View Full Version : 15 Facts About China
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-facts-about-china-that-will-blow-your-mind-2010-2#by-2025-china-will-build-ten-new-york-sized-cities-1
I thought this was really interesting.
I really wish we would begin allowing as many immigrants in as possible. Train them in english, it's a good investment, and our only chance of not being relegated to a position along with Europe and Russia next to the new superpowers of China and India.
Can you really call predictions "facts" though?
ronaldrwl
02-23-2010, 13:29
China is overblown just like USSR and Japan was. More stuf is made in the USA than china. Our economy is much bigger. I know we're screwing up our economy but the china taking over the world thing is not there.
A MACH 10 anti-ship missile? Bullshit.
I call BS on the anti-ship missile as well. Just fear mongering. And having a numerical advantage with your standing army isn't that significant. The Iraqi's had the numerical advantage in both gulf wars and it still didn't help them.
I remember growing up as a kid and everyone fear mongering over how powerful the USSR was and how we we where lagging (circa 1970/80's). I also remember talking heads predicting that Japan was going to simply buy us out and we'd be speaking Japanese and working menial jobs for Jap bosses. We see how that worked out. Russia is a shadow of its former self and Japan makes all its crap in China now.
China will be a force in the 21st century for sure, but they have real problems as well. Massive over-population, pollution, political dissent, etc. I'd be surprised if they actually ever rule the world as everyone is predicting.
A MACH 10 anti-ship missile? Bullshit.
gotta agree
Can you really call predictions "facts" though?
exactly. facts are just that. predictions are mere guesses as to what will be a fact.
it would be like me saying that this year the Yankees are going to win the world series and call it fact until proven otherwise.
exactly. facts are just that. predictions are mere guesses as to what will be a fact.
it would be like me saying that this year the Yankees are going to win the world series and call it fact until proven otherwise.
But they will,,....
jason303
02-23-2010, 14:16
With such a large portion of the population in poverty, I think the potential for internal problems is the biggest roadblock to their feared global domination. That being said, I hope our best and brightest are dead serious about defending our military and civil computer based systems.
Batteriesnare
02-23-2010, 14:39
A MACH 10 anti-ship missile? Bullshit.
Total, utter, smelly bullshit.
It's projections, a bit different than predictions, and certainly not facts. I didn't name the article but I could have picked a better thread post.
The "Mach 10 anti-ship missile" I have heard of before; it's not actually mach 10 I don't know where they got that for this. It's a ballistic missile that can (reportedly) carry a nuclear payload and (this is the important bit) be guided to a target. The idea then is that satellites observe a CBG and guide the nuke in. It's like early ICBM's in terms of range, but add in modern sensing technology.
I wasn't trashing your choice of thread title, you just copied the article title, which is what you're supposed to do.
ChunkyMonkey
02-23-2010, 15:46
It's projections, a bit different than predictions, and certainly not facts. I didn't name the article but I could have picked a better thread post.
The "Mach 10 anti-ship missile" I have heard of before; it's not actually mach 10 I don't know where they got that for this. It's a ballistic missile that can (reportedly) carry a nuclear payload and (this is the important bit) be guided to a target. The idea then is that satellites observe a CBG and guide the nuke in. It's like early ICBM's in terms of range, but add in modern sensing technology.
You are thinking of Hypersonic Missile which the US is working on. It is supposed to have a top cruising speed of 3600mph which is around Mach 5. Some of those guidance system is probably being worked on locally here in Centennial, CO :)
No, I'm talking about this, which is probably where the "Mach 10" came from...
https://www.usni.org/forthemedia/ChineseKillWeapon.asp
Anyone know if USNI is reputable? Not sure if it's actually part of the government, a think tank of some kind, or just a scam to sell crap.
http://hongkong.usconsulate.gov/uploads/images/pAw-Xhv1qHB7cBNrkQbc3A/uscn_others_2008030301.pdf
Page 12, search for ASBM or anti-ship ballistic in your pdf viewer.
This one is probably the least credible based on just quick looking, but discusses other threats
http://www.defensereview.com/chinese-anti-ship-ballistic-missile-asbm-kill-weapon-flummoxes-us-navy/
SA Friday
02-23-2010, 16:04
Mach 10 = 7680 mi/hr.
The external tanks come off of a shuttle launch when traveling at aprox 17,440 mi/hr.
The SR-71 released speed is Mach 3.2, (Aprox 2460 mi/hr).
China is the only other country with GPS satellites in orbit.
China has a policy of letting their citizens immigrate to the USA. They also have a program to enforce loyality to China from those immigrants for generations after the immigration. Remember Los Alamos?
China is the number one country in the world at technology espionage.
China's Govt has forecasted and planned for a war with the USA estimated for 2030.
Bet none of those facts were in that list...
