View Full Version : How do I become an electrician?
So I've gotten the idea to see if I can become an electrician. I have zero formal education in this industry, but know that I'm plenty smart enough to learn it.
So....
1) Where is a good place to get some formal education?
2) I need a job in the mean time of course. Is there anyway I can do an apprenticeship or something before I go through a trade school or something?
3) I've already got a Bachelors in Economics. If I find some where to take classes, am I going to be forced to waste my money on a bunch of core classes that I don't need?
4) I'm doing some research about this right now, but thought I'd ask here at the same time. Please don't think I'm expecting to be spoon fed and am not looking for myself at the same time.
llostwolf
03-17-2010, 23:12
Usually you have to start as an apprentice and any good company will put you though the classes to get licensed. I may know some folks hiring but starting wage for an apprentice is something like $12 an hour and you would have to log alot of hours to get a wiremans or journeyman's.
Yeah, that's what Marlin was saying earlier. Right now I'm doing okay on $15 an hour, but don't usually even work a 40 hour work week. I might be able to pull off starting at $12/hr depending on how many hours that means and how fast I can move up in pay. I'd also consider a trying to pick up a part time job, but that might be pretty tough if I'm already working 50-60 hours or something at the main job.
If you've got more information or someone I can talk to, I'd gladly take it. Thanks for the response.
llostwolf
03-17-2010, 23:34
Taken from Colorados web page
its looks like at least two years before a raise but i can ask tomorrow if your serious
RESIDENTIAL WIREMAN
Applicants for a Colorado residential wireman's license are required to provide verification of two years of electrical construction wiring experience, for lights, heat, and power; of one, two, three, and four family dwellings.
JOURNEYMAN ELECTRICIAN
Applicants for a Colorado journeyman electrician's license are required to provide verification of four years of electrical construction wiring experience, for lights, heat, and power; with a minimum of two years of that time being commercial and/or industrial work. Verification of experience must state the percentage of your time spent performing commercial/industrial wiring, and the percentage of your time spent performing residential wiring.
MASTER ELECTRICIANApplicants for a Colorado master electrician's license are required to provide verification of five years of electrical experience; four years of that time must be electrical construction wiring, for lights, heat, and power; with a minimum of two years of that time being commercial and/or industrial work. One additional year must be in planning, lay-out, supervising, and installing wiring, apparatus, and equipment for electrical light, heat, and power.
Applicants who hold a Colorado journeyman electrician's license are required to provide verification of one full year of planning and lay-out experience, in addition to the time previously verified.
Well, some quick math tells me that I only need to work an extra 10 hours a week to make the same as the $15/hr I've been surviving on for the last two years (got laid off from a $40k job before that. OUCH). So yes, I guess I am serious. I'll call them and feel them out a bit, see just how likely it will be that I can get the hours (or overtime) required to get enough pay to keep supporting my family. I really appreciate your help.
I've found these two websites. Is this the kind of place I need to be looking?
http://www.ibew111.com/
http://www.djeatc68.com/
This second one looks like I could start out working at the wage I earn now, and taking classes at the same time. Seems promising. Also, in the first link, it looks like you can register at the end of March and start in April, which would be about as perfect timing as I could ever hope for.
My son in law, all his brothers and dad are master electricians. They went to trade school, and now some work out of the Union Hall. But work has been real slow.
gnihcraes
03-18-2010, 09:35
nice thing about the electrician career, many I know have become other things with that knowledge - working for companies on computers and phone systems etc later on in life.
I just got off the phone with the Denver Union (second link). I got some more information and it was a mix of positive and negative stuff. The process takes a little longer than I'd like (can't apply until April 7th) and the director did mention that there could be periods of no work for up to 3 months. He did say though, that for the most part apprentices are gainfully employed. I plan on going down to the office to apply on the 7th though. I just need to find something stable to do in the mean time.
