View Full Version : Religious Question
Ok so this may offend some but I have to ask it! Why do religious people feel the need to turn up at my door to talk about religion?
Two guys with a baby turn up at my house yesterday Bibles in hand to discuss Jesus’ sacrifice!
Am I interested – no!
Should I tell them why – no!
I find this as irritating as hell and next to all the ‘God Squad’ bumper stickers!
Have these people ever heard of privacy?
Great-Kazoo
03-14-2010, 08:30
Ok so this may offend some but I have to ask it! Why do religious people feel the need to turn up at my door to talk about religion?
Two guys with a baby turn up at my house yesterday Bibles in hand to discuss Jesus’ sacrifice!
Am I interested – no!
Should I tell them why – no!
I find this as irritating as hell and next to all the ‘God Squad’ bumper stickers!
Have these people ever heard of privacy?
they're on commission and get paid by the soul
For some groups it is a moral requirement, they have to try to convert and save you. It is part of the particule faith and can not be seperated. I have even had a group stage a praying event to try and save me hen I told them to leave, they stood at the property line and prayed.
DICTIONARY
evangelize
Definition
e·van·gel·ize[ i vánjə lz (http://www.co-ar15.com/Dictionary/Search?q=define+evangelize&Requester=PronunciationDTP&form=DTPDIO) ]To hear the pronunciation, Install Silverlight (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=149156&v=3.0.40624.0)
TRANSITIVE AND INTRANSITIVE VERB
1.
convert to Christianity: to convert somebody or the people of an area to Christianity, especially by preaching or missionary work
2.
be advocate for a cause: to try to persuade other people to share enthusiasm for specific beliefs and ideals
e·van·gel·i·za·tion NOUN
e·van·gel·iz·er NOUN
ryanek9freak
03-14-2010, 09:14
What I don't understand is the correlation between guns and religious people. I hate that, It makes me look bad.
Do I love guns, yes, am I conservative, yes. But I am NOT religious in any way, shape, or form.
I Can't stand it when I see some shit on the news about some bible thumper standing up for gun rights.
StagLefty
03-14-2010, 09:42
It's funny but the pastor at my church actually hates the term religion. His outlook is we need to be spiritual with our lives and that's what makes us Christians in the real sense of the word. It is true that some beliefs make it mandatory to try and save or as they put it "witness" your salvation. I think some of the worst times in world history are tied into religious beliefs as is evident everyday with suicide bombers and terrorism in general. It's a slippery slope !!! My Dad always told me to keep away from political and religion topics when out tipping a few. Words of Wisdom-[Beer]
gnihcraes
03-15-2010, 12:28
I've always wondered the same things in the original post... ^^
my experience...
when on your death bed, you'll find out who your friends are and what their intentions are... best friend at the time came to see me in the hospital, asked me what I believe and I told him, then he goes off on me about why I was wrong and that is wrong and these types of people are wrong etc... pretty much ended that friendship. Some others showed up to see me that I never suspected. You know who the good people are then.
I recently saw the old best friend and his father... the father was all excited that he had found some great books on some popular author about being good and doing the right things... etc. I just looked at him and said "maybe you should have thought about all that 30 years ago...." he was a drug dealer etc for many years...
I figure on doing the right thing now instead of later...
Some people live hard lives and find "religion" and they want to share it.
Some people have a traumatic experience where "faith" got them through.
Some people had "miracles" and it changed their life for the better.
Some people....
I believe in God. I believe that there is ONE God and His name is Jesus Christ, who came to this earth in human form to take our sins to teh cross once and for all. But I do not go out and knock on peoples doors and force feed 'em my personal beliefs... If people have questions, they can ask. I might throw some stuff out there now and then when I'm with a good friend and they are desperate or serisouly looking, but I don't force anything.
It's my personal beliefs. Some people think my beliefs are cultish, I think some others beliefs are cultish...
I don't know what I'm trying to say, just thought I'd post something.
If you don't take offense, great. If you do take offense, then keep on scrolling down and ignore me. Nothing to fight about.
God Bless All. People can and do change.
I find that answering the door with a pentagram painted on my face, wearing my satanic robes, holding the recent goat sacifice,, They leave fairly quickly..
cowboykjohnson
03-15-2010, 12:50
I find that answering the door with a pentagram painted on my face, wearing my satanic robes, holding the recent goat sacifice,, They leave fairly quickly..
[ROFL1][ROFL2]
We had some Jehovah's witnesses going around the neighborhood stopping at every door, I was in the garage cleaning guns with the door open... they saw me in there racking slides and walked right by.
iamhunter
03-15-2010, 13:02
I Can't stand it when I see some shit on the news about some bible thumper standing up for gun rights.
I'll take ANYONE who will stand up for our rights.
It seems to me you're more anti-religion than anything.
Which is fine, but suggesting that it makes you look bad because Christians tend to favor gun-rights as a whole, is an ignorant and immature conclusion.
Zundfolge
03-15-2010, 13:05
For Christians, its basically the one job we're given by a guy that created an infinite and expanding universe from nothingness.
Matthew 28:16-20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28%3A16-20&version=NIV)
Furthermore, if you honestly believed you'd found the answer to life's questions (in addition to a way to avoid an eternity of torment) wouldn't you want to share it? Frankly if religious people DON'T share their faith, that seems like a bit of a dick move to me ... they get to go to paradise, but because they're lazy or whatever they let me go to hell?
Don't let it bother you ... if you're not interested simply stop them and say "Thanks, but I'm not interested" and shut the door.
For the record I'm one of those dicks that is too lazy to share my faith and try to save your sorry butt :p
If there isn't a sign on your door stating that you don't want to talk to them, then you have nothing to complain about. I notice that people tend to act like they are the only ones whose door has ever been knocked on. How much of an inconvenience is it really?
I'd rather politely tell someone that I'm not interested in speaking with them, than say...wait on the cable guy to show up at my house within a 3-5 hour window.