FACT: China enjoys taking long, candle light baths in our money.
cowboykjohnson
02-23-2010, 16:13
China enjoys taking long, candle light baths in our money.and long walks on the beach?[ROFL1]
I was originally going to say long walks on our economy, but it didn't make sense.
cowboykjohnson
02-23-2010, 16:21
They enjoy making woks and selling them to us to stimulate their economy!
I'm guessing the Mach 10 speeds referenced here happen when it's in the exosphere.
I didn't know China had it's own GPS, but I know that Japan has a localized one, Russia has a lower-resolution global system called GLONASS, and the EU Galileo project is still moving forward. Galileo should provide the best resolution yet, at least until the next generation NavStar birds are up.
Also differential GPS, essentially multiple GPS units in known locations on a vessel can produce accuracy under a foot.... I just found that out the other week.
I'm guessing the Mach 10 speeds referenced here happen when it's in the exosphere.
That is pretty much the only time it would be possible to get a missile up to that kind of speed. And that would put it too close to the GPS satellites to be accurate. And it could not very well evade our radar from an altitude of 30 miles...
GreenScoutII
02-23-2010, 16:54
Well, this article is has some positives and some negatives as far as thier interaction with the US and the rest of the world is concerned.
I personally have greater concern about China and it's global ambitions than I do Islamic terrorism over the long term. I think the biggest threat China poses militarily is not any theoretical mach 10 missle, but rather their massive industrial capacity. They have more and more modern factories than we do hands down. They also posess vast natural resources. Their ability to manufacture more tanks, ships, guns, missles and other munitions is staggering. Even if our weapons are technologically superior, at some point the sheer numbers will favor China. As such, an American victory in a confrontation with China is not necessarily a foregone conclusion.
Industrial capacity here at home has been in decline for decades. We have been told it is too expensive to produce many things domestically and too many of us have bought into this myth. It may be cheaper to manufacture a lot of things overseas initially, but it is extremely short sighted to think that we won't end up paying the real cost later.
We should never forget that China is still a communist country. They have made many revisions to their economic model which emulate capitalism over the years, but their core philosophy is still a totalitarian approach to government.
This is a very sore subject for me and one I have thought a lot about. Thank you for posting such a thought provoking article Hoosier.
china will not be a problem. they are as much controlled by us as we are by them. militarily they don't scare me one bit. in the nuclear age numbers don't mean squat.
Funny thing is, china was our only ally in Red Dawn.
Somebody told me once that china was the biggest threat the U.S. will ever face, bigger than the soviet union and twice as powerful, practically unbeatable with their million man army.
I said sure, they have a huge army. How are they going to get anywhere? In armor? Trucks? By walking?
The air force has a name for troop concentrations: targets.
The Chinese ARE the enemy in the remake they are doing right now...
http://www.reddawn2010.com/images/stories/sign2.jpg
Not_A_Llama
02-24-2010, 01:02
We should never forget that China is still a communist country. They have made many revisions to their economic model which emulate capitalism over the years, but their core philosophy is still a totalitarian approach to government.
Let me provide a little background here to qualify my point. In about five thousand recorded years of history, China has almost without exception been a collection of kingdoms and empires. It's an intrinsic governance pattern that fits China well. Chinese people are, on the whole, probably the MOST naturally/purely/brutally capitalistic people you will find ANYWHERE, and without tight governmental control, shit gets out of hand very quickly.
Coming into the birth of the CCP and the formation of the PRC, you had your core contingent of Maoists, who actually believed in communism and its ideals, along with a great number of fellow travelers who found a power channel, and decided to follow along. With the exception of the cultural revolution, the Chinese economy has largely functioned as a capitalistic system underneath some high level communist-type controls. Actually, I'd argue it still was (perhaps moreso) during the revolution.
After Deng Xiaoping's reforms in the 80s, China's government effectively shed any communist operational paradigms. In Chinese business and society today, you'll find that governmental rules on paper may forbid certain commercial activities, but if you keep a low profile, avoiding the embarrassment of government officials, or are able to grease the right palms, you are commercially free to do ANYTHING. Piss off or embarrass the right officials, though, and you're sent home to your family in a bag, with a bill for the bullet in your head.
Here's where we stand today: The Chinese government is as uncommunist an organization as you can find anywhere on earth. I will even contend that as we view our country here today, America is more socialist/communist than China could hope to be. The "communist" government today is merely an extension of the historical monarchical governmental model, adapted for a modern world, where having an actual concentration of power in the public figurehead is dangerous. It's just monarchy, distributed. So yes, I agree that it's totalitarian, but please don't confuse that with "communist". The "Communism" is just dressing to keep the peasants in line.
