View Full Version : Help me out here
im 19 years old and i know ive still got a lot of life to live
but ive been all my life thinking of joining the military but was unsure because i wanted to go into some sort of special ops or somthing of the sort (of coarse who doesnt when their a kid right!) and we all know you dont just jump in and start at the top , it takes hard work to get there, any ways ive went in and talked with recruiter's and due to a tattoo above the collar line on my neck they thought it wouldnt be possible for me to get in (its not vulgar in any way , they said if you get tats after you join no big deal but before you join it is.)
i geuss what im getting at is i really want to do some type of Military police work or armed security (say rocky flats type stuff idk)
but it seems if you have no military backround you have no job
ive read about blackwater, triple canopy, and globle dynamics
but i am stuck in a bit of a rut
im wondering do i go train train train until im elite ?
im curious what steps i need to take to do somthing like this if its possible to do it private sector ? ( I DONT MEAN I WANT TO JOIN BLACKWATER OR ANY OF THOOSE COMPANIES, NOR DO I HAVE THE SKILL YET. DONT GET ME WRONG IM NOT TURNING THEM DOWN, I JUST DONT KNOW ENOUGH RIGHT NOW)
any info helps, feel free to hate
thanks
Why do you want to do this type of work?
its funny that you ask that, ive allways been fascinated with firearms and their history , just as i was with cars
but right after i posted this i was just thinking of deleting it, im really interested in the security side of it, but im so grateful to not be in war and not in combat, but there is a side of me that says thats what i want
i know its one thing to say you want to do all of this stuff and totaly different when your acctually doing it, and acctually put in theese situations, for instance you could sit here and say it would be great to be out there fighting the war , but when your stuck behind a wall of fire with only a wall in front of you, and your gun is not working proprely thats scary buissness, or death
idk i have a lot to think about
Maybe you could go to college while you think about it. Right after college would have been the perfect time for me to go. Now it's too late.
98% of most security jobs are really lame by the way. Even if you are armed security, you aren't going to be pistol whipping bad guys and drawing down on old ladies or anything.
Hmmm, I dunno, I'm not in that line of work.
You might consider military special forces, like Green Berets, Seals or USAF PJs, but you need to be one tough & committed dude.
I do know this much though- it's better to be an Officer than enlisted most of the time -
On average there are 7 support personnel to 1 line person,be it Marine,Soldier or Sailor.
Air Force is a lot higher,think of all the Air Force personnel vs AF pilots.
What I'm saying is there are a lot of jobs out there,other then a GRUNTASOURUS REXSIT.
I was always thankful of those that supported us.
I'd say get the tat removed and sign up. I really wish I had joined the military for a lot of different reasons. Discipline and being part of something bigger than just "me" when I was in my 20s would have made a different, and I think better person, or at least sooner. The benefits after having served are pretty good as well.
I have two friends that have gone in recently and got their choices: one is now Airborne and the other is AF special forces medic. I was looking at Sapper, Nuke, or Navy pilot when I was going to Mines and was within just a signature of going in.
While I was ill-informed and non-exposed to fire-fighting in my teens, that also would have been a good way to go for many of the same reasons.
GunTroll
02-05-2010, 20:50
............
I do know this much though- it's better to be an Officer than enlisted most of the time -
Until your an 0-4 or above and your disconnected from the "men" and knee deep in paper work. The best officers in my book were the ones who were enlisted first. They knew the men better than west point grads or ROTC types.
OP- This is a classic scenario of tattoo regret. Even if you don't know it. Now its holding you back from potential dreams. As said earlier, get it removed and go forward with the military. You will get out of it what you put in. I enjoyed it for the most part.
KevDen2005
02-05-2010, 21:21
Go to college, get the tattoo removed, then join if you are still interested.
College and National Guard or something similar could get you both experiences at once (If you get your tat removed).
I can not express how important college is...I have tons of experience (which makes me sound a little arrogant) but I am still working on school, so many more doors are opened when you have college done.
DD977GM2
02-05-2010, 22:25
The tattoo lie the recruiter told is just that, a lie. I had tats on my hands before joining and did just fine.
As for joining, security is a boring fucking job. It isnt anything like the movies. Its standing a lonely watch , usually by yourself in some bullshit base and no enjoyment what so ever. You woul dbasically be going into any branch as an MP type job.
