View Full Version : Why we are where we are....
Icecoldviper
03-16-2010, 22:43
I think Mike hit it dead on. Check this out lemme know what you think.
http://www.mikeroweworks.com/2009/07/mikes-mission-video/
68Charger
03-16-2010, 23:04
My initial reaction is: Shame on Discovery channel for not giving this 3 seconds of air time... even it if it's Mike's idea, vision & work entirely..
I've watched Dirty Jobs enough that that I would have heard about this, but it looks like this site was launched 6 months ago, and this is the first I've heard of it?
on the surface it seems like a good idea- will look into it further, thanks for the link!
Icecoldviper
03-16-2010, 23:12
My initial reaction is: Shame on Discovery channel for not giving this 3 seconds of air time... even it if it's Mike's idea, vision & work entirely..
I've watched Dirty Jobs enough that that I would have heard about this, but it looks like this site was launched 6 months ago, and this is the first I've heard of it?
on the surface it seems like a good idea- will look into it further, thanks for the link!
Ya same here... Don't even remember how I ran across it this morning before I went to work. Just now starting to take a look at the website. Haven't had the time to look at everything on there but I completely agree with Mike. I'm so sick of my job right now I may have to go get a dirty job... Being kept up in a cage all day with a bunch of bitches sucks....
Oh man, what perfect timing for this video.
I've got a BA in Economics, and I've never even tried to get a job in my field, nor do I plan to. I've been looking for a new job, but have NO idea where to look. I don't have any trade skills, but I'm certainly smart enough to learn and develop them. I CAN successfully do the office work that I've got experience in, but it's not really something that I particularly love.
I've spent a lot of my (young) life feeling that people should go off and go to college. Now, I've changed that slightly to say that being educated is extremely important, but not necessarily in the "college" that everyone is pressured into. I know a ton of people who are plenty smart enough, and a formal college education (at least right after high school) would be wasted on them and they wouldn't even finish. Personally, I think that learning a trade should be held equally as high a Bachelor's degree. Sure Economics can sound snazzy to some people, but when my dish washer breaks and floods my kitchen, or I'd like to tear down a wall, or even go camping, all that stuff I learned about free markets isn't going to help me at all. I loved going to college, and would never change a thing, but I also have noticed that skilled labor is important, and seems to be dwindling and looked down upon. I'm always a little jealous of guys who are 1) military and 2) skilled labor.
skilled labor is important
You know Stu,, 22years of being "Skilled labor",, That is the first time I have ever known an "Office type" admit that..
68Charger
03-17-2010, 00:03
I'll be the 2nd, then.. I have a desk job... and I absolutely think skilled labor is important!
There are many times when I'd rather be working with my hands than pushing a pencil (or keyboard- virtual pencil)
I do network implementation- a design engineer dreams it up, we build it.. without the skilled labor to build that equipment, install it, power it up, maintain it, we wouldn't get anything done..
I do all my own work on my cars, because I miss working with my hands.. at work, it's all just voices over the phone & dots on the computer screen anymore.. maybe I'm not an "office type" at heart, but it's my job...
You guys may bring a tear to my eye...
[LOL]
Seriously though,,, Thank you...
Icecoldviper
03-17-2010, 00:25
I'll be the 2nd, then.. I have a desk job... and I absolutely think skilled labor is important!
There are many times when I'd rather be working with my hands than pushing a pencil (or keyboard- virtual pencil)
I do network implementation- a design engineer dreams it up, we build it.. without the skilled labor to build that equipment, install it, power it up, maintain it, we wouldn't get anything done..
I do all my own work on my cars, because I miss working with my hands.. at work, it's all just voices over the phone & dots on the computer screen anymore.. maybe I'm not an "office type" at heart, but it's my job...
Whats this first and second crap I posted it!
Joking aside I do miss my construction job sometimes... sure I would go home and be tired but at least I could fall asleep when I wanted to. Not lay in bed for however long trying to get stuff out of my head being all stressed out and unhappy. Maybe its just my office but everyone is against each other. "why can so and so do or wear that?" or some other crap.
Plus it kept me in decent shape. This last summer I helped my parents redo their fence one weekend and it kicked my ass trying dig the holes for the fence post. (the pos auger we rented wasn't worth a damn and got stuck on rocks and stuff... would have been cake had I still been in shape....
