View Full Version : ALL GSG 5 SD Owners - READ THIS!
Here is the link (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=41&t=305635) to other forum.
To all retail customers:
On January 2010 American Tactical Imports Inc received official notification from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and explosives that the original barrel shroud (aka: fake suppressor) supplied with your GSG 5 SD model must be replaced. It has been determined that this shroud is regulated under the National Firearms Act. American Tactical will provide a replacement shroud at no charge for each GSG 5 SD model sold or currently in inventory.
Consumers in possession of a GSG 5 SD model with the original shroud in place on the firearm are now in violation of the NFA. To avoid continued violation of the NFA, ATI asks that all persons in possession obtain a replacement shroud as soon as possible. We anticipate arrival of the new shrouds to begin by the middle of February 2010.
IMPORTANT: THE ORIGINAL SD MODEL SHROUD MUST BE RETURNED ACOMPANIED BY THE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBER BEFORE A REPLACEMENT SHROUD IS ISSUED. THE DIAMETER OF THE SD SHROUD IS 1-9/16”. DO NOT RETURN THE SMALLER CARBINE SHROUD.
WHAT TO DO:
If possible return your old shroud to the dealer where purchased and show him this notice. The shroud will be returned to ATI along with a list of serial numbers from the guns that the shrouds were removed. ATI will send replacements to the dealer for pick up at your convenience; ATI will be sending replacements as fast as logistics allow. If your dealer is out of business or difficult to reach, or you purchased your gun used, from a consumer, return the shroud directly by US mail or UPS to American Tactical Imports Inc. 100 Airpark Drive Rochester, NY 14624.
PLEASE TRY NOT TO CALL US. We will provide comprehensive information on our web site www.americantactical.us , and www.ar15.com or by e-mail to atiexchange@americantactical.us
REMEMBER, INCLUDE THE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBER WITH EACH SHROUD OR A REPLACEMENT WILL NOT BE ISSUED.
This action IS NOT being instituted through any fault and is strictly due to NFA compliance. American Tactical will assume the responsibility to satisfy the requirements in an effort to minimize the impact on our customers and protect your investment.
We at American Tactical Imports Inc. sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused by this unfortunate situation.
Sincerely,
Anthony DiChario
President C.E.O. retailcandoc.021210
Can you believe this?!
I have been waiting for shit like this to happen. Fake cans are worthless. if you want a can, go buy one! The only guns that fake cans are good for are airsoft. on a real gun you will just draw unnecessary attention and then the burden to prove it is a fake lies on you. with real cans you can whip out the paperwork and be on your merry way.
I can and can't believe this. It is beyond stupid, but the ATF is known for being stupid.
What if you already replaced your shroud with something else and no longer have the original?
All you have to do is pull the trigger to prove it is fake.
If it even makes the weapon 1/8" of a decibel quiter (possibly could, by holding the barrel in a fixed position), they can call it a supressor.
If it even makes the weapon 1/8" of a decibel quiter (possibly could, by holding the barrel in a fixed position), they can call it a supressor.
yep, there is no gray area in the eyes of the ATF.
Shooting low powered, subsonic Collabri (or whatever) ammo makes it quieter. Shooting it through a longer barrel would make it quieter too.
I can and can't believe this. It is beyond stupid, but the ATF is known for being stupid.
What if you already replaced your shroud with something else and no longer have the original?
I would think you are good to go except if you still have the original in your possession. then you are in possession of a silencer without the proper paperwork. If you signed paperwork for your GSG, I would say send it end and get it replaced...plus then they have paperwork that you have done so.
It really isn't worth the risk for a non function fake can that could potentially get you ass raped on a daily basis for probably 2-3 years.
Shooting low powered, subsonic Collabri (or whatever) ammo makes it quieter. Shooting it through a longer barrel would make it quieter too.
but it isn't a device designed or added on to the gun to reduce decibles.
I know it is stupid and doesn't make sense, but you really don't want to get raped by thunderdick do you? or pay the fines, or the court fees or put up with the hassle?
I don't have one and don't have to worry about it.
gnihcraes
02-12-2010, 20:18
ok, so I have a GSG but don't know if it's the SD model - what does the SD stand for?
Mine is the carbine with the faux can on it...