Go join the Navy and be a Gunner's Mate.
1. Its the reason the Navy exists....blow shit up and shoot guns
2. GM is a source rating for ANY spec ops
3. GMs onboard ship are the first the selected for the boarding teams
4. You get to shoot all the guns onboard ship a lot fucking more then any
of your shipmates onboard ship
5. Your one of the selected first for shipboard security details, classes and
training the crew on shipboard security.
At any rate, Im biased as I am a former active duty GM and loved my job.
GM holds the best amount of respect outside of the spec ops community for the Navy!!!!!!!!![M2][M2][M2][M2]
Batteriesnare
02-05-2010, 22:32
Go to college. Perhaps join ROTC, but go to college. So much changed for me in my viewpoints and thinking ability and capacity from the time I was 19 to now (21, graduating college in May), and I'm thankful for the experience. You'll learn a lot about yourself and a lot about who you want to be. The military will be there when you get out, but you may not have the opportunity to go to college later.
Just my .02, please keep in mind I have not had the honor of serving in our armed forces. Good luck with your decision!
Troublco
02-05-2010, 22:49
Until your an 0-4 or above and your disconnected from the "men" and knee deep in paper work. The best officers in my book were the ones who were enlisted first. They knew the men better than west point grads or ROTC types.
My experience is that the prior enlisted officers go one of two ways - they are either the best officers, or they are the absolute worst.
People seem to either love or hate the military. Generally, I love what I do and I like the people I work with. I get to go places and do things most people don't. Granted, a lot of people don't want to go to those places or do those things, but I wouldn't trade those experiences for anything.
Don't let what you see in the movies and on TV fool you. Security jobs are pretty dull and boring. Military Police positions are a bit different, but some folks are cut out for that sort of work and some are not; there's still lots of boring involved. Imagine sitting in a bunker for hours on end watching the same patch of ground in front of you. Some can do it, some can't.
If you really want to join the military, I say go for it. But the thing to remember is, it isn't a job you just quit if you change your mind and decide you don't like it. You dedicate yourself for 4 or 6 years, and there you go. And getting in is the hardest part. It's much harder to get in than to stay in, generally. But sometimes if you don't know what you want to do, it gives you a chance to do something while you get some experience and maybe have a chance to make up your mind about what you want to do long term. And, in the bargain, you can get some help with paying for College while you earn a paycheck with the added bonus of serving your country.
Tattoos are not what they once were. There are pretty strict limitations to them now, and they're not flexible on them. You'll have to decide what you want to do with yours once you decide whether you really want to get in or not. The military in general is changing. Fighting, overdoing alcohol, things like that are not tolerated anymore. One DUI is a huge problem, and two is an automatic discharge. And not an honorable discharge, either, at least in the Air Force. I know a couple kids who had DUI's (underage) before they came in, and they had to have waivers out the wazoo to get in.
It's a big decision, but as long as you do what's right for you, pick a direction, make a plan, and stick with it, you should do OK. And don't discount the Reserves or National Guard. They are good choices too, with different options than Active Duty. You might look into them as well, see what might work better for you. More options are always better.
Here's some advise from someone who is contracting and was in USASOC:
1. Get the tattoo removed. Whether you go into the military or not, employers do not like to see them. With competition for jobs being very tough right now, looking professional is playing more of a role than ever before.
2. Spend some time in college. EVERY soldier wants to have more college credits and never gets the time to do so. It keeps getting put off until later. Do it now, even if you don't finish.
3. Go talk to actual soldiers/marines/seamen about their jobs. Skip the lines the recruiters tell you. They are reading a script. You will learn more in 5 minutes about the job from someone who actually does it than all day with a recruiter.
4. To get the "cool" jobs, you have to pay. That means 8-10 years in special opreations and several combat deployments (just look at the requirements for Xe, TC, SOC, etc.). That's halfway to retirement just to start contracts with no guarantee in longetivity, no pension, no benefits. Don't forget the bad knees and back from miles of road marching, hard landings from bad jumps, and years of ignoring injuries to complete the mission. Remember, as an operator you are like a favorite shirt: worn everyday until the holes and smell are unbearable then tossed aside and replaced with a new one.
