Trade items

[Mista Bukit]

If you have 40K rounds of ammo you have "currency" in a cash less situation. Other scarce items will be at a premeum and should be considered for stockpiling.

[jerrymrc]

While true I have always believed that if we ever got to that point then trading ammo might not be the best way to go. The persons club just became a rifle.

Now having some put away is a good thing but when it comes to the barter it would have to be within the group so to speak.

[theGinsue]

I agree with Jerry.

Within your group in which you are all working together towards a common goal for the common good of the group.

If you were to use ammo to trade outside of your group, even if it's with a current allie of your group, you've just provided a potential (or eventual) enemy with the means of defeating you and taking everything you have.

[Batteriesnare]

If you were to use ammo to trade outside of your group, even if it's with a current allie of your group, you've just provided a potential (or eventual) enemy with the means of defeating you and taking everything you have.

This.

[AP-4Guy]

I agree, giving ammunition to the wrong folks could be a fatal mistake.

In a real crisis, the barter item would have to have some immediate, useable value. Cans of food, can openers, soap, matches, fuel, toilet paper, basic medicines etc would be high on the list. Clothing and blankets might be tops, but my guess is that if it is serious enough to be bartering, there will be plenty of clothes and blankets laying around, previously owned by those who are now dead or missing.

[Irving]

What if the choice is between trading bullets or starving to death?

What if you are trading ammo you can no longer use (that gun broke) for a gun that you have plenty of ammo for?

In the very beginning of a fend for your self situation, I think that diapers might carry a pretty high value.

[AP-4Guy]

Powdered baby formula too. This could be priceless to the right people, and there will hopefully always be babies, no matter what happens.

[KevDen2005]

What about really soft toilet paper?

[KevDen2005]

I also agree that a person may only be able to carry so much ammo if they are on the move

[mutt]

I always figured vice items would become the defacto currency if things went to shit. Alcohol, tobacco, maybe even batteries and certain snack foods that can survive long term storage without refrigeration.

Ammo would definitely be a valuable item, but as people said before, I'd be wary of arming my competitors.

[cbs]

I love this stuff, I used to go out on survival hikes with my father for one to two weeks at a time in the Colorado mountains. I would hope that in a crisis that the people would not forget that we are Americans. This thread sounds like it's us against them. If a man and his family needed 5to10 rounds of ammo I would make a trade if I could. Survival at it's core can be very harsh but let's not forget we are still "One Nation Under God". If the big crisis does happen the core of who we are as Americans should change.

[cowboykjohnson]

The promise of safety for everything they have to contribute, and to join your group would work for a while if you could find the right people. Alcohol will go along way as well.

[cbs]

correction should not change. wow!!!

[MadRabbit]

"Feminine products" If mama ain't happy, nobody's happy...

On ammo, I think .22LR would be an excellent barter item. Easy enough to obtain at present, good for hunting smaller game (ie. feed your family), poor for attacking your neighbors (ie. being a thug), small enough to store and carry, and I can't think of any gun owning household that doesn't have one. I didn't say it wouldn't be lethal if you chose to be a thug with it, but it would be a poor choice. Of course it won't eliminate the risk of being shot with your own ammo, but it may mitigate some of the risk. I also think choosing carefully who you do business with will eliminate a lot of this risk as well.

Bottom line is if I have what you need and you have what I need I think we'll be able to reach an agreement.

[mutt]

I would hope that in a crisis that the people would not forget that we are Americans. This thread sounds like it's us against them. If a man and his family needed 5to10 rounds of ammo I would make a trade if I could. Survival at it's core can be very harsh but let's not forget we are still "One Nation Under God". If the big crisis does happen the core of who we are as Americans should change.

While I would like to hope a crisis would bring out the best in people, the harsh reality is people would turn on each other like animals. There is a very thin veil that keeps people civilized. Once that is torn away, you won't like what you see.

A short term crisis like 9/11, or even Haiti, tend to bring out the best in people. I think that's because there is a feeling that the veil of civilization is just temporarily removed, that normal life with govt and laws is coming back. People feel they need to just hang on until then so they tend to help each other. Step it up to a total disaster where society gets destroyed ( nukes, plague, global natural disaster) and the tendency to be helpful and civilized gets thrown out the window. Now it becomes survival of the fittest. In that scenario, I wouldn't count on my fellow Americans for help. I wish it were different, but human nature is what it is.