Also to add they are not making the GSG any more from my understanding due to losing in court from HK. HK sued the company for making what looks like the MP5 I guess HK won copy right or trades infraction of something. From what I have heard they are now coming out with their own line of .22LR MP5's.
theGinsue
02-12-2010, 20:56
Just visited the American Tactical site and can't find one word on this issue.
Can you tell me where you found this information? I know a couple of folks who aren't on this site who have GSG-5's that I'd like to pass this on to. If I had a direct link to the info that would help a lot.
Now, I think the BATFE going after faux suppressors (which is nothing more than a barrel sleeve) is ridiculous, but most of their policies are. At least American Tactical is resolving this at no expense (outside of the shipping fees) to the owners.
One of the ATI guys posted it on ARFCOM. See my first post, it has a link.
theGinsue
02-12-2010, 21:07
Yeah, I was hoping that ATI had it on their site (like they say they will).
BIG thanks to you Dr_Fwd. You came through once again by providing this info!
It does suck though that a large amount of money is going to be wasted all because of a fake can...that probably hardly does a damn thing. Glad I don't have one to deal with.
Troublco
02-12-2010, 21:19
The thing that gets me is, even if this turns out to be BS, people are so used to really stupid things from the ATF that stuff like this really isn't out of the normal scope of what you'd expect from them. So many stupid arguments that aren't supported by anything but them. They really need to get reined in and focus on real criminals instead of a lot of the crap they do, and drop a lot of their idiotic opinions. [Rant1]
I almost got one of these things; I decided in favor of a .22LR AR upper. Glad I did!
GunTroll
02-12-2010, 21:23
A shop that I work at here in TN was getting its random inspection back in December and one of the agents noticed we had some of these models around. He asked to see it and started searching around on the net for info and showed me what his problem with this thing was. I can't say if he was the first whistle blower or not but he was onto it back then. This was in early Dec. He was more concerned about someone modifying the fake can into a real one more than anything. Also he told me that the example firearm that was showed to the ATF for importation approval did not have a hollow can and obviously they now do.
So this ain't BS! My shop has a few locked up with these fake cans on them and we were told we can not sell these firearms till they are corrected.
The thing that gets me is, even if this turns out to be BS, people are so used to really stupid things from the ATF that stuff like this really isn't out of the normal scope of what you'd expect from them. So many stupid arguments that aren't supported by anything but them. They really need to get reined in and focus on real criminals instead of a lot of the crap they do, and drop a lot of their idiotic opinions. [Rant1]
I almost got one of these things; I decided in favor of a .22LR AR upper. Glad I did!
Yeah I don't see why suppressors are NFA anyways, it would protect peoples hearing, saving money on our health care (sell it to the dems!), it wouldn't annoy people living near gun ranges!, and it wouldn't upset the animals in the woods (sell it to the tree huggers, not so much to PETA though!)
Same with SBR and SBS, the gun does the exact same thing, just a bit short so it can be concealed...oh wait, there are pistols...
theGinsue
02-12-2010, 21:40
I'm with you 100% sniper. Lots of rules just to show that they CAN control us. Sure, I follow all of them but it doesn't mean that I LIKE it!
I've got a GSG-5. Haven't even pulled the trigger on it yet and had it almost a year. I was plannig to take it with me to the Shoot tomorrow, but...
I wouldn't worry about it too much right now, no official paperwork has been seen yet. I will go check the ATF site and see if anything is on there.
just looked on the ATF site and didn't find anything. I'll see what they are saying over on ar15.
ok, so I have a GSG but don't know if it's the SD model - what does the SD stand for?
Mine is the carbine with the faux can on it...
GSG-5P Pistol
http://www.americantactical.us/images/gsg522p1.jpg
GSG-5PK Pistol
http://www.americantactical.us/images/gsg522pk1.jpg
GSG-5 Carbine
http://www.americantactical.us/images/gsg522carbine2.jpg
GSG-5SD Carbine (faux supressor)
http://www.americantactical.us/images/gsg522sd2.jpg
it is the SD model.
nothing confirmed on ar15.com either.
I bet HK put the ATF up to this[Coffee]
GunTroll
02-12-2010, 22:02
You guys doubting me?
Troublco
02-12-2010, 22:04
You guys doubting me?
What? Doubt you? Perish the thought.
