CCW Reality Check

[ronaldrwl]

OK, I just took my CCW class last night from a very good instructor, Daniel Brunner. That was very a informative evening and left me with a lot to think about. Mr. Brunner is a well seasoned man and can deliver a clear picture of what happens when you use your gun in self-defense. Since I don't have a dangerous job do I really want/need a CCW?

Things I'm thinking about:
> Finger Printed and on record with FBI.
> Some municipalities list CCW people automatically as “Persons of Interest”.
> Carry a loaded (chambered) gun. I don't even chamber my rifle when hunting until just before the shot.
> Highly recommends getting liability insurance to cover large lawyer fees, etc.
> There are so many places you can/can't carry and ways to get your self in trouble when carrying. You must be well informed and mindful of what you are doing to much higher degree than most of us non-carriers ever are.


Before the class my big concern was getting a comfortable fitting holster. Not so sure a CCW is right for me at all now.


Any thoughts?

[esaabye]

I think those are some very good points.

I have been flirting with the idea but when I really look at it I have almost zero part of my day when I could carry it, the majority of the time it would be locked in a car. Since I don't need a CCW to carry it in the car I have no reason for it.

[newracer]

Those are some things you have to consider. For me the ability to protect myself and my family if the need arises outweighs all of those.

[Irving]

> Finger Printed and on record with FBI.
> Some municipalities list CCW people automatically as “Persons of Interest”.
> Carry a loaded (chambered) gun. I don't even chamber my rifle when hunting until just before the shot.
> Highly recommends getting liability insurance to cover large lawyer fees, etc.
> There are so many places you can/can't carry and ways to get your self in trouble when carrying. You must be well informed and mindful of what you are doing to much higher degree than most of us non-carriers ever are.


Here's the way I think about these.

1) So? I've applied for law enforcement and have had to submit finger prints before. This should only be an issue if your finger prints show up at a crime scene. If your finger prints show up at a crime scene, your prints are going on record anyway.

2) This sucks, but it is part of the responsibility. Just because you are a person of interest, doesn't mean you'll have guns shoved in your face all the time. This is one of those questions you really need to think about though. Why are you applying for CCW? Is it for your protection or for your comfort and convenience? Which is more important?

3) You're not supposed to chamber your rifle while hunting, so that is normal. With a proper holster, the trigger will be completely covered and you'll have nothing to worry about. Unless you are carrying an antique revolver, your gun won't go off if dropped. I remember you are new to pistols though, and you will become more comfortable with them in time. Just keep in mind that there is being comfortable, and being complacent.

4) I'm not yet sure how I feel about the liability insurance issue yet. I'm under the impression that joining groups like the NRA can get you some limited coverage, but the NRA will throw you under the bus the second they think you might have done something that won't get you cleared 100%.

5) Carrying isn't really difficult. The only place you can possibly carry where you are not allowed, and will get you in BIG trouble is k-12 schools. All other places it's not allowed have security and metal detectors in place at all entrances. Those same places are likely to hold your gun for you while you are inside. Otherwise, if someone spots your piece while you are at the mall or something and the cops show up, you just need to leave the property based on the owner's wishes.

[SPIRITXXSANCTI]

I recently took the CCW class too. I had/have many of the same feelings you're pondering. Here is my take on it, I would be very happy if my CCW never came out for the purpose of using it. It's almost like an auto insurance policy, I am a safe driver I don't ever intend to get in an accident, I drive almost everyday, but in my 32 years I have been in two accident's. One did not cost my insurance company much the other would have wiped me out financially. However I had insurance and they were there to bail me out. It may not be for you, but for me I walk my dogs around the riverfront area downtown at night (10PM+) the river creepers (Homeless) freak me out. That was the main reason I took the CCW.

[BigBear]

Those are some things you have to consider. For me the ability to protect myself and my family if the need arises outweighs all of those.


+1 X infinity.

There are always things to consider. You'll just have to make up your own mind.

For my two cents, I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

[wyzardd]

> Finger Printed and on record with FBI.
I figure everyone that wants it already has me on file. Been printed off and on for nearly 20 years, so that didn't bother me.

> Some municipalities list CCW people automatically as “Persons of Interest”.
The only time a cop ever mentioned it was when he saw my open wallet with my license visible. Just asked if I was carrying at the moment but seemed more concerned with the Gerber LMF on the seat next to me.

> Carry a loaded (chambered) gun. I don't even chamber my rifle when hunting until just before the shot.
Training and familiarity with your firearm takes care of that. When I started it freaked me out to carry a 1911 in condition 1, so I kept to revolvers until I got a few classes under my belt.


> Highly recommends getting liability insurance to cover large lawyer fees, etc.
Knowing a lawyer ("on retainer" I think they call it) might not be a bad idea, but being broke is frequently better than being dead.

> There are so many places you can/can't carry and ways to get your self in trouble when carrying. You must be well informed and mindful of what you are doing to much higher degree than most of us non-carriers ever are.
I've run into very few places that I worry about carrying. Government buildings with metal detectors and my kids school are the only ones I make sure I'm unarmed before entering. If it's concealed properly, it's not a problem.
I rarely frequent drinking establishments, so that's not an issue with me.