Most of all I just miss being outside and moving around. Being stuck in a chair all day without even a window to look out sucks feels like prison.
Help!
One more thing though,,
a design engineer dreams it up, we build it..
Tell the damn engineer,, it don't always fit in reality, as nice as it does on paper..
[Tooth]
68Charger
03-17-2010, 06:50
One more thing though,,
Tell the damn engineer,, it don't always fit in reality, as nice as it does on paper..
[Tooth]
I do... as often as I can... especially when they're trying to use the latest whiz-bang device available (we like to call it Bleeding edge technology)
and then the bean counter sticks his head in, and says he's got to cut costs, too..
and Viper- you may have posted a link to it, but you didn't SAY it.. [ROFL1]
there's a new Ram truck commercial out that I was reminded of, I'll see if I can find it.... something about rolling up your sleeves..
also reminds me of a Teddy Roosevelt quote:
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how [B]the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
"Citizenship in a Republic,"
Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910
I'll third that - skilled labor is hugely important.
I love my desk job but I also make sure to get outside everyday and have some fun. I'm fortunate that my job has 'flex time' and my boss only cares that I get my work done, he doesn't care if I do it from home or in the office.
I am not skilled at building things, I could learn it, very slowly, but it is not something I'm good at. I have a friend in construction, I am a source of humor to him because of my ineptness.
This is one of the many problems I have with illegals, they have driven the wages down so far that skilled labor American citizens can't afford to do those jobs. Personally I think a skilled citizen could do the work of 3 or 4 maybe more unskilled illegals, and the work would be done correctly the first time.
I work with 'offshore' - read Indian - folks. Generally they are not skilled and I get to fix their work b/c they didn't do it right the first time and don't know/don't care about correcting it. There are a few that are good but I've trained 8 and only 2 were worth a shit, they've both quit for better jobs.
One more thing though,,
Tell the damn engineer,, it don't always fit in reality, as nice as it does on paper..
[Tooth]
My Dad was in construction since he was an early teen. And if I had a dime for every time I've heard him say this.
Another large contributing factor to this, is that being smart in many schools is not "cool", anyone who tries in class is ostracized and the result is kids are coming out of high school illiterate and unable to do simple math. School are underfunded, teachers are underpaid, and the solution has been (in some places) to split the school systems into inner city school and suburban schools. Bussing kids across town to equalize racial percentages had a disastrous effect of making it impossible for many parents to be involved. The inner city schools are often horrible... I've been to them, it's a joke.
I've always kind of wanted to be an electrician. Since I need to get a new job anyway, I may look into seeing what it takes to become an apprentice or something. One of my all time favorite jobs was making pizza at Beau Jo's. Show up to work, get slammed and work your ass off for 10 hours, go home. Awesome.
I love my desk job but I also make sure to get outside everyday and have some fun.
+1
I have a friend that is ...., I am a source of humor to him because of my ineptness.
+1
This is one of the many problems I have with illegals, they have driven the wages down so far that skilled labor American citizens can't afford to do those jobs. Personally I think a skilled citizen could do the work of 3 or 4 maybe more unskilled illegals, and the work would be done correctly the first time.
+1
I do all my own work on my cars, because I miss working with my hands.. at work, it's all just voices over the phone & dots on the computer screen anymore.. maybe I'm not an "office type" at heart, but it's my job...
+1
being educated is extremely important, but not necessarily in the "college" that everyone is pressured into. I know a ton of people who are plenty smart enough, and a formal college education (at least right after high school) would be wasted on them and they wouldn't even finish. Personally, I think that learning a trade should be held equally as high a Bachelor's degree.
+1! +1! +1! +1! +1! +1!
All comments very well put!
I've always kind of wanted to be an electrician. Since I need to get a new job anyway, I may look into seeing what it takes to become an apprentice or something. One of my all time favorite jobs was making pizza at Beau Jo's. Show up to work, get slammed and work your ass off for 10 hours, go home. Awesome.
They might be taking low $$ apprentices at the moment.. The last few I have done for CLP haven't been over $12.. You'll be digging trenches, parts gofer, and anything else nobody wants to do.. Oh, and if it's slow, You'll be the one sitting home..
