Don't Open Carry

[edjobsman]

I am going to go way out on a limb here...

Open carry makes you look crazy. There, I said it. If it becomes a movement, and maybe it already has, it is going to hurt our cause (i.e., the right to keep and bare arms) more than it will help.

Before you jump down my throat (since I am new here and mostly an unknown), I AM NOT an anti-gun guy. I possess a concealed weapons permit and often carry a concealed handgun (Kahr PM)

So please sound off. Who is crazy - me or the guy with the firearm hanging from his belt in the Safeway parking lot.


I would like to give you an example of how I think open carry may actually be hurting our cause. Starbucks, as you know, recently announced that it would allow open carry in its shops. They said that not doing so would mean they would be preventing law abiding citizens from entering their establishments. Why would a liberal company like SB allow open carry in its shops if it didn’t have an ulterior motive (if you don’t think SB is liberal, just goggle “Starbucks and liberal and also check out http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/25/Business/Coffee_with_steam.shtml)? In my opinion this company is trying to encourage open carry because it thinks it has found a way to highlight a fringe element in our society that needs more negative attention focused on it (Note: I do not believe open carry is a fringe activity, but I do believe SB does). SB thinks this negative attention is going to advance their liberal agenda. I believe SB may be trying to lure open carry folks into their shops for the sole purpose of making law abiding citizens look like loonies in the eyes of an already hoplophobic society.

The practice of liberals flaunting guns or encouraging others to do so in order to promote this hoplophoia does not end with SB. Look at all the liberal film directors and actors who support anti-gun causes yet make movies depicting firearms solely as instruments of death and mayhem. When is the last time you saw a Hollywood production about skeet shooting or a CMP-sponsored junior's shooting event?


I am not trying to denigrate those of you who want to open carry. If the law allows it, then by all means do it. In truth, though, conversations about current laws regarding open carry don’t really interest me. Whether open carry is against the law or granted by the law is not my concern. The consequences of our actions, however, should be everyone’s concern. Many open carry folks want to be provocative. They want to make it absolutely clear, in no uncertain terms, that carrying openly is their right. Some do this responsibly (e.g., through eduction, etc.) but others do it an in-your-face manner. I am just not sure an in-your-face attitude is what we need.

I have been reading forums like the Colorado AR-15 Shooters for some time now. Even though I am not a friend of anyone in the group, that I know of, I think I know my audience pretty well. I obviously knew my voice was one that would not be completely welcome here, but I believe the conversation about open carry is one that we need to have. Where do we really expect to go with this practice? I have to admit that it is heartening to hear anecdotes suggesting that most people witnessing open carry don’t really care. I am not saying that it must stop; I am saying that we need to look at the consequences down the road. Do we really want the shit to hit the fan at some point? Is that the goal here?

The old west practice of carrying a sidearm or a carbine into saloon or general store (I have to admit that would be a hoot) came to an end shortly after the turn of the century (in most places) because of the polices of shop and bar keepers, and eventually towns, municipalities, and states. In municipalities where open carry is still generally accepted, I honestly cannot think of an argument against it. If folks are used to seeing it and it is a generally accepted practice, then open carry to your heart’s content. But at starbucks, or in areas where you know the general public looks down on it, shouldn’t we think twice about what we are doing? Shouldn’t we think about the statement we are inadvertently communicating in support of the anti-gun left and in conflict with our true gun ownership causes? It would be nice if that statement were always interpreted as, “what you see here is me exercising my constitutionally granted right and I am proud to live a land where I can carry my firearm openly and I hope you are proud of it too”, but that, unfortunately is rarely the way the gun-fearing public sees it.

With that I will say this: You guys and gals who open carry are on the front lines. A part of me is proud of you and part of me thinks that I should be more supportive. Please don’t see me as an enemy. Keep up the good work. I know most of you are responsible in all respects and I applaud you for your efforts.
Cheers!

[sabot_round]

I prefer to call it "choice", not crazy.

[sniper7]

You have the right to exercise your rights...if you don't exercise them you will lose them eventually.
There is another thread on here about open carry and the people aren't bothered...most of the sheeple out there just think they are off duty cops and aren't bothered by it.

I feel it does bring more attention as people can clearly see the gun vs. concealed when nobody knows you have it.
In all reality nobody should ever be questioned for carrying a gun or gun ownership. Our rights have been diminished enough and it is time to take back our lost rights.