I politely turn them away, except one time I told the two guys that I was the devil. They left quickly.
Some people like religion and that's ok with me. I don't like religion and that's ok with most of them.
theGinsue
03-15-2010, 13:25
It's funny but the pastor at my church actually hates the term religion. His outlook is we need to be spiritual with our lives and that's what makes us Christians in the real sense of the word.
I had the same situation at the church I used to attend. According to that pastor, if someone was "religious", they had a loyalty to a specific denomination - not to God. The problem was, according to him, that a Satanist, Pagan, Wiccan, etc. person could ALSO be classified as "spiritual", so that term was out. Kinda made it difficult to discuss things.
theGinsue
03-15-2010, 13:31
Some people live hard lives and find "religion" and they want to share it.
Some people have a traumatic experience where "faith" got them through.
Some people had "miracles" and it changed their life for the better.
Some people....
I believe in God. I believe that there is ONE God and His name is Jesus Christ, who came to this earth in human form to take our sins to teh cross once and for all. But I do not go out and knock on peoples doors and force feed 'em my personal beliefs... If people have questions, they can ask. I might throw some stuff out there now and then when I'm with a good friend and they are desperate or serisouly looking, but I don't force anything.
It's my personal beliefs. Some people think my beliefs are cultish, I think some others beliefs are cultish...
I don't know what I'm trying to say, just thought I'd post something.
If you don't take offense, great. If you do take offense, then keep on scrolling down and ignore me. Nothing to fight about.
God Bless All. People can and do change.
+1 (Me too)
iamhunter
03-15-2010, 13:44
If there isn't a sign on your door stating that you don't want to talk to them, then you have nothing to complain about. I notice that people tend to act like they are the only ones whose door has ever been knocked on. How much of an inconvenience is it really?
I'd rather politely tell someone that I'm not interested in speaking with them, than say...wait on the cable guy to show up at my house within a 3-5 hour window.
Good for you Stu.
I've never gone door to door, nor do I plan to.
But I've had mormons, Jehovahs, etc. come up to my door on more than one occassion.
I usually say I'm not interested, see if they'd like a water bottle or something, and send them on there way.
I'm not interested in what they have to say, but I respect the fact that we live in a nation where they have the right to say it, and I acknowledge the fact that they usually do believe they have the path to salvation, and -- atleast in their minds -- are sincerely trying to help people.
theGinsue
03-15-2010, 13:50
[ROFL1][ROFL2]
We had some Jehovah's witnesses going around the neighborhood stopping at every door, I was in the garage cleaning guns with the door open... they saw me in there racking slides and walked right by.
Growing up, I lived in rural MO. We used to have the Witnesses show up @ 1000 Sunday mornings - about once a month.
Now, I don't know if this is JW wide or not but back in MO, the JW's didn't like women to wear pants, didn't believe in drinking alcohol, smoking, or firearms.
One day they show up andmy mom met them at hte door wearing blue jeans, 38 tucked into her waistband, smoking a cigarette and swigging a beer.
That was the shortest (and last) visit they ever made to our home.
theGinsue
03-15-2010, 13:53
Good for you Stu.
I've never gone door to door, nor do I plan to.
But I've had mormons, Jehovahs, etc. come up to my door on more than one occassion.
I usually say I'm not interested, see if they'd like a water bottle or something, and send them on there way.
I'm not interested in what they have to say, but I respect the fact that we live in a nation where they have the right to say it, and I acknowledge the fact that they usually do believe they have the path to salvation, and -- atleast in their minds -- are sincerely trying to help people.
+1
I've gone door-to-door for my former church. I've had everything from a warm reception to outright threats. A simple "not interested" would have sufficed.
For Christians, its basically the one job we're given by a guy that created an infinite and expanding universe from nothingness.
Matthew 28:16-20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28%3A16-20&version=NIV)
Furthermore, if you honestly believed you'd found the answer to life's questions (in addition to a way to avoid an eternity of torment) wouldn't you want to share it? Frankly if religious people DON'T share their faith, that seems like a bit of a dick move to me ... they get to go to paradise, but because they're lazy or whatever they let me go to hell?
Don't let it bother you ... if you're not interested simply stop them and say "Thanks, but I'm not interested" and shut the door.
For the record I'm one of those dicks that is too lazy to share my faith and try to save your sorry butt :p
That was well said. I'll add this: most of the folks who knock on my door are there because it's a formal requirement of their belief system. I generally invite them in, confuse the crap out of them, and send them on their way. It's fun in a spiteful mean spirited sort of way and I usually feel guilty for it. Around here, it's mostly Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons who come to the door, and both of those systems are generally regarded as cults. Most mainstream Christian denominations recognize the futility and ineffectiveness of that approach and don't encourage it.
Occasionally, I'll get approached by some right hearted Christian who wants to tell me about the great thing that they have that they'd like to offer me too. Since I already have it, I give them an "attaboy" and send them on their way as well.
Honestly, if it's not the JW's or Mormons, you ought to feel flattered. If it is one of them, you might consider how hard it is to get the door slammed in your face a hundred times a day. They're not evil people, they're just misguided.
I would like to ask, is this the same way you feel when some kid knocks to sell cookies/junk or the guy knocks to sell you steaks out of his truck and all the others that knock to sell stuff?
Is this a pefect example of a free Republic, I have the right to come to your house and ask you a question and you have the right to answer no if you so choose.
As long as there is no trespassing or harassment I see nothing wrong with those who wish to sell you faith, cookies, magazines or any thing else they want.
theGinsue
03-15-2010, 14:22
I respond to the doorbell or a knock on the door with a loud and gruff "Who is it?".
I've found this is usually successful in intimidating anyone coming to my door. The point is to throw any potential evil-doers back onto their heels long enough to get the advantage.
One day about 2 months ago I did this and heard a little squeak for a response. This intrigued me enough to answer the door. In front of me sttod 2 very young little girls selling some homemade craft items with eyes as big as saucers. I felt horrible!
