View Full Version : The best all around three gun battery
Troublco
02-07-2010, 16:19
Jerrymrc's one SHTF gun thread bothered me a bit, because trying to decide what one gun I'd take is like saying "Which one of your kids would you save?". Besides, there are folks here don't have too many, or are in the process of acquiring their basic set. Also, over the years I've been asked more than once by people serious about the subject. These are folks who want to have what they need, but they don't have a ton of extra money to get exactly what they want, or think they need, or whatever. So I'm curious what everyone thinks would make the best three-gun battery for all around general purpose use.
Here are my thoughts -
1. Bolt action rifle, scope sighted with iron sights for backup. .308 or .30-06 caliber. Synthetic stock preferred.
2. Shotgun. 12 gauge pump, probably a Mossberg 500 series or Remington 870. A two barrel set preferred, one around 28" with changeable choke tubes and one 18-20" for other, close in work. Plastic stock so weather doesn't affect it.
3. Pistol. Stainless .357 revolver, 4 inch barrel with Pachmayr or Hogue grips.
I have my reasoning for these guns, mostly relating to simplicity and covering a wide range of functions. They're not perfect, but I was trying to cover the most territory possible with one of each basic variety of firearm.
[Tooth]
Gun #1 m14 type rifle. Hardly ever breaks, mags are relatively cheap, are very accurate, shoots 308, and can deliver one hell of a lot of fire power.[AR15]Can be used for hunting, suppressing fire and sniping. Its one hell of a rifle in my opinion. Its extremely reliable-see below photos-Not one malfuntion with 40mph winds and lots of dust blowing. It took a whole can of brake cleaner and lots of Q-tips to get it clean again.
Gun #2 12 gauge shot gun of some type. Not really picky but I have bad experience with Stoeger over/under. I have a mossberg 500 with the 28" barrel. No reason to go tactical on this one. Keep it in the traditional bird gun configuration especially when you have the m14. It would be used more for hunting than protection.
Gun #3 I would go with a semi auto handgun of something. Me personally would be a 1911. Ammo is common, hard hitting and for me the 1911 with a the hammer cocked is pretty scary looking thing.
http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo267/brycom1/dirtym14005.jpg
http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo267/brycom1/dirtym14004.jpg
SSChameleon
02-07-2010, 17:10
#1 something in 308/30-06. I would love the M14 if money was not an issue.
#2 12ga pump or O/U. Not picky as long as it works and is reliable.
#3 Reliable handgun in a popular caliber. G19 would be a good choice. It's reliable and there will be many like it floating around in case you get desperate and need to trade off mags/parts or if you need to trade for mags/ammo/parts.
It seems the three gun combo is rifle/shottie/handgun. More important the semantics of revolver vs. semi or pump vs. O/U is keeping them in popular calibers. This gives more options to trade or scavenge ammo and parts.
#1 something in 308/30-06. I would love the M14 if money was not an issue.
You could by a springfield stnd for around $1300. Or you could get the parts slowly and build one up. You can get brand new cast recievers for $399, barrel for $200, oprod for $175, trigger group for $150-$200, rear sight for $75-$100, bolt for $150-$200, and gas system for $125, and all other small parts for another 100 or so including a cheap stock.
There are alot of new commercial parts manufactures out there now that are building quality replacement parts for the m14 so I actually see prices coming down some in the near future.
If you want links to these parts let me know.
theGinsue
02-07-2010, 19:49
#1. 30-06 for hunting
#2 12ga for close quarters use
#3 Beretta 92 - close quarters/personal defense. Ammo availability is good, easy to completely disaaemble and clean.
I think the reason the other thread was just one gun, is because every other "SHTF Gun" thread is 3 guns and the whole thread is filled with 90% answers of "bolt gun, shot gun, pistol."
M1a
870
92
Not that I'll ever need them but I have plenty of ammo and spare parts for each.
Troublco
02-07-2010, 22:17
I think the reason the other thread was just one gun, is because every other "SHTF Gun" thread is 3 guns and the whole thread is filled with 90% answers of "bolt gun, shot gun, pistol."
Waaaaaaaaaaaah.
Start your own thread if you want something different. Two, four, five, heck, what if you could only have a knife? What kind of knife would you want if you only have one?
Troublco
02-07-2010, 22:43
You have a point, however I'd say that shows, to some degree, the validity of the three gun set. Maybe, though, a better thread would be what would you take? One? Three? Seven? And what?
One other gun all of us have forgot to mention is the mighty .22LR. I'm changing my answer........
2nd Gun any accurate .22LR with a scope. This will take care of small game out farther than a shotgun can take.
the shotty and pistol get moved down to 3rd and 4th positions respectively......
Birddog1911
02-08-2010, 09:40
As much as I love my M1A, this thread got me to thinking that it would be a good idea to have an inexpensive .308 bolt gun as a backup. You never know when Murphy is going to rear his ugly head.
One thing that should be kept in mind is that you should have a spare parts kit for each of your guns. Springs, firing pins, bolt parts, etc. Atleast if it does break, you can probably be able to fix it.
