View Full Version : Observations on Forum Etiquette and Life in General
I've only been here a couple of weeks, but I've noticed a few habits some people tend to have around these forums.
First off, a little background about myself to provide some context for these observations.
I started shooting when I was five years old, using a bolt action .22 my late father gave me for my birthday. I seemed to have a nack for it, so by the time I was eight I was involved in competition trap shooting. My dad was an avid gun collector and shooter, and novice gunsmith, so I had the privilege of shooting a wide variety of calibers and configurations, and the habit has carried on into my adult life. I love to shoot, I love guns as both a hobby and a method of survival/self defense.
My natural talents and intellect however, lead me to pursue a career in business, where I've enjoyed personal success and satisfaction. I still shoot in my free time and read about weapons as time permits, but I don't have near the time I used to, nor the ability to aggregate the hands on experience or knowledge of an LEO/FFL/Gunsmith/Military person.
Do you care about my life story? I doubt it.
But the point I'm trying to make is that, while I don't have any professional or educational qualifications concerning firearms, I have grown up and maintain a huge passion for the subject matter, and do what I can to further that knowledge on a daily basis, although that is severely limited by the demands of my job and family.
I was hoping for a welcoming, helpful, and like-minded community here. However, it seems there are a few people on this forum that seem to look down upon us mere "hobbyists". Somehow your opinion is exponentially greater to ours because you served in the military or the police force, or some other sort of para-military role.
And granted, your profession may have given you some valuable knowledge or insight that would prove helpful to those of us who don't have the time or resources to learn as much as you.
But that doesn't make you better. If you have something to offer, offer it in humility and if some of us make a mistake, correct it with kindness.
Many people use the anonymity and impersonal qualities of a forum to vent their daily frustrations and negative emotions, but please, don't call people "mall ninjas" or call their opinions "BS". This isn't some elite club you need to protect. Every capable citizen in America should strive to have as much knowledge as they can about our 2nd amendment rights, and those of you who are blessed with above-average knowledge should strive to help educate your neighbors, not condemn them and lord your knowledge over them. It may provide you with a fleeting sense of self-importance, or a small reprieve from the daily troubles of life, but in the long run it's a dangerously self-destructive habit, and one that leads to bitterness and ruin.
Love your family, serve your community, and take everyday as a chance to improve the world you live in.
Even on the forums.
- Jack Thane
Jack, being a Mall Ninja is the same thing as being a ricer. It's often where people start off in the hobby. While it can be insulting, some times you just have to call someone a mall ninja and explain why.
Also, being a mall ninja is more complex than just being someone who wants a laser for their long range rifle, or has to have a DE as their carry piece. For instance, one time I was a Sportsman's Warehouse looking at a brochure for Khar pistols, this guy was reading it over my shoulder. I told him I was familiar with them and didn't need the brochure if he would like to look at it. He took this opportunity to tell me no thanks, as his gun of choice was the XD 45. He was unsure of it at first, but since it was his issue weapon in Iraq, and he got trapped in a fire fight where he shot "at least 500 rounds, didn't have time to clean it and went out the next day and it did the same thing again." I told him that I wasn't aware of a modern pistol made that would have a problem shooting 1,000 rounds without being cleaned and thanked him for his story. I didn't bother to ask when the military switched to the XD 45 as a service issue weapon, or how he managed to carry around 500 rounds of ammo packed into 38 magazines.
The point is, with some people, they don't deserve kindness when they are just looking to bullshit you with fake stories.
theGinsue
02-01-2010, 11:46
Well said thane.
I've seen a couple of threads here recently where the exchanges have gotten a bit nasty to say the least.
I believe that stating your credentials, where they exist, and a simple "Based on ....., I respectfully disagree...here's my take on the matter..." or "Based on my experience, I believe you're incorrect about...... because...." would be sufficient.
We've got losts of experience and knowledge here on the site and lots of folks who are happy to share this knowledge. We've also got folk, like me, we aren't credentialed but have a certain understanding of things, sometimes it's inaccurate.
The two main reasons I'm on this site are (a) social fellowship with like-minded individuals, and (b) to learn.