ChunkyMonkey
03-15-2010, 14:28
I take those door knockers all day long rather than building crashing religious zealots.
Zundfolge
03-15-2010, 14:33
If we don't recognize you we just don't answer the door.
I don't understand why people have such a disdain for Mormons. I really feel like most people know next to nothing about Mormons and they get a totally unjustified bad rap. I have a Mormon friend who's family moved her to Utah to be even more Mormon, and every time I've asked her about something, she always said something along the lines of "I don't know where you heard that, but I wasn't ever taught that, and never knew anyone who believed anything like that." She also loves the Mormon episode of South Park.
Mormons are just Christians who have more modern books. Joseph Smith was just a more recent profit. I always cringe when people bash the story of Joseph Smith reading testament off of plates, yet know that the same person has no problem believing in What's His Name interpreting specific things from a dewy piece of fleece. What's the deal with that? The Mormon's effort to bring Christianity out of an ancient grave by the addition of more recent stories and profits seems like a great idea and the most logical progression of any religion. I'd think it would be much more popular than people make it out to be.
cowboykjohnson
03-15-2010, 15:13
I was told by a very mormon friend in high school that the south park episode is surprisingly mostly true. I also worked with a man who was mormon, and his whole family still is, flat out told me mormon was sooooo close to a cult it was scary.
I guess it depends how closely you follow the literature then. Mormonism is based on Christianity isn't it? They believe in Jesus, the Old Testament, the New Testament, and then their own, later scriptures. I stopped allowing myself to be taken to church after sitting through a lecture telling me that I was a sinner just because I existed. I thought it felt pretty cultish. Anyone who follows anything exactly like the book, is going to be viewed as "cultish" by people who don't. That goes for tax collectors who won't give you any leeway of the tax law, and that HR lady at work who will chew your ass out and send you home if your skirt comes above your knees.
I just find it interesting that most non-religious people think that ALL religious practices are "cultish;" then you have religious people who are comfortable to a point, but still view others' practices as "cultish" when it's all the same type of stuff, only in a different shade. Tell me that sacrificing 12 yearling bulls, 12 lambs, and 36 cattle isn't "cultish."
*I hope you don't take this as an attack on you Cowboy, because it isn't. Your comment was just perfect material for me to expand my point.
Sunday Mormons can I can tolerate... but when you get really involved and live/believe what Mormonism entails.... scary stuff...
http://www.lifeafter.org/ <--- site that explains some of their beliefs and etc. Interesting reading.
And Stu, sacrificing was done in the Old Testament as a way to ask for forgiveness of sin. There isn't any sacrificing in the New Testament (grr.. been a while, I hope I remember correctly) as JC was the last sacrifice needed to erase our sins. The NT is what Christians are supposed to be living with now. The OT should be treated as a historical reference and to see the Laws that man could not uphold.
I don't understand why people have such a disdain for Mormons. I really feel like most people know next to nothing about Mormons and they get a totally unjustified bad rap. I have a Mormon friend who's family moved her to Utah to be even more Mormon, and every time I've asked her about something, she always said something along the lines of "I don't know where you heard that, but I wasn't ever taught that, and never knew anyone who believed anything like that." She also loves the Mormon episode of South Park.
Mormons are just Christians who have more modern books. Joseph Smith was just a more recent profit. I always cringe when people bash the story of Joseph Smith reading testament off of plates, yet know that the same person has no problem believing in What's His Name interpreting specific things from a dewy piece of fleece. What's the deal with that? The Mormon's effort to bring Christianity out of an ancient grave by the addition of more recent stories and profits seems like a great idea and the most logical progression of any religion. I'd think it would be much more popular than people make it out to be.
I agree with you, before I moved to Colorado I had never knew any Mormans, I believed it was a large cult and they had many wives and all the typical stuff.
At my job I there were 3 young Morman guys and 2 of them I became good friends with.
They welcomed my in and extened a hand far past what anyone else in the community did. 1 of them was a newlywed and they had me over for Christmas and even had a gift for me. Everything I knew about Mormans was false.
They are good people from my 10 years of experience with them.
Now dont confuse most Mormans, those that follow The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints out of Salt Lake, UT with fundamentalist Mormonism like those in Eldorado,Texas or Colorado City, AZ who pratice child marrage and polygamy.
Edit: I am not a Morman and they knew that and never tried to convert me, they have some diffrent ideas but much of what I see is the same as other Christans.
cowboykjohnson
03-15-2010, 15:28
No attack considered, that was just what I was told by former followers. I really didn't consider it cultish until he made all his points to me clear from his perspective. I personally have nothing against them...
Beprepared
03-15-2010, 15:32
Some people live hard lives and find "religion" and they want to share it.
Some people have a traumatic experience where "faith" got them through.
Some people had "miracles" and it changed their life for the better.
Some people....
I believe in God. I believe that there is ONE God and His name is Jesus Christ, who came to this earth in human form to take our sins to teh cross once and for all. But I do not go out and knock on peoples doors and force feed 'em my personal beliefs... If people have questions, they can ask. I might throw some stuff out there now and then when I'm with a good friend and they are desperate or serisouly looking, but I don't force anything.
It's my personal beliefs. Some people think my beliefs are cultish, I think some others beliefs are cultish...
I don't know what I'm trying to say, just thought I'd post something.
If you don't take offense, great. If you do take offense, then keep on scrolling down and ignore me. Nothing to fight about.
God Bless All. People can and do change.
Well said!
As for the Mormons...their beliefs are a bit odd. Most Mormons I know are great people. If your a practicing Christian they tend to leave you alone. Many I know are armed to the teeth. They have a good preparedness mindset. Food banks for their own to last a year. They'll even teach non Mormons how to can food. You can also make arrangements to use their facilities.
sabot_round
03-15-2010, 15:39
Ok so this may offend some but I have to ask it! Why do religious people feel the need to turn up at my door to talk about religion?