Also, for those of us who love our service rifles, consider the adjustable gas systems. That way if you run out of surplus powered ammo, you can pick up anything off of a shelf, so to speak.
GreenScoutII
02-08-2010, 09:41
Hmmm...
Just three guns huh? That makes it a bit tough. I'll take a stab at it though. Since I live out in the country on very flat terrain, the area is largely irrigated fields and pasture, I have very little in the way of cover/concealment. I may have to engage targets out to much farther distances than my urban friends will. As such, this has influenced my decision.
1. Scoped/sporterized P17 Enfield in .30-06. I have shot this rifle at distances out to 600 yds. If I work up a 1000 yd zero, I can cover the irrigation ditch and defend the western approach to my property.
2. Rem 870. 12 Gauge with 00 Buck is a whole lot of ugly bad news out to about 50 yards or so. Also, it can be loaded with other shells for different purposes.
3. Sig P 220. .45 acp. Enough said.
SSChameleon
02-08-2010, 10:19
Some of the posts here got me thinking about swapping the shotgun for a 22lr. But then I was looking at photos from Hati and all the locals and local police had shotguns. If I were stuck in an urban setting I might choose a 22lr, 12ga, and pistol in a popular caliber (357, 9mm, 40, 45). It really depends on how bad things are and it there was a real chance of getting into a shootout.
In the country I'm not sure what I would choose.
#1 AR15
#2 870
#3 Pistol of choice
Pancho Villa
02-08-2010, 11:57
I think all of these threads have a fundamental flaw in them, namely the idea that there any "3 best" guns.
Guns are tools. Certain guns are better for certain things than others. What is the best set of tools for my situation may or may not be the best one for your's. And you shouldn't just think of "Whats the best gun?" in a vacuume. You should put some serious thought into what you have, why, and what is best FOR YOUR PLAN.
Take me for example. I have two major plans should things get so bad that I need to evacuate the area and get to my safe place.
Plan A: Roads are open and/or I get enough advanced warning to move supplies over to my safe place. This means I don't have to make any tough choices - all my guns, ammo, food, etc, come with me.
Pln B: OSHI- essentially, am forced to foot it over to where I need to get to. I am lucky in that I have a second set of hands/legs (the wife) to carry stuff. Food, medical supplies, etc aplenty are already at the safe place, but which guns to take now becomes a serious issue.
If you need to foot it 100 miles (or more if you count having to avoid major intersections, possible trouble spots, etc,) whats your main consideration? WEIGHT followed directly by COMPACTNESS. So here is the weapons-related loadout for the wife and I.
Me: Glock 17, concealed underneath weather-appropriate clothing. Spare ammo & mags.
"Sweetheart" (a savage model 10 "scout" rifle with a custom ultralight barrel, weighing in with scope and sling at about 6.5lbs) & spare ammo for Sweetheart
Wife: Taurus PT1911, spare mags
Custom built AR15 w/Cav Arms MkII lower, pencil barrel, iron sights (weighs only 5.8lbs) + pmags
The AR15 and Sweetheart are both concealed in our bags. The pistols will do for surprise encounters (of which there will ideally be none) with the longarms used only at last resort, when trouble just cannot be gone around or avoided. The point here is that, other than the pistols, both of our longarms + ammo and other kit weigh less than 10lbs, allowing us to load up our packs with other important stuff such as food, basic medical supplies, and other stuff.
This is a good balance for what I'd be doing, worst-case. I expect never to really need to execute the plan (the woman loves her AR15 and I hunt up in the mountains with Sweetheart, and believe me the weight is a great thing, so its not wasted investments.) Your situation is probably different.
Remember that a weapon has no intrinsic merit; it has merit based on the situation it is used in. For most situations this isn't a big consideration because you should have supplies and a solid plan for getting most of your stuff to your safe place in one trip. In the case in which you CAN'T, lightness and handiness take prime consideration. Who here thinks he can hike 100 miles with an M1A, Rem 870, pistol, ammo for all and supplies (food, water purification, medical supplies, etc.,) needed to make the trip? Even a fantastically fit human will be slowed down considerably by the extra weight, and most people will simply just start dumping ammo/weapons by day 3.
Kind of hard to pick a best of anything without known criterion or limits...
In what conditions will these best guns be used, etc?...
However, to answer the question, I'll stick with standard practice:
Handgun
Shotty
Longrifle
10/22, .357 lever action (good for hunting pretty much anything 2 or 4 legged out to 200 yards or so, use .38s for small game at shorter ranges. Probably wouldn't try for elk with this one.), .357 4 inch revolver. Commonality of ammo helps with overall weight.
I got talked into buying a 12 gauge pump. When I noticed that no one fell down dead at the sound of the thing, I decided to see how useful a Winchester 1300 would be around the house (shotty? Gotz youse a Deagle wit dat?). Totally inappropriate for the layout of my house, doors all open the wrong way, halls are too narrow, etc.
So my 3-gun loadout would be:
(just to be contrary) Lever action .30-30. Old reliable.
.22lr rifle. Pump/lever/bolt.
