stay or bug out?

[Ak47Ar15Glock26]

if SHTF and stores closed, people riot, hungry people act like zombies, etc. what would you choose to do? head for the hills? or stay home and barracade? thats a serious question. ive thought about lots of scenarios, but whats you guys thoughts?

[jpmiller]

I'd start making tinfoil hats.........

[Hoosier]

Depends on whats happening. You have to have flexibility in your plans. Is it something limited to your city? Is it nationwide? Contagious? Riots? Fires, Earthquake? I guess it would be good to come up with some categories of threats. If you had to evacuate your city, would the roads be clogged? Are there alternate routes out? Is the cell network up?

I live in the boondocks, so my inclination is to bug in, but if I had to load up the vehicles and get out I could. I'm trying to make sure everything I need is portable, anyway. I don't know where I'd go, probably west into the mountains.

[sabot_round]

I'll dig in!! [Twist]

[SA Friday]

Eventually, it all boils down to supplies....

[GreenScoutII]

Part of my reason for moving to the country is a desire to be as self sufficent as possible. I have good land for agricultural purposes so we can grow a decent garden, raise chickens and pigs, etc. Problem is water or lack there of.

It would depend on what happened and where. Probably i'd be better off sitting it out where I am.

[sabot_round]

I inventory my bunker weekly!!

[Ak47Ar15Glock26]

my lease runs out soon, and i think i want to move away from the busy city in the springs. if looting and chaos ever did break out, food would be gone in a matter of hours. and there is little wildlife in my neighborhood. i wish there was a lake near by. i guess the mountians would be the best place to be, if you were secluded.

[Ridge]

Depends on the situation and your stocks of supplies. If your home is still standing and livable, and you have more supplies than you can carry, I'd rather bug in. If your home does not offer adequate defense from the elements and secondary catastrophies such as extreme weather, fire, etc, I would exit as soon as was safely possible.

[Beprepared]

The stay or go question? As stated obviously depends on your situation. Is the problem localized or not? For me personally, I live in the mountains. In a tight knit well defended neighborhood which is quit isolated (very close to south shooting site). 2mi away from decent water, but we couldn't grow much. My biggest fear in a survival situation is not supplies so to speak, or looting. But the MUCH greater chance of FIRE. One small mistake in someones house, barn, garage, campfire, and there goes the forest and your resources. If a fire is coming can you still bug out after you've been in survival mode for weeks/years? Do you have enough fuel to get out. More questions to think about. Good conversation.

[ColoEnthusiast]

Ironic this was brought up. I've been thinking alot lately about staying in the urban area where we live versus going to a rural location. As mentioned, you can only carry so much. At least at home, you have the safety and comforts of home. Even without heat, it's hard to beat the shelter of a house.
My concerns of a catastrophe, I feel, would tend to involve some sort of food and/or fuel supply shortage. May not be able to grow much in urban areas without a large yard, but a family could store enough food for quite a long time. Cities tend to have plenty of water, electricity and natural gas too. To keep all hell from breaking loose, at least some of those services would have to be kept on.
As for defense, if people were trying to steal what others have, the city offers the advantage of more people to protect each other. In a rural area, many people would not have assistance of next door and community neighbors closeby to help defend their property. Looking at things from the perspective of a bad guy, it would probably be more desireable to lay seige on a lone house than on a house within a community that has made preparations and is protecting one another... Putting warning signs on the entry points of a community would likely be quite effective, especially if ingress and egress could be limited.
On the bizarre side, I have heard and read of several really stupid gun owners state that they would "take what they needed" in a crisis. Anyone have some opinions on the life expectancy of these morons?

[theGinsue]

My biggest concern with the "staying put" idea is that it might not be viable for longer term living. If you have to bug out later, as BePrepared asked, will you have the resources to make the move?

Let's say you have the resources. What are the chanced that others have barricaded/set up ambushes on travel routes to more secure bug-out points? What are the chances that others have already taken up residence in the location that YOU have chosen for your bug-out location?