When I read through a thread where the exchanges become personal assaults to other members, I immediately lose interest and, as a result, lose the opportunity to gain important knowledge.
Perhaps we could remember to show each other the respect we'd like to be afforded. then again, perhaps you all feel I'm full of BS and should STFU. Your call.
The point is, with some people, they don't deserve kindness when they are just looking to bullshit you with fake stories.
True, but when someone genuinely believes what they are saying, we could consider being less hostile in our approach to put them on the right path.
True, but when someone genuinely believes what they are saying, we could consider being less hostile in our approach to put them on the right path.
Agreed. All verbally assaulting a person does is make them even MORE defensive and MORE solidified in their dilusions.
And besides, even your deluded "mall ninja" deserves a little kindness, or else a mall ninja he will remain, and possibly an angry one at that.
It's like having an overweight friend. You can call him fat all you want. It's not gonna do much for him, or your friendship.
On the other hand, if you offer him some eating advice and a solid exercise program, he might lose weight, and it might even serve to strengthen your relationship.
It's like having an overweight friend. You can call him fat all you want. It's not gonna do much for him, or your friendship.
On the other hand, if you offer him some eating advice and a solid exercise program, he might lose weight, and it might serve to strengthen your relationship.
Or in my case, the more I workout, the bigger I get! It's not fair.... Yeah, I feel better and all but I need to weigh LESS.... not more.
The answer is cardio then. Don't lift weights to work out, just cardio. Even strength training, as long as it is cardio.
theGinsue
02-01-2010, 12:14
Is stuffing my face with food considered cardio? 'Cuz that's what I do.
Yup, I do as much cardio as I can. Usually on a bike though. With my accident, knees are not the best functioning and I can't run as far/fast as I can bike.
... I need to weigh LESS.... not more.
Or just put on a mask and become a professional wrassler... [Tooth]
Simply stated, if you can't support your opinion with hard evidence, it's OPINION not fact. If I am stating an opinion, I usually identify it as such, along with a discalimer about getting what you pay for [ROFL1].
And how do you treat the guy that shows up to his security job everyday telling old war stories about shooting kids in Iraq, when you can tell that the closest this dumb piece of shit has ever been to the military was hanging up on a recruiter? I run into guys like that on occasion and they are the kind of mall ninja that don't deserve anything but to be put into their place. Thane I think that there is an important difference between a mall ninja and a fudd, and your post refers to fudds more than ninjas.
Also, this same guy was the kind of guy who would ride people's asses in the fast lane in the security Jeep, then light them up with the all yellow light bar like he was a cop. This guy was a total failure at life. Glad I never had to work with him.
Ranger353
02-01-2010, 12:29
You know, I think you are spot on. And I would add that this goes for just about any group or forum, or blog. There are small cliques of folks that feed off of negativity for no reason than "they can", and they do, and they get away with it and thus fill empowered to continue this behavior.
I have my professional credentials on the footer of this post not because I am trying to make an impression or assert myself over someone else, but instead to add some measure of credibility to my comments. I only post comments/opinions to matter that I have something to add to, but I try very hard not to step on toes too.
Thanks for the candid comments, I think we all have to get a check on our humility every once and a while and I hope this experience has not soured you on the group. There really are some great helpful people here, but there is also that 10% that are less than.
Take care.
And how do you treat the guy that shows up to his security job everyday telling old war stories about shooting kids in Iraq, when you can tell that the closest this dumb piece of shit has ever been to the military was hanging up on a recruiter? I run into guys like that on occasion and they are the kind of mall ninja that don't deserve anything but to be put into their place. Thane I think that there is an important difference between a mall ninja and a fudd, and your post refers to fudds more than ninjas.
Also, this same guy was the kind of guy who would ride people's asses in the fast lane in the security Jeep, then light them up with the all yellow light bar like he was a cop. This guy was a total failure at life. Glad I never had to work with him.
I understand, but there is something to be said for sympathy, much of which is somewhat lost on the current generation.
If a person is acting like that, it's symptomatic of deeper issues that person has in their life...
No-one has ever gotten better by being "put in their place".
Kindness is the quickest way to provoke change.
Granted, some people just don't get it, or don't want it.