GreenScoutII
03-18-2010, 09:48
Irv, now is probably not the best time to get into one of the trades. Contrary to what some might tell you, electricians and plumbers are not recession proof occupations. New construction is all but dead right now, not a lot of remodel work is being done, and service work sucks too much to contemplate.
If you do want to start into the electrical trade, you will have to start as an apprentice. Virtually all of your training will be on the job because, outside of the union, there is no formal classroom education beyond manufacturer's product training. It is incumbent upon you to seek the knowledge required to grow in your profession. I will warn you, they will try to kill you with every hard, labor intensive job in the shop for at least your first year. Accept it and embrace it.
I don't know how strong the union is in the Denver area. If they have a strong presence, you are better off working for a union shop as the pay, benefits, and working conditions are generally much better than non-union. Unfortunately, most places in Colorado don't have a strong union presence and so the few union guys I know spend a lot of time "on the books" waiting for work.
If I haven't scared you off, you will probably find that after the initial year or so of hard physical work you will start to learn a lot and really enjoy your work. Before I was a plumber, I had a desk job. I can't tell you how much better it is to be out in the field working with my hands than pecking at a computer or talking on the phone all day. You will have real satisfaction and a sense of accomplishment that one simply cannot get from sitting in an office.
As for licensing, the state of Colorado only licenses two construction trades. Plumbers and electricians. Everybody else is licensed by the county (or building department) where they live and work. The upside to this is that these two trades have not become dominated by cheap immigrant labor in the way that framing, concrete, roofing, and HVAC have. Generally speaking, strating wages for a green apprentice plumber or electrician are in the 8-12 dollar per hour range depending on where you live. In the Denver area, it might be a little higher.
I would say if you survive your first two years scraping by and get your residential wireman's license, you can probably be making 18-20 per hour. Get your Journeyman's license (after four years) and you will probably see 20 - 25 per hour (sometimes more) depending on demand and more importantly, where you live.
There you go, thats my take on the subject.
GreenScoutII
03-18-2010, 09:51
nice thing about the electrician career, many I know have become other things with that knowledge - working for companies on computers and phone systems etc later on in life.
Not to go off topic here, but that is the best damn avatar pic I've ever seen!
Irv, now is probably not the best time to get into one of the trades. Contrary to what some might tell you, electricians and plumbers are not recession proof occupations. New construction is all but dead right now, not a lot of remodel work is being done, and service work sucks too much to contemplate.<SNIP>
Yep I'd say think long and hard about it at this time..
Why do you think I've been here so much.. A few of my sources have been telling me, other than the odd job here and there They haven't been doing full 40hr weeks..
Granted My CLP gig isn't the standard To judge how things are going, but it can come close. The last two I was even offed was were for a couple of days and that was it.. One was just to go help out pull some wire for the rest of the day.. That one they called at 1:30, so I figure that meant that they had screwed the pooch..
Heck I'd almost say check out the Plumbers also, at least they get more service calls than sparkies do.. so that might be something..
Irv, now is probably not the best time to get into one of the trades. Contrary to what some might tell you, electricians and plumbers are not recession proof occupations. New construction is all but dead right now, not a lot of remodel work is being done, and service work sucks too much to contemplate.
I appreciate the warning, but I feel like this is the case with pretty much every industry right now. I just need to decide if there is a better time than now to try and break into the industry.
I've been looking pretty hard at working for Union Pacific, but they are currently not hiring in Denver. They had an opening in Grand Junction, but that is to far. I've been checking the website at least once a week though because I've noticed that the job openings have been changing at least that often.
GreenScoutII
03-18-2010, 11:41
Well I wish you luck Irv. I think you'll enjoy working with your hands and have a lot of fun doing your job from day to day. Just do your homework and decide what you want to do. It will work out in the end.
Man, I've been calling around and I just hear more and more about lay offs and taking along time to get work. Not looking great so far. Hopefully I hear back on those other jobs I applied for earlier this week.
