Aluminum vs. Steel?

[Troublco]

Just curious; has anyone noticed any differences between them? The only thing I've noticed is that the Black polymer finish scratches off fairly easily. Other than that they seem to work well. I just don't have enough experience with them (yet) to have found anything else.

[cowboykjohnson]

I've dropped a few aluminum ones before, and they get less reliable each time they hit the ground. I'm a fan of steel.

[sabot_round]

I have used both. I really like the steel HK's because they perform flawless. On the other hand, I have been to combat a time or two with the same set of USGI mags. As long as you maintain them, they will take care of you. My $0.02

[Hannu]

I have used both. I really like the steel HK's because they perform flawless.

+1

H&K is the only one that has not caused any malfunctions with me.

Milspec alu mags are ok, if you replace them before they will start malfunction :)

[Hoser]

+1

H&K is the only one that has not caused any malfunctions with me.
Just dont drop them unless you want them to self-dissassemble... Thats the main reason Uncle Sam dropped them.

[SA Friday]

Metals bend and retain the new form. Polymers don't. I was issed and carried magpul mags in Iraq. They are light and reliable.

Aluminum's work until the feed lips are jacked and then they are light paper weights. Steel mags just suck to carry and use.

[Troublco]

Thanks for all the input. I have some of each, but the last year or so I've been getting some of the Magpuls. I have some steel for my 6.5 Grendel which are heavy, but I'll only carry the 5 rounders for hunting so no worries on the weight.

[Hannu]

Pmags last sometimes ~1000 rounds, sometimes less. I remember, few ones I tested in winter lasted around 500-600 rounds before feeding lips started to broke.
Worst thing is, when they break, you gonna have 2-3 rounds going to chamber at the same time :( I do not use them in matches, so have only experienced it while testing/training :)

If you have fast cycling rifle, you can not use pmags or other plastic ones - they just do not lift rounds up fast enough. Too much friction between rounds and plastic ? I do not know...

Have dropped H&K mags perhaps ~1000 times, never seen them disassemble or break just because you dropped it, like Pmags and alu mags. That problem Hoser described may be with some very early H&K mag type ?

One very good thing with H&K is, you can load your ammo about .05" longer, which makes huge difference with some bullets.

These experiences are from a guy who has been done some shooting with AR-15, but never carried it long times on foot patrol. I have had issued AR-15 (Colt Commando) only once. It was more than 10 years ago, can not remember what mags we had then :) Carried more commonly Sako M62, Sako M95, Galil SAR, Uzi, ak-74su, Sig 551 Swat, Sig 552.... Never even thought magazine weight, but we then moved about 98% of time in different kinds of vehicles.

If you carry 10 mags + other gear on foot patrol daily basis, you might have different point of view ;)

[Irving]

Subscribed for inevitable e-fight.

[SA Friday]

Hannu, interesting stuff. I have ran p-mags in full auto's and SAWS and haven't ever had a problem. I have not ran them in an ar with a LMOS in it thought. I could see a p-mag having issues feeding with a LMOS, but I would suspect it's because the spring is too strong and the LMOS can't fully overcome the friction vs the round not coming up fast enough. I can't see the cyclic rate of a semi being over the SAW's rate.

The SAW does like to eat followers though...

[cowboykjohnson]

Subscribed for inevitable e-fight.
+1

[Hannu]

What does this really mean ?


Subscribed for inevitable e-fight.

Usually, military guns have noticeably slower cyclic rate than good IPSC / 3-gun etc. match rifles.
By cyclic rate I mean, how fast rifle is making one cycle. We can say it way, how many rounds a rifle can fire in theory during one minute if it would have 2000 rd mag :)

When we took hi-speed camera photos about AR-15 rifles cycling, typical 20" match rifle cycle time was about 30-35% faster when compared to stock 20" milspec rifle. S&B 55gr bulk factory ammo from the same box, of course :)
What is problem with Pmag (and many other mags), is that mag can not lift top round up fast enough - bolt will hit the round somewhere to the side.

With some ammunition types / rifles, there have been the same problem with 100% stock rifles also. I have seen people replacing Pmags with better springs - helps for some time, but mag lips will break up a lot faster. I think, they can not put very strong spring to Pmag without making Glock-style mag with steel feeding lips.


