine this set up will give you 2-3 years of life.... which is really good for a videocard.
If you really wanna spring you could get the 5870...

For cases I've always been a fan of thermal take... I personally like the thermaltake element s, but it's all personal preference.

the Killer Xeno looks cool, but seems really gimmicky to me. I'd rather just plug in to the router, which would also save you some money...

Those changes right there should save you $300-500 bucks and sacrifice little to no performance on your end.

ronaldrwl

01-25-2010, 10:46

Try CyberPower. I just got a similar system but not quite as crazy for 1,180. They have the best prices I've seen. I got the i7 2.66.
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/

Moviestar

01-25-2010, 10:48

Sound card is kinda not needed. Most motherboards have built in hi-def sound cards, thats more personal preference. Network card is also not needed, I remember reading a review on those Kill Xenos..and the performance isnt worth price. Unless you're doing hardcore competitive gaming in CEVO or on the ESEA league, you won't need it. Video card is a good card, and will be able to play games mostly on high. For power I recommend a PC Power & Cooling if you can afford it, if not, a Corsair HX series is also pretty good. They are both expensive but if you're buying all the other high-end stuff, dont cheap on the PSU. I think that build will last you a while.

I second CyberPower, their prices are really fair.

BigBear

01-25-2010, 11:15

iamhunter

01-25-2010, 11:42

I've had several people push AMD for gaming scenarios... why?

Crossfire
Eyefinity
Better performance than Nvidia, at better prices.

:)

Hoosier

01-25-2010, 16:46

Wow, it's almost difficult to spec out a $3k machine anymore.

Remember, you really see diminishing returns on things. In other words, you aren't going to get 6x better computer than one you pay $500 for. So if money is really a concern, you're much better off with a cheap machine, or even a laptop.

Are you a hardcore high-end PC gamer? If not, this rig is much more than you need. If so, what games are you playing?

I just rebuilt mine this summer, I just looked up the purchase, it was $650. Granted I had a monitor, case, keyboard, mouse, and video card that I re-used from a previous machine. I went with AMD Phenom x4, 4gb RAM.

Where are you getting your prices? Once you know the product, you can use http://pricewatch.com to see the best possible price. The vast majority of the time I get close enough to the best price from http://newegg.com to make buying everything there more convenient. They're also a great source for reviews and large images of the products you're looking at buying.

Hope this helps, and I'd advice against spending $3k on a PC unless you're living on it. Take it from someone with five computers running right now who spends 12+ hours a day on the damn things ;)

H.

Moviestar

01-25-2010, 17:03

Sound card to me is important... I do write music and I do not like my trumpets sounding like kazoos! lol. I know a lot of it is the different "patches" of instruments, but I do find that a sound card does help... thoughts?

I've had several people push AMD for gaming scenarios... why?

Might axe the Killer Xeno according to several folks...

if you are using it for writing music yeah it would work. But if its for gaming/general use I would say it isn't needed. I had a xfi, but sold it because my mobos integrated card was the same quality.

and AMD is pushed more because they make better middle to middle-high end gaming stuff. I like Evga and Nvidia more because of the step-up program, and in my experience have been more stable.

BigBear

01-25-2010, 19:32

So if money is really a concern, you're much better off with a cheap machine, or even a laptop.

Are you a hardcore high-end PC gamer? If not, this rig is much more than you need. If so, what games are you playing?

Hope this helps, and I'd advice against spending $3k on a PC unless you're living on it.

Hoosier, good info. Money is a major concern. I want to stay away from laptop as the modularity and upgrade options often seem very limited.

Am I a hardcore high end PC-gamer... not exactly sure what that means but yes. I want a computer to run smootly even if I'm playing Crysis 2 on the highest settings possible. I do game some but I wouldn't say hardcore. Main game of choice is BF2 and expansions.

My wife appreciates your last sentence there in the quote HAHA. Those specs I got from a computer nerd aquaintence. He was looking at something called "I Buy The Power".

Music programs are Finale/Sibelius/ and some marching drill softare that is not too intensive on requirements. Again, I wanted a good sound system so that a trumpet sounds like a trumpet and not a kazoo or other misc instrument.