I like to say 1911 but I think a .357 revolver would work better.
Yeah, higher round capacity and quick, easy reloads with an auto. I carry a 1911, but if SHTF I'm either keeping track of magazines or worrying about damage to the 3 or 4 I can carry easily.
I gave that almost 5 minutes of deep thought, so I'm sure it'll be picked apart pretty quick
I think all of these threads have a fundamental flaw in them, namely the idea that there any "3 best" guns.
Guns are tools. Certain guns are better for certain things than others.
Your a 100% right, that's why the weapons chosen need to work in more then one role. It may not be the best weapon for the job at hand, but it need's to work, and you need to have all of your potential needs covered. You can only pack so much.
cool stuff 1.22cal. pellet rifle. You can carve pellets if need be. 2. sks tough as nails . 3. g19 . sorry for the layout I dont know how to work the tab.
cowboykjohnson
02-10-2010, 14:27
#1 Scoped .300 win mag police sniper
#2 10/22 rifle with iron sights... threaded barrel
#3 Sig mosquito with suppressor
So, since people keep saying how they won't trade ammo in a survival situation because it could be arming a potential enemy, and you can only take 3 guns, do you destroy all your other guns and ammo?
cowboykjohnson
02-10-2010, 16:32
So, since people keep saying how they won't trade ammo in a survival situation because it could be arming a potential enemy, and you can only take 3 guns, do you destroy all your other guns and ammo?
No you give them to your unarmed family members to lug around for you.[Beer]
thvigil11
02-24-2010, 00:39
M1A for distance
M4 for up close
M1911 for way to close for comfort
lead_magnet
02-24-2010, 03:35
Gun #1: Ar-15, in standard 5.56 (ALOT of ammo can be carrier very easily, good reliable repeating rifle that is accurate and LIGHT, avalibility and price of 5.56/223)
Gun #2: Mossberg 590 or similar tactical shotgun (varity of shells can be used, availability and price of 12ga ammo, can be used for small game hunting if it came down to it)
Gun #3: Glock, Glock 17 for me personally (IMHO one of the most reliable pistols of its kind, also easy to carry alot of ammo for esp. with +2 base plates, who wants to have to change mags anyway?, availability and price of 9mm ammo)
I piked the above because its would be VERY easy to scrounge ammo and parts for the above weapons, though a rem 870 would have easier parts to come by.
OH, and,...
I realize this set-up leaves alot ot be desired in the long rage arena...but thats why camo is important, but not above being a sneaky little bastard ;) ... and bring a big friend along that is up for lugging around one of those heavy m1a your all talking about ;)
lead_magnet
02-24-2010, 03:43
Something else I forgot to add on, its the 22lr converson kit for the ar, and a box of 22lr, basicly adds a 4th gun w/ almost no gain in weight.
another good combo would be a 22ca. pellet pistal for covert small game. g-19 for your better than throwing rocks gun. and the ar-15 will handle the rest
Troublco
03-04-2010, 22:35
Not a bad idea......getting a pump air pistol or rifle with a supply of pellets. You could carry quite a few pellets before they even weighed as much as one box of cartridges.
.44 mag/spl lever action
.44 mag/spl Vavuero
.22lr Browning Buckmark suppressed
I was thinking I would want something very reliable that I could readily find ammo or spare parts for, so here goes.
Glock 22c for every day carry. With 9mm conversion barrel for types oh shit situations when .40 gets hard to find.
M1a in one of the shorter barrel configurations, probably topped with an eotech for general use and the 3x magnification tube for longer work. Would also work well for taking down medium sized "dinner" animals.
mossy 500 with both a 18/20 and 28 inch barrel. Can be used for devistating close in work, and great for medium ranges with slugs. Plus it can put dinner on the table.
So far the only one of these I would need to acquire is the m1a. If I needed to, I would gladly substitute it for either my savage 111 30-06 so I can still put food on the table, or my ar (which wont be as good for hunting, more for SD).
mangyhyena
03-29-2010, 10:33
The type of shtf event and expected duration would be extremely important for this list, but I'll take a stab at it.
1. 12 G. Shotgun. (could cover up close defense and hunting both large and small game)
2. Handgun. For concealable defense that is within reach 24/7.
3. Battle rifle. For a serious firefight where many rounds will be fired.
That's my best shot at trying to cover the most things one could need a firearm for after tshtf. I'm not so concerned about hunting because I believe most game will be gone very shortly after tshtf if food is in short supply. And if any successful hunting is done, it will probably not be deer and elk. (It will be more difficult to preserve all that meat after things fall apart, don't you think?) It will probably be small game only---squirrels & rabbits. And, also, in addition to that, I believe one would be better served by trapping small game as opposed to going out and trying to shoot it.
funkfool
03-29-2010, 10:57
Something else I forgot to add on, its the 22lr converson kit for the ar, and a box of 22lr, basicly adds a 4th gun w/ almost no gain in weight.