I would say, Pmag is probably the best polymer AR-15 magazine available. Is that good or bad, everyone has to decide by themselves :)

When you want to build a good match rifle, you want it to cycle fast and sharp = fast sight picture recovery. That is why many people use lightweight moving parts but original return spring - bolt/carrier/buffer assembly is spending much less time slammed bottom of a buffer tube and will accelerate faster forwards = faster cycle.

If you have problems that bolt does not have enough power to take round from the mag, your rifles moving parts weight/travel/spring weight etc. are out of balance.

It is whole another thing with mags is when temperature gets below 30 degrees, more about that maybe later :)

[sniper7]

I have used them all and haven't had any magazine problems the entire time I have shot ARs.
I have not had an HK mag because I never wanted to pay the price of them, but handling them they seem like excellent quality.

I mostly just use my Pmags now. they a nice and smooth, feed reliably and don't mind to be dropped.

the only issue I have with the PMAG is it seems like they don't accept my longer handloads quite as well as the GI mags, so i had to work up a different shorter load because of it. (the pdogs don't know any difference when they explode though[Muaha])

[sniper7]

What does this really mean ?


Just means there is going to be a good discussion, maybe heated about a certain topic on the internet! On ar15.com, if the thread lasts long enough, it usually ends up with more than 1 person being banned and the thread getting locked!

[Irving]

Hannu, there are a lot of people who love magpul products and think they can do no wrong, so when you posted your experience about how they didn't work for you, I expected all the fan boys to crawl out of the wood work and yell at you for what you said. I sometimes forget that this isn't AR15.com and that probably won't happen here. I'd love to see this fight over there though. lol

[SA Friday]

I can see a JP LMOS having the issues Hannu is talking about. Like I said, I haven't played with the LMOS systems at all. I understand the parts and concepts very well, but that's different than getting out there and playing with them at the higher speeds that shooting competitions happen at.

There is such a following for Pmags because they do work well for the most part. The one thing many overlook is when a pmag craps the bed, it's visually obvious. The feed lip chips, cracks, breaks... When an aluminium or steel mage craps the bed, you usually can't tell till it's in the gun and causing all kinds of grief. Tactically, it makes a lot of sense to carry the pmags. They are cheap and easy to just throw away and get another one. Competition wise, I can see using aluminium and steel mags simply for the longevity. I just hate checking feed lips all the time... Every time I qualified for the AF, I would pull mags out and start measuring the feed lips. Everyone thought I was nuts (...maybe just a little), but I very rarely had problems when qualifying.

I have both pmags and aluminum mags in my armada like arsenal [Tooth]. I'll pass on the HK mags and steel ones. I just don't shoot AR's enough to warrant the expense. If I ever get financially stable again after college, I might look into rounding out my gear and getting out to a match or two. Things might change then. For the average shooter, I really don't see a need for the steel mags.

[Troublco]

This went a lot further than I thought it would, but a great bunch of info. I like the steel mags I have for my Grendel, but they are a bit heavier. I doubt if I'd go out of my way to get the same for my other rifles, with the possible exception of my .458. I have plenty of GI aluminum and PMags, and I see no reason to think those won't work fine. I do check the way the follower sits on the spring to make sure on my GI 20's I don't get the nosedive on the follower, and I inspect the feedlips regularly but I can't remember when I had a problem as long as I took care of my mags. Of course, I try not to drop mine either. That's what cargo pockets or dump bags are for.

Sorry you didn't get a fight, Irving. Well, not really, but I didn't really expect one on here anyhow!

[sabot_round]

Here ia a LINK (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Lancer-L5-AR-15-Magazines-p/lancer%20l5%2030%20smoke.htm) to a product that I wouldn't mind trying.[Beer]

[cowboykjohnson]

Had a write up about them in one of the recent NRA shooter mags. Supposed to be very good mags and they make quality extra high capacity... I think like 42 rd.... for the 3 gun and other competitive shooting sports.

[Troublco]

Those look a lot like the Black dog mags I have for my .22LR upper. Might have to try one or two of those also.

[bobbyfairbanks]

Standard GI Mags Seem to work just fine till the feed lips start to crack(lots of rds through it)

HK Mags have been complete bomb proof for me.