If you expand the very first job listed (loveland, co) I'm thinking of applying for this job just to see what happens. The description really makes it sound like it is an entry level position, but of course they would like someone with experience and general knowledge as well.
http://www.omnitrax.com/employement.aspx
cowboykjohnson
03-17-2010, 14:40
They might be taking low $$ apprentices at the moment.. The last few I have done for CLP haven't been over $12.. You'll be digging trenches, parts gofer, and anything else nobody wants to do.. Oh, and if it's slow, You'll be the one sitting home..
+1 recently looked into this and was offered a job I didn't take.
cowboykjohnson
03-17-2010, 14:41
If you expand the very first job listed (loveland, co) I'm thinking of applying for this job just to see what happens. The description really makes it sound like it is an entry level position, but of course they would like someone with experience and general knowledge as well.
http://www.omnitrax.com/employement.aspx
sounds like a good job.[Beer]
Maybe it is just me. But watching Mikes video reminded me of another TV legend/hero of mine. Stacey David of Gearz and formerly Trucks!.
To me they seem to have some of the same values and work ethic.
http://www.staceydavid.com
If you expand the very first job listed (loveland, co) I'm thinking of applying for this job just to see what happens. The description really makes it sound like it is an entry level position, but of course they would like someone with experience and general knowledge as well.
http://www.omnitrax.com/employement.aspx
The wrost they can do is laugh at your app.. My luck, I would be "overqualified"
Skilled labor is very important, but unions can suck a fat one. The are a big part of the problem.
Yeah, I'm not very excited to work for a union at all.
Skilled labor is very important, but unions can suck a fat one. The are a big part of the problem.
Maybe I am mistaken about how unions work but here goes:
I think the biggest problems with unions is that the individual is ignored. People should be rewarded based on their merit, not time in service. When a single individual kicks ass at a job and carries a bunch of lazy people the union doesn't think about that single person, everyone gets the same raise, that isn't right and I think it is immoral.
Maybe I am mistaken about how unions work but here goes:
I think the biggest problems with unions is that the individual is ignored. People should be rewarded based on their merit, not time in service. When a single individual kicks ass at a job and carries a bunch of lazy people the union doesn't think about that single person, everyone gets the same raise, that isn't right and I think it is immoral.
Seems socialist or more like the liberal way of thinking. I agree.
You know which jobs really need unions now? The ones that keep getting outsourced.
They are for the most part....[ROFL1]
You know which jobs really need unions now? The ones that keep getting outsourced.
Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrr we could just stop out sourcing every last job!!! That is the real solution.
Get out of here with your logic.
I was just pondering about this in the car on the way to work today. What ways could we convince companies to stop out sourcing manufacturing and services without enacting some sort of legislation? There are always people who are willing to boycott companies like that, but never enough, and some people just don't have a choice but to shop based on price only.
It is a perplexing issue. I'd say that getting rid of unions and the inflated pay rates of union workers would be a start. Don't know where to go after that though.
Kind of counter intuitive to praise skilled labor, yet damn unions and inflated wages all in the same thread isn't it?
Seems socialist or more like the liberal way of thinking. I agree.
That's why the Communist Party came up through the labor unions. Communism depends on a few carrying the many (from each according to his ability, to each according to his need), this is union groupthink too.
Unfortunately communism doesn't take into account the competitive nature of the human being, we're not robots and when we do well we want to be rewarded. Socialism, Marxism, and Communism remove the reward from the equation, they remove the incentive to do well, thus they fail and fail miserably.
That's why capitalism is the best economic system, because it has incentives that appeal to our human nature. Unfortunately the United States continues to reward bad behavior by offering public assistance without restrictions.
Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrr we could just stop out sourcing every last job!!! That is the real solution.
That is a tough one, I don't know if I want the government to have that kind of control over a corporation.
I have been thinking about this for years and still haven't come up with a rational and coherent solution. All I know is that I absolutely hate it.
That is a tough one, I don't know if I want the government to have that kind of control over a corporation.
I have been thinking about this for years and still haven't come up with a rational and coherent solution. All I know is that I absolutely hate it.
By no means am I saying the government should have anythign to do with this. It is at the business owners hands.