In that case, I would advise ignoring them.
Unless you're fighting a war, I'd always advise against the "hand of justice" mentality.
That's just me though, but I'll tell you that philosophy has provided me with a long, incredibly blessed life.
You know, I think you are spot on. And I would add that this goes for just about any group or forum, or blog. There are small cliques of folks that feed off of negativity for no reason than "they can", and they do, and they get away with it and thus fill empowered to continue this behavior.
I have my professional credentials on the footer of this post not because I am trying to make an impression or assert myself over someone else, but instead to add some measure of credibility to my comments. I only post comments/opinions to matter that I have something to add to, but I try very hard not to step on toes too.
Thanks for the candid comments, I think we all have to get a check on our humility every once and a while and I hope this experience has not soured you on the group. There really are some great helpful people here, but there is also that 10% that are less than.
Take care.
Well said, it's nice to see some level-headed people coming out of the woodwork.
And don't worry, I'm not soured, just pointing out some things I've seen.
A day lived, a day learned.
Well, that is why I used the example of the guy at Sportsman's Warehouse. It's really a situation of "what are you going to do?" Just because some guy rattles off a total BS story to you, doesn't mean you should punch him in the ear or push him down or something. That's why I was like, "cool story bro." and walked away. I understand what you are saying and it's easy to get wrapped up in. Obviously I addressed your point from a different angle and wish that I hadn't, because it really just sounds like I'm standing up for e-thugs. That wasn't my intention.
GreenScoutII
02-01-2010, 12:43
I tend to think a little civility goes a long way. Also, arguing about 9mm vs .45 ACP, 5.56 vs 7.62, and aparently, 12 ga buckshot vs 12 ga birdshot is a lot like arguing politics. The fencesitters might be swayed, but the true believers on either side will never change their opinions.
I guess having been married twice, divorced once, and being the father of four girls has given me my lifetime maximum saturation for arguing already. I simply don't have the energy anymore, so I try to be nice even when I completely disagree.
Also, kind of like how people post their credentials, I just chose an appropriate avatar.
Also, kind of like how people post their credentials, I just chose an appropriate avatar.
HAHAHAHA.
"at'll do donkey... 'at'all do."
iamhunter
02-01-2010, 13:04
And besides, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and preferences.
Telling other people they are "wrong" makes you just as much of an ass (sorry stuart) as anyone.
the best thing you can do is provide the facts and let them decide for themselves.
Thane,
Thanks for the insertion of levelheadedness there. It is easy to continue an angument when others challenge your personal experiences. The purpose of some of the threads has slipped, something easily fixed though. Sometimes we need to be calmed down when we get worked up. Chime in at any time, I'll always appreciate it.
StagLefty
02-01-2010, 14:28
After finally reaching a mature level in life :)-you never stop learning new things from others-the internet can be awfully confusing about who your communicating with-if you disagree that's fine BUT it doesn't call for loss of civility-with that said it's time for some soup and a nap ! [Beer]
Hey! Simmer down! It's not my fault I'm better than you! I mean, like, come on, totally.... Not everyone can parachute out of a biplane while single handedly causing the Zombie apacolpyse to fail! Gimme my twinkie!
lol, I never take anything on the internet too serisouly. It's always good to step back and if you can do your own research!
Thane,
Thanks for the insertion of levelheadedness there. It is easy to continue an angument when others challenge your personal experiences. The purpose of some of the threads has slipped, something easily fixed though. Sometimes we need to be calmed down when we get worked up. Chime in at any time, I'll always appreciate it.
No problem, it's easy to get caught up in the heat of a discussion.
and don't get me wrong, I'm always up for a healthy debate, but just make sure it's a debate, not a conflict.
Everyone starts somewhere and others hold the passion closer than others. I hate seeing people be belittled at gun shops. Sometimes I go in and see how much crap they try to give until I finally let them know I have a touch of knowledge[Coffee]
At the gun show one dealer informed me spikes tactical was no longer making lower receivers thus validating his $170 price. It felt good to have a phone with internet to later show/tell him otherwise. I understand making a profit but do not lie while trying to do so.
anyways, sorry I got off topic, and I see you point. It seems when people get to know a subject very well they like to show it. Those who do it with dignity and understand everyone starts somewhere are the best received.