DD977GM2
03-18-2010, 11:47
I have family in the Pipefitters and IBEW and as an apprentice, once your labor number comes up, you will be working. The benefit from having you work as an apprentice and getting the OJT and then taking classes with them. As others have said though, the industry is slow and until your labor number comes up, they fill out of work apprentices first then go to the labor pool.
Good Luck. Check out Vestas America in Brighton. I just did work out there and they are still building a huge facility and looking to employ of 2k people and have only acquired 5% of the 2k folks and still growing.
I'm looking them up right now, thanks.
Stu,, If you do find something.. Let me know,, I can hook you up with some stuff you'll need tool wise..
Why thank you sir. I just got done talking with my dad who was a building engineer for about 20 years (was the head engineer for 1801 California St in Denver). He suggested I look at something along those lines as well.
Oh, I have triples and quadruples of most of the basic stuff.. So, no problem..
I have a multimeter, a pair of wire strippers, some rainbow wire, an old motion detector, and some rechargeable batteries.
I'm sure the MD will come in handy...[LOL]
years back I was working on an IT helpdesk, and one of the guys there up and quit his job to go be an electrician.
He was gone one full day.
The next day he called the boss and asked for his job back.
Boss said "nope".
Sounds like he didn't spend anytime thinking about anything. The person that just leaves a job one day with zero notice is not a good decision maker.
robsterclaw
03-18-2010, 19:04
This may sound like a stupid bit of advice, but here goes anyway. Always be careful. A guy I worked with at Pizza Hut was a journey man or master, I can't remember. We both delivered part time, but he did the electric for new home builds. There was supposed to be NO power to a home he was wiring. Seems he checked things out in the morning her got there. Started working, and some moron sent power to the house. And he died. Was very sad.
gnihcraes
03-18-2010, 19:14
This may sound like a stupid bit of advice, but here goes anyway. Always be careful. A guy I worked with at Pizza Hut was a journey man or master, I can't remember. We both delivered part time, but he did the electric for new home builds. There was supposed to be NO power to a home he was wiring. Seems he checked things out in the morning her got there. Started working, and some moron sent power to the house. And he died. Was very sad.
Stuff happens with any job like this. I too knew a great guy, really sharp, thought he knew his stuff... got zapped too, gone.
I believe lock out / tag out is the moral to the story on some of this...
Like treating a gun as if it were always loaded...
"Lockout/Tagout (LOTO)" refers to specific practices and procedures to safeguard employees from the unexpected energization or startup of machinery and equipment, or the release of hazardous energy during service or maintenance activities.
Approximately 3 million workers service equipment and face the greatest risk of injury if lockout/tagout is not properly implemented. Compliance with the lockout/tagout standard (29 CFR 1910.147 (http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9804)) prevents an estimated 120 fatalities and 50,000 injuries each year. Workers injured on the job from exposure to hazardous energy lose an average of 24 workdays for recuperation. In a study conducted by the United Auto Workers (UAW), 20% of the fatalities (83 of 414) that occurred among their members between 1973 and 1995 were attributed to inadequate hazardous energy control procedures specifically, lockout/tagout procedures.
Yeah, that's pretty crappy. Thank you for keeping my safety in mind. I also knew a guy who died suddenly when I was delivering pizza. Only he worked next door at Blockbuster and over dosed on Oxycontin.
That's why one checks everything, even if you just checked it..
Out of 22 years, I've only been hit real bad twice. and maybe an average of 1-2 times a year.. Most of them were just getting stupid.. Mainly when I first started...[Abused]
ChadAmberg
03-19-2010, 08:46
Stuff happens with any job like this. I too knew a great guy, really sharp, thought he knew his stuff... got zapped too, gone.
I believe lock out / tag out is the moral to the story on some of this...
Like treating a gun as if it were always loaded...
"Lockout/Tagout (LOTO)" refers to specific practices and procedures to safeguard employees from the unexpected energization or startup of machinery and equipment, or the release of hazardous energy during service or maintenance activities.