+1 for innovation.
daemon734
03-31-2010, 19:04
my 3 top picks in my safe right now for a bug-out would be:
CMMG M4 5.56: I also have a .22lr conversion kit and uppers ranging from 9mm, 7.62x25 to 5.45 or a dedicated 22lr. Plus my whole kit is based around carrying M4 mags.
armalite AR10: heavy as shit but a much more stable and adaptable platfrom than my M1A.
HK USP compact in 9mm
I can fit all three in my carry case (with backpack straps) along with at least two extra uppers for the M4.
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m303/daemon734/DSCF1010.jpg
CowboyTuff
04-07-2010, 09:48
1.) I think the AK is the best rifle for this task, Its a big enough bullet for large game, and its combat effectivness goes without saying, and you can clean it with spit and boot laces. Some would argue the 5.45 would be more effective due to being able to carry more ammo, but I'm going with 7.62 for my hunting/ combat rifle due to ammo availability and bullet size.
2.) 1911 pistol w/ .22 conversion. This covers your CQC side arm as well as a very good hunting firearm. I would love to bring a .22 rifle but when it comes down to three guns, some have to be left behind, and you get almost the same hunting capabilities.
3.) Now the third gun was the hard part for me, but the Benelli Nova in a 26" barrel configuration allows me to hunt any bird around, and ammo is always available
But like it was said before, your plan is the most important
7.62x39(4)life
04-07-2010, 10:41
1. pellet gun
2. single shot 410 Guage shotgun
3. flare gun
7.62x39(4)life
04-07-2010, 10:44
1. krinkov In 7.62x39
2. 300 win mag bolt gun
3. glock 22
jerrymrc
04-07-2010, 14:39
I started the other one just because I knew this one was not far behind.;) Lot's of interesting answers.
Some thoughts. 7.62x39(4)life, 3. flare gun. while not a "gun" per se I hope your thinking what I think your thinking.
Many chose the pistol, rifle,shotgun combo. I have always leaned to the camp that says " A pistol is used to fight your way to the rifle"
This is an AR forum so many chose that. The one thing that I have watched is over the years they got fat. The A2 gained over the A1. The M4 reduced that back down then everyone started adding stuff that got many AR's back to the 8-9lb mark. Once ya get back to that weight ya might as well carry a .308
Just some thoughts.
I'm in a relatively urban setting, with no real escape plan, so my needs are more SD/urban survival based.
1. AK or SKS. Durability, reliability, already have tons of ammo, could keep it clean and functioning with spit and a sock forever.
2. Rem 870. Easy to find parts and ammo. Extra barrel for game(dogs, cats, pigeons)
3. Although I'd prefer a .45 or 10mm, I imagine the little wannabe bangers in my area carry 9mm. So a glock 17, just in case I get the opportunity to scavenge ammo off of some hood that doesn't understand the natural order of things.
If the SHTF in my neck of the woods, I'd probably be well served to swap #2 for a fire extinguisher.
2008f450
04-13-2010, 19:55
1. Bolt gun in .300WM or 30.06. Synthetic stock, good scope. probably have iron sights on it as back up just in case. prefer Remington 700.
2. 870 shotgun in 12GA with short tube maybe 14 inches for close in and a 28 incher for birds and such.
3. I lean toward a 4 inch barreled revolver in .44 MAG. I pick it because I can load .44 spc in it for 2 legged soft skinned critters or go full bore for 4 legged critters.
I think 4 gun battery would be best bet only so I can have a .45 1911 to carry too. but what can i do. Maybe make wifes list and put my .45 in it.
bobbyfairbanks
04-13-2010, 20:13
For any type of SHTF you would not need a shotgun to kill birds just shoot them in a tree or on the ground with a 22. Walking around hunting will be a waste of time. It can also kill people and is quit so you could shoot people from even as far away as 150m and they would have no way of knowing where you are for at least a while. So with that my first choice would be a
Ruger 10/22 with a 4 power scope
The next gun would for some kind of SD. So for this I would go with a rifle not carbine. M1a with USGI parts and an Acog will kill any game in America and it is a great combat weapon. The noise it makes alone will make people piss themselves. Also one very important aspect a .308 rd goes through cover and will still kill people; 5.56 gets deflecting to easily so go big 1 bullet does a lot of damage so you can carry less. My choice for second gun would be
Springfield M1A with USGI parts and ACOG
For my third choice most people would think some kind of hand gun or shotgun but those aren't really that important for me. Handguns aren't good hunters and they are very limited in combat use. Why waste the weight of a hand gun when you can carry more ammo for your rifle. Both of my previous choices can get me food and defend my self with. So unless I have a third person with me I would just carry some more ammo. If I had a third person depending on who it was it would be another M1a or if it was my wife whe would carry a AR15 with none of the extra stuff on it. It is easier for her to handle then an M1A as she doesn't have long arms. Any more then 2 guns for one person and you are just wasting weight. there is a lot of other things that you could carry. Just to name a few warm cloths(MTNs get cold), food or maybe even some water.
My point is Guns are great and they are very cool but lets be practical you can only shoot one at a time might as well carry less variants and carry supplies instead.