I am sure I have come off like a jackass on occasion, usually when someone is blatantly wrong and mostly because it is easy to attack someone on the internet. I have also helped a lot of people on here with info and led them in the right direction and that definitely is much more gratifying than the previous!
Luckily I have met a ton of the guys on here and they are all good people.
Best thing to do is not take anything to heart, especially on the internet[Beer]
StagLefty
02-01-2010, 15:04
Hey! Simmer down! It's not my fault I'm better than you! I mean, like, come on, totally.... Not everyone can parachute out of a biplane while single handedly causing the Zombie apacolpyse to fail! Gimme my twinkie!
lol, I never take anything on the internet too serisouly. It's always good to step back and if you can do your own research!
That was you ?? Now I'm totally humbled !![Beer]
That was you ?? Now I'm totally humbled !![Beer]
No.... it was my great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather who singly handedly...
HAHA. I'm feeling like a smartbutt today, sorry for derailing at least two threads.
Does this mean I should re-think my "Die in a fire, asshole!" macro?
Sorry mate but it seems if you don't have thick skin and a will to learn, you'll never be able to enjoy yourself in this community (helps keep the libs away too lol).
No-one has ever gotten better by being "put in their place".
Much of what I've learned in the past came Crome being put in my place. Very humbling [BooHoo] [Weight]
Sorry mate but it seems if you don't have thick skin and a will to learn, you'll never be able to enjoy yourself in this community (helps keep the libs away too lol).
Much of what I've learned in the past came Crome being put in my place. Very humbling [BooHoo] [Weight]
you're welcome for that[Tooth]
Does this mean I should re-think my "Die in a fire, asshole!" macro?
Yeah, prolly...also the script that fills an entire screen with "STFU MORON!" over and over....[Muaha]
Troublco
02-01-2010, 17:48
I'm reminded of that saying, "An armed society is a polite society". I think most of the folks on this forum are here for the same reasons, looking to learn and associate with some mostly like-minded folks. There are a few that get a little abrasive once in a while, but I think they're very much in the minority. I do think that folks just getting into the shooting sports in any way should be encouraged, although occasionally you do run into a true screwball. I have to say that I really enjoy this forum, and have met some very nice folks here. I suppose I just expect to see a few here and there that are abrasive, and I just make allowance that there will be a few in the mix. Cynical, perhaps, but I think accurate.
SA Friday
02-01-2010, 22:54
The hobby of firearms is filled with erroneous information. I believe this comes from the fact that most of the modern day firearms and ammunition testing is proprietary. Lets face it, there just isn't a lot of cutting edge science in this area, but there's a hell of a lot of RDT&E by corporations on new product. That info is $$$$$, not science.
This results in a lot of MIS-information out there, and you can get a huge ear full if you blog on various sites regularly. It can wear on you... So, some people get, um, short with those not willing to discuss the possibility their version of reality isn't truth. It's happened on every site I've been on.
Ultimately, if you spend enough time reading people's posts, you figure out which ones to listen to and which ones to ignore. This being a site with mostly CO shooters, I have had the pleasure of knowing some of the posters on this site for years. Others, just recently. It all lends to credibility and information exchange.
Ya, some newbies occasionally get spiked like a volleyball. It's part of the limitations of this communication media as much as anything. Some are willing to type via the web what they wouldn't say face to face. Once again, this being primarily a CO based site and face to face has a greater chance of happening, it keeps everything to a low roar.
BTW, most competition shooters know more than almost all the LE and military I've ever known, and can flat out shoot them too. I know hundreds in all three categories. Placing the correct reliability level on the information provided via blog is the responsibility of those reading it. Being kind to your fellow man... I just hate everyone until they prove they deserve otherwise.[Coffee]
Think it's bad here, try going onto a car board. Every other day you get some flunky coming on asking, "If u got 3000 buks to spend on ur car, wut would you buy for it?"
At first it's fun, but then you turn into an adult and stop dumping your paychecks into homemade turbo kits and start typing responses like, "Why don't you put that $3,000 into a savings account and use some of it to learn fucking English?"