Your thoughts on build Hoosier?

MovieStar - Thank you for the info, I'll definitely check out AMD stuff. My aquantiance is a INTEL FANBOY apparently.

Lastly, I would be purchasing everything - Desktop, flatscreen - no more CRTs!!! moniter, mouse, keyboard, speakers (unless te moniter as a decent one in stereo). I have an external HD for backups and I also already have a printer.

Dr_Fwd

01-25-2010, 20:03

you're never gonna be able to keep up after the all high end PC Games, in 6monthes you won't be able to play new games even with the settings set on "medium" on your "today high end computer"

BigBear

01-25-2010, 20:17

you're never gonna be able to keep up after the all high end PC Games, in 6monthes you won't be able to play new games even with the settings set on "medium" on your "today high end computer"

Very true Sir. I read somewhere that every 6 months technology is "out dated". That's some major improvrments in some short amount of time. But for now, one can only squeeze so much onto a chip, lol.

Hoosier

01-25-2010, 20:38

I'd deff. suggest stepping down in what you're going to spend. I can run Crysis maxed on my machine, and I'm only running an 8800GT.

My last build I found the part list just surfing around looking at what other people built. I can't remember the exact terms I was searching for, but you can find some comparisons. Even easier people will just list all the parts they built with and then you can just pop the make/model into pricewatch or newegg and see what it's selling for.

Do you have a monitor already? These are the single most expensive component in most new builds. They're also something that should last you for 5 years or more, so I suggest investing in a decent 24" monitor at 1920x1200 resolution.

Otherwise, I suggest building to your budget and planning on upgrading your video card every other year or so. You can often find products that are say 95% the speed for 50% the price, and you're unlikely to even notice the difference. By the time games come out that need that speed, you'll be able to upgrade those parts.

I haven't done much with audio, but I'm unhappy with the integrated audio on my machine -- but it could be the speakers. It's almost impossible to find a board without built in audio... so my suggestion would be to go ahead and buy a machine with optical out, and see if that works for you. You can run optical out to your home theater amplifier, if you have one in that room. Otherwise just use the 3.5mm jacks to some decent speakers. If you're a real audio type of guy I am guessing you already have some monitor speakers? There are these T-class amplifiers that are supposed to be great for "warming up" music, but I haven't actually heard them and I'm not sure my ears are good enough to tell the difference.

Hope this info helps, I'm headed on vacation tomorrow, but I'll have the laptop and EVDO card and I'm sure I'll be bored at some point (it's family) -- so I'll stop by and see if you have more questions.

Cheers

BigBear

01-25-2010, 21:00

I do have a ton of questions... Bottom line is I am willing to go ahead and spend a little extra to not have to upgrade anytime soon as well as have someone build it for me. Call me lazy but I honestly do not have the time to sit around and "shop" for parts... plus the whole buying used thing on computer parts, no sir, been burned one too many times cause I wasn't knowledgeable. I think I know enough to do a build now, just am still a little skeptical.

The only components I have right now is my music software and a printer/scanner. Speakers play a role in music/audio manipulation but it is honestly not as much as people would have you believe (like Bose). Most of the might is in the actual "patch" or whatever you want to call the sound program. I do not have any speakers yet, but the local stores carry a decent supply.

Hoosier, what are you running on your comp then if something like Crysis isn't a problem?

Hoosier

01-25-2010, 21:25

Ok Gotcha. Yeah, I understand about not wanting to build a machine yourself. I only build machines for my own use anymore, because it's time consuming PITA. I do it for myself just because that's about how much I enjoy working on them. I do have a half dozen computers around the house at any given time, so that's plenty. And I'd never really recommend buying used.

I don't have any great recommendations on a prebuilt machine, honestly... it's much harder to compare apples to apples in that situation, since it's uncommon any two machines will have identical spec.