Get out of here with your logic.
No no.... what fun would that be?
By no means am I saying the government should have anythign to do with this. It is at the business owners hands.
Then we're kinda stuck with it. This may be naive but corporate america has an obligation to the shareholder to push the stock price up, outsourcing helps achieve that goal by reducing operating costs.
I'll talk about Information Technology because I don't know anything else. Did the American I.T. worker price himself out of a job? My recent experience was that the outsourcing company charged more for my job than I am getting paid so I am still employed. Am I underpaid, maybe but I do OK and I still have a job so I am happy.
In the long run outsourcing will hurt more than it helps, my experience is that I end up doing the work anyway b/c offshore is a bunch of fuckups. The waste of having some twit from India do the same task incorrectly more than twice outweighs any cost savings but corporate america is VERY short-sighted, must be all those MBA degrees blocking their vision.
The government regulations and taxes have a big hand in outsourcing. A few days ago in the thread about the new Colorado tax increases was a posting that the tax increase might be the last straw that shuts down a manufacturing plant here. How much does the bookkeeping cost alone add to comply with the tax laws?
The countless regulations and the expenses of proving compliance add a lot to the cost of doing business here. It's a tough balancing act to protect people and not overdo it but we all could come up with ridiculas examples of government regulations. Or out of control regulators on power trips or that are just plain stupid.
Maybe it is just me. But watching Mikes video reminded me of another TV legend/hero of mine. Stacey David of Gearz and formerly Trucks!.
To me they seem to have some of the same values and work ethic.
http://www.staceydavid.com
I loved watching his shows on powerblock. I was bummed when he left.
I loved watching his shows on powerblock. I was bummed when he left.
He has his own show called Gearz on Speed now. You should check it out if you haven't.
He has his own show called Gearz on Speed now. You should check it out if you haven't.
Right on. Will do.
[Beer]
68Charger
03-17-2010, 19:59
In the long run outsourcing will hurt more than it helps, my experience is that I end up doing the work anyway b/c offshore is a bunch of fuckups. The waste of having some twit from India do the same task incorrectly more than twice outweighs any cost savings but corporate america is VERY short-sighted, must be all those MBA degrees blocking their vision.
+10
I've seen this time after time- the outsourced individuals do not understand the business behind what they are doing... so you wind up having many other individuals having to spend extra time explaining, dealing with testing issues, trouble tickets, etc.. I have to deal with one on a daily basis- and he's getting better, but still doesn't understand the business side of what he's coding for...
but the muckety-mucks see the stock price go up after they announce that they're outsourcing something.. so it's wall street that needs to learn, and it's a slow curve...
Icecoldviper
03-17-2010, 22:38
I read this in how did you get into your career on there and it made me think a bit.
Sorry in Advance for the length of this post.
How I became a painter
My parents were typical American parents who wanted their children to grow up to have the American dream. They thought that was only possible by obtaining a 4 year degree. I remember them telling me "if you want to make it in this world you need to go to college". Unfortunately I was brought up in a lower middle class household, where my parents made just enough money to preclude us from receiving grants, but not enough to fully fund a full time college program. So after high school I joined the Marine Corps in hopes that I would be able to tap into the GI Bill and the $30k for college promised in all the commercials that I remember watching. While my time in the military taught me discipline, a work ethic and many other useful lessons and skills, the one thing it did not do was pay for my college. I learned the hard way when I got out, that there are some strings attached to the GI bill and the $30k was not offered in the USMC… at that time it was $15k and you had to pay into the program, which was either not explained to me when I enlisted, or more likely I didn’t hear it. Regardless I found myself once again trying to figure out how to pay for the keys to my future success, a sheepskin to hang on the wall.
I did what I never realized would change the course of my life. I called a friend of mine from High School whose father owned a Painting Company. I figured I could paint during the day and go to college at night. It was a Union company so I had to go down to the local union hall and join their apprenticeship program. I signed on to working full time with 16 hours of class each month. All of this in addition to my night classes in college, in pursuit of my Computer Science degree. It was HARD WORK. I never looked at Painting as a career, just a means to an end. I was focused on getting my degree and getting out of “manual labor”. I never gave it a second thought, I worked, I went to class, I went to school. It took 3 years to finish my apprenticeship program, along the way I got married, bought a house, bought a car and a truck, and paid for school. I never got “rich” but I always had money. Then the day finally came when I finished my degree. I was so proud of myself, and my parents were so proud of me. Finally the day was here when I could say good bye to manual labor. I could hang up my painter’s whites, buy a suit and a tie and go make my millions.