Sometimes, even when you try not to swear, you just have to. The internet changes people.
Think it's bad here, try going onto a car board.
Just what I was thinking.
This place is great compared to many others on the web.
Yeah, no one has threatened "blow u away" at the next meet yet.
Yeah, no one has threatened "blow u away" at the next meet yet.
heh just wait until I start posting in the recipe of the day thread.
theGinsue
02-01-2010, 23:37
I have also helped a lot of people on here with info and led them in the right direction and that definitely is much more gratifying than the previous!
Yup, I'm one of 'em!
I also take much of what SAFriday says as gospel because I understand his background - I'm worked with his folks in the past.
Lots of great knowledge here and I think what thane is suggesting makes sense. Sometimes we just get a little too passionate over our own positions on a subject and the conversations start moving OT and into a more hostile area.
It's good to see all of us take a step back from those discussions and move on again as friends!
Okay, so whose buying the brew at the new shoot? (For consuming AFTER the shooting and the guns are put away; of course!)
Troublco
02-01-2010, 23:49
Okay, so whose buying the brew at the new shoot? (For consuming AFTER the shooting and the guns are put away; of course!)
Why, YOU are! And a hearty thanks from all of us for that! I bet we get a record turnout. You're OK, Ginsue. I don't care what everybody else says about you.
Why, YOU are! And a hearty thanks from all of us for that! I bet we get a record turnout. You're OK, Ginsue. I don't care what everybody else says about you.
I heard this as well! thanks Ginsue![Beer]
P.S. I like easy street wheat[Beer]
Troublco
02-01-2010, 23:52
P.S. I like easy street wheat[Beer]
+1!
theGinsue
02-02-2010, 00:07
I don't even know where to find Easy Street Wheat - but if I can make it to the next shoot, I bring some of it!
You're OK, Ginsue. I don't care what everybody else says about you.
You bastards been talking to my wife and co-workers? Oh, uh, I mean, uh...... It was I joke. Right? Yeah, I knew that. Ha ha. See I'm laughing... yeah, I knew it all along.
(Now to find out where I can buy some easy Street Wheat. Me and my big mouth.)
Easy Street is pretty common in a lot of liquor stores. About as common as Shock Top I'd say. ;)
theGinsue
02-02-2010, 00:11
Shock t... what? what did he say?
I'm gettin' too old for this.
Why can't you people drink normal good beer like (hmm. I don't quite know what a good beer is anymore. Lemme research this real quick....
Oh here's one that sounds good, it's called Easy Street Wh.... DOH!)
i think people are pretty good around here in dealing with us newbies. check out ar15.com if you want to be insulted.
Shock t... what? what did he say?
I'm gettin' too old for this.
Why can't you people drink normal good beer like (hmm. I don't quite know what a good beer is anymore. Lemme research this real quick....
Oh here's one that sounds good, it's called Easy Street Wh.... DOH!)
It's not bad, just read the label before you crack the top as it needs to be mixed a little.
gnihcraes
02-02-2010, 10:47
so I'll type a few words... everyone here seems to be pretty easy going and knowledgeable. A friend talked me into buying an AR instead of some other makes and models of equipment. I watched this group for a while and created an account. I've learned a lot and have met a few of the people here, good folks. I'm still learning and trying to contribute when I can as a fairly new person.
Looked at AR15.com a couple times, and there is way too much macho crap going on there. I feel safe with this group of local people. I'll make it to more of the shoots this year to meet some more folks.
The recent thread regarding home defense weapons of choice, was getting a little out of hand I think, but that's how it goes sometimes. I've learned some things by reading it. I'm not a mall ninja, leo or anything like that, just a guy who likes to shoot for the fun of it with friends and family.