I know several people who got their permit "just in case" and ended up carrying for defense against bears and mountain lions instead of bad guys.

[Irving]

I remember when I first started having these same concerns and would spend ALL day at work considering things just like this. This is an important part of becoming a CCW holder. You'll notice that for a while after this class, you'll come across all kinds of new scenarios to consider.

One that I particularly remember is someone on another site asking about carrying in a movie theater. They were worried that they would print and a cop would see them. So you have to ask yourself, if your biggest concern is that an officer will spot your piece, and not if you'll have to use it or not, do you need to be carrying at all?

When you first start carrying, it will feel like you're carrying a flashing light and siren in your belt that everyone is staring at, but no one notices at all. After about a week you stop worrying if you are printing, but you will pretty much ALWAYS be mindful of your clothes and that they are not pulled up to expose your gun. I recommend carrying around your home for a while to get a feel for it.

[sniper7]

Biggest thing to think about is your own life and your family's life. I don't live in a bad part of town, I work out of town (where i truly need the CCW), and when I am home I frequent mostly the same places.
BUT, you never know when you might need it. In these economic time people are becoming more and more desperate, which could lead to you becoming a victim.

I haven't looked into CCW insurance but i belong to the NRA, RMGO and being alive and dealing with lawyers and the court system is much more preferable than being dead, not seeing my family again and not having the chance to enjoy my life.

As for the fingerprints...I had to get them for my job, so not a big deal there. Besides, if you think you are NOT on a list already, you might think again.


If you are concerned about carrying a loaded gun, you should get more training. I carry loaded, always have, always will. It is something you will just develop comfort with over time. I highly recommend that if you get your CCW that you do the same. Time is of the essence and that short about of time it takes to chamber a round can be the difference between life and death.

Just ask Bigbear how quickly things can come up on you. You will appreciate his story and probably want to get your CCW a little quicker because of it! I want my fiance to be as well trained and heads up as his wife![Beer]

[Irving]

You'll catch a lot of flak for being hesitant about carrying chambered, but don't worry about it because a lot of people worry about it at first. So try not to be offended when people act like you're being ridiculous when you bring it up. Sometimes people forget that they used to be in your shoes once upon a time.

I kind of jumped in with both feet about carrying, but if you really feel nervous about it, start small. Wear your gun in your house, and walk to the mail box with it. Go to a convenience store or the movie store. One step at a time.

I realize you don't have the permit yet by the way.

[ChadAmberg]

Hey, I took my class from Dan too...

You're looking at two different things in reality. Getting a CCW is one thing, and carrying a weapon is another.

Having your fingerprints on file should not be a big deal. Hell, in the papers know it's coming out that lots of states are keeping babies DNA on file forever.

So you're probably in El Paso County since the PDI class last night was there? If so, get your CCW now and the sheriff won't put you in the drivers license database as a person of interest.

Now, as for carrying a firearm, you can ease yourself into it. Spend a few weeks carrying only when you're ready for it, such as going out to get gas and a cheeseburger at night. You'll find you'll get much more comfortable after just a few trips out.

[ronaldrwl]

Wow, what a great forum.
Thanks for the feedback. It's great to hear from your experiences. It helps to see so many went through the same thought process. All the original reasons for wanting a CCW are still valid. I guess I'm just going though a little 'buyers remorse'.

Actually I heard Dan was good and took his class in the Springs even though I live in Littleton.

[newracer]

I used to feel a little wierd when I first started to carry, now I feel wierd when I don't. :D

[BuffCyclist]

So you're probably in El Paso County since the PDI class last night was there? If so, get your CCW now and the sheriff won't put you in the drivers license database as a person of interest.

Pardon the ignorance, but how would him waiting to apply for his CCW cause the Sheriff to put him in the database as a person of interest?

[MadRabbit]

I walked out of the house to go to town about a week ago and when doing the infamous "guy pocket check" before climbing in the truck realized I had an empty holster on my belt. Walking back up to the house, my wife was opening the front door and coming out with my pistol for me. It really becomes normal pretty quickly.

Your concerns only lead me to believe that you are responsible enough to carry a pistol should you choose to do so. Ultimately however, that choice is yours to make.


I used to feel a little wierd when I first started to carry, now I feel wierd when I don't. :D

[68Charger]

> There are so many places you can/can't carry and ways to get your self in trouble when carrying. You must be well informed and mindful of what you are doing to much higher degree than most of us non-carriers ever are.?

This is probably the only reason why I haven't gotten a CCW yet.. and it's really not all the different places, but my work.. they have a sign at the entrance which states that it's unlawful to carry a weapon on property.

Can I carry at work (a private entity, not a government job), even if my employer/supervisor has banned guns on the property? NO.
18-12-214 Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions.
(5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

now if a shooting were to occur here, they won't ever get me back in the building & may open themselves up to all kinds of civil liability- since they don't have any security measures in place to ensure criminal carry won't occur..
if something even happens to an employee on the way to/from work, could a lawyer make a case that it could have been prevented if they were allowed to at least carry in their car?