[opie011]

You have the right to exercise your rights...if you don't exercise them you will lose them eventually.
There is another thread on here about open carry and the people aren't bothered...most of the sheeple out there just think they are off duty cops and aren't bothered by it.

I feel it does bring more attention as people can clearly see the gun vs. concealed when nobody knows you have it.
In all reality nobody should ever be questioned for carrying a gun or gun ownership. Our rights have been diminished enough and it is time to take back our lost rights.
[Beer]

[ronaldrwl]

I am going to go way out on a limb here...

Open carry makes you look crazy. There, I said it. If it becomes a movement, and maybe it already has, it is going to hurt our cause (i.e., the right to keep and bare arms) more than it will help.

Before you jump down my throat (since I am new here and mostly an unknown), I AM NOT an anti-gun guy. I possess a concealed weapons permit and often carry a concealed handgun (Kahr PM)

So please sound off. Who is crazy - me or the guy with the firearm hanging from his belt in the Safeway parking lot.

-1

[BadShot]

Yup That sure was one hell of a limb you climbed out on. What I'm going to take issue with is your choice of presentation and verbiage. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, right or wrong.

I think using simplistic and childish labels such "crazy" do more to harm the supposed "cause" than anything else in your assessment. That would primarily be because you are purporting to be a part and supporter of said "cause".

Titling a post "Don't Open Carry" is a sure fire way to elicit members to jump down your throat, because you insisted on a patently inflammatory title and tone.

Perhaps a inquiry regarding the general community perception and stance on open carry would have been a more intelligent approach to the discussion I am going to guess you were seeking to initiate.

IM(not so)HO, your post is a failure in many of the facets you attempted to open discussion on.

Better luck next time.

And by the way, I have no issue with open carry. That too is why I don't care if I print from time to time or when I'm reaching for something on a high shelf at the store, I don't give to rats asses if someone sees my weapon. I typically do not go out of my way to open carry, but I have zero concern about someone recognizing that I am armed. I also feel zero need to pass judgment on those who chose to open carry when they do. If they act the fool, they'll receive a fools due.

[Troublco]

You have the right to exercise your rights...if you don't exercise them you will lose them eventually.
There is another thread on here about open carry and the people aren't bothered...most of the sheeple out there just think they are off duty cops and aren't bothered by it.

I feel it does bring more attention as people can clearly see the gun vs. concealed when nobody knows you have it.
In all reality nobody should ever be questioned for carrying a gun or gun ownership. Our rights have been diminished enough and it is time to take back our lost rights.

+1.

If more folks carried, I think the criminal element would have a much harder time operating with impunity because they'd be more concerned that more people can shut them down right now. I'd be happier knowing that people taking their children to school are carrying, because then any slimeballs thinking about going into what is now a gun-free zone would be up against folks who could stop them. I don't worry about the guy carrying openly and minding his own business. I get tired of all the sheeple who whine and cry and complain because they don't like what they're seeing. A right is a right, they have the right to whine like schoolgirls and the guy carrying has the right to carry.

I have ZERO respect for people who whine and cry about people carrying/owning guns and being able to protect themselves and their own, and then expect the police to be there the second they call them, and to put their lives on the line for them in the process while these folks cower.

So I could care less if they like it or not. If someone chooses to lawfully open carry, then I say go for it.

[TEAMRICO]

Has Obama started planting Anti gun Libs in the forums???
Just kidding.

People have the right to venture out of there house in there PAJAMA's and nobody is crying foul! "LOOK! she is wearing pajama's in Walmart".
Open carry is MY RIGHT and if I chose to do it then I would not expect anyone to complain. Although there will be those who are afraid that the Gov. has not come to regulate all aspects of our life and prevent me from exerciseing my rights I will do it. But out of respect for those around me I CHOOSE to conceal.
If I concealed in my PJ's nobody would say anything.

I am going to open carry sometime this week and go about my normal business to gauge the reaction on the local townsfolk and community.
I will just go about my business and see what type of reactions I get, good or bad.
NO, Im not going out to START trouble, just exercise a right.

Original Poster:
"So please sound off. Who is crazy - me or the guy with the firearm hanging from his belt in the Safeway parking lot."
Answer: YOU ARE.
Why, because he has the balls to express that fact that he IS A FREE MAN!
My 2 cents.