[jerrymrc]

While I would like to hope a crisis would bring out the best in people, the harsh reality is people would turn on each other like animals. There is a very thin veil that keeps people civilized. Once that is torn away, you won't like what you see.

A short term crisis like 9/11, or even Haiti, tend to bring out the best in people. I think that's because there is a feeling that the veil of civilization is just temporarily removed, that normal life with govt and laws is coming back. People feel they need to just hang on until then so they tend to help each other. Step it up to a total disaster where society gets destroyed ( nukes, plague, global natural disaster) and the tendency to be helpful and civilized gets thrown out the window. Now it becomes survival of the fittest. In that scenario, I wouldn't count on my fellow Americans for help. I wish it were different, but human nature is what it is.

The above post is why I asked for this forum. Here is the deal. While I have been doing this for a long time there is only one other couple in my city that I know that has been doing the same thing.

I am not a frugal squirrel kind of guy. I went there once and that was it. 95% of the people that post here are within a 2 hour drive. I have been posting on another forum about this stuff for the last 9 years. The only problem is they all are scattered to the four corners of the states.

Just something to think about.

[sniper7]

I love this stuff, I used to go out on survival hikes with my father for one to two weeks at a time in the Colorado mountains. I would hope that in a crisis that the people would not forget that we are Americans. This thread sounds like it's us against them. If a man and his family needed 5to10 rounds of ammo I would make a trade if I could. Survival at it's core can be very harsh but let's not forget we are still "One Nation Under God". If the big crisis does happen the core of who we are as Americans should change.


I wish I had some of the same thoughts, and I partly do i guess, i would imagine a few people around me would help, be prepared and work together as a group.
A lot of my family and friends have all said they would come to me in a SHTF situation.
I look at Haiti, new Orleans etc and what those people did and can only hope it would be a little better here but more than likely we would see some of the same stuff...just comes down to how desperate the situation is I guess.

[ChunkyMonkey]

I agree. I have seen it within my neighborhood during and after the 2001 attack and 2007 blizzard. Smaller community tends to stick together much better too. I tried to maintain relationship with my neighbors and do trades whenever I could while conveying the message that we are here, we help when we can, and yet we are carrying big sticks too. [Tooth]

[jerrymrc]

A lot of my family and friends have all said they would come to me in a SHTF situation.


And I have tried to get my Family and friends to at least prepare a little. I have one friend that is a member here that has started. All the kids are over 21 and do not live at home. They all say the same thing.

I mentioned that if something does happen and the camper is gone they are on there own with what is left. The way the one boy and his family is the month worth of food that I leave will be gone in a week.

[sniper7]

And I have tried to get my Family and friends to at least prepare a little. I have one friend that is a member here that has started. All the kids are over 21 and do not live at home. They all say the same thing.

I mentioned that if something does happen and the camper is gone they are on there own with what is left. The way the one boy and his family is the month worth of food that I leave will be gone in a week.


Yeah i wonder about my family and friends as well. I know my best friend would be okay, I would definitely have to save my sister and her husband...they at least would have food, but she only have a MKII pistol.

That is funny about all the food disappearing! Sounds like they need some practice on rationing![Beer]

[Troublco]

I think that's one thing a lot of people don't give a lot of thought to. Preparation is great, but having supplies, weapons, ammo, that sort of thing doesn't help you if you don't change your mindset as well. The month's worth of food being gone in a week is a perfect example. As soon as it becomes a problem, you need to start planning on how you're going to make what you have last as long as you can, how you're going to add to it (hunting, gathering, etc) and get an idea of what you need for your activity level.

[bellavite1]

I hate to sound like an asshole but...
This is a non-problem:
I have guns and ammo and no food + you have food and no ammo = tough shit!
I will do whatever I have to to survive.

[ChunkyMonkey]

I used to think that way.. until I realize those who are well-prepare with food and supplies are the ones who are well prepare with protection also. [Beer]

[jerrymrc]

I hate to sound like an asshole but...
This is a non-problem:
I have guns and ammo and no food + you have food and no ammo = tough shit!
I will do whatever I have to to survive.

You me be hard pressed to find your target. I just wonder how many challenges you may go through to find the people with no ammo.
Just a thought.;)

[TFOGGER]

...certain snack foods that can survive long term storage without refrigeration.



I could SO be the Twinkie King!

[theGinsue]

Anyone here consider plant seeds? What happens when the existing food is all eaten?

[SSChameleon]

Anyone here consider plant seeds? What happens when the existing food is all eaten?