Waiting to move until later might be smart, then again, it might just be the amount of time necessary for others to lay their traps.

[ChunkyMonkey]

My biggest concern with the "staying put" idea is that it might not be viable for longer term living. If you have to bug out later, as BePrepared asked, will you have the resources to make the move?

Let's say you have the resources. What are the chanced that others have barricaded/set up ambushes on travel routes to more secure bug-out points? What are the chances that others have already taken up residence in the location that YOU have chosen for your bug-out location?

Waiting to move until later might be smart, then again, it might just be the amount of time necessary for others to lay their traps.


STOOOPPPPPP... You are making me rethink my master plan!!

[SSChameleon]

I'm prepared to stay as long as I can. Things would have to be so bad that I could no longer run my business before I would leave. I'm not up for the 'run for the mountains' thing. If I have bug out it will be to another state or another country.

Think about the sequence of events leading up to a situation that is so bad you would leave your home. If it's a natural disaster (tornado, earthquake, fire, etc.) it will be localized and the best option is to drive to your in-laws/friends in another state for awhile. Or send the wife and kids while I stay behind and start putting life back together.

If it's economic it will not turn anarchy overnight. It will take at least a few weeks if not months. If things start going real bad I have set trigger events that would prompt me to leave the country all together. I have friends in Canada and Germany I could stay with.

Looking back at the great depression and what happens when other country's economies collapsed it is unlikely that I would bug out. More than likely my business would contract but still run and I could move to a gated community or get an alarm for the house and stay put. When the economy goes south crime goes up drastically but even in Russia and Argentina no one turned into zombies.

In order to make running for the hills a good choice it would have to be a significant event. I'm talking total world nuclear war or a russian/chinese invasion. Even these events would likely have a week or two warning while nations pound their chests and make threats. Unless the nuclear attack was by terrorist which would still, most likely, be a localized event. This is really the only scenario where I would pack the car with food, water and ammo and run for the hills and it's very unlikely.

My plan is based on the circle defense (mentioned in another post) where I have a 72 hour kit prepared for natural disasters and temporary displacement. For anything longer than 72 hours I have plans to stay as long as possible.

[Delfuego]

Not one person mentioned Red Dawn. Really? Hollywood gave me my plan years ago....

Wolverines!!!![Para][Sniper]

[SA Friday]

Not one person mentioned Red Dawn. Really? Hollywood gave me my plan years ago....

Wolverines!!!![Para][Sniper]
That might be because we're talking about staying alive in disaster situations for the most part. War is a different animal, and the chances of a CONUS wartime invasion is literally zero. Even the Japanese knew that as early as 1942.

[jason303]

I am one of the "in" crowd, mainly because I don't have anywhere to go. Staying home has it's upside clearly, but I think it can't be sustained long term. Something I didn't think of until I watched the after armageddon show which you've probably seen, even after the first waves of scavengers go house to house, in the long run scavengers will still be combing through the huge junk pile of urban areas. When the supplies run out, you'd have to become a part of some kind of agricultural community. There's not space in my backyard for that. Lastly, I think Colorado would be particularly challenging given the climate and soil.

[refryguy]

I'd be taking over and clearing out the nearest Walmart. Get a bunch of friends together to barracade ourselves in. Plenty of supplies and a fully stocked workshop to armor up some vehicles for recon if needed. hahah, just kidding, it would be hard to defend but if you had a big enough group you could do it.

[Beprepared]

I'd be taking over and clearing out the nearest Walmart. Get a bunch of friends together to barracade ourselves in. Plenty of supplies and a fully stocked workshop to armor up some vehicles for recon if needed. hahah, just kidding, it would be hard to defend but if you had a big enough group you could do it.