Just to add I have way to many guns cause they are that great!
kidicarus13
04-13-2010, 21:30
1. M1A
2. Rem 870/Moss 500/Win 1200 w/ 16"-18" barrel
3. G17
thvigil11
04-13-2010, 21:53
Just wondering. When you all answer this, are the weapons you describe currently in your arsenal or are they just dream weapons for the scenario? I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm just wondering if you are truly prepared for this. By the way I do own my kit in full, plus a few others that will be passed out to family members and friends.
M1A for distance
M4 for up close
M1911 for way to close for comfort
jerrymrc
04-14-2010, 06:06
Just wondering. When you all answer this, are the weapons you describe currently in your arsenal or are they just dream weapons for the scenario? I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm just wondering if you are truly prepared for this. By the way I do own my kit in full, plus a few others that will be passed out to family members and friends.
M1A for distance
M4 for up close
M1911 for way to close for comfort
I would hope that they have these. How could one pick without first hand testing. I also pray that one would have enough ammo for each one as well.
I would also have a well trained person with a SKS than someone that just pulled a SCAR out of the box.
Well in the one gun thread I gave my answer but ill do it here also.
1. M1A Scout Currently sporting a red dot but I have the scope for it
2. Rem 870,
3. .45, either my 1911 or my XD. XD gives the availability to carry a lot more ammo.
OgenRwot
04-18-2010, 14:09
1. Glock 19 - Perfect combo of concealability and capacity and 9mm is everywhere and it just works. You could go with a 23 too. .40 is all over with PDs using 22s and you can use the mags from 22s in 23s.
2. Bolt action 308 - Good for reach out and touch ya if you need it, good to take any game in Colorado. It's inherently accurate. 308 is also readily available and there is a lot of different kinds of it out there.
3. AR-15 - Good for the zombies, more accurate than an AK so it can be used for the reach out and touch ya if you need it. Can take medium game too with good shot placement, no it's not perfect but it will work in a pinch. Ammo is light so you can carry a lot if you have to bug out.
If I could only keep three of mine they would be as follows-
G26
Kel-Tec Sub 2000 that accepts Glock mags.
AR-15 in 9mm that accepts Glock mags.
Have a nice day!
blackford76
04-30-2010, 01:24
Pick 3, hmm...
1. Ruger SR556
2. Kimber Desert Warrior
3. Mossberg 590a1
Dream guns that I don't own?
Just one, M1A2 from Ft. Carson.
mangyhyena
09-14-2010, 07:22
AK-47
Saiga-12
Handgun---darn near any handgun in a decent defensive caliber.
With those 3 guns I can cover most hunting needs, though I don't think hunting is the way to go for meat. Trapping small game is a much, much better alternative in terms of both energy and time saved and quantity of meat gained. And if things are really bad, you will not be the only one shooting large game. When you go bang on that elk or deer, everyone within earshot will hear that as a dinner bell going off and they are armed. I doubt you would get your kill out of the woods before someone who is hungry showed up pointing their hunting rifle at you.
I can also defend myself and my family at home.
And I can carry concealed when in public if things are bad, but not so bad there are no police around to serve and protect. If things are bad but still up and running, you're not going to be allowed to bring that tacti-cool rifle to work with you. But you can bring the handgun without anyone knowing you've got it if you conceal it well.
Anyway, that's my choice.
1.Kimber " Eclipse ", 1911, 45 acp with 30 mags.loaded with defensive ammo;plus another 250 rds.
2.REMINGTON 870 Law Enforcement 12 guage,with 250 rds.of Federal non rifled slugs.250 rds. of 7 1/2 birdshot,and 250 rds.of Federal Law Enforcement Low Recoil Tactical 00 Buckshot.
3. AK 47,7.62X39,with 12, loaded 30 rd Mags.with softpoint ammo;plus another 1,000 rds.
4.A shoulder pack that can handle 100 pounds
5.Yes,they are in my safe at my home.
[ROFL3]
"YA GOTTA TRAVEL LIGHT KID"
Living in a rural area where I will be soon i would pick
something in .22, short rifle, supression would be nice, easy to find ammo
glock 20/29 with other caliber barrels for ammo avaliability+ big firepower
longer range rifle for trespassers or food 308 for ammo avaliability reasons.
Claemore
09-30-2010, 23:16
Living in a rural area where I will be soon i would pick
something in .22, short rifle, supression would be nice, easy to find ammo
glock 20/29 with other caliber barrels for ammo avaliability+ big firepower
longer range rifle for trespassers or food 308 for ammo avaliability reasons.
You beat me to it with the Glock 20. I think this is one of the most versatile handguns ever. With a red dot sight, detachable stock and multiple barrels in .40, 9mm and 10mm, you can't go wrong.
PTR91 .308. Basically the HK91. Ultra reliable and accurate. Magazines are cheap.