Two guys with a baby turn up at my house yesterday Bibles in hand to discuss Jesus’ sacrifice!
Am I interested – no!
Should I tell them why – no!
I find this as irritating as hell and next to all the ‘God Squad’ bumper stickers!
Have these people ever heard of privacy?
I had a whole family stop by my garage one day. As I was reloading, the head of the family proceeded to talk, and I politely asked them to leave, as I was cranking up another round. That jacka$$ had the balls to ask me why.
Why? you are invading my privacy and you're asking me why? In my house? Are you serious?
I felt like singing some explicit lyrics but to respect his wife and kids, I exercised restraint. They left after my rant though.
I don't get bothered by roaming evangelicals anymore once I stopped answering the door. If I'm not expecting someone, I don't bother answering. 99% of the time it's a salesman or a bible thumper anyways. Yeah, I guess you could say I'm a bit anti-social.
Honesty, I don't mind them. They are only doing what they feel they must. So long as they respect my wishes when I politely say 'no thanks', all is well.
iamhunter
03-15-2010, 16:02
@stuart
I dated a mormon girl for about two months.
Many of their practices are VERY different from Christianity, and many of their beliefs and hidden practices would not be looked on favorably in a public light.
Now, I must qualify, that I do not think all mormon churches are like this, but the one I had experience with definitely had some weird things going on, and, in my eyes, some less than acceptable beliefs.
Zundfolge
03-15-2010, 16:08
I don't get bothered by roaming evangelicals anymore once I stopped answering the door. If I'm not expecting someone, I don't bother answering. 99% of the time it's a salesman or a bible thumper anyways.
Yes and that last 1% of the time its someone trying to make the news. [UZI]
We stopped answering the door and the phone (have a machine that does that for us) ... since we don't have friends that just drop in its never been anything but a positive for us.
funkfool
03-15-2010, 16:24
Hey.
Oh, thanks... but I'm not interested... but hey, have a great day.
[Pepsi]
http://www.allaboutsigns2.com/catalog/36166%20No%20Soliciting%20catchy.jpg
http://www.mysecuritysign.com/companies/safetyxpress/detailed/k/k-2547.gif
http://www.mysecuritysign.com/MSS/No_Soliciting_Signs.aspx
Sunday Mormons can I can tolerate... but when you get really involved and live/believe what Mormonism entails.... scary stuff...
http://www.lifeafter.org/ <--- site that explains some of their beliefs and etc. Interesting reading.
And Stu, sacrificing was done in the Old Testament as a way to ask for forgiveness of sin. There isn't any sacrificing in the New Testament (grr.. been a while, I hope I remember correctly) as JC was the last sacrifice needed to erase our sins. The NT is what Christians are supposed to be living with now. The OT should be treated as a historical reference and to see the Laws that man could not uphold.
heh bigbear says go here to find out about Mormons and posts an anti-Mormon website.
here's the website you should go to if you have questions about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints: http://lds.org (http://lds.org/)
I get a chuckle out of people that cry because someone knocked on their door.
LDS says that they do not practice, nor support polygamy.
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?index=16&locale=0&sourceId=9887ec6f164b2110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
Answer the door naked and armed, they will quit stopping by
Sure, after the police arrest you and you are on Megan's List and can't ever get a decent job again.
the "I just answer the door naked" or "I answer with a bloody knife" or "I answer with a gun" or "I tell them I'm satan"
all this crap is just internet talk. nobody ever does it.
gnihcraes
03-15-2010, 18:31
I politely answer the door, but if I say thanks, and I'm not interested, they should say the same and leave. When they start asking or "telling" after that, I get more firm with them leaving the porch.
ryanek9freak
03-15-2010, 19:23
I'll take ANYONE who will stand up for our rights.
It seems to me you're more anti-religion than anything.
Which is fine, but suggesting that it makes you look bad because Christians tend to favor gun-rights as a whole, is an ignorant and immature conclusion.
You have one thing correct, I am STRONGLY anti-religion. Don't misconstrue what I'm saying. I DO beleive in God, but I have strong aversion to organized worship of any kind. I think it all borders on cult-like activity. I was baptized Catholic, but renounced it years ago when those hypocritical child molesters wouldn't baptize my daughter, juse because her mother and I weren't married.
I don't want people to NOT stand up for gun rights, but it's the Christian fundamentalist whack jobs that I don't want to be associated with. The likes of James Dobson or Ted Haggard. People always assume i'm some super right wing conservative jesus freak, just because I love me some guns.
The only reason I love firearms, is because they are beautiful works of art, that can end life. So much more than just the sum of their parts.
Ok so this may offend some but I have to ask it! Why do religious people feel the need to turn up at my door to talk about religion?
Two guys with a baby turn up at my house yesterday Bibles in hand to discuss Jesus’ sacrifice!
Am I interested – no!
Should I tell them why – no!
I find this as irritating as hell and next to all the ‘God Squad’ bumper stickers!
Have these people ever heard of privacy?
for some reason they always catch me when I'm getting home and out of my truck. They follow me up to my door. "Nice day today Sir". "It sure is" I reply as I shut the door behind me.
I remember when I believed there was an invisible man in the sky that came down as his own son to save us from all the bad things in life.
And then I started to think logically.
[ROFL1]
We live so far out,, they don't come. OK well once they did, I let em drive all the way down, get out of their car walk all the way up to the house and then told em I didn't live here and was wait'n on the owner to get here from prison.
He was paroled today....Wanna here his story???
They said have a nice day and left.
Right before you die, what are you going to say to yourself? GOT JESUS![Coffee]
We live so far out,, they don't come. OK well once they did, I let em drive all the way down, get out of their car walk all the way up to the house and then told em I didn't live here and was wait'n on the owner to get here from prison.
He was paroled today....Wanna here his story???
They said have a nice day and left.