Approximately 3 million workers service equipment and face the greatest risk of injury if lockout/tagout is not properly implemented. Compliance with the lockout/tagout standard (29 CFR 1910.147 (http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9804)) prevents an estimated 120 fatalities and 50,000 injuries each year. Workers injured on the job from exposure to hazardous energy lose an average of 24 workdays for recuperation. In a study conducted by the United Auto Workers (UAW), 20% of the fatalities (83 of 414) that occurred among their members between 1973 and 1995 were attributed to inadequate hazardous energy control procedures specifically, lockout/tagout procedures.
I still have my lockout tags and lock from over 15 years ago when I did some industrial electrician work. I keep it right up front of my tool kit so even if I'm just rewiring stuff around the house like last weekend, I always remember when getting my tools to go shut off breakers.
And yes, your first year is going to suck hard. I worked in the Chambers Works, in New Jersey. A more polluted, filthy, nasty place you'll never be, and it's even worse in the Chambers Works. That's where all the freon was made from Hydrogen Fluoride. The "safety briefing" was essentially "All the guards are armed, because if you get HF on you, they're going to put a bullet in your head to end the suffering. Sign here!" I also got to spend several days in a space suit, walking around doing work inside the building that made all the lead for leaded gasoline for a hundred years. Nasty stuff.
GreenScoutII
03-19-2010, 09:30
Well, in general I think sparkies have it a little easier than we plumbers do, but at least if we cut into a "hot" line, we just get wet[Swim]
Actually the wost jobsite injury I've ever seen happened to an electrician's apprentice. I worked for a shop which had both plumbers and electricians so we would frequently be in the same house. Anyway, one day the sparkies were cutting trench for electrical service to this house with a Ditch Witch. Somehow, and I'm not sure of the specifics, one of the guys got his foot caught up in the stinger. It pulled his leg through between the cutting chain and the machine it's self. It stripped the muscle from his thigh right down to the bone. By some miracle, it missed his femoral artery.
That guy was just a young kid, 20 or 22 as I recall. Laid him up for a year before he returned to work.
Well, in general I think sparkies have it a little easier than we plumbers do, but at least if we cut into a "hot" line, we just get wet[Swim]
Well,, Come help pull the 750mcm about a 1000' by hand in a manhole when the big boss thinks that it might hurt the tugger. Then, let me know how much "easier" it is...[Tooth]
True story by the way...
GreenScoutII
03-19-2010, 10:01
Well,, Come help pull the 750mcm about a 1000' by hand in a manhole when the big boss thinks that it might hurt the tugger. Then, let me know how much "easier" it is...[Tooth]
True story by the way...
http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif Ok, fair enough... I'll help you with that as soon as we get done excavating a pit about six feet across and six feet deep by hand. See, we're installing a new backwater valve to a small apartment complex and there is no access for heavy equipment where this thing has to go.
Did I mention the soil is a heavy clay that is only slightly less dense than iron? Oh, and after we install the valve, we have to use a cherry picker to drop the concrete access pit into place because, again, no access for heavy equipment...
Thats what we call a "Redneck backhoe"....
I had no idea when I started that plumbing involved so much digging...
Seriously though, I've seen you guys struggling with that heavy assed cable and it looks like it sucks....
I'd much rather do electrical work than plumbing. I was assisting a little plumbing a few weeks ago and I was thinking that plumbing would be the easiest job in the world.....if you were in a large, well lit, dry workshop 100% of the time. Laying around in mud under a house sucks. Kudos to you for doing it GreenScout.
GreenScoutII
03-19-2010, 10:23
I'd much rather do electrical work than plumbing. I was assisting a little plumbing a few weeks ago and I was thinking that plumbing would be the easiest job in the world.....if you were in a large, well lit, dry workshop 100% of the time. Laying around in mud under a house sucks. Kudos to you for doing it GreenScout.
Well thank you Irv...