I'm going to eat nothing but corn, it's recyclable.

[theGinsue]

Perhaps, but I don't want to be the one to pick it out of the .... well, you know.

[ChadAmberg]

I hate to sound like an asshole but...
This is a non-problem:
I have guns and ammo and no food + you have food and no ammo = tough shit!
I will do whatever I have to to survive.

Actually it would be a problem. At least 25% of the population owns guns. When you work it out, it comes out to most families own at least a single firearm. Saying that they "won't have ammo" is setting up an unrealistic situation. This strategy may work once for you, but won't happen twice.

BTW, meds are also going to be currency. Especially controlled substances like antibiotics and narcotic painkillers.

[theGinsue]

BTW, meds are also going to be currency. Especially controlled substances like antibiotics and narcotic painkillers.

I am very concerened with the med situation. I can't get more than a 90 supply of my blood pressure meds. If I don't take one every day, the next day my BP shoots through the roof and I get horrible headaches. This has put me in the ER a couple of times - as the attending said "Minutes away from a stroke".

I've considered the major SHTF situation and needing to visit a pharmacy to obtain a greater supply. I need them for basic survival.

[Irving]

You can go online and purchase a gallon can (sealed) that is packed full of various seeds. I think it costs like $60 though.

[theGinsue]

That sounds like a really good idea - to have several of those on hand.

Keep in mind that you'll need to grow enough food for your whole clan for an entire year.

Knowing how to prepare and store the food to safely last a year+ will be critical too.

[jerrymrc]

Colorado has to be the hardest place to grow stuff I have ever seen. Another thought. Anyone here have a garden at 8000'? I do know some stuff will not grow there but that is another thing to think about.

[Troublco]

Yeah, it's not like some places where almost all you have to do is toss seed on the ground and wait. It takes some real work here, and a good source of water.

[cowboykjohnson]

I hate to sound like an asshole but...
This is a non-problem:
I have guns and ammo and no food + you have food and no ammo = tough shit!
I will do whatever I have to to survive.
Come to take my food and I guarantee you'll leave with out a gun if you leave at all, is the mindset of most who have food.

[theGinsue]

Colorado has to be the hardest place to grow stuff I have ever seen. Another thought. Anyone here have a garden at 8000'? I do know some stuff will not grow there but that is another thing to think about.

I've considered that. One of my considered bug out locations isn't very defensible, but even in late October the area is still very green lush. Few locations in CO, especially in the mtn's where most of us are thinking to bug out, have this capability.

[cbs]

I live at 8,500ft and I grow potatoes carrots lettuce and onions. the fruit is hard to grow up here without a grean house.

[theGinsue]

How well do carrots store? I know that you can have potatoes and onions stored for a year without a problem - if you do it right.

[Beprepared]

Hey All, great conversation
Good book to start is James Wesley, Rawles [U]How to survive the end of the world as we know it[U] and his site survivalblog.com. This is a great addition to this site. As mentioned in another thread Water is the key. The city and the burbs will be a tough place within a week. OK bartering goods...Instant Coffee!!!!! Medicine, my wife is a nurse, we order a backup supply of NON-Narc meds form reputable oversees pharmacies. Know your neighbors and their SKILLS. At least buy a book on flora that can be foraged in your area. How long do you think the deer are going to last with your neighbors shooting all the local deer. Not to mention Denver metro, suburbs, and the Springs heading for the hills!!! At that point its all about the SQUIRRELS, and a good pellet gun!
I lived in the New Orleans area during Katrina. [Swim] I was north of the Lake and Metro area in the burbs. Most of the animals in the city did'n't want to leave there crack dealer. A few unfortunates although. Always keep your car toped off!!!! Gas was lean before the storm. Where there was power to pump gas the lines were hours long and rationed. The land line phones actually stood for 12 hrs.(amazing) Its hard to see your whole community living on MRE's and ER's. Although its funny watching everyone loose weight the first week because their hungry and working their tail off. Then get on an MRE diet 3 meals a day(6000+calories) gain weight and wonder why.

Please don't forget your Christian roots. There will be alot of people to be wary of. But alot more that will need charity and a hand up.

[cbs]

Ginsue I just finished off the last of my carrots. for the size of my garden verses family I have not stored long term yet. Last year we ate and gave away goods for almot seven months. Iv'e read you can store them in moist sand all winter.