Actually Newegg does sell full desktops... I've been happy with both ASUS and Acer in the past. I had to call ASUS support, they're in Indiana and open late, which was nice. http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=10&name=Desktop-PCs

Interestingly, they do offer some combos:

http://www.newegg.com/Store/MasterComboStore.aspx?StoreID=7&name=DIY-PC-Combos

Here's an example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.311875

Essentially you get that batch of parts from them and assemble it yourself. Hopefully this helps!

H.

iamhunter

01-26-2010, 08:44

Very true Sir. I read somewhere that every 6 months technology is "out dated". That's some major improvrments in some short amount of time. But for now, one can only squeeze so much onto a chip, lol.

Not if you go with the Radeon 5850/5870 :p

Their crossfire technology is amazing.

LeJerk

01-26-2010, 21:24

My 2+ year old system run Dragon Age: Origins at maximum settings just fine.

It's nonsense that your computer will be obsolete 6 months from now haha.

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo CPU E6850 @ ~3.0GHz
Memory: 6GB (2x1GB 2x2GB) Corsair Dominator DDR 2 6400
Hard Drive: 150 GB WD Raptor 10,000 RPM (WD1500AHFD) + 1000GB (WD10EACS)
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 Ultra
Monitor: 22" LG W2252TQ
Sound Card: Motherboard Chipset Audio
Speakers/Headphones: Yamaha RX-V496 + 5.1 Speakers / Sennheiser HD-590 Headphones
Keyboard: Logitech Elite
Mouse: Logitech MX518
Mouse Surface: FUNC F30.R
Operating System: Windows Vista™ Business 64bit
Motherboard: EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 nForce 680i
Computer Case: Cooler Master Cosmos 1000

Copied from my Xfire profile: http://www.xfire.com/profile/lejerk

BigBear

01-27-2010, 14:31

Correct me if I'm wrong:

1. AMD is cheaper and will run just fine for my desires.
2. A "special" network card and sound card may not be needed since onboard MB sound can be decent on todays MB's.

Last question then: Video cards:... ATI Radeon I'm assuming for Crossfire and because it's AMD compliant. What version, it's been so long since I've done this. Should I start with just one GREAT card or do the two not so great cards? And how about power usage, how do I know what powerplant to put in it? 850 watts big enough?

BadShot

01-27-2010, 16:12

Funny, I just built my new system last weekend. Fairly similar in config and reasoning. I needed this to be a high end gaming system and have some logevity not to mention upgradability. So I'll comment on the items you have and then list out what I went with.

- Intel Core i7 960 processor at 4x3.3GHZ (8MB L3 cache) - Like it's been said, you're not getting a large enough performance boost over the i7 920 (.33GHz) for the extra approximately $300. Not to mention that you can fairly easily over clock the 920 to I'm pretty sure right above 3GHz without risking the system.

- Coolermaster V8 cooling fan - OK this thing is H U G E .. I bought one, took it out of the box and realized that I would have to cut a hole in the side of the case to fit it in. That's an ATX Mid Tower case by the way. This is not to mention that the retail i7 chip came with a good fan that is holding the cpu at very reasonable temps, I also attribute that some to the 3 fans in the case though.

- 6 GB DDR3-1866 memory - Why 1866? Most boards won't give you that type of performance anyway. I went with 1600 PC3 12800, got known good performance and shaved $50. Again over clocking is possible if needed.

- NVidia GeForce GTX 285 (Single Card) - You'll not get maxed settings and good online FPS with this as a single card, not to mention the momentum has shifted and according to resouces like Tom's Hardware and many, many, many over clocking sites I used for research, NVidia is significantly behind ATI for the near future. I'd either double up now or go with something along the Radeon 5850 (x2) or what I did, a Radeon 5870. Don't forget these new bastards have a MASSIVE footprint inside the case, this will introduce cable management issues. That's why I went with one extremely high end card rather than 2 slightly lower end cards.

- ASUS P6TD Deluxe motherboard - Strongly considered this board, but again I wanted a system that was going to be around for several (4 or so) years, so I wanted USB and SATA 3.0 options, I went with the P6X58D for right around $40 more.