HYPOTHETICALLY...front of store has 3 entrances, all other doors are very secure exit doors....hmmmmmm[ROFL2]

[jason303]

HYPOTHETICALLY...front of store has 3 entrances, all other doors are very secure exit doors....hmmmmmm[ROFL2]


Auto shop, garden center, very few windows to lob a firebomb through, you all may be onto something here. I hope you have a BIG group of friends. Everyone goes to Walmart.

And a nice flat roof to shoot from.

[Ak47Ar15Glock26]

walmarts, safeways, food stores , 7/11s, etc would be looted by so many people, but i think youre right anyway. even though foods would be stolen first, many supplies would still be there. but other people would have your idea and claim walmart as home, you would have to evict those muhfuggas!! lol

[Seamonkey]

Dawn of the Dead anyone? But that was with zombies and a shopping mall

Make sure the Wally world is one with plenty of .22 ammo. That and a couple of 10/22 from the rooftop should discourage raiders. I mean other raiders, not the ones you, I mean, we, would be displacing.

Garden center with supplies to start growing your food, sports department with plenty of fun stuff to set traps, clothes, pillows, blankets, pharmacy, chain the shopping carts together for a barricade ...

Why stock pile at my house when Wally world already has it all? hmmm... think I'm going to have to revise my plan...

[jerrymrc]

Dawn of the Dead anyone? But that was with zombies and a shopping mall

Make sure the Wally world is one with plenty of .22 ammo. That and a couple of 10/22 from the rooftop should discourage raiders. I mean other raiders, not the ones you, I mean, we, would be displacing.

Garden center with supplies to start growing your food, sports department with plenty of fun stuff to set traps, clothes, pillows, blankets, pharmacy, chain the shopping carts together for a barricade ...

Why stock pile at my house when Wally world already has it all? hmmm... think I'm going to have to revise my plan...

Good luck with that.

[jason303]

Dawn of the Dead anyone? But that was with zombies and a shopping mall

Make sure the Wally world is one with plenty of .22 ammo. That and a couple of 10/22 from the rooftop should discourage raiders. I mean other raiders, not the ones you, I mean, we, would be displacing.

Garden center with supplies to start growing your food, sports department with plenty of fun stuff to set traps, clothes, pillows, blankets, pharmacy, chain the shopping carts together for a barricade ...

Why stock pile at my house when Wally world already has it all? hmmm... think I'm going to have to revise my plan...

Walmart is the plan for everyone that's not planning ahead so it will be crowded. Good luck. Avoid places that sell big TVs. Thats what people seem to run short of in an emergency situation from what I've seen the news.
[Coffee]

[theGinsue]

Damn Jason, you stole my thunder. Look at Katrina to see how people think. You've got an entire city under water, no electricity and people are stealing TV's. The same thing was just reported as happening in Chile'. Of course, you have plenty of folks smart enough to go after the food as well, but TV's? Really?


When the economy goes south crime goes up drastically but even in Russia and Argentina no one turned into zombies.

Well, not that you know anyway. The media didn't report everything you know.


walmarts, safeways, food stores , 7/11s, etc would be looted by so many people, but i think youre right anyway. even though foods would be stolen first, many supplies would still be there. but other people would have your idea and claim walmart as home, you would have to evict those muhfuggas!! lol

I disagree; partially. See my first comment above. While I believe that there will be plenty of insightful folks who will focus on what is really important, those folks will have to keep from getting trampled by those getting the electronics and Wal*Mart's "high fashion" items.

[Beprepared]

Well, not that you know anyway. The media didn't report everything you know.
KATRINA- The media focused its attention on the SuperDome. What it chose not to cover was the Convention Center. There were many accounts of the gang banger rule of law. Many reports of gang rape and theft and murder. None of which can of coarse be substantiated. I believe this is where Aaron Neville's daughter was gang raped. He swore he'd never go back. Food for thought.

And as far as I'm concerned CRACKHEADS are zombies!!!