Like I ask my son (5YO) Son, WHO are you? He says, Im an American. Then I ask and WHAT are you? His response if "FREE".

[4gunfun]

I think we listen to all the liberal news media way more than we think. Crazy gun owner does this. Religious right wingers hate that. Yada yada yada...... My kids probally think I'm a little crazy for carrying open or concealed, My wife thinks I'm asking for trouble if I OC. I think if everyone OC it would be no big deal and there would be less punks holding up banks, liquer stores and 7-11's. Don't drink the koolaid!!!!!!! [Rant1]

[Holy Diver]

Has Obama started planting Anti gun Libs in the forums???
Just kidding.
[ROFL2]
Until the other day I thought it was illegal to open carry.. Now all I need is a hand gun so I can start flexing rights [Weight]

[TS12000]

Has Obama started planting Anti gun Libs in the forums???
Just kidding.

People have the right to venture out of there house in there PAJAMA's and nobody is crying foul! "LOOK! she is wearing pajama's in Walmart".
Open carry is MY RIGHT and if I chose to do it then I would not expect anyone to complain. Although there will be those who are afraid that the Gov. has not come to regulate all aspects of our life and prevent me from exerciseing my rights I will do it. But out of respect for those around me I CHOOSE to conceal.
If I concealed in my PJ's nobody would say anything.

I'm crying foul about the unspoken walmart dress code! You should check this out if you haven't seen it already it's hilarious:

http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?page_id=9798

[cysoto]

Now all I need is a hand gun so I can start flexing rights [Weight]
Remember not to do any "flexing of you rights" in the city of Denver. [NoEvil]

[4gunfun]

[ROFL2]
Until the other day I thought it was illegal to open carry.. Now all I need is a hand gun so I can start flexing rights [Weight] There you go, another informed American.

[Mtn.man]

I'm Crazy.....

[Irving]

People think you are crazy because people like you allow them to by encouraging them to.

I wear my seat belt, but only when no one is looking.

[Ryan_Th3_K1d]

From what I've seen most people don't really care if your ocing as long as you don't look like a thug with a pistol hanging out of the front of your pants that are falling of you...

[jerrymrc]

I'm Crazy.....

We know this. ;)

[funkfool]

I have open carried several times - I think I'll run down to Target and OC... we need cat food...
It is my belief that OC promotes the rule of law and discourages criminal activity.
If someone is OC'ing near an individual with criminal intentions, I believe that person would prefer to go where no one is armed to commit his criminal activity.
Agree or disagree?

[Wulf202]

Remember not to do any "flexing of you rights" in the city of Denver. [NoEvil]

and broofeild and golden, and arvada and lakewood and westminister that i know of

[Irving]

I've open carried in Westminster before. What is your source?

[funkfool]

Via RMGO:
http://www.rmgo.org/faq/

Prohibiting Municipalities. (Denver, Arvada and Breckenridge. Please message us if you know of other municipalities who ban open carry).
29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.
A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.
At this website (http://www.colorado.gov/colorado-government/municipalgovs.html) is found a table of all the municipal government names, most of which have websites.
Denver's prohibition on open carry (http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=10257&sid=6), which is not explicitly stated.
Arvada's open carry prohibition (http://arvadapd.org/about-arvadapd/arvadas-municipal-ordinance-on-open-carry-of-firearms)
Pueblo's open carry ban (http://www.pueblo.us/documents/Clerk/Code_Charter/Title11.pdf) in government or private buildings that post "no firearms." on pages 18-20
(on page 40 of this document is Pueblo's law against weapons -- open carry only, as state law governs concealed -- possession in places that sell alcohol)
Castle Rock has an open carry ban that extends to nearly every city-owned location. Castle Rock City Ordinance 9.04.165 (http://crgov.com/CodePrint.asp?CodeID=1364)

And:


The Meyer decision: http://www.rmgo.org/alerts/2004-denverruling.htm (http://www.rmgo.org/alerts/2004-denverruling.htm)

Points in the decision relevant to this thread:

1) Colorado state law allowing loaded handgun in vehicle without CCW permit is legal, including within Denver

2) Denver law prohibiting open carry in Denver is legal.