I have little other recourse in this matter, since it's not a public facility... and they're not required to employ me.. unless they create an unsafe work environment, which is next to impossible to establish when nothing has happened.

[BigBear]

What is the wording on the sign?

At my work it says the "no open carry of firearms or other deadly weapons". I asked my boss about this and he said concealed is fine on property. Just no open carry. Fine with me.

He also admitted to me that a lot of places post teh sign for insurance reasons, etc.... if someone ever has a problem, you'll just be asked to leave, no harm no foul in most cases. Always best to ask however.

[Irving]

What are the chances that someone would discovering you carrying at work?

[cowboykjohnson]

I walked out of the house to go to town about a week ago and when doing the infamous "guy pocket check" before climbing in the truck realized I had an empty holster on my belt. Walking back up to the house, my wife was opening the front door and coming out with my pistol for me. It really becomes normal pretty quickly.

Your concerns only lead me to believe that you are responsible enough to carry a pistol should you choose to do so. Ultimately however, that choice is yours to make.

+1

I do the same pocket check everyday and if something is mising, wheter it's my wallet, pocket knife, or pistol I notice right away and have to go get it.

[newracer]

Pardon the ignorance, but how would him waiting to apply for his CCW cause the Sheriff to put him in the database as a person of interest?

It is the sheriff's decision on weather or not list people in the database. The current sheriff in El Paso county does not put CCW holder into the database. If another sheriff is elected he might choose to.

[BuffCyclist]

It is the sheriff's decision on weather or not list people in the database. The current sheriff in El Paso county does not put CCW holder into the database. If another sheriff is elected he might choose to.

Ah, thanks. I guess that makes sense. I was under the impression that if he waited like a week he would be put in the database as the date of issue for his certification required to get the ccw would not coincide with the application for ccw with the sheriffs office.

[TFOGGER]

Ah, thanks. I guess that makes sense. I was under the impression that if he waited like a week he would be put in the database as the date of issue for his certification required to get the ccw would not coincide with the application for ccw with the sheriffs office.

The training cert is valid for 10 years, so this is not an issue.

I've had my CCW permit for a little over a year, but rarely carry, mostly because I spend 90 % of my time either at home or at work, and I have readily accessible arms at both locations. I do carry pretty much everywhere else (vehicles, out shopping with the wife, out to dinner). The main thing I noticed is that carrying makes you MUCH more aware of your surroundings, and as other people have mentioned, I find myself running a lot of "what if..." scenarios in my mind. I look for exit lanes in restaurants, sit where I can see the door, assess possible avenues of attack. I never carry when I am drinking alcohol, and vice versa, due to liability concerns. If I am forced to use my weapon, I don't wanna have to face the "Were you drinking on the night in question?" line of questioning from a prosecuting attorney.

[ronaldrwl]

OK, I'm in. Just got finger printed and queued. In 90 days and not 1 minute sooner I should have my permit.

One interesting note is in the directions they give you they try to persuade you not to apply. Stating that it's legal to CC without a permit in your home, car and your business. Is it true you can CC in your car?

[Irving]

Yep. I've been stopped at a DUI check point and carrying in an IWB in my car with no permit. I told them when they wanted me to step out of the vehicle. No issues.

[ChadAmberg]

Pardon the ignorance, but how would him waiting to apply for his CCW cause the Sheriff to put him in the database as a person of interest?

Right now Sheriff Makita makes it a point that he will not put you in the database. But he's not running for re-election, so we don't know if the next Sheriff of El Paso County will have the same ethics.

[gnihcraes]

Mr. Brunner teaches a good class in my opinion.

I need to protect my family, no thanks to some members of my family bringing felons into their home. I carry any and everywhere possible within the laws. I don't even think much about the CCW, like someone else posted, I feel weird without it now.

I recently dropped my weapon at home, whoops. No bang. No worries. Was more worried about it falling on my toe than anything.

I believe I'm more aware than ever before just because of the ccw.

Go for it, later on you might not have the cash to apply for the permit and want to carry for some reason.

[SSChameleon]

I took Bruner's class too. He is a good instructor. I know just how you feel because I felt the same way after his class. I think it's good to think about everything that goes into CCW and not just rush to stick a gun in your pants.

That said, I have appreciated my CCW and had no problem getting fingerprinted (I needed it for my job) and since I sell liability insurance and handle liability claims I am all for getting the policy.

I've seen how fast a guy calls the lawyer when a dog bites his kid. I can only imagine how fast a dog owner would call if I shot his dog for attacking my boy.

It gets easier to carry chambered. Once you get comfortable having your gun with you it will be easier to imagining when you will need it. And once you imagine needing it you will naturally want it chambered when you draw it.

Like I said, Dan does a good job making you think about what you are actually doing when you apply for your CCW. I want my wife to take his class.