- 1000 watt power - WOW dude, that's a crap ton of power.. absolutely over kill for the system, you can easily step that down to 750 and have more than enough for just about everything now and tomorrow. I strongly suggest a modular PSU, I wish I hadn't skimped there, simply because of cable management inside the case.

- 300GB HD at 10,000rpm (Single drive, not SATA/Raid) - Nothing really wrong here, though you will get better over all performance from a pair of RAID 1 7200rpm disks, slightly more expensive, but still within I'd guess about $50.

- 22x Dual Format/double layer CD R/RW DVD R/RW (single only) - Get 2 :)

- 12 in 1 flash media reader/writer - Sure if you need it.

- Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-fi XtremeGamer - I really suggest you try out the onboard first, there have been significant advances in what is onboard from many years ago. Try it, push it hard and if you don't like it, you'll already know what you want and have the cash set aside. If not, score.

- Killer Xeno Pro Gaming Network Card - not even needed, you'll have dual 1GB nic's onboard and that integration is almost always better than using an expansion card, not to mention you're running out of internal realestate fast.

- Windows 7 OS with MS Office '07 - OK, just get the 64-bit version of Win7, that lets you use all 6GB of RAM and the processor much more effectively. Office, unless you already have it, just use Open or Star Office, you'll wonder why people actually pay for the MS version.. seriously.

- Other programs such as Finale/Sibelius, drill writing software, etc. - cool, you're not likely to stress this system with non graphic design or CAD like software well other than in some of the games, especially once DX11 takes hold.

----------------------

OK here's what I did and what it ran me. Mind you I had the Display's and hard drives.

* ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $309

- First one was DOA and delayed the build by 2 weeks total because of shipping back and forth to NewEgg. The good side was NewEgg covered shipping for the RMA and RMA approval and online and fast.

* Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM55811859 (N82E16835100007) $6?

- Not totally needed because the CPU came with some, but because I had a DOA board at first, it was a good thing I had extra.

* Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920 - Retail $289

- OK went with the 920 because I had been debating about just going with the i5 on the high end. Chose this because you get the newer socket type and I wouldn't be kicking myself for not just spending the extra little bit and having the ability to upgrade to the next gen Intel chip by virtue of the socket type. The HH6 rationalized that for me, good thing we're both geeks for a living.

* Sunbeam PSU-ECO750-US-BL 750W ATX12V 2.3 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - $90

- Solid and fairly quiet PSU, still wish I'd spend the extra and gone with a modular supply and still might in the not to distant future. Wish I'd just spent the extra $40 and been done with it at build time.

* SAPPHIRE 100281SR Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity - Retail $409

- Uh, yeah, kicks much ass.

* Rosewill DESTROYER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ,comes with Three Fans-1x Front Blue LED 120mm Fan, 1x Top 120mm Fan, 1x Rear 120mm Fan - Retail $60

--- Hate the case, spend the money to get a good one, this one will dent if you look at it mean. It's only saving graces are that the PSU mounts to the bottom inside and the front panel is on the top front and it came with 3 fans and can support 2 more if needed. Then again, I still believe Dell ships some of the best designed cases out there.

* OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV6GK - Retail $149

-Again, just a tad downlevel from your stated choice, but more than capible and it's in the approve vendors list for my board (and the one you have listed)

Already had 2x Seagate 500GB 7200rpm SATA drives, set up in a RAID 1, 2x 22" flat panel monitors and 1x DVD burner. I snagged a second DVD burner at Microcenter because I was there and it was something like $35 so I didn't have to wait to have it shipped and then mount it later.

Most everything was pulled from NewEgg because, well they had the best prices and I could get better shipping arrangements. Didn't really care that much about who, so much as how much.

So right below $1400, the system is upgradable to 12GB of RAM, the next generation of 6 core processors and USB and SATA 3.0 devices internal and external. I don't like spending this kinda cash on a PC any more, so I do it once every 4-6 years and do it right the first time. I had to save for 6 months to do it. Then again I can see a new case and power supply on my birthday/xmas lists.

There ya go, my less than humble .02

BigBear

01-27-2010, 16:30

Wow Badshot... good stuff....

Back to the #%^&* drawing board.