[sniper7]

Via RMGO:
http://www.rmgo.org/faq/

Prohibiting Municipalities. (Denver, Arvada and Breckenridge. Please message us if you know of other municipalities who ban open carry).
29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.
A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.
At this website (http://www.colorado.gov/colorado-government/municipalgovs.html) is found a table of all the municipal government names, most of which have websites.
Denver's prohibition on open carry (http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=10257&sid=6), which is not explicitly stated.
Arvada's open carry prohibition (http://arvadapd.org/about-arvadapd/arvadas-municipal-ordinance-on-open-carry-of-firearms)
Pueblo's open carry ban (http://www.pueblo.us/documents/Clerk/Code_Charter/Title11.pdf) in government or private buildings that post "no firearms." on pages 18-20
(on page 40 of this document is Pueblo's law against weapons -- open carry only, as state law governs concealed -- possession in places that sell alcohol)
Castle Rock has an open carry ban that extends to nearly every city-owned location. Castle Rock City Ordinance 9.04.165 (http://crgov.com/CodePrint.asp?CodeID=1364)

And:


those are the only ones that I know of as well.

[TFOGGER]

+1.

If more folks carried, I think the criminal element would have a much harder time operating with impunity because they'd be more concerned that more people can shut them down right now. I'd be happier knowing that people taking their children to school are carrying, because then any slimeballs thinking about going into what is now a gun-free zone would be up against folks who could stop them. I don't worry about the guy carrying openly and minding his own business. I get tired of all the sheeple who whine and cry and complain because they don't like what they're seeing. A right is a right, they have the right to whine like schoolgirls and the guy carrying has the right to carry.

I have ZERO respect for people who whine and cry about people carrying/owning guns and being able to protect themselves and their own, and then expect the police to be there the second they call them, and to put their lives on the line for them in the process while these folks cower.

So I could care less if they like it or not. If someone chooses to lawfully open carry, then I say go for it.

+10000

Simple fact: Police are not employed to protect YOU from crime, they are there to protect the "people" from crime when possible, investigate crimes, apprehend suspects, and proffer recommendations for charges to the prosecuting attorney's office. Open carry is an option available to most persons that can legally own arms to exercise their right to self defense. I choose to carry concealed most of the time, but I won't be intimidated by the socialists into being ashamed of exercising my constitutionally validated right to self defense. They wouldn't tolerate someone infringing on their First or Fourth Amendment rights, so why should we tolerate their attempt to abridge our Second Amendment rights?

[KevDen2005]

I am not a fan of Open Carry, but have a few times, on my way to work, but I usually don't have a badge on my belt so no one really knows. I don't think it makes anyone really look crazy but I mainly conceal carry because I don't like too much attention drawn to me. Secrecy is safety, don't remember who said that on this forum but I have used it ever since.

I think it just comes down to personal choice and safety. Like I said, I prefer CC, but some people don't.

You should exercise your rights.

[KevDen2005]

+10000

Simple fact: Police are not employed to protect YOU from crime, they are there to protect the "people" from crime when possible, investigate crimes, apprehend suspects, and proffer recommendations for charges to the prosecuting attorney's office. Open carry is an option available to most persons that can legally own arms to exercise their right to self defense. I choose to carry concealed most of the time, but I won't be intimidated by the socialists into being ashamed of exercising my constitutionally validated right to self defense. They wouldn't tolerate someone infringing on their First or Fourth Amendment rights, so why should we tolerate their attempt to abridge our Second Amendment rights?

+1

I often tell people when they are afraid someone might break into their home, or someone is stalking or threatening them that it is perfectly in their legal rights to own guns, open carry, and get a CCW. People often ask me about alarms, locks, lights, dogs, etc. I always encourage all that, then say trained gun owners are the best deterrent.

I imagine my pd admin probably doesn't like that, but they have yet to find out and its not like they can really stop me from telling people what their rights are.

[KFinn]

A couple of the embedded links are broken. Seems they changed the site some.