[ROFL1]
GunTroll
02-12-2010, 22:08
http://warehousestories.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/dawson-crying.jpg
Screw you guys!
theGinsue
02-12-2010, 22:15
Yeah, I just have the GSG-5 Carbine, not the SD model. Seems to me that if they are going to go after the SD, they'll soon come after the Carbine and anything else with a tube over the barrel.
You guys doubting me?
not at all, I just want to see some official stuff from ATI or the ATF.
you said the ATF came and told you that no GSGs were to be sold?
GunTroll
02-12-2010, 22:16
Sniper.....Only the ones that had this hollow fake can on them. I'm sure we could take it off and sell it but it would look retarded without it IMO.
Guys, I've got this info from ARFCOM. It was posted by one of the ATI guys - thus I think it's true.
it is the SD model.
nothing confirmed on ar15.com either.
I bet HK put the ATF up to this[Coffee]
check the link from my first post.
theGinsue
02-12-2010, 23:03
Guys, I've got this info from ARFCOM. It was posted by one of the ATI guys - thus I think it's true.
I have no doubts at all that this is 100% true.
When I pass info to others I like to show them data directly from the source as much as I can. Since you provided the link to the arfcom post made by the ATI employee, that's legit enough for me.
That said, I would hope (and expect) that ATI will actually put something on their site about this. Otherwise, it just leaves those who own their products swinging in the breeze.
check the link from my first post.
I did, but I don't believe everything I read on ar15, or on the internet for that matter.
I am sure it is valid info, and especially with what guntroll said, but would like to see something official come out from ATI or the ATF
Just visited the American Tactical site and can't find one word on this issue.
Can you tell me where you found this information? I know a couple of folks who aren't on this site who have GSG-5's that I'd like to pass this on to. If I had a direct link to the info that would help a lot.
Now, I think the BATFE going after faux suppressors (which is nothing more than a barrel sleeve) is ridiculous, but most of their policies are. At least American Tactical is resolving this at no expense (outside of the shipping fees) to the owners.
My info has come from two different sources mike down at boulder Gunsport told me the news of what is going on when they called there supplier there were plenty of GSG'S in stock around 300. After this news came to their knowledge they called back they were out in matter of hours and could not order any more. I go to school in NE the gun stores I stop at up here have said the same thing they can't order them anymore. And have told me that there were some legal issues going on with HK and GSG or who makes them based on copying something. This ATF recall on the fake suppressors is news to me.
when i hear two diffrent stores from 400 miles say the same thing i have reason to belive there is somthing going on. it might be caused by the ATF issue with the fake suppressors.
GreenScoutII
02-12-2010, 23:35
The thing that gets me is, even if this turns out to be BS, people are so used to really stupid things from the ATF that stuff like this really isn't out of the normal scope of what you'd expect from them. So many stupid arguments that aren't supported by anything but them. They really need to get reined in and focus on real criminals instead of a lot of the crap they do, and drop a lot of their idiotic opinions. [Rant1]
Fucking BATFE should be immediately disbanded. talk about a useless waste of taxpayer dollars.
I did, but I don't believe everything I read on ar15, or on the internet for that matter.
I am sure it is valid info, and especially with what guntroll said, but would like to see something official come out from ATI or the ATF
The link is to the Customer Service Rep from ATI presenting the statement.
As for the BATFE, they are a total waste. They are duplicity with the FBI. They fight with the FBI for control of firearms-related crime scenes.
They should just be disbanded, or at the very least reabsorbed into the FBI...
theGinsue
02-13-2010, 00:04
My info has come from two different sources mike down at boulder Gunsport told me the news of what is going on when they called there supplier there were plenty of GSG'S in stock around 300. After this news came to their knowledge they called back they were out in matter of hours and could not order any more. I go to school in NE the gun stores I stop at up here have said the same thing they can't order them anymore. And have told me that there were some legal issues going on with HK and GSG or who makes them based on copying something. This ATF recall on the fake suppressors is news to me.
when i hear two diffrent stores from 400 miles say the same thing i have reason to belive there is somthing going on. it might be caused by the ATF issue with the fake suppressors.
I read an official statement more than a month ago (closer to more than 2 months ago) from ATI that they had "reached an agreement with HK" over the GSG-5. The statement indicated that they had to modify the design to be allowed to keep selling them, and that the existing models were only going to be allowed to be sold for a limited time.