[cbs]

Just so everybody who did'nt know,knows now. "I are no longer a newbie"[Tooth]

[theGinsue]

Please don't forget your Christian roots. There will be alot of people to be wary of. But alot more that will need charity and a hand up.

This has always been a matter of internal debate for me. Given that resources will be scarce, and any items of preparedness I have will need to be stretched to help my family survive, I am torn over providing to those who didn't have the foresight enough to prepare for themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I am a Christian and typically I believe in helping others where I can. In SHTF scenarios where I would need to rely on my preparations, even providing EFFORT to others would probably take something away from my loved ones.

This is a tough call, but I think I'd be inclined to point them in a better direction and send them on their way.

[theGinsue]

Ginsue I just finished off the last of my carrots. for the size of my garden verses family I have not stored long term yet. Last year we ate and gave away goods for almot seven months. Iv'e read you can store them in moist sand all winter.

Thanks for the info. Do you have any techniques that you've picked up through experience that have helped you to do so well growing items at your altitude?

[theGinsue]

Just so everybody who did'nt know,knows now. "I are no longer a newbie"[Tooth]

Hey; congrats! This is a good sign that you are truly participating in this site. Glad to have your inputs.

[jerrymrc]

Hey All, great conversation
Good book to start is James Wesley, Rawles [U]How to survive the end of the world as we know it[U] and his site survivalblog.com.

I have that and a few other of his. My patriots copy was signed by him. BTW has anybody noticed that this has become a popular forum?

[cbs]

some day I will be a zin master too!! as for the garden, I had to plant it with southern exposure,no shade. I use clay buster and peet moss to keep the soil rich. close to a stream in a valley the soil will be naturally rich. Covering the garden in early spring and late fall gets me another month of growing. The season is short but it can be done.

[theGinsue]

More good info cbs! Thank you.


BTW has anybody noticed that this has become a popular forum?

THat's because you run a good show Jerry - on matters that are important to folks like us.

[cbs]

I look at it like this, When it's time for war I will show them the gates of hell,but when It,s time for hope I will show them the gates to heavan and I believe they will both be entertwyind. "sp"

[cbs]

What do you guys think about this? After the shtf people ban up in groups. There will be old,mid,young men women and childern. The women will cook,[Tooth]repair gear and care for the childern. The old and middle men will keep order, scout and protect the clan. The young men will scout find trade items and food. Much like the Indians ran the tribe. each indavigual could bring skills and knowlege to a group. OR NOT!!! [ROFL1]

[cowboykjohnson]

I had a friends who grew a garden up around 8,000ft. They planted in pots and flower beds up against thier south facing wall. They said the heat from the wall gave them an extra month or so of growing season.

[Mtn.man]

our family is so big we will have our own group/tribe/gang.....

[BushMasterBoy]

Light sticks will be popular if the SHTF. Some even last eight hours. There are even IR light sticks you need night vision gear to see them though.

[Limited GM]

Light sticks will be popular if the SHTF. Some even last eight hours. There are even IR light sticks you need night vision gear to see them though.


Keep in mind these also have a shelf life...something I recently leaned after storing many for a decade+.[Dunno]

[flip]

Keep in mind these also have a shelf life...something I recently leaned after storing many for a decade+.[Dunno]

Yeah, but if you don't mind seeing in colored hues you can purchase tubes of the wrist sized ones for under a buck at target. I use these as reward night lights for my young ones. I keep them stocked and rotated. When it thaws I plan on introducing the boys to the joys of wilderness survival where these will help them. A very cheap form of emergency light that can be packed and used for numerous things.

Another point that could be brought up in this trade section that would be good food for thought... (excuse me if this has been brought up but I am new and have not read EVERY thread (yet)), anyone ever thought that some of us locals could participate in group buys together? You can find some real good deals when purchased in extreme bulk but few of us actually have the money to purchase a full year supply of things.

[Wulf202]

I am very concerened with the med situation. I can't get more than a 90 supply of my blood pressure meds. If I don't take one every day, the next day my BP shoots through the roof and I get horrible headaches. This has put me in the ER a couple of times - as the attending said "Minutes away from a stroke".

I've considered the major SHTF situation and needing to visit a pharmacy to obtain a greater supply. I need them for basic survival.
Just saying here but I took a flight once and they lost my luggage and I went to the doc and told them that my brand new fill was in that bag cause I got it filled on the way to the airport.... just saying.

[cbs]

I also need some meds,maybe on our way out of town we should hold up a wallgrean!!!!![ROFL2]