Via RMGO:
http://www.rmgo.org/faq/

Prohibiting Municipalities. (Denver, Arvada and Breckenridge. Please message us if you know of other municipalities who ban open carry).
29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.
A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.
At this website (http://www.colorado.gov/colorado-government/municipalgovs.html) is found a table of all the municipal government names, most of which have websites.
Denver's prohibition on open carry (http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=10257&sid=6), which is not explicitly stated.
Arvada's open carry prohibition (http://arvadapd.org/about-arvadapd/arvadas-municipal-ordinance-on-open-carry-of-firearms)
Pueblo's open carry ban (http://www.pueblo.us/documents/Clerk/Code_Charter/Title11.pdf) in government or private buildings that post "no firearms." on pages 18-20
(on page 40 of this document is Pueblo's law against weapons -- open carry only, as state law governs concealed -- possession in places that sell alcohol)
Castle Rock has an open carry ban that extends to nearly every city-owned location. Castle Rock City Ordinance 9.04.165 (http://crgov.com/CodePrint.asp?CodeID=1364)

And:

[kidicarus13]

Like I ask my son (5YO) Son, WHO are you? He says, Im an American. Then I ask and WHAT are you? His response if "FREE".


and broofeild and golden, and arvada and lakewood and westminister that i know of

So where can you carry?

[kidicarus13]

+10000

Simple fact: Police are not employed to protect YOU from crime, they are there to protect the "people" from crime when possible, investigate crimes, apprehend suspects, and proffer recommendations for charges to the prosecuting attorney's office. Open carry is an option available to most persons that can legally own arms to exercise their right to self defense. I choose to carry concealed most of the time, but I won't be intimidated by the socialists into being ashamed of exercising my constitutionally validated right to self defense. They wouldn't tolerate someone infringing on their First or Fourth Amendment rights, so why should we tolerate their attempt to abridge our Second Amendment rights?


You are absolutely correct Jim. Read the first sentence of... http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

[Wulf202]

I've open carried in Westminster before. What is your source?

City of Golden http://www.cityofgolden.net/CodePrint.asp?CodeID=454
Lakewood: City of Lakewood (see the second page) http://www.lakewood.org/citycouncil/2009/07-20-09s/parkrecmemo.pdf
Westminster: Westminster (implied since not concealed) http://www.ci.westminster.co.us/code/884_1747.htm
Broomfield (City and County Attorney Opinion Page 8) http://www.broomfield.org/council/minutes/2003/minutes06_24_03.pdf
City of Arvada Open Carry --link broken

[ChunkyMonkey]

City of Golden http://www.cityofgolden.net/CodePrint.asp?CodeID=454
Lakewood: City of Lakewood (see the second page) http://www.lakewood.org/citycouncil/2009/07-20-09s/parkrecmemo.pdf
Westminster: Westminster (implied since not concealed) http://www.ci.westminster.co.us/code/884_1747.htm
Broomfield (City and County Attorney Opinion Page 8) http://www.broomfield.org/council/minutes/2003/minutes06_24_03.pdf
City of Arvada Open Carry --link broken

You may open carry in most of the mentioned townships unless you are in the municipal properties. Correct me if I am wrong. [Beer]

[ChunkyMonkey]

Who is crazy
- me

Ding ding ding!

[sniper7]

I am not a fan of Open Carry, but have a few times, on my way to work, but I usually don't have a badge on my belt so no one really knows. I don't think it makes anyone really look crazy but I mainly conceal carry because I don't like too much attention drawn to me. Secrecy is safety, don't remember who said that on this forum but I have used it ever since.

I think it just comes down to personal choice and safety. Like I said, I prefer CC, but some people don't.

You should exercise your rights.


it was probably me[Coffee]

[sniper7]

City of Golden http://www.cityofgolden.net/CodePrint.asp?CodeID=454
Lakewood: City of Lakewood (see the second page) http://www.lakewood.org/citycouncil/2009/07-20-09s/parkrecmemo.pdf
Westminster: Westminster (implied since not concealed) http://www.ci.westminster.co.us/code/884_1747.htm
Broomfield (City and County Attorney Opinion Page 8) http://www.broomfield.org/council/minutes/2003/minutes06_24_03.pdf
City of Arvada Open Carry --link broken


from the westminster site:
2. "city premises" means any city-owned recreation facility, office building, library, park, open space, trail, golf course, ice center, or other city property open to the public.

[Sixgun]

Could I carry an ar-15 into a super market. That would get attention.[Coffee] Is open carry only for pistols. I would never do this but it would get the police involved, I bet.


I would think open carry is for every gun. They shouldn't discriminate against black rifles.[Tooth]

[Seamonkey]

I am going to go way out on a limb here...

Open carry makes you look crazy. There, I said it. If it becomes a movement, and maybe it already has, it is going to hurt our cause (i.e., the right to keep and bare arms) more than it will help.