[ROFL1][ROFL1][ROFL1][Beer]
Troublco
03-15-2010, 20:59
Mormons are just Christians who have more modern books. Joseph Smith was just a more recent profit. I always cringe when people bash the story of Joseph Smith reading testament off of plates, yet know that the same person has no problem believing in What's His Name interpreting specific things from a dewy piece of fleece. What's the deal with that? The Mormon's effort to bring Christianity out of an ancient grave by the addition of more recent stories and profits seems like a great idea and the most logical progression of any religion. I'd think it would be much more popular than people make it out to be.
Not exactly. They have changed some basic tenets of Christian beliefs to make their version their own. It isn't basic Christianity with a couple updates, there are some significant differences. I'm not saying this to bash them, and I'm not saying they're not good folks. I know a few myself.
I will say this: if you start looking into some of their history, there are some areas they really don't like outsiders to get into, like Brother Brigham's avenging angels for example. And their dispensing with the polygamy thing had more to do with better fitting into society than deciding that there was something wrong with it.
I will assume that you don't have a large amount of knowledge about Christianity from what you've said. I'm not judging, I'm just saying. The Mormon folks are certainly welcome to believe as they choose. But I'm here to tell you that Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, and company are NOT "just more recent prophets" to me. That'd be like saying that Obama is just a more recent conservative. Those may be their prophets, but they aren't mine.
You're making a good argument to be a religious "progressive". That's fine. But I'm one of those who doesn't believe that "progressive" politicians are trying to help us by re-interpreting the Second Amendment and the rest of the Constitution, and I don't believe that everyone should be constantly re-interpreting the Bible, and adding or changing whatever makes them feel good.
Lots of folks seem to think that it's OK to change things to be what they want them to be, or redefine things to be more convenient, or whatever, as long as it makes them what they want them to be or doesn't affect them. I tend to think that the Constitution means what it says, and doesn't need to be constantly re-interpreted. Same with the Bible. I think it's ironic that Federal Laws are called the "U.S. Code", because it's written in such a way that you're forced to hire interpreters (lawyers) in an effort to try to make sense of it, and what you get is, once again, someone's interpretation.
There are plenty of people who call themselves "Christians" out there who give everyone else who calls themself a Christian a bad name. Those whackjobs out in Kansas who protest at the funerals of Servicemembers who've given the ultimate sacrifice come to mind. Everyone sees what they do and immediately associates ALL people who call themselves Christian with them. But I will observe that calling yourself something does not automatically make you that thing. And I seriously doubt that Christ would condone what those folks in Kansas do.
Just my opinion.
You make strong points, and of course I haven't had the time to look too much into either religion. With that said, what do you have to say about the change in tone from the Old Testament and the New Testament? I haven't gotten to the new testament yet, so I'm not real familiar with how they are different.
More people have been killed in the name of religion than for any other reason.
My personal feeling is that religion is just a tool or empty vessel. Just because someone carries out a war in the name of religion, doesn't mean it is religion's fault. Obama is trying to ruin the country with this stupid health care crap, but I wouldn't say that health care in of itself is a bad thing.
Troublco
03-15-2010, 21:39
You make strong points, and of course I haven't had the time to look too much into either religion. With that said, what do you have to say about the change in tone from the Old Testament and the New Testament? I haven't gotten to the new testament yet, so I'm not real familiar with how they are different.
The Old Testament was pre-Christ. You could only go to heaven if you were without sin, which was impossible because Adam and Eve introduced sin into the world, OR if you made sacrifices to God such as an animal. The animal, such as a lamb, stood in for you and died in your place to cover your sins (the "blood of the lamb"). The new Testament is after God sent Christ. The "deal" changed then; Christ was without sin but died for ours. So he made it so that people don't have to be perfect to be able to go to heaven. Christ was the sacrifice, hence the "lamb of God".
Hey.
Oh, thanks... but I'm not interested... but hey, have a great day.
[Pepsi]
http://www.allaboutsigns2.com/catalog/36166%20No%20Soliciting%20catchy.jpg
http://www.mysecuritysign.com/companies/safetyxpress/detailed/k/k-2547.gif
http://www.mysecuritysign.com/MSS/No_Soliciting_Signs.aspx
I live in a gated community, and they have a sign like the one above at all the gates, and they still come knocking 1-2 times a year, I just tell them if they were not able to read the sign at the gate where they came in, the police will be glad to read it to them while they write them a trespassing ticket... and I already called them when I seen you pull up, and they usually get to the exit rather fast.
Not exactly. They have changed some basic tenets of Christian beliefs to make their version their own. It isn't basic Christianity with a couple updates, there are some significant differences. I'm not saying this to bash them, and I'm not saying they're not good folks. I know a few myself.
I will say this: if you start looking into some of their history, there are some areas they really don't like outsiders to get into, like Brother Brigham's avenging angels for example. And their dispensing with the polygamy thing had more to do with better fitting into society than deciding that there was something wrong with it.
Oh yeah, like what?
(I'm just curious what kind of crap about mormons you've heard that you think is true)
You want a doctrinal tussle? I won't play. We used to call it bible bashing, and it's a bloody waste of time. You can't prove to anyone the truthfullness of anything. They have to decide it for themselves.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has something else no other religion on the planet has. The Book of Mormon.
If it's a true book, then the religion is true. If it's not, it's not.
Anyone can find out for themselves if it true or not, by reading it and then praying and asking God if it is.
Mormons believe that this life is a time to learn and grow, and the most important thing we poses is our agency, our freedom to choose, and we grow closer to God by choosing to do good and by following the example that was left by Jesus Christ.
If the truth of a religion was provable it would kindof defeat the purpose, dontcha think?
I laugh at atheists. They look at the stars, and dig in the ground and decide for themselves how they think things are, and pat themselves on the back for being so smart. The same folks that thought for hundreds of years that the sun revolved around the flat earth. But I digress......
If the missionaries come to your door and you're not interested, just say no thanks. Don't be a douche.