I started working for an IT company doing tech support. I made $12.00 an hour. I had to take a big pay cut (from $21.60 per hour + benefits), but I just knew that I would be making big money soon with my degree and my new corporate wardrobe. I knew from experience that you have to start at the bottom and work your way up. I just thought I would have to tighten my belt a bit. I hated it from day one. I didn’t like the suit and tie, I didn’t really like working in the office, and I learned a lesson in one of the difference in “White Collar” and “Blue Collar”.
I was to share two stories that really helped open my eyes in life.
Story 1:
Back when I was painting there was a guy on the job who didn’t like me… and the feeling was more than mutual (let’s just call him Roy). Call it bad chemistry, difference of opinion or whatever you like; we just did NOT get along. He would go his way and I would go mine. We never really fought or anything we just stayed away from each other. Then one fine December day as I was getting ready to head home, I heard a pop and felt the brake pedal of my truck go to the floor. Apparently I broke a brake line. I had no idea what to do… I was a painter and not a mechanic. I jumped out of the truck and grabbed a 2x4 out of the back of the truck and shoved it under the wheels so I wouldn’t roll backwards down the hill I was “parked” on. I then did what anyone who had no idea how to work on a vehicle does… I opened the hood and stood there staring at it like I knew what I was doing. Just then “my buddy” pulled up behind me. He got out of his truck and asked what the problem was. I told him what happened and he crawled under the truck and diagnosed the problem, “you blew your brake line kid, get in my truck and let’s go get you fixed up”. I didn’t really know what to say so I jumped in and off we went to the auto parts store. Roy told me to wait in the truck so he could keep the engine running and the heater on, while he ran into the store. He bought some brake line and refused my offer to pay him for it, and we drove back to my truck. Roy crawled under the tuck on the wet ground, in December at about 6:00 PM on a Friday and fixed my break line for me. Then he pulled a couple of beers out of the bed of his truck, “winter time is nature’s refrigerator” he remarked… (which oddly makes some sort of sense) and we drank them in almost complete silence. I really didn’t know what to say to him other than “Thank you”, and I think he felt the same way. We didn’t really have anything in common other than work. After the beer I thanked him again and asked him what I owed him, and he said, “Nothing kid. Be careful on your way home… see you on Monday.” I wish I could say we became lifelong friends after that, but we didn’t. He still went his way and I went mine, but I will never forget the helping hand he gave me. He didn’t like me, but he wanted to make sure I made it home to my family, safely that night. And a thank you was good enough in return for his assistance.
Story 2:
When I was working at the IT Company I had a lot of friends. We would talk on break, we would go to lunch together, some of us would even hang out on the weekends once in a while. We all hated our jobs and loved to complain about them, every chance we got. I thought I was blessed to have so many people that cared about me. Then as I was leaving one Friday (they day I swear vehicles break down the most) I went to start my truck (different truck than the one with the bad brakes), and it didn’t start. By this time I knew a bit about vehicles, but I still did the standard routine, get out, open the hood, blank stare. I determined it was a bad battery (I had been down this particular road before). I grabbed my jumper cables and though “I’ll be on my way in no time”. I was wrong. I asked every “friend” I saw in the parking lot that afternoon. I had the cables in my hand and all I needed was someone to pull up next to my truck and pop their hood for a minute. They didn’t even need to get out of the car. I just needed “a jump” and that was all. Every one of my “friends” had somewhere else they had to be, they had to get on the road. I heard every excuse from “My car isn’t strong enough” and “I want to get on the road before rush hour” to “my car is under warranty and I can’t open the hood or it will be voided”. Every one told me the same thing, “Go ask security”. By this time I was mad. I tried to “go ask security” but apparently security was trying to get home too… they left at 4:30, and now at quarter to five I found myself standing in an almost empty parking lot while my “friends” tried to avoid eye contact as they sped off to start their weekend. I ended up walking to a gas station to call my dad from a pay phone, because by this time the building was locked and I could not get back to my desk to call. My dad had to drive an hour in heave traffic to jump my truck so I could drive home and put in a new battery. As I was waiting, back in my truck with no air conditioner or radio I had some time for reflection. I thought about almost two years earlier when Roy stayed after work and crawled under my truck in the middle of December under a setting sun to fix my breaks. A guy I didn’t really get along with. And here I sit in corporate America after having just been abandoned by the “friends” I went to lunch with earlier that day, waiting for a jump from my dad. I think I made my mind up that day. I was much happier in “Blue Collar America”. I enjoyed breaking a sweat, and going home with sore muscles, but with a sense of accomplishment. I missed the joking around and the good times we had while working our butts off. I missed the pay, and the benefits. And I really missed working with my hands. I was going to go back to painting, where I felt more like myself, where I didn’t have to pretend that I was someone more important than I was… where I could just be a guy on a crew working with the other guys to get the job done. I stayed at that company about another month.