Before you jump down my throat (since I am new here and mostly an unknown), I AM NOT an anti-gun guy. I possess a concealed weapons permit and often carry a concealed handgun (Kahr PM)

So please sound off. Who is crazy - me or the guy with the firearm hanging from his belt in the Safeway parking lot.


This type of post irritates me. Let me go to a Chevy board, create an anonymous account then post that Chevy sucks and my Honda is much better. Stand back and laugh at how ticked off people get.

Do you ask a fat person not to eat in public? Then don't tell me how to carry my gun.

[Bowtie]

A gun is a tool.

[ryanek9freak]

I am going to go way out on a limb here...

Open carry makes you look crazy. There, I said it. If it becomes a movement, and maybe it already has, it is going to hurt our cause (i.e., the right to keep and bare arms) more than it will help.

Before you jump down my throat (since I am new here and mostly an unknown), I AM NOT an anti-gun guy. I possess a concealed weapons permit and often carry a concealed handgun (Kahr PM)

So please sound off. Who is crazy - me or the guy with the firearm hanging from his belt in the Safeway parking lot.

How bout you pound sand in your crotch? There I said it...

You are the one for PAYING for a rediculous "Permit" to excercise what is already an Inaliable human RIGHT. I will never ever, ever ever EVER!!! Pay to carry a firearm. WHich is why I open carry, as I am not a criminal.

[cebeu]

"...the right to keep and bare arms)...Who is crazy - me..."


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/Barearms.jpg

[funkfool]

They shouldn't discriminate against black rifles.[Tooth]
Wait... Aren't they EVIL?

[funkfool]

(i.e., the right to keep and bare arms)
BTW: Bare means not covered.
Bear: To carry (or large furry animal)
Bear Arms

[Dalendenver]

BTW: Bare means not covered.
Bear: To carry (or large furry animal)
Bear Arms


I think we should just arm bears.

[theGinsue]

Ed, you're wrong.

While I have never OC'd, this is a RIGHT that wew will not be bullied away from.

Just as with CCW, OC requires discretion, common sense, a knowledge of and desire to obey the law.

Before you come into a site like this and spout off BS like that, perhaps you should check out the different threads and get a feel for the people on the site. One of the most important traits of a good communicator is to know your audience.

[KevDen2005]

I am going to go way out on a limb here...

Open carry makes you look crazy. There, I said it. If it becomes a movement, and maybe it already has, it is going to hurt our cause (i.e., the right to keep and bare arms) more than it will help.

Before you jump down my throat (since I am new here and mostly an unknown), I AM NOT an anti-gun guy. I possess a concealed weapons permit and often carry a concealed handgun (Kahr PM)

So please sound off. Who is crazy - me or the guy with the firearm hanging from his belt in the Safeway parking lot.


I am going out on a limb here, but who the f*@& is this guy?

Sell your anti-gun agenda somewhere else!

[KevDen2005]

I think we should just arm bears.


I take back everything I said and now agree with this post

[GreenScoutII]

I guess I can see both sides of this arguement:

On one hand, open carry in certain settings is likely to attract unwanted attention and cause the carrier some unwanted headaches, even though he is just exercising his constitutional right.

On the other hand, not exercising a right is a quick way to lose it IMHO.

Personally, I seldom open carry. Usually the only time I do is in an outdoors setting with few other people around. Think night fishing for catfish for example. A few years ago I took my wife and her sister down to Brush Hollow to do some fishing at night. I've always had good luck there with nightcrawlers. Catfish get hungry for a midnight snack. Anyway, my wife decided to go back to the truck for something and I had kind of an uneasy feeling. I went to check on her and there were three guys, obviously drunk, who I saw aproaching. In a very friendly voice I said, "Hey guys, having any luck?". They were mumbling something under their breath between themselves. I turned in such a way that my .45 was visible on my hip. I made no move toward it, nor was I in any way agressive to the three "gentlemen". I just wanted to let them know, via non-verbal communication, that attempting anything nefarious was not going to end well for them. Even drunk as they were, they got the idea and left.

I can't say for sure they were up to something as they never did make an agressive move toward my wife, but I had a real uneasy gut feeling about them. Had I not shown up to check on my wife and had I not had my pistol on my hip, it might have been a different situation entirely. The Sig apparantly has excellent deterrent value.