Now as for the beer thing... well I can't drink it anyway, so I'll try to bring some creme soda or something... :)
tackspitter
02-02-2010, 18:39
I check in often but dont post much. Why because someone has always already posted a much wittier or coherent reply before me. Some of you here have really huge brains.:) . But seriously I have found this to be my go to place for reloading info , local shooting info and just some very interesting informative discussions. Ive hunted for 30 years but have just become interested in shooting more since my 2 daughters started to love all things shooting and have learned a great deal from many of you here. Just wanted to say thanks for those of us who read but dont post to those of you who share your knowledge and opinions.[Beer]
jerrymrc
02-02-2010, 19:53
Shoot, free beer, The Ginsue I got it. I frequent 3 gun boards, 1 automotive board and one vintage audio board. I do belong to others but only drop by on occasion.
Sometimes it is fun to meet the guys that ya hang out with on the ol net. Have met some of the guys here at one of the shoots and when we helped WW move. I have been to all the Fal Fests and Oregon shoots.
Never been one much to argue especially on the net. I am always reminded of that joke that ends with "you may win but your still a retard".
Just some thoughts.
Shock t... what? what did he say?
I'm gettin' too old for this.
Why can't you people drink normal good beer like (hmm. I don't quite know what a good beer is anymore. Lemme research this real quick....
Oh here's one that sounds good, it's called Easy Street Wh.... DOH!)
easy street is made up in ft. collins. I like to support the local places, not so much boulder beer though.
Shock top is pretty good as well.
You should be able to get it at about any local liquor shop. if you like wheat beer (blue moon) then give it a try and I bet you will like it.[Beer]
theGinsue
02-02-2010, 21:39
Okay, now that we're showing good etiquette and playing nicely again, I suppose I need to find out when our next shoot will be for site members. I certainly don't want to miss it and get labeled a welsh-er.
thane
If you think this board is bad, goto the other ar-15 board. You will be amazed how much good etiquette there is here. Just for writing your post, you would prolly end up gettin banned (on the other board that is) Correct me if I'm wrong.
There maybe alot of wise a$$es on the forum, but those same guys will help you out in a time of need(within their powers).
As for beer, I loves dat Easy Street.[Beer]
I try not to joke about shooting people, but if any Red Stripe shows up.....
I likely won't be at the 2/13 shoot though, some stuff came up.
Troublco
02-02-2010, 22:25
Okay, now that we're showing good etiquette and playing nicely again, I suppose I need to find out when our next shoot will be for site members. I certainly don't want to miss it and get labeled a welsh-er.
Well, as a matter of fact I think it's on February 13th at the South Site although I have not heard anyone mention a time, or time frame. Marlin? Anyone?
I agree this is one of the best forums out there. I am partial to the M-14 Firing Line Forum, but 1)it isn't local and 2) it deals mostly with M-14's. It is, however, an excellent source of info for anything M-14 and also has lots of friendly, knowledgeable members along with a minimum of BS. But, this one's still the best!
I get down there about 8:30-9,, And let the dog run around for a bit..
For the most part around 10 or so.. Although, I'm still waiting on the insurance company.. So,, Not sure if I'll make this one.. Going to try though..
68Charger
02-02-2010, 23:16
Tommyknocker "Butthead"
it's a dopplebock...
I really gotta make it to a shoot- my father & stepmother are flying in that day, so I don't think I can make 2/13... but we'll see if they're coming in late enough.
theGinsue
02-02-2010, 23:44
I try not to joke about shooting people, but if any Red Stripe shows up.....
But Stuart - "It's beer. Hooray beer!"
Troublco
02-03-2010, 18:55
No whining, Irving.....
I may bring some Red Stripe now.....
jerrymrc
02-03-2010, 19:43
Unless it is raining or snowing I will be there. Have to put in an appearance. I need to check the pattern and ammo on the Siaga and guess I will drag out the A1.
I gotsta work so unfortunately I won't be able to go.
MichiganMilitia
02-03-2010, 23:15
I have yet to make it to an official shoot and i'm afraid I wont be at this one either. I promised my lady we spend Valentine's weekend up at Breck doing some skiing.
Maybe next time.
Whew, good, I'm not the only one that hasn't made it to a shoot.
And I ain't made it to a mall....
Raging Bitch Belgian-Style IPA (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/68/52855)
Otter Creek Russian Imperial Stout (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/119/47140)
4C 10th Anniversary Ale (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1042/55856)
If you can't find these then there is always http://www.dogfish.com/
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