So where did I go from there? My family and I moved to Florida. My wife had an opportunity to move with the hotel she was working at to a new property and be on the opening team. I was ready for a change and wanted to get back into the trades, so off we went. It is not easy to just pack up and start a new life somewhere else, but we faced it head on. I went to the Union hall in Orlando and asked if they were looking for painters and once again started at the bottom. I went to work at Disney World as a painter. My first day back in the trades was HARD. I used muscles that I hadn’t used in a couple of years and when I went home I went right to bed. But I LOVED the feeling. I soon became a foreman, and ran the nightshift at Epcot. I started volunteering at the Union Hall and shortly thereafter I was asked if I wanted to work part time in the training department, helping to train the next generation of painters. Fast-forward a couple of years and I am now the Training Director for the Florida Finishing Trades Institute. We train Painters, Glaziers, Drywall Finishers, Wall Coverers, Tradeshow and Convention Workers, Scenic Artists, Faux Finishers, Certified Industrial Coating Applicators, and Floor Covering Installers in our 5 training centers (soon to be 6) in the state.
The GREAT thing is I am still in the trade and I get to watch people who have never touched a can of paint in their lives develop into a craftsman that can earn into the 6 figure income bracket. I have always been able to pay my bills and provide for my family through painting. I am blessed that I am able to give back to the trade that has given me so much. This is an honorable trade and I truly owe so much to it. I am proud to be a painter, I am proud of what I have been able to accomplish and where I am in my life right now. I am happy the direction I’m going. I’m glad that I am on the right career path for me. And what makes me really proud is when my son and daughter are old enough to decide if they want to go to college or into the trades, I will be able to pay for their school should they choose that. And if they decide to choose the path I have taken in the trades, I will be just as proud as if they became doctors, lawyers or anything else. I will fully support their decision and let them know that trade work is as honorable and lucrative as almost any other.
I was much happier in “Blue Collar America”. I enjoyed breaking a sweat, and going home with sore muscles, but with a sense of accomplishment. I missed the joking around and the good times we had while working our butts off. I missed the pay, and the benefits. And I really missed working with my hands. I was going to go back to painting, where I felt more like myself, where I didn’t have to pretend that I was someone more important than I was… where I could just be a guy on a crew working with the other guys to get the job done. I stayed at that company about another month.
All of story 2 is familiar, but this really hit close to home with me as that is almost exactly how I feel.
ummm, I was watching Dirty Jobs the other night and they had one or two commercials for this. Something about a mower mfr and a veteran's group that fixed up lawns which were neglected while the owner was deployed.
The deployed guy left his house/yard in the care of a buddy while he was deployed, and the friend didn't do anything. That's what I got from the website anyway.
Troublco
03-18-2010, 21:01
I've often thought that one of the biggest disservices that we have done to our kids is de-emphasize the "manual arts", as they used to be called. You used to be able to go to wood shop, auto shop, metal shop, and things like that in High School. From what I've heard, nearly all of this has been eliminated.