If you want to persue that path, then do it 110% and don't look back. It's worth every second of it. Just remember that it takes intestinal fortitude and dedication beyond what most are willing to give. Seriously look at what you want and what you're willing to give before making a decision.
Hope this helps...
huge huge help all of you!
i cant thank you enough
IMO there is nothing more honorable than serving your country in the military....I constantly think I should have gone in to be a pilot (what i do now). I will more than likely join the air national guard later on down the road.
Security can be extremely boring but it can be extremely important. the boring will outweigh the important about 10000/1. My best friend lost his job as an electrician, has been a security guard at the CDC for about the last year....very very very boring work, very very very odd hours (4-midnight, sometimes 4pm-4am, then in the same week 12-8, or 6-4...he just never knows (he is also the junior guy).
His Dad worked at Rocky flats for I think 20 years...never had much of anything happen, they got to shoot some cool guns, got paid pretty good and overall made the best of it.
What you need to think about it what you want to do in life, if you want to have a family, be there for them, or be a stag for a while. If you choose the later I highly recommend the military...even then those guys make families work, you just have to find the right woman.
if you go in the military, stick it out until you get retirement. I best almost every guy on here that is a vet would tell you they are happy they made it to their retirement or wish they would have. (of course there are exception though).
If anything, go to a cheap junior college that could potentially transfer credits to another college you might be interested in, take a semesters worth of classes to think about things but keep working toward your future. Even look into Metro. Great school and lots of options.
In the end, it is your decision, if you go to the military do it because you want to and because you are going to serve a high cause than yourself.
HandKBRad
02-06-2010, 01:17
You might consider military special forces, like Green Berets, Seals or USAF PJs, but you need to be one tough & committed dude.
One thing I would add is I’ve seen many tough & committed guys not make the cut to get in SF. If you want SF you will need to be in above average physical shape and swim like a fish.
I’ve done security in and out of the Marines. Security is super boring and most of the time it is uneventful. Even if something happens its not usually big. But for that mater Infantry is boring too. In combat arms there is a ton of down time. There is also a lot of pt, time in the field, weapons cleaning, and just plane cleaning in general. There is a lot of practice and repetition as there should be. As the saying goes you fight like you train. Fast roping, SPIE rigging, room clearing, live fire ranges sound like fun and they are a lot of fun. But you will do it all day until it is not fun.
Like others have said talk with current service members. Talk to people that are in the branches and MOS that you are interested in. If it is still what you want to do then go for it.
Even with all the suck I miss being in. Serving is one of the best thing I’ve done in my life.
wow thanks again guys, honestly i have never had more helpful caring people on a forum and now that its a real life situation im very glad i joined this forum!
i think you guys have helped me not only shape my future but also let me mold it'
i strongly belive this is my future, serving this great country i can call my own, and fighting (or cleaning) for America!
im going to start my training the day after super bowl, im going to start a very intense eating habbit and get to 210 or more (no fatty here) and start high elevation climbs in the flatirons and flaggstaff, as well as weighted climbs (using back packs with weights or tons of water etc) swiming, intense workouts etc etc etc
Im going to phisicaly and emotionaly and mentaly strip my self down from my everyday habbits, and build only habbits that will help me survive, im going to make my self a complete nutcase about strength in all aspects
along with looking into college!
i honestly would have never gone to college until now!
thanks so much i cannot thank you guys enough!
The tattoo line is BS, They are testing your willingness to join. I also have a tattoo on my neck and multiple times was rejected. Go back and practically camp there, show them you want to join.
There are ALOT of waivers they can apply for to get you in. (felonies, tattoos, disabilities etc)
Dont fail that test. Sounds as if you would do well in our military
theGinsue
02-07-2010, 00:44
I'd say get the tat removed and sign up. I really wish I had joined the military for a lot of different reasons. Discipline and being part of something bigger than just "me" when I was in my 20s would have made a different, and I think better person, or at least sooner. The benefits after having served are pretty good as well.
If you feel that this is what you really want to do, then do it. Windows of opportunity are too short. Like MarkCO pointed out, there are a lot of advantages to joining the military - but really give your decisio plenty of thought; especially about what career field you want to work in. Have an alternate career field field choice in mind in case you don't get into a Special Operations field as these positions are limited and difficult to get into.