I'm LDS. I served a mission, and went around knocking on people's doors. It was the most rewarding thing I've done in my life so far. Now I'm what they'd call "less active" Why? because I like to sin too much.
Most of the word of mouth ideas that people hear about the church is false.
There have always been anti-Mormons, since the whole thing first started. Every single one I've met or heard about had a personal beef with the church or someone in it, or was pushing their own brand of religion.
oh and btw....polygamy is illegal in this country. Anybody know why?
Because the latter day saints were doing it.
They didn't give it up because they wanted to 'fit in', they were trying to avoid being exterminated by the government.
and people still wank about it over 100 years later.
If in your beliefs you have to attack and/or bash Mormons to please God, then maybe you need to brush up on your bible. Try Matthew chapter 7 to start.
and people still wank about it over 100 years later.
Quick hijack, what do you mean by 'wank'?
SA Friday
03-15-2010, 22:03
A religion discussion... Nothing good can come from this. Religion is pure faith, and no other origin of philosophy has molded societies moral structures more than the predominant religion of the realm.
Respecting anothers religious beliefs is as far as I go, but given freely and quite logical in the long run. I fought in Iraq with a muslim on one side of me and a jew on the other. We would have died for each other and religion had nothing to do with it. It was the respect. When they were both fasting for Ramadan and Yom Kippur (at the same time, ironically), nobody in the unit ate or drank in their presence, period. It didn't take an order either.
"No thank you. Have a nice day." That's all it takes.
SA Friday
03-15-2010, 22:17
BTW, there's a huge difference between the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
It's a pretty big difference...
Troublco
03-15-2010, 22:27
Oh yeah, like what?
(I'm just curious what kind of crap about mormons you've heard that you think is true)
You want a doctrinal tussle? I won't play. We used to call it bible bashing, and it's a bloody waste of time. You can't prove to anyone the truthfullness of anything. They have to decide it for themselves.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has something else no other religion on the planet has. The Book of Mormon.
If it's a true book, then the religion is true. If it's not, it's not.
Anyone can find out for themselves if it true or not, by reading it and then praying and asking God if it is.
Mormons believe that this life is a time to learn and grow, and the most important thing we poses is our agency, our freedom to choose, and we grow closer to God by choosing to do good and by following the example that was left by Jesus Christ.
If the truth of a religion was provable it would kindof defeat the purpose, dontcha think?
I laugh at atheists. They look at the stars, and dig in the ground and decide for themselves how they think things are, and pat themselves on the back for being so smart. The same folks that thought for hundreds of years that the sun revolved around the flat earth. But I digress......
If the missionaries come to your door and you're not interested, just say no thanks. Don't be a douche.
I'm LDS. I served a mission, and went around knocking on people's doors. It was the most rewarding thing I've done in my life so far. Now I'm what they'd call "less active" Why? because I like to sin too much.
Most of the word of mouth ideas that people hear about the church is false.
There have always been anti-Mormons, since the whole thing first started. Every single one I've met or heard about had a personal beef with the church or someone in it, or was pushing their own brand of religion.
oh and btw....polygamy is illegal in this country. Anybody know why?
Because the latter day saints were doing it.
They didn't give it up because they wanted to 'fit in', they were trying to avoid being exterminated by the government.
and people still wank about it over 100 years later.
If in your beliefs you have to attack and/or bash Mormons to please God, then maybe you need to brush up on your bible. Try Matthew chapter 7 to start.
No, I don't want a doctrinal tussle, although that looks like exactly what you're doing. You're right, everyone has to decide for themselves what they believe is true. The Jews don't believe that the Christians are right, the non-LDS Christians don't think the Mormons are right, etc. ad nauseum. You could go for hours on this.
I agree with what you say about atheists. But that's for them to decide.
I don't push my religion on anyone. I don't mind if you're Mormon, and someone else is an atheist, and someone else is a pagan. Each to their own. I might not agree with them, but they are entitled to their opinion/view.
And if you got down to brass tacks, wouldn't you classify changing your beliefs to be trying to fit in? The Romans did a job on the early Christians to try to make them fit in, and untold numbers of them died for their beliefs. You say the Mormons abandoned polygamy so they wouldn't be "exterminated" by the Government. Now the Mormon church says they don't believe in it or accept it. So if the Muslims took over the country and started trying to exterminate the Mormons (and every other non-Muslim religion here) would the Mormons convert to Islam? I'm not trying to be contentious, I'm genuinely curious.
I was simply saying that I don't believe that Joseph Smith or Brigham Young are my prophets, and that as I understand it Mormons have differences in their beliefs such as their concept of Heaven (which is significantly different than what is in the King James Bible) as it has been explained to me by a MORMON. Doesn't mean you're wrong, doesn't mean I'm right. I'm saying your beliefs are not mine, and I don't believe they are simply a "More Modern" version. They are a different version; they are your version.
You want to lecture me on what I need to do? Go ahead. Lecture all you want; I'm fine with that. I'm not sitting here trying to make Stuart believe what I believe, or trying to please God in what I was saying. I was expressing my opinion. You have the freedom to do the same.
I have a question. I'm under the impression that the King James Bible is just a version of the Bible that was edited by King James to fit his whims. How can people take that seriously? I suspect there is more to it than that, so I'd like to hear what people have to say about it.
KevDen2005
03-16-2010, 00:07
Sounds like you need Jesus!
depends on the person/religion. if you follow what the bible says and are a true believer (ie, don't have just blind faith but actually have experiences to back it up) then sharing the Gospel is simply what you think everyone needs to hear. i mean think about it, it may annoy you (believe me i can understand why) but in reality they are just hoping that you will have what they have: the promise of eternal life and a relationship with your creator. now if you don't agree with their beliefs, this will seem annoying to you, and like i said, understandably so. but in general it really is with good intentions.
for others, as previously stated by other posters, its a requirement. now its true in the bible it says to share your faith but it is not a requirement, simply something you should feel obligated to do based on what you have been given. other spin offs will say that you have to to go to heaven, etc, but there is nothing to really back that up.
bellavite1
03-16-2010, 05:21
I find that answering the door with a pentagram painted on my face, wearing my satanic robes, holding the recent goat sacifice,, They leave fairly quickly..