And the Kel-tec PMR30 .22 mag. 30 rounds, and the .22 mag is very underrated. I love it.
ldmaster
01-06-2011, 01:46
Geez, like we didn't have enough already:
1. FAL rifle, carbine length. .308 cartridge can take anything edible at 100yds if need be (typical hunting shots are less than that). And it's got incredible power when compared to the AR15, not to mention there's just no aluminum on it that can get damaged if I trip and fall. A couple of years back some Malaysian guerilla fighter finally gave up his fight after something like 20-30 years living in the bush. The rifle he used all that time was a L1A1 and it still worked. Recoil for the FAL is so manageable that I "turned" two slight women to using it instead of their AR for home defense (yes they train), it just didn't bother them and they liked the power.
2. Any slide action 22. Most take short/long/longrifle bullets. With the 22 short the crows on the farm just wither and die, the noise is so low it's hard to hear me more than 200yds away with subsonic shorts. It doesn't overpenetrate or carry a mile, it takes out any small game that I need to. I can load 20 shorts in mine. I use iron sights and am a pretty good point shooter out to 25 yards, any distance longer than that and you're looking at a ballistic arc that resembles the stock downturn a couple of years back. Using a scope for a 22 just isn't practical and I've NEVER missed game with my little iron sights. It, too, doesn't have anything on it to break - an older winchester pump.
3. Any 44 magnum revolver. I use a S&W model 29. I'm not a wheelgun fan in the sense that I think they walk on water. But they don't break (easily) the loadings can go from very mild to bearkiller (eventually) and snakeshot as a first round when I'm hiking.
I use and train with these for a number of reasons related to SHTF scenarios, here they are in no particular order:
1. If you're stocking up on common caliber ammo, be prepared to have it seized by the local police department. Some people think the opposite, and figure if they stock the same as their local department that they can SHARE. Huh? Every plan I've ever seen in regards to this has civil authorities seizing ammunition for their use, I can't see them sharing it BACK with a person.
2. Sniping, scopes and long distance. I'm trying to survive, WHAT am I sniping at? By protocol a sniper takes a hide and occupies it for long periods of time awaiting their target. I have NO business doing this because my best tools are my ability to un-ass an area and avoid people. Once you have gotten that second shot off at a bad guy(s) you're all but spotted, and you'll wish you had a semi-auto. Scopes break, in any long-term scenario a scope will break. I use Elcan military scopes on my carbine, god that thing is a boat anchor - and it doesn't break either. typical glass scopes are just too delicate for long-term things, I dont want to have to baby my rifle and re-zero all the time when I bump it. Re-zeroing would involve making noise, something I am against.
3. I avoid things made of plastic aside from grips and furniture. If a gun has a plastic part - i.e. Ruger 10/22 the part is weak. Aluminum is fine, as long as it doesn't have to take much of a beating. And any long term SHTF scenario means that replacement parts are unavailable.
4. 22's are just darn useful when you just have to take out the birds that are eating your survival garden.
5. Why no shotgun? They are either sporting arms or close-in defense. Close in defense is what my carbine is for, and taking birds someone has already pointed out is better done with snares. yes, I have lots of snare wire! Their ammunition is bulky too. The best accuracy you can hope for is using slugs out to about 100yds. I can shoot 300 rounds of .308 at 100yds easily and cheaply. With slugs running about 1.50 apiece, and buckshot not being much better - it's a pretty expensive toy with little utility for SHTF. Shotguns shoot lead balls, or lead slugs - none of which will penetrate level II body armor (but they'd hurt). To get through body armo you need "fast and pointy" like a rifle round, if I'm getting "raided" by thieves then you can almost count of them having some body armor - I dont want it to be an issue.
6. Semiauto pistols need maintenance. Glock being the major exception to this. If I didn't like that first birdshot round in my 44, I'd carry a Glock 21. My ability to either shoot a snake (had to occasionally) or a predator (anything hit in the face with birdshot, gets at LEAST distracted and hopefully blind) Then the final 5 softpoints can end the argument as I have more time to aim. You just dont know what it feels like until it happens, you're hiking up a trail and you THINK you've been careful about snakes and you end up doing a very silly dance while trying to climb something. My first instinct is to draw my pistol, I trained that way and it just happens. If I spin around to find a mountain lion has been stalking me (also has happened) I dont much care to fight with it, and a load of birdshot would work as a first round too. Same thing goes for four legged jackals. I shouldn't be getting into extended firefights where my only option is my pistol, I'm in SHTF, my carbine should be welded to my left- testicle at all times when I'm not in the perimeter.
7. So much of what on envisions using a gun for is inappropriate during SHTF, MOSTLY because of noise. You want to be inobtrusive and not draw attention. Potting crows with a 22short is something for a lazy day when you're in your perimeter and the noise signature is almost non-existent. Patrolling means movement, and movement means stealth - carbine length is easy to wield when needed, and .308 is the perfect anti-goblin caliber.
8. Hunting? Are you kidding? The ball has dropped, people are now roaming everywhere, refugees abound. Do you really think that making a big BOOM will not draw attention? Besides, you should have laid up at LEAST 2 years worth of food, you have no NEED to hunt. By the time you might need to hunt, the local larger game will be GONE - sniped to death by the starving horde. Don't think it can happen? What happened to the buffalo? The passenger pigeon, etc. If you're out hunting in the first two years, then you have made BAD preparations for the bad times. Let's not mention the MARTIAL LAW that has been imposed, and you can bet anybody who fires a gun will draw the attention of the government.