A lot of the figures linked in the original article are factual statements of projective figures. That's all right, but it was a common thread in fears of Japan in the 80s. Some of that's going on here. Urban grown is suspect, the growth of Christianity is suspect*, and the remark somewhere about mach 10 missiles is suspect. That said, China has a lot more stamina and momentum behind it than Japan did, and China has a lot longer to go before they hit the limiting equilibrium that Japan exceeded so dramatically. They've been dormant for a long time, and I think you'd be foolish to ignore some very rapid world power changes that're coming. One BILLION people makes a big, big difference.
Actually, I'll close like this. China's military strength is growing fast, and it's scary. Here's what's scarier: America's loss of resolve and the sapping of this country's capabilities by liberal leadership and constituency.
China may or may not win on growth, but they'll DEFINITELY win on America's self-grown demise.
*The growth of christianity I consider especially worth discussing, in light of some comments I've heard from conservative radio commentators. It's nothing - a blip. The chinese government tolerates the religion, at best. If christians show any indication of anti-governmental activity, the country will be eradicated of the religion. Secret police run way too deep in the "house church" movement. If you want to look at future threats, look more towards the migrant labor problem. THAT one WILL blow up.
ronaldrwl
02-24-2010, 15:08
War with china [Roll1]
They are not foreign warmongers. If we don't poop on their sidewalk they will leave us alone.
I don't disagree with anything you said but I get nervous when applying common sense or American sensibilities to other countries. Often they don't equate.
But in the end, I'm more worried about what we're doing to ourselves, and less so with China.
.
One of the more interesting facets about China that doesn't seem to have been addressed and one that I think America's foreign policy is an abject failure on is Africa.
China is a historically far looking society. They are by any measure playing a much longer game than the West is. America is at the forefront of that failure. While China as a landmass has an obscene reserve of natural resources, they are taking a page from the American play book. Pilfer the resources of others first, so what if it costs a little bit to buy your way into those resources. In China's case that purchase cost is fractional infrastructure in those African countries.
Look at the last 5-10 years and you can easily identify where China has spend its money buying up metal, oil and gas and foundational technologies. All the while they fund Western (the US isn't the only country they lend to) debt and utilize that debt (and promise of continued funding of said debt) as leverage to obtain better and more favorable trade status. Additionally they utilize that financial leverage to ensure Western powers turn a blind eye to the literal rape of African natural resources.
Militarily, gentlemen, do not delude yourselves into believing that China is a repeat of the USSR. For those who remember and or served during the cold war, you all know as well as I that the USSR was far more than a legitimate threat to both Europe and CONUS. The greatest concern we should have is the modernization of China's military. That modernization is multifaceted and is focused primarily in to major area's; the Air Force and Navy.
While there are incremental modernization efforts for ground based forces such as a current generation tank, APC, attack helicopter and small arms; the greatest advancements are in the air and water.
A blue water Navy is something very significant for any power that wishes to reach and control any place beyond its own physical borders. China has gone beyond purchasing surplus Russian hardware to fully developing their own designs and technologies. Those technologies, while not on current parity with US and EU designs, are quickly achieving a level of threat that cannot be ignored. The Chines have what they claim is a 5th Generation fighter in development. While the US F-35 is its closest analog, the US F-22 and the yet named X series drone fighters could and should be considered the 6th and 7th generation platforms. FYI the F-22 and F-35 are both roughly considered 5th generation due to their inherent stealth and super cruise capabilities.
No gentlemen (and ladies) China is a multifaceted threat that should not be constrained to any single area be it political, financial, space based, militarily or industrial. Open your minds to the bigger picture and the threat of China quickly followed by India should give you pause.
America is a sleeping giant, I doubt any polity doubts that. The question many of those governments ask themselves is "how to we keep America asleep or push it into comma?"
Sadly, until we have a government that can realize (and execute) that both foreign and domestic policies must balance, we are driving deeper into sleep and eventual comma.
hmm.... Bear goes RRAAWR!!!!
Pistol Packing Preacher
02-25-2010, 10:21
As I read this thread...
I drink coffee from a cup made in...
China!
Maybe the cup is poisoning me!
[Coffee]
As I read this thread...
I drink coffee from a cup made in...
China!
Maybe the cup is poisoning me!
[Coffee]
Actually [ROFL2]
true story though, for those of us who had duty tours in Korea the Korean Government gives every soldier a souvenir coffee mug, which you are promptly warned not to drink from because the glaze is not sealed well and will poison you.
Gotta love the ROK
Actually [ROFL2]
true story though, for those of us who had duty tours in Korea the Korean Government gives every soldier a souvenir coffee mug, which you are promptly warned not to drink from because the glaze is not sealed well and will poison you.
Gotta love the ROK
IS that ROK Govt issued mug also made in China?
IS that ROK Govt issued mug also made in China?
Damn well could have been, I'd have to find it again to check [Beer]
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