Until your an 0-4 or above and your disconnected from the "men" and knee deep in paper work. The best officers in my book were the ones who were enlisted first. They knew the men better than west point grads or ROTC types.
MOST of the time this is correct. I experienced a few prior-enlisted officers that felt like they finally got to get revence on every enlisted member (esp. NCO's) that they felt ever wronged them - usually by proxy.
I see a lot of folks urging you to go to college, get your degree and then pursue your career choice. For the most part, I agree with this. The value of a college education can not be underestimated. Even if you do join the military Special Ops, or any other area, or even go into law enforcement, some day you may be injured and your days in that career are over - then what? What if you get tired of that career path? There aren't a lot of career choices for a Special Op's troop outside of the military.
Have a plan. Have a backup plan.
If you get the tat removed and join the military without a degree, take every opportunity to earn that degree while you are serving.
DD977GM2
02-07-2010, 04:17
One thing I learned from the guys who i knew who made it to become SEALS, was they not only were committed to winning and being the best int he world, they had the mentality of if it meant dying in order to win, then that was acceptable to them.
Everyone it seems wants to go SF when they join, just a few who actually go past the thinking and actually do it.
Hmmm, I dunno, I'm not in that line of work.
You might consider military special forces, like Green Berets, Seals or USAF PJs, but you need to be one tough & committed dude.
I do know this much though- it's better to be an Officer than enlisted most of the time -
what type of classes should i be looking at?
what would you recomend going to school for? whats going to be most beneficial for this line of work,
thanks guys!
One thing I noticed that you asked, and no one has commented on yet, is that you thought that you could just go out and train and become "elite" so the military would want you. I've got zero military experience, but I'm pretty sure that you don't train FOR the military, you train IN the military. It is not a job that has many prerequisites and no prior experience is required. I once told someone that I didn't think that I had anything to offer the military, and they corrected me by pointing out that you don't bring skills to the forces, you learn skills FROM the forces. Something to keep in mind.
It would be a complete waste for you to try and go to college and try to pick a major that you think would make the military like you more.
Troublco
02-07-2010, 15:15
One thing I noticed that you asked, and no one has commented on yet, is that you thought that you could just go out and train and become "elite" so the military would want you. I've got zero military experience, but I'm pretty sure that you don't train FOR the military, you train IN the military. It is not a job that has many prerequisites and no prior experience is required. I once told someone that I didn't think that I had anything to offer the military, and they corrected me by pointing out that you don't bring skills to the forces, you learn skills FROM the forces. Something to keep in mind.
It would be a complete waste for you to try and go to college and try to pick a major that you think would make the military like you more.
This is pretty accurate, but there are always a few exceptions. The one that stands out in my mind is if you're an MD or an RN, they'll fall all over themselves to get you in. And med folks (officer type) don't have to do the same training as other military folks. They have their own training regimen, if you can call it that. WAYYYY more laid back than normal.
Otherwise, no, you don't really train for the military. Depending on your ASVAB scores, you may be able to specify your MOS/AFSC but to move on from, say, Infantry to Rangers to Special Forces you have to volunteer for the schools and in some cases have recommendations by NCOs and CO's. It also varies by service. From what I've heard from friends in the Army, it's reasonably easy to volunteer for these schools and work up. Air Force doesn't work the same way. If you want to be a Combat Controller or ParaRescue (PJ), you have to get into it to start with. It's much harder to switch once you're in.
And the part about having the attitude and mentality is spot on. If you want to do any sort of SF/SOC stuff you absolutely have to dedicate yourself to it. You have to want it more than anything else. You have to want it when you're cold, wet, sore, hurt, hungry, so tired you can barely think straight, and getting screamed at by someone who's been through it, been there and back, and knows why you have to be able to put up with it. There are times that your general purpose support folks deal with cold, wet, hungry, tired, hurting, and still having to work to get the job done when you've already been busting your rear for the last 12 hours. So if you want to be an operator, you better be (as Sniper7 put it) tougher than woodpecker lips.