[Ak47Ar15Glock26]

yea, walmart isnt a place i plan on visiting during disaster, also something else i thought of.... it wouldnt be a bad idea to keep some spare lumber, boards, and nails in the garage just in case. like he said, CRACKHEADS are ZOMBIES.

[KevDen2005]

I thought the zombie movie with the mall was just called "The Mall"?

[Ak47Ar15Glock26]

I thought the zombie movie with the mall was just called "The Mall"?
lol i think that was the bootleg version

[KevDen2005]

I guess I better update myself on the Zombie Movies

[shaun]

you guys should go on youtube and check out Mrlockandload. see what he has to say. he has alot about WROL, SHTF, bug out, ect..

[jerrymrc]

Are you planning on posting this in every thread???

[shaun]

i put this in this thread and then thought why not just make a thread of it. just tryin to help.

[MichiganMilitia]

Dawn of the Dead anyone? But that was with zombies and a shopping mall

Make sure the Wally world is one with plenty of .22 ammo. That and a couple of 10/22 from the rooftop should discourage raiders. I mean other raiders, not the ones you, I mean, we, would be displacing.

Garden center with supplies to start growing your food, sports department with plenty of fun stuff to set traps, clothes, pillows, blankets, pharmacy, chain the shopping carts together for a barricade ...

Why stock pile at my house when Wally world already has it all? hmmm... think I'm going to have to revise my plan...

It's true, Walmart DOES have just about everything you'd need to sustain life (fairly comfortable life) for a long time, assuming that the building is still structurally sound and secure. Honestly though... you'd have to be inside Walmart when the SHTF, and you'd probably need at least 30 people on your side to clear out, secure, and sustain Wally World as your homestead. Good luck.

It sure would be exciting and it makes good movies, but I don't want to be anywhere near a Walmart when the SHTF.

[brokenscout]

I just bought 50 acres in to mountains,got tired of thinking about it.Trying to be more proactive.And theres coyotes to shoot all year long.If the SHTF where I live now??????????????????

[BushMasterBoy]

I'd love to have 50 acres in the mountains with a shipping container converted to a cabin...

[jerrymrc]

I'd love to have 50 acres in the mountains with a shipping container converted to a cabin...

I would prefer to have a couple of them built into the hillside myself. Just thinking out loud. ;)

[Mtn.man]

Think the city folks should stay and hold tight as they will start in the cities first. By the time they get here we should have enough reinforcements to make a difference.

[theGinsue]

I would prefer to have a couple of them built into the hillside myself. Just thinking out loud. ;)


Agreed. Built into the hilside you've got lots more protection from the elements as well as attacks. Any time you can limit your exposed surfaces you're in a more defensible position.

[brokenscout]

I've just been getting quotes on the 20 or 40 foot storage containers.

[Mtn.man]

I thought it was pretty neat on one of the channels about unusual homes.
Where the guy bought an old missle silo and turned it into a home. Now that's security.

[rforsythe]

I thought it was pretty neat on one of the channels about unusual homes.
Where the guy bought an old missle silo and turned it into a home. Now that's security.

True though don't you need to have power to run the air pumps and probably some sump pumps? You'd have some air for a while (especially with a small # of people - those places are huge), but at some point running a generator will become inconvenient or impossible. Also what if someone gets pissed off that you're in there and just rams a car into the blast door so you can't open it? Now it's your own personal 45,000sqft tomb.

It'd be great for some scenarios, but has vulnerabilities like anything else.

[Beprepared]

I thought it was pretty neat on one of the channels about unusual homes.
Where the guy bought an old missle silo and turned it into a home. Now that's security.

http://www.missilebases.com/properties

This old Titan 1 is for sale 20 minutes from Denver for a mere 2.8 million.

[jerrymrc]

http://www.missilebases.com/properties

This old Titan 1 is for sale 20 minutes from Denver for a mere 2.8 million.

And it has been for sale for years.

[ldmaster]

Definitely.