I only commented about wanting to see something official from ATI in regards to this SD can issue. I believe that what I'm reading here is legit, but ATI should be posting this info front and center on their site. Anything less is just irresponsible of them.
I read an official statement more than a month ago (closer to more than 2 months ago) from ATI that they had "reached an agreement with HK" over the GSG-5. The statement indicated that they had to modify the design to be allowed to keep selling them, and that the existing models were only going to be allowed to be sold for a limited time.
I only commented about wanting to see something official from ATI in regards to this SD can issue. I believe that what I'm reading here is legit, but ATI should be posting this info front and center on their site. Anything less is just irresponsible of them.
That is basicly what they have told me as well from the dealers. i can't agree with you more on ATI on regards to this can issue. not letting people know is just bad customer service on their part.
gnihcraes
02-13-2010, 05:32
ridge, thanks for the info and pictures of the models. Mine is not the SD, standard carbine, but the can is faux can is still hollowed out on the carbine. I guess it's the diameter of the can on the SD model? Easier to build something else out of it I guess... ???
Keep posting anything you hear... I'll check a local shop saturday who probably knows more info...
I read an official statement more than a month ago (closer to more than 2 months ago) from ATI that they had "reached an agreement with HK" over the GSG-5. The statement indicated that they had to modify the design to be allowed to keep selling them, and that the existing models were only going to be allowed to be sold for a limited time.
I only commented about wanting to see something official from ATI in regards to this SD can issue. I believe that what I'm reading here is legit, but ATI should be posting this info front and center on their site. Anything less is just irresponsible of them.
yeah that was based off the lawsuit HK had against ATI for infringement of their MP5 design and because HK wants to enter the .22 market.
HK won and I believe ATI has until the end of this month to finish making the rest of the GSG guns (don't quote me on the date though).
The fake can actually working is what the letter posted on ar15 was about, but there was no link, nothing on their website, nothing from the ATF. probably because neither knows quite what to do, and frankly there isn't a whole lot they can do because it isn't like a car recall where they can find the owners or follow the titles and let all the owners know.
some guys may only buy 1 guy in their life and it happened to be a GSG and they never go to a gun shop again. There needs to be protection for those people. It isn't their fault (assuming the ATF would actually go after people for this...of course they would...its the ATF).
Hopefully things will die off along with ATI and when the HK .22 comes out it will have a true threaded barrel and no fake cans.
GunTroll
02-13-2010, 10:07
Man, no love from here for the ATF. Why not get onto Congress for coming up with the laws. These agents run around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to figure out the current gun laws which leaves a lot of these agents to "interpret" the laws instead of just enforcing them. We need common sense layman term type laws instead of these loosely written prone to interpretation ones that we have now. I know because I just had a long and thorough talk with an agent about this.
He was explaining to me the manufacturing laws and how little ole me can't make a custom rifle and put it out on the self to sell without getting a manufacturing licence. I said I'm not making the serial numbered receiver. Rather I feel like I'm doing more assembling and customizing. He told me it doesn't matter and when I asked to see written laws to refer to he had to do some digging. As long as I'm commissioned to build a custom rifle I'm good. But I can't just build one for the hell of it and try to sell it now that I'm a FFL. BS!!!!!!! This goes for AR's too! If I buy a complete stripped AR kit and put it together and put it on a shelf.....I'm manufacturing.[Bang]. He showed me on paper where Congress came up with this crap but it was more geared for the big guys but little ole gunsmiths got swallowed into this as well. He kind of gave me a [Wink] on this one for how would anyone know or be able to enforce but I'm not going there. So what I'm getting at is don't hate the messenger. This book of gun laws needs to be purged and cleaned up a bit before anymore laws are written. Hell, these agents don't understand the laws that are on paper now! New ones would just complicate matters. Now, I'm not naive and know that there are agents looking to make a name for themselves with being nit-picky but I feel the majority are just people with a job that we don't often agree with. So email your congressman and give the ATF a break to a degree. You guys do know they use to be part of the Treasury Dept. right? Now they are under the DOJ. So expect more of a law enforcement approach from them. A small branch stayed behind at the Treasury Dept to get revenue. Just saying....
Sorry to go a little into left field or off topic. To stay on topic.....GSG 5's might be cool but fake cans are gay! Air-soft is for kids.
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