So I am not alone![Beer]
When I moved to my newly purchased home, a few years ago, we had New Born Christians living across the street chanting and smiling at us...
ALL DAY LONG...
We started displaying our faith [Muaha] and our neighbor , who lives next door to them, started drowning their chants with Metallica and Sepultura!
They moved!
Now I happily live in a mostly Atheist-Satanist block of houses[Wiggle].
We did not start the war, but we sure won it.
Fight fire with fire!
I have a question. I'm under the impression that the King James Bible is just a version of the Bible that was edited by King James to fit his whims. How can people take that seriously? I suspect there is more to it than that, so I'd like to hear what people have to say about it.
Stu, read this: http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html
To sum it all up: At the time, there were literally hundreds of bibles supposedly translated from the Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic. However, they were all different, and some downright idiotic. James, wanted to get as pure a translation as possible so they made a convention and set rules for translation to get the most closely translated English version possible.
Even today, if you take the NIV vs the KJV, there are sublte differences that completely change the meaning of the verse, for example: http://www.chick.com/information/bibleversions/comparison.asp
You're linking to Jack Chick's website in a non-ironic manner.
Might want to do something about that.
You're linking to Jack Chick's website in a non-ironic manner.
Might want to do something about that.
?? I know nothing about jack chick, etc. I just googled differences between KJV and NIV and it popped up. Took out my bibles to check and they are correct, so I posted. Who is Jack and what's wrong with him?
More people have been killed in the name of religion than for any other reason.
Oh, bullshit. (with a smile and a wink) Hitler didn't kill in the name of religion, neither did Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and most of the worlds recent tyrants. Their killings overwhelm the relatively puny numbers of people killed in the name of god by Christians, Muslims, Jews, and whoever else has had a crusade. The truly gifted mass murderers did their thing for power, not god. In many cases, the victims of these monsters were people of faith. They were not the killers, but the killees.
Oh, bullshit. (with a smile and a wink) Hitler didn't kill in the name of religion, neither did Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and most of the worlds recent tyrants. Their killings overwhelm the relatively puny numbers of people killed in the name of god by Christians, Muslims, Jews, and whoever else has had a crusade. The truly gifted mass murderers did their thing for power, not god. In many cases, the victims of these monsters were people of faith. They were not the killers, but the killees.
Hitler and the above only killed a few Mill.
If you research religious war death tolls
from record keeping 55+ million or more are attributed to religious wars, be it the Crusades, witch hunts, the taming of American Indians (to convert them Christianity that is), Brigham Young, Muslims , and on and on.
Hitler and the above only killed a few Mill.
If you research religious war death tolls
from record keeping 55+ million or more are attributed to religious wars, be it the Crusades, witch hunts, the taming of American Indians (to convert them Christianity that is), Brigham Young, Muslims , and on and on.
Mao wins this gruesome contest all by himself with estimates ranging from 70 to 100 million. Add the others in, and it's no contest.
Hitler - 10 million
Stalin - 20 million
Pol Pot - 2 million
I'd dispute the 55+ million number also. 15 minutes of research makes it look like getting to 1 million in the events you describe would be pretty difficult.
I don't mean to dispute that much harm has been done in the name of religion. Much certainly has. However, I disagree that religion is the main cause of war and suffering. Greed and power are the true motivators in most cases.
bellavite1
03-16-2010, 12:25
Mao wins this gruesome contest all by himself with estimates ranging from 70 to 100 million. Add the others in, and it's no contest.
Hitler - 10 million
Stalin - 20 million
Pol Pot - 2 million
I'd dispute the 55+ million number also. 15 minutes of research makes it look like getting to 1 million in the events you describe would be pretty difficult.
I don't mean to dispute that much harm has been done in the name of religion. Much certainly has. However, I disagree that religion is the main cause of war and suffering. Greed and power are the true motivators in most cases.
Problem is (and the Vatican is there to prove it), that religion, greed and power often go hand in hand.
I find it highly ironic that pro-gun people talk about religion the same way that surrender monkeys talk about guns.
refryguy
03-16-2010, 12:34
While I respect the Judeo-Christian ethic as well as the eastern philosophies and even the teachings of Mohamed, I find that organized religion has corrupted those beliefs in order to justify countless human atrocities throughout history. Were I to attend church, I would be a hypocrite.
While I respect the Judeo-Christian ethic as well as the eastern philosophies and even the teachings of Mohamed, I find that organized religion has corrupted those beliefs in order to justify countless human atrocities throughout history. Were I to attend church, I would be a hypocrite.
the problem here is that very few people have been proven to be truly religious. most are like many of the muslim clerics in radical parts of the middle east today. they teach (often to illiterate people) that the religion says to kill anyone who disagrees, so what do these people do? they kill for that person. its a classic puppet/puppet master problem. the leadership who organize the death of people are rarely truly religious, they simply use religion to confuse and in some case blind people into doing what they want. in the end its all for power, religion is just used as a catalyst to gain support.
i can't really believe anyone would dispute that more deaths have been caused in the name of religion than none. as stated, mao himself is said to have been responsible for upwards of 50 million. hitler easily 20 million. stalin has numbers ranging from 20 million to 50 million. and so on and so forth. as previously stated, its all about power. heck, even in the bible you can see that with the pharisees. what they did was never in the name of religion, it was for personal gain, they just used religion to gain that power. there is a big difference
Here is what I am gonna do. Starting tomorrow I am going to attend religious gatherings of all denominations (monday thru sunday) get in good graces with all so that when my time here is done I can party like a rock star! Think of all the benefits from multiple religions when you die! I'm just kidding, but everyone here knows what happens to a polite religious conversation, they turn ugly...........everytime. So far though this one has been pretty civil, good work!