On the timing of stuff and the idea that things could go on for a while, I was reminded of a lesson from wildland firefighter training.

"the safest area to be in during a wildfire, is in the area that has already burned"

If there are scavengers, looters (government and non-government) once they think they've raped an area - there should be far less acquisitive activity in your area. Caching - that's the key - sorta like the idea of carrying two wallets, one to give up if you get robbed, have a mini-cache or store your goods in a unitized manner - pull out only enough to make it seem that if you DO get robbed or "collected" it will seem as if they've scored and they move on. No way I'd be in a bug-in situation with no visible means of day to day supply, the zombies you can shoot, the government quislings you can't - but they'll insist on their right to seize whatever they can find.

Once things get raided in the cities, the official and unofficial thieves will move into the country - so I don't believe remoteness will in any way affect your risk of a raid - in fact I think it will increase it, and living in an urban setting there's lot of "terrain" (i.e. buildings and stuff) to use as remote observation posts. If I were a bad guy looking for a property to rip off in the country, you can BET I'll scout it first - and since you're remote, as a bad guy, I'm going to snipe you before I raid you.

I like the urban setting, simply because of the opportunities to hide it presents to defenders - and population density in the city under long term conditions will mean there are more survivors that thought like I did, those survivors will form a mutual defense pact with me.

If a bear farts in the woods, nobody hears it - same for a goblin-raider trying to kill you.

urban, bug in, simple and you dont run the risk of losing your bug out location to those who knew of it's location, and got there before you did. Because for every well prepared cabin in the woods, there are several locals you have never seen - who've already found it exists.

When/if some form of government arises - it will be in urban areas, if there are any medical resources available, it will be in urban areas. We DO need one another in many ways that are impossible to plan/prep for if you're going into an isolated area.

[Eow]

If it's economic it will not turn anarchy overnight. It will take at least a few weeks if not months...Looking back at the great depression and what happens when other country's economies collapsed it is unlikely that I would bug out. More than likely my business would contract but still run and I could move to a gated community or get an alarm for the house and stay put. When the economy goes south crime goes up drastically but even in Russia and Argentina no one turned into zombies.


What is different about America today than during the depression, and different from those other countries is that hardly anyone has any 'real life' skills here any more. Very few people know how to hunt or gather their own food any more, know how to fix and fabricate things. I think things will start to unravel very quickly as people get hungry and desperate.

[theGinsue]

Even for those who might have the skills, the availability of the necessary tools for accomplishing things without power just isn't there. Without power (gasoline, diesel fuel, electricity, etc), everything will have to be done either by hand or animal power. this requires a whole different set of tools than we currently have available in mainstream society; the Amish have the tools. Unfortunatley, the Amish won't be available to teach the rest of us how to make those tools since they are pacifists and will likely be killed in short order to have their food and possessions stolen.

[SA Friday]

Even for those who might have the skills, the availability of the necessary tools for accomplishing things without power just isn't there. Without power (gasoline, diesel fuel, electricity, etc), everything will have to be done either by hand or animal power. this requires a whole different set of tools than we currently have available in mainstream society; the Amish have the tools. Unfortunatley, the Amish won't be available to teach the rest of us how to make those tools since they are pacifists and will likely be killed in short order to have their food and possessions stolen.
See. Just another reason kidnapping an amish family to envelope into my community after everything swirls the bowl... They won't like me killing all the raiders, but they will like living.

[RobertB]

Now THAT, sir, is some brilliant, out of the box thinking! :D

[theGinsue]

See. Just another reason kidnapping an amish family to envelope into my community after everything swirls the bowl... They won't like me killing all the raiders, but they will like living.


Now THAT, sir, is some brilliant, out of the box thinking! :D


The two of you are scaring me. Can I tell you that? Yeah, scaring me.

[bobbyfairbanks]

Scary but very smart

[Irving]

Funny he said that. I've been thinking about making a joke post about just bugging out to Pennsylvania and seeing if anyone got it.