Did mention the silencer for the 22? Not integral, but very nice. It's not a gun, but hey, if you can put a 1000 dollar scope on your tactical rifle for SHTF, I can put a 200 dollar silencer on mine.
Bailey Guns
01-06-2011, 08:44
To answer the original question in the OP:
AR-style rifle in .308 or 5.56
Big caliber handgun - ie: .44Mag
Smaller Caliber handgunI'm not a shotgun guy.
Now to the SHTF type responses:
I'm gonna need to take lessons from some of you guys on how to pack around that much weight in guns/ammo along with all the other life-sustaining necessities I'll need.
If I don't have to leave home, I have everything I'll need - gunwise - right here. So no need to pick 3.
If I do have to leave I'll either be walking or driving. If I'm driving, I'll be able to take a lot more than 3 guns w/ammo.
If I'm walking...weight is really gonna be an issue and I probably ain't gonna be carrying 3 guns w/ammo. I'll probably have the Mini-30 with 4 loaded mags. MAYBE a small 9mm handgun...Kel-Tec PF9...tucked away with limited ammo (hopeful I'll be able to find more along the way).
Maybe I'm being contrary but I don't envision any scenario(s) where I'll be limited to 3 guns short of leaving on foot. If that's the case, I can't take 3 anyway and still take the other items I'll need.
ldmaster
01-06-2011, 13:19
I hear you on the weight issue. I was reading something last night and in it a fictional character pointed something out about rich vs poor men.
He said that a typical working class guy might have three pairs of shoes. His best pair of shoes/boots (the most comfortable) he didn't wear unless he had to walk somewhere - where the comfort made the difference. He would wear his 3rd best pair to work, where they might get dirty or damaged, but not do a significant amount of walking and reserve his 2nd best pair for social occasions.
A rich man will have a dozen pairs of boots, and he will squander his most comfortable pair on mundane things. A poor man has to choose his boots with care and forethought.
Sorta like 3 guns.
flan7211
01-06-2011, 15:29
Idmaster I'm agreeing with a lot of what your saying.
I have two main plans, my survival co-op has stay put plans, but honestly I know of three areas in the hills of south dakota or wyoming I'd rather be. With structures, good access to water, and far from civilization. I'll tell you what staying in a populated area would be a near death sentence for most people. The raiding would be intense, if government couldn't keep order than most folks would do what had to be done for their family.
My guns-
1.M1a Socom 16, always has treated me right. With iron sights i can hit my targets 400m or more if need be. I'll throw an eotech on there if in a cqc scenario. With steel core ammo you can punch through most body armor. The other factor, with proper placement shoots there is nothing you can't take down in North America. Though you shouldn't have to hunt, if you did you could get the job done.
2. PPS-43
Honestly my Remington 700 VTR .308 is a beast and with a scope I can knock down some asshole pretty far away, it is too damn heavy to be carrying. My group of guys has two ex-snipers who are a lot better than me. Therefore the gun I want is a PPS-43, 7.62 Tokarev is an amazing little round. No thanks on a .22, first rimfires are not as reliable as a good centerfire. Tok, is cheap, and you can easily stock pile it. The PPS is very reliable, fires from an open bolt, and has a floating firing pin. When I'm not poor and out of work I'm getting one.
3.Third is my early 80's Sig 229, I have both the .357 SIG and the .40 Barrel, two great rounds. But honestly by the time you have to use a pistol your screwed. My M1a is also going to be tied to my left testicle.
michael_aos
01-06-2011, 17:01
I pop in here every so often and just hit the "New posts" link.
I didn't initially notice this was in the Survival / Preparedness forum. I assumed it was about the game of 3-Gun / multigun.
Actually though, there may be some cross-over. For the game, I would say:
STI Tactical
Benelli M2 Field
JP AR
Eldorado556
01-06-2011, 19:26
I always thought something like a Baikal IZH-94 Sever 22lr/20ga. would be nice. It will keep meat on the table and leave you with two more guns to bring along.
These I actually have,
M1A
Rem 870 Wingmaster with shortened barrel
1911 pistol
For my Fiance,
AR15
Stoeger O/U 12 Guage
Sig Sauer P225 9mm
Beprepared
01-06-2011, 21:56
I hear you on the weight issue. I was reading something last night and in it a fictional character pointed something out about rich vs poor men.
He said that a typical working class guy might have three pairs of shoes. His best pair of shoes/boots (the most comfortable) he didn't wear unless he had to walk somewhere - where the comfort made the difference. He would wear his 3rd best pair to work, where they might get dirty or damaged, but not do a significant amount of walking and reserve his 2nd best pair for social occasions.
A rich man will have a dozen pairs of boots, and he will squander his most comfortable pair on mundane things. A poor man has to choose his boots with care and forethought.
Sorta like 3 guns.