Zundfolge
03-16-2010, 13:11
While I respect the Judeo-Christian ethic as well as the eastern philosophies and even the teachings of Mohamed, I find that organized religion has corrupted those beliefs in order to justify countless human atrocities throughout history. Were I to attend church, I would be a hypocrite.
Actually most of those countless human atrocities throughout history were over land and/or money ... so do you feel like a hypocrite when you're at a bank or realtor's office?
Religions, like guns, are often misused by the evil. That doesn't mean that religions (or guns) in and of themselves are bad things.
cowboykjohnson
03-16-2010, 13:12
Religions, like guns, are often misused by the evil. That doesn't mean that religions (or guns) in and of themselves are bad things.
+1 [Beer]
What the heck, I've been saying that for four pages now. Way to steal my thunder.
Maybe I was only thinking it...
Troublco
03-16-2010, 13:17
What the heck, I've been saying that for four pages now. Way to steal my thunder.
Maybe I was only thinking it...
[ROFL1]
cowboykjohnson
03-16-2010, 13:22
What the heck, I've been saying that for four pages now. Way to steal my thunder.
Maybe I was only thinking it...
but you said it in a fancy intellectual kind of way that us dummies can't understand.....[Tooth]
Zundfolge
03-16-2010, 13:26
Yeah, but who's gonna listen to a donkey? Buckwheat ... there's a brotha that commands the attention of a crowd.
OTAY!
LDS says that they do not practice, nor support polygamy.
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?index=16&locale=0&sourceId=9887ec6f164b2110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
Polygamy is just wrong! It's either Polyphilia or Multiamory, but mixing Latin and Greek roots is wrong!
H. [LOL]
(I'm just curious what kind of crap about mormons you've heard that you think is true)
Doesn't the LDS preach that Jesus lived in North America, and that the holy land is Missouri? Also, magic underwear: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment This is some of the crap I've heard, is it true? I once drove through Utah and, I got a hotel room. I turned on the local news. They were talking about "the church." The idea of some placing having a "The" church, was deeply disconcerting to me.
H
HBARleatherneck
03-16-2010, 14:13
Here is what I hate.
so the story goes... when they went to try Adolph eichman, they assigned an Irish priest to be his...well whatever he was. confidant, friend, whatever. anyway, after eichman was wacked, they interviewed the priest. a reporter asked if eichman confessed his sins, etc. i believe the priest said no. but the important and disgusting part of the deal, is when the priest said. if he did, he would be going to heaven. and when asked about the millions of jewish children killed by eichman. the priest said they went to hell. I can not tell you how angry that makes me.
Not_A_Llama
03-16-2010, 14:24
I don't understand why people have such a disdain for Mormons. I really feel like most people know next to nothing about Mormons and they get a totally unjustified bad rap. I have a Mormon friend who's family moved her to Utah to be even more Mormon, and every time I've asked her about something, she always said something along the lines of "I don't know where you heard that, but I wasn't ever taught that, and never knew anyone who believed anything like that." She also loves the Mormon episode of South Park.
You also don't learn about Xenu and body thetans until you're a couple ten grand into the scientology game, and by that point, you're too invested in it to throw away a major part of your life. See if she knows about the holy underwear.
Are you suggesting you have to pay to become a Mormon?
Not_A_Llama
03-16-2010, 14:52
No.
Well, kinda, now that I think about it. Investment of time and tithes.
I'm saying that it takes a while before less-popular beliefs are taught to members. Someone less involved may not yet be exposed to the weird shit.
Oh, so just like being a bank employee.
Not_A_Llama
03-16-2010, 14:55
Oh, so just like being a bank employee.
How do you mean?
I don't. I was too much of a stretch anyway. I'm sick and need some rest.
Not_A_Llama
03-16-2010, 15:11
I was just expressing my experience with people in "fringe" groups. On the Mormon point, your friend may not want to discuss it, or may not be aware of the weird stuff. The holy underwear bit is a good litmus test. I have friends that are new LDS, lifetime LDS, and ex-LDS.
Ex-LDS will talk openly about it and get a laugh, lifetime LDS will make some remark about "certain garments" and change the topic, and a lot of newbies don't know or outright deny. Some lifers will say they don't know or can't talk about it.
There is some weird shit, like in any religion. I think there's a lot more of it in LDS, because it's so new. Older religions tend to lose the weird stuff, restrain it to the very upper levers, or manage to get so ingrained in society that it no longer seems weird.
On the last point, consider that people in this country actually believe that the son of an all-mighty god died for some sheepfuckers in one of the smelliest assholes of the world. I maintain that no rational person should believe it, but it's considered "mainstream".
Just observations. I don't answer the door. If someone really needs to see me, they'll send a letter, leave a note, or yell something about a warrant.
bellavite1
03-16-2010, 15:11
Polygamy is just wrong! It's either Polyphilia or Multiamory, but mixing Latin and Greek roots is wrong!
H. [LOL]
Poligamy is just stupid!
Why would you want to deal with multiple PMS?[Help]
Poligamy is just stupid!
Why would you want to deal with multiple PMS?[Help]
Yep, it is a proven fact that several females that share the same area for a number of hours a day will Sync up.. Then it's is all over....[ROFL1]
litewavve
03-16-2010, 22:56
[ROFL1][ROFL2]
We had some Jehovah's witnesses going around the neighborhood stopping at every door, I was in the garage cleaning guns with the door open... they saw me in there racking slides and walked right by.
They thought that you were beyond saving. [Muaha]
The whole concept of an "invisible supreme being that sees all/knows all/controls all", and organized worshipping of said being has always seemed ridiculous to me. I wants nuffin' to do wif' it. Not to mention that there's always money and power involved somewhere in the picture. Look at how wealthy and powerful the Catholic Church is.
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