PMags have been great till I was shooting in the MTNS around -10 degrees and I broke every PMAG I had with me. All the feed lips cracked off and they where pretty much new.

All in all I think they are all good mags and have a bunch of all of them.

[nikole]

Subscribed for inevitable e-fight.
Hannu, interesting stuff. I have ran p-mags in full auto's and SAWS and haven't ever had a problem. I have not ran them in an ar with a LMOS in it thought. I could see a p-mag having issues feeding with a LMOS, but I would suspect it's because the spring is too strong and the LMOS can't fully overcome the friction vs the round not coming up fast enough. I can't see the cyclic rate of a semi being over the SAW's rate.

[Byte Stryke]

Subscribed for inevitable e-fight.

[Pop] [Pepsi]

[Busta Prima]

I'll hang around to watch this thread too. I was just about to pull the trigger on a 10 pack of PMAGS. Reading this thread, I don't like the long round issue or the cold weather issue. If anyone wants to mention a good place to buy HK mags, I'd be interested.

I was up at Jensens a couple of weeks ago and they had some decent looking steel generics for fifteen bucks. The salesman was talking them up big time. Heavier steel than stock AR (and it was). Anti tilt followers and coil springs. I was tempted but wanted to do more research.

Keep it going guys! [Coffee]

[ray1970]

There was some pretty good testing of all types or AR magazines in Shotgun News a while back. Some of their tests were pretty extreme. I remember one test involved dropping loaded magazines from the bed of a large flat bed truck through a piece of PVC pipe to assure that all magazines landed smack on their feed lips. I can't recall all of the results or all of the testing they did. Maybe I can see if I still have that issue laying around.

[Marlin]

I'll throw this out there for a little cat scratchin'

This is my personal experiance, so ymmv.

I have 7 Thremolds that are just shy of 10 years old. They have been used and, in some cases, abused. (The one that fell out of the bag and bounced around the Blazer for two months.) Some have been loaded for months at a time, dropped, stepped on, and other such indignities.
They seem to keep doing what they are designed for, without any major problems.

Now, in that same time. I have lost, due to failure about four metal G.I. mags Both, steel and aluminum from, quote, The top flight makers of such things, unquote..

Scientific, hardly. Just my personal experiance..

[henpecked]

Brownells Mags at least they will replace them if you ever have any issues.

[ray1970]

OK. I found an online copy of the article with no pictures. Here's the link.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Feeding+your+AR:+AR+mags:+is+there+a+best%3f+The+m agazine+has+been...-a0212762057

[eighty duece]

I have abused a gaggle of aluminum mags over the years and have no problem depending on them. I have ran pmags and had no problems either. I plan to get some pmags just for less scratching on the bottom of my mag well for training, I practice speed and tac reloads daily. I do doubt that the comp guns cycle as fast as "mil" guns in general as far as sustained fire.

[trlcavscout]

I have abused a gaggle of aluminum mags over the years and have no problem depending on them. I have ran pmags and had no problems either. I plan to get some pmags just for less scratching on the bottom of my mag well for training, I practice speed and tac reloads daily. I do doubt that the comp guns cycle as fast as "mil" guns in general as far as sustained fire.

You need to practice you wanker [Beer]

I have had 5-10 Pmags in the past but dont like to pay that for them, I prefer the aluminum. I have trashed maybe 5 30 rounders? The worn out 20 rounders we used in basic/AIT and what not had some bugs. Now I just buy all the used GI 30's I can and have no problems.

[rammit]

I dropped a loaded pmag out of my truck onto concrete and the dustcover shattered, took a chunk of the feed lip out but still held all the rounds in place. I shot the rounds out of the mag but havent tried to use it since, also have used 30 round gi alum mags all mine seem to work fine, have some 20 round steel mags that are junk always seen to have jams

[DSB OUTDOORS]

You just can't beat good old fasion Steel!! I have tried steel, aluminum, plastic, and polymer!! Steel you drop it loaded, it works. You drop it empty, load it it works. aluminum, loaded it dents, plastic, loaded good luck. Polymer, can stand some abuse but breaks. Go Steel!! [Beer]