It stands to reason that not everyone can be an IT person. There are X number of IT jobs. Same with other jobs. But on the flipside of that, EVERY type of work needs X number of people to cover the amount of work necessary. But kids these days all seem to think that they're going to be an IT specialist. And they don't value any sort of manual skill. They don't seem to value the fruits of labor. I really think they're missing out, and at the same time there's a labor pool going unutilized. We still need masons, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, cabinetmakers, drywall/plasterers, painters, manual machinists, welders, HVAC folks, auto mechanics, diesel mechanics, aircraft mechanics, and on and on.
It seems like some folks are figuring this out; but it's a while after they got out of High School. I've turned wrenches for a living, and now I don't. I worked my way to a desk job; there are definitely times I miss just turning a wrench. I don't get much of a job well done feeling; but I don't have to work out in the heat or cold so much anymore, either!
Not to mention the fact that not everyone WANTS to be an IT guy. I majored in Economics, and loved my classes, but I've never even considered getting a job in the field. No thanks. I would rather dig ditches all day than what I do now.
I'd love to learn a trade like construction. I've helped install windows and drywall and I liked it, it was fun and gave me a sense of accomplishment.
theGinsue
03-18-2010, 23:44
Growing up, I never learned too much in regards to trade types of skills from anyone in my family. Oh, I have Electricicty/Electronics classes in HS with huge blocks of instruction in Residential Wiring
It wasn't until after HS that I had to learn how to do many of those "trade" (often referred to as "blue collar"") items out of financial necessity. While not particularly great at them (I'll never earn at living off of those skills), I can get by.
My dad encouraged me to learn a white collar trade. The assumption was that those jobs received a higher salary. I have since found that this isn't necessarily true. I'm an It guy. I hate computers but I'm good with them. I've experienced the most satisfaction in doing blue collar jobs. With the current job situation, I worry every day that my company will make some cut-backs - and I'll be a part of that. If that occurs, my chances of getting another job in a timely manner aren't so great. If I were skilled in a trade profession, I'd at least be able to try to find piecemeal work to get by. I don't really have that option in the IT industry.
I guess I didn't really have a point, I just felt like sharing.
I just felt like sharing.
Freaking Communist.
Freaking Communist.
[ROFL1][ROFL2]
theGinsue
03-19-2010, 15:20
[ROFL1] I must admit, I didn't see that one coming!
There are two aspects to various occupations, the mental and the physical. Most of what I has been discussed here has covered the mental. The talk of the physical side has been limited to bring tired at night or keeping in better shape.
It is my belief that for the majority of people the more physical you are the faster you wear out your body. This is not true for everybody but it is for most. Blue collar work is more demanding on your body. Most of the blue collar workers I know that are in their late 40s and early 50s look like they are in their 60s. I see bad eyes, arthritic and trashed joint backs, necks, and joints, and hearing loss just to start.
A lot of the blue-collar workers I know don't want their kids to follow in their footsteps because of this.
I chose to go the blue collar route because I knew it would drive me nuts not to be working with my hands. I understand the satisfaction that comes with that kind of work.
I am not arguing against people choosing a blue collar career path. It just seems that the physical aspect of that hasn't been acknowledged here and it is a valid point to consider in this discussion.
I think for the most part the mental part is more inportant that the physical. Do what makes you happy.
Have a Good Day.
If that was true, there would be no athletes. I see what you mean, but it is probably from other stuff, not just physical work.
Hey,,, I don't look 60... Yet...[LOL]
I think anyway...
GreenScoutII
03-19-2010, 20:12
You know Stu,, 22years of being "Skilled labor",, That is the first time I have ever known an "Office type" admit that..
TRUE WORDS, MY BLUE COLLAR BROTHER![Beer]
GreenScoutII
03-19-2010, 21:29
I don't know how I missed this thread earlier...
Anyway, Like some of the others, I too was encouraged to go to college and get a degree. My folks wanted me to have the best in life and all of that, so that was the direction I was pushed. Problem was, I had an absolute hatred of school. I was a good student, but couldn't stand being stuck in a classroom. I was what you might call a "late bloomer". I was short, chubby, and wore glasses. Needless to say, I got picked on a lot. I'm not one to just turn the other cheek, so I had to fight a lot as well. To sum up, jr high and high school were a miserable experience for me.