Incidentally, don't let which service you're looking at fool you. I was once told by an acquaintance who was a retired Navy SEAL (He swore he'd say I was lying if I ever repeated this, but here it is) that Air Force PJ's were the most highly trained special ops folks he knew. If I remember correctly, the PJ school is 2 years long. Air Force Combat Controllers live and deploy with the Army. They might as well be Army, except for the USAF and different stripes on their uniforms. They get right up there in the thick of it.
So make sure you know what you want and you want it badly enough to do whatever it takes. If you do, awesome. If not, you might wind up wishing you had done something else.
i might have been unclear, i understand that the army etc trains you
but if you go in with no experience, run 20 minuet miles and can barley breath after a push up or pull up
your not gonna last through the training
now if i train as hard or harder mabey even less hard then the army etc and it comes time to join and i go straight into training, and can do it with ease (dont get me wrong im not saying i can do it easy or that its easy. its not i know.)
it seems to me that is a better option, prepare for tomorrows war today with training
theres only one thing tho, im unsure if military is my "shit" so to speak i want to serve my country, i want to be the best of the best, its not me im unsure of its the situation i geuss
Troublco
02-07-2010, 16:30
No question, if you're in great shape you're going to get through the training WAYYYY easier than someone who isn't. If you're able to do the pushups, situps, pullups, running, and so on going in, you're going to be that much better off when you get done. But the point of the more special training is to push EVERYONE to the breaking point, so they can see if you have what it takes to persevere when you get to that point. They want to see if you have the heart to push through and accomplish the mission. The SEALs have a couple sayings that I've always remembered. 1 - the only easy day was yesterday. And my personal favorite - Second place is first loser. The other purpose for all the training is doing is getting you into shape to do the job, training you for the job, and developing the notion that it's all about teamwork. And it is.
It's good that you're thinking about it before you run in to a recruiter's office and sign up. I will say, though, that most everyone I know who is in or has been in the military thinks it's one of the best things they've ever done. Every close friend I have either is or was military. But that's a decision you have to make for yourself.
how would one get into a security position without military??
im assuming if its armed you need to be 21
but do you need a concealed and carry licence?
what type of schooling would you need? if any?
would you go through classes before even applying? (by classes i mean and firearms training etc)
You can be an armed security guard in Boulder after fulling the extreme requirement of watching 12, one hour videos.
^^ thanks for the help
idk about that, seems wayy wayyy too hard, i should stick with the military
HAHAHAHAHAH
thats funny
thanks
If you'r looking for a physical training schedule, go to the recruiter and ask for the SOPC schedule. It's a 30 train up to prepare students for SF. It's not easy, but it covers all of the core requirements for any of the branches: running, pushups, pullups, situps, road marching, etc. I'll try to find it online for you, if not I have it in my TM's; I'll scan it & send it to you. Another option is the P90X workouts. Other than missing the running, it's the closest to morning PT that i've seen. Don't forget to give yourself enough time to prepeare. The reason most schools require 2-4 years of service as a prerequisite is to allow you 2-4 years to get into shape. Proper physical conditioning doesn't happen overnight, it takes years. Just stay motivated and build the "never quit" mentality now.
Check out the Coast Guard. They do stuff all the time all over the world.
thats awesome! let me know if you can find it , that would help out a ton!
thanks! your the man
If you'r looking for a physical training schedule, go to the recruiter and ask for the SOPC schedule. It's a 30 train up to prepare students for SF. It's not easy, but it covers all of the core requirements for any of the branches: running, pushups, pullups, situps, road marching, etc. I'll try to find it online for you, if not I have it in my TM's; I'll scan it & send it to you. Another option is the P90X workouts. Other than missing the running, it's the closest to morning PT that i've seen. Don't forget to give yourself enough time to prepeare. The reason most schools require 2-4 years of service as a prerequisite is to allow you 2-4 years to get into shape. Proper physical conditioning doesn't happen overnight, it takes years. Just stay motivated and build the "never quit" mentality now.
Don't take this the wrong way, but... Stop thinking about it, and do it. Go to the recruiter and get tested, see if you have what it takes up stairs, and raise you right hand. You have to want it, really want it. If your thinking about it, I’m not sure you have the drive to make it. Stop thinking about working out, you’ll get a lot of that, and you may get injured. Just do it, or do something else.
As for the tats, it can limit the missions you can go on. Don't get any, or have them removed.
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