Actually, new construction is seldom all that bad. Its just service work that tends to be nasty and really suck. Still though, I wouldn't trade for office work. I guess I'm a sick monkey.[Tooth]
The best part of my job at the agency so far has been painting my office and organizing the wires under my desk.
Thats what we call a "Redneck backhoe"....
I had no idea when I started that plumbing involved so much digging...
Just replace plumbing with electrical...[Tooth]
I have one for you, Hoisting 4" GRC 70' in the air by hand.
GreenScoutII
03-19-2010, 10:44
I have one for you, Hoisting 4" GRC 70' in the air by hand.
Ugh... That sounds heavy.... What exactly is GRC? It sounds like it might suck as much as humping 4" cast iron 35' up on scaffolds by hand...
I'd much rather do electrical work than plumbing. I was assisting a little plumbing a few weeks ago and I was thinking that plumbing would be the easiest job in the world.....if you were in a large, well lit, dry workshop 100% of the time. Laying around in mud under a house sucks. Kudos to you for doing it GreenScout.
Chances are, You'll be in the same spot as a sparkie...[ROFL1]
Ugh... That sounds heavy.... What exactly is GRC? It sounds like it might suck as much as humping 4" cast iron 35' up on scaffolds by hand...
Galvanized Ridged Conduit... I'd say roughly equvilent to the same sized cast iron..
If you think you'll escape mud as a sparkie,, Here's a god one for you..
Think it was '93 or '94.. I was out working on the Kaiser building out in Aurora, I got crawlspace duty, Running lights and power, plus run 2" feeders to where they needed to go up..
I got everything layed out and was getting ready to go, when it started snowing.. The building wasn't closed in yet, so all of seemed like it ended up in the crawlspace..
Turned the crawlspace into a nice little mudhole.. They got the floors poured and the first level close in.. Funniest part about it, It turned the crawlspace into it's own self contained weather system.. There would be "fog" in the morning then "rain" in the afternoon..
Fun stuff...
Nah, I realize that you have to be a sparky in all weather, but it's still better than returning phone calls.
GreenScoutII
03-19-2010, 12:30
I was doing a re-pipe on the west side of Colorado Springs a few years back. Changing out the old galvanized water pipe for copper. Well, this old house had only a small access door, maybe 24X24, to the crawlspace located outside. Well, I got volunteered to crawl under and start pulling down the old galvie. I lay down flat and start crawling on my belly toward the other side of the house. I get about half way across when I see green eye shine heading for me at about mach 1. Well, there was no where for me to go, so I just covered my head and waited for it to be over.
I feel something run across my back and shoot out the door. My boss yells down, "You OK?" I say yeah, what the hell was that, a cat? He says, "NO, BIG ASS RACOON!!"
I think I peed just a little bit......
You should have used a commanding voice and said, "Stop right there sir! I'm notifying the police!"
Now is a bad time to break into the electrical trade. There just isn't much work going on. I bid my butt off, and if I put any profit into the job you can bet I won't even be in the running. Very competitive. Alot of companies are buying jobs and banking on change orders to not lose their ass.
I've been hearing a lot of that, but I can't wait until it is a good time. I'm looking for another job right now, and I'll just study up on what I can find in the mean time to make myself more marketable as an apprentice.
Can some one help me understand why I got this quiz question wrong? I'll lay it all out.
10. You are told that an air conditioner has cooled a room by 500 Btu over a certain period of time. What is this amount of energy in KWh?
(a) 147 kWh
(b) 14.7 kWh
(c) 1.47 kWh
(d) 0.147 kWh
I chose (a), but the book tells me the answer is (d). I've never been good at conversions, so this was my process.
1 Btu = 1055 joules
1 J = 1 Ws
So I did 500 Btu * 1055 J = 527,500 Ws
527,500 / 3600 = 146.5
I divided by 3600 because that is how many seconds are in an hour and I need kWh instead of kWs.
EDIT: Never mind, I see that I solved for Wh, and when you convert to kWh, you just move the decimal to the left three spots. Otherwise, did I go about solving this correctly?
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