I got my first job working at a burger joint at 15 and it was the first place where I ever really felt like I fit in. I discovered I am very task oriented and enjoy having productive work to do. There were also a lot of pretty girls working there, which I didn't mind at all.[Stooge]
I decided I hated school and really, really wanted to drop out. Fortunately, my father who is far wiser than I am, prevented me from doing so. Instead, we worked out a way where I could graduate a full year early and get right into college. That was the rout I went.
I come from a middle class family who was stuck in that hard spot of making too much money for me to qualify for any of the free grants, but not having enough money to send me to college. As such, I had to work too. I got a part time job at Hugh M. Woods, the old lumber company when I was just 18. I started stocking shelves and working in the lumber yard. Well, between the ages of 15 and 18, I grew from being about 5'7' and 160 lbs to 6'1" and 180. Endless hours of stacking bags of concrete and sheets of plywood made me strong. I started to have real confidence in myself for the first time in my life. I really loved my job there. As time went on, I dropped out of college and decided to just work. This was both a good and a bad decision.
I worked for them for more than 9 years gradually moving up within the company. I learned a lot of valuable lessons about myself in the process. I discovered that while I have no problem taking on responsibility, I have no desire to be responsible for other people's work. I also discovered I hate paperwork. I am probably the worst salesman in the history of the world, and I have a pathological hatred of the telephone. I also learned I have precious little desire to work with the public. I prefer to have some concrete task to accomplish and I despise being interrupted from that task. One of the things I enjoyed most was when I was real young, 19 or 20 or so, working in the yard sometimes some of the contractors I knew would hire me on for a few days when I wasn't working at Woods. As much as I enjoyed my time there, it was probably a good thing for me that they went out of business. Even though at some level I knew retail was a dead end job, I was for some reason reluctant to try something else...
After I left Woods, I took a job as a purchasing agent for a local plumbing supply company. This gave me my first taste and exposure to what was destined to be my career.
I started as a plumber's apprentice at almost 30 years of age. I wish to God I would have done it at 18. I have my Journeyman's license now and have never been happier. I wouldn't trade it for anything...
Could I make more money in a white collar occupation? Maybe....
My wife is a senior financial analyst with Hewlitt Packard. She has both her MBA and her CPA. She typically works 60 hour weeks and hates it. When construction is booming and I'm working 50-55 hour weeks, I can make damn near as much as she does....
I know I have been blessed and I'm damn glad to be a plumber. I'm glad to see Mr. Rowe acknowledge the need to bring back the respect to the skilled trades that they deserve.
Troublco
03-19-2010, 21:35
Freaking Communist.
Wow, Irving's gettin' mean.............
I thought he just had a vacation? Shouldn't he be, like, the kinder, gentler Irving for a little while??
[ROFL1]
theGinsue
03-19-2010, 21:45
Wow, Irving's gettin' mean.............
I thought he just had a vacation? Shouldn't he be, like, the kinder, gentler Irving for a little while??
[ROFL1]
Irving is likethe whole "box of chocolates" thing - you never know what you're going to get.
[ROFL3]
68Charger
03-19-2010, 21:47
Wow, Irving's gettin' mean.............
I thought he just had a vacation? Shouldn't he be, like, the kinder, gentler Irving for a little while??
[ROFL1]
I'm thinking he's in training for arfcom.. that's the kind of comment you'd see there all the time.. but they MEAN it...
I think this was just in good fun... and it was funny.. [Coffee]
Troublco
03-19-2010, 21:49
Irving is likethe whole "box of chocolates" thing - you never know what you're going to get.
[ROFL3]
So I'm thinking that what we got back was the nutty one?[ROFL1]
I'm sure it was in fun. And that's why I avoid ARFcom. Much better group of folks here...............
theGinsue
03-19-2010, 21:52
And that's why I avoid ARFcom. Much better group of folks here...............
You get a big AMEN for that one:
AMEN!
68Charger
03-19-2010, 22:05
Irving is likethe whole "box of chocolates" thing - you never know what you're going to get.
[ROFL3]
[ROFL3] "Irving Gump" [ROFL1]
seriously, that was just so spot on to describe the GMKIA posts...
I sit in my office and watch contractor after contractor pull in, complain about not having any work for their 300,000 dollar a year business, then drive off in their F-650. I sit there and wish I could go work with them the rest of the day.
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