Took me a minute. Wheel of Time... that last one was a damn good book.
Took me a minute. Wheel of Time... that last one was a damn good book.
I'm not going to derail this thread, but I wanted to let you know that Brandon Sanderson has been commissioned to finish out the series. Sanderson's other work should be checked out.
Carry on dudes.
jreifsch80
01-07-2011, 03:50
This is a very interesting thread. Lots of varried responses I gotta admit when I first read some posts talking about taking a couple hundred rounds of different types of shotgun ammo and rifle ammo and pistol ammo I think wow some guys here must either be very very strong if they also plan on carrying supplies or have very very big gas tanks ;) not bashing anyone as we all have different plans and needs here's my idea
If I have transportation
1 my 8x57 m76 its an ak based rifle mine is very accurate and 8mm mauser will drop anything with 4 legs or two and I have plenty of ammo for it (also despite what you all may think ammo is pretty easy to find if need be)
2 my 870 wingmaster
3 my cz-52 with 3 or 4 70 round boxes of surp 7.62x25 for it also a 9mm conversion barrel in case I scavenge some
If I'm on foot
1 underfolder akm, light weight hardy can hide in a pack and while people say it can be cleaned with spit and a boot lace my buddy that is a former ukrainian spetznaz said they were taught if need be to clean it by pissing down the barrel and running a boot lace through it haha
2 single shot break open 12 gauge, breaks into 2 pieces fits in a pack and is light, for ammo I'd have about 50 full brass hulls a couple pounds of black powder and a couple pounds of shot a slug mold (just in case) and elmers glue for my top wad, if the top wad is glued instead of crimped in place they can practicly be reloaded forever oh and plenty of primers too
3 same pistol as before the ammo is light
And in my dreams where weight and ammo are not problem (or full on fall of western civ as we know it shtf)
1 mg-42 with at least 4 cases of ammo and a dozen barrels haha
2 saiga 12k with about 20 8 round mags and about 10 drums
3 for my pistol hehe... An aks-74u with about 30 mags and a couple cases of ammo (oh and a hand drill and a few "extra" parts haha)
But realisticly though it's tempting to have like 20 mags per firearm in my bug out bag I find it more practicle to have more like 4 or 5 for my ak variant I'd choose to take as well as a stripper clip guide and my extra ammo on stripper clips though I can see carring zillions of pistol mags as they're light and compact
And don't forget black powder and full brass hulls guys bp lasts forever practicly and with brass hulls reloading them would only require a. Punch for pushing out the spent primer, a stick for compressing the load and elmers glue for securing the top wad heck you could probably use candle wax (might be dangerous haha) or even tree sap to secure the top wad. Also with bp loads the measuring is simple too
Anyway I don't mean to ramble but I did haha
mcantar18c
01-23-2011, 03:28
Gun 1: Colt SAA in .45LC with a 7.5" barrel. I'm more accurate with single actions than any other handgun I've shot with. They're durable as hell, no recoil springs or anything to wear down, simple = less chit to break.
Gun 2: Taurus Circuit Judge with a 4x32 optic. Will shoot .45LC and both 2.5" and 3" .410 shells out of an 18.5" barrel. .45LC to hunt 4 and 2 leg creatures, .410 for winged ones and for personal defense. Commonality of .45LC is an obvious benefit, and I can fit more .410 on me than I can 12ga.
Don't need a Gun 3, I already have a shotgun, handgun, and a rifle.... I can put that saved space and weight to better use.
gcrookston
01-23-2011, 04:23
HK 93 quickly convertible from precision rifle to battle rifle to assault rifle
HK/Benelli M1S90
HK USPT .45
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/gcrookston/dsc00086wx6.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/gcrookston/gcrookston1078082754dsc000062p.jpg
my 3 gun would be only what i have.
1. Glock 22 with 10+mags
2. mossberg 500 with only ammo i can carry and still be able to run
3. .22 single action revolver
i would also carry my aluminum baseball bat for when ammo runs dry or to save ammo either way i can do some damage with that if they dont have a gun hahaha
Asmodiar
01-25-2011, 11:00
Well, for sure:
12 gauge pump shotgun - Probably longer barrel for better hunting...
.22LR rifle - personal choice - I like my Marlin bolt action.. but they are all about the same
----
Then your third arm is up in the air... But handguns are good for personal defense... I'd go .45 revolver
Of course a 5.56 AR would be a good option... can't go wrong there
But a .308 or 30-06 hunting rifle with a x4 scope would probably be a more practical bet.
primeelkhunter
02-03-2011, 11:55
1 Pistol is a Ruger revolver chambered in .357 Magnum
2 Rifle is a Rossi "trapper" chambered in .357 magnum (Krasni has it on
order for me)
3 Shotgun is a Stoeger "coach gun" chambered in 20 ga.(one barrel with
00 buck, the other with slug)
[UZI]
rockhound
02-13-2011, 13:13
how about just about any gun you happen to have handy.
personally i have been customizing my personal armory for the last year or so.
no ones business as to what i have or will have,
suffice to say I won't be unarmed when the SHTF
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