The other side of this equation is that, as a big guy, sometimes I accidentally intimidate people. I'm a plumber who does mostly new construction. As such, frequently I'm dressed for the job site while out in public. I can look a little "rough". If I were to open carry in public day to day, I'm highly likely to really scare somebody. I have no desire to come off as some crazy guy. With my luck, some anti gunner would snap a photo of me in torn Carhart jeans, sleeveless T shirt, steel toe boots, bald head, and goatee and use this photo as a way to paint us all as loonies.[ROFL1]

I guess my point is both open and concealed carry have their place. I think its best to use discretion and decide which is appropriate for the situation and environment.

[Elhuero]

edjobsman, two points for effort on your trolling.

You do, however, need more practice if you are to reach the level of trolling LeJerk brought us in the "To the user with the offending avatar" thread.

[Irving]

I knew a guy that claimed to be tackled by police and guns pointed at him for open carrying. Except he wasn't actually open carrying. His gun was locked in his trunk. He was only wearing an empty holster. He probably looked pretty thuggish, but still.

[Elhuero]

I knew a guy that claimed to be tackled by police and guns pointed at him for open carrying. Except he wasn't actually open carrying. His gun was locked in his trunk. He was only wearing an empty holster. He probably looked pretty thuggish, but still.


I wish I could go to the lengths the police do to make themselves feel safe

[edjobsman]

I would like to give you an example of how I think open carry may actually be hurting our cause. Starbucks, as you know, recently announced that it would allow open carry in its shops. They said that not doing so would mean they would be preventing law abiding citizens from entering their establishments. Why would a liberal company like SB allow open carry in its shops if it didn’t have an ulterior motive (if you don’t think SB is liberal, just goggle “Starbucks and liberal and also check out http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/25/Business/Coffee_with_steam.shtml)? In my opinion this company is trying to encourage open carry because it thinks it has found a way to highlight a fringe element in our society that needs more negative attention focused on it (Note: I do not believe open carry is a fringe activity, but I do believe SB does). SB thinks this negative attention is going to advance their liberal agenda. I believe SB may be trying to lure open carry folks into their shops for the sole purpose of making law abiding citizens look like loonies in the eyes of an already hoplophobic society.

The practice of liberals flaunting guns or encouraging others to do so in order to promote this hoplophoia does not end with SB. Look at all the liberal film directors and actors who support anti-gun causes yet make movies depicting firearms solely as instruments of death and mayhem. When is the last time you saw a Hollywood production about skeet shooting or a CMP-sponsored junior's shooting event?


I am not trying to denigrate those of you who want to open carry. If the law allows it, then by all means do it. In truth, though, conversations about current laws regarding open carry don’t really interest me. Whether open carry is against the law or granted by the law is not my concern. The consequences of our actions, however, should be everyone’s concern. Many open carry folks want to be provocative. They want to make it absolutely clear, in no uncertain terms, that carrying openly is their right. Some do this responsibly (e.g., through eduction, etc.) but others do it an in-your-face manner. I am just not sure an in-your-face attitude is what we need.

I have been reading forums like the Colorado AR-15 Shooters for some time now. Even though I am not a friend of anyone in the group, that I know of, I think I know my audience pretty well. I obviously knew my voice was one that would not be completely welcome here, but I believe the conversation about open carry is one that we need to have. Where do we really expect to go with this practice? I have to admit that it is heartening to hear anecdotes suggesting that most people witnessing open carry don’t really care. I am not saying that it must stop; I am saying that we need to look at the consequences down the road. Do we really want the shit to hit the fan at some point? Is that the goal here?

The old west practice of carrying a sidearm or a carbine into saloon or general store (I have to admit that would be a hoot) came to an end shortly after the turn of the century (in most places) because of the polices of shop and bar keepers, and eventually towns, municipalities, and states. In municipalities where open carry is still generally accepted, I honestly cannot think of an argument against it. If folks are used to seeing it and it is a generally accepted practice, then open carry to your heart’s content. But at starbucks, or in areas where you know the general public looks down on it, shouldn’t we think twice about what we are doing? Shouldn’t we think about the statement we are inadvertently communicating in support of the anti-gun left and in conflict with our true gun ownership causes? It would be nice if that statement were always interpreted as, “what you see here is me exercising my constitutionally granted right and I am proud to live a land where I can carry my firearm openly and I hope you are proud of it too”, but that, unfortunately is rarely the way the gun-fearing public sees it.

With that I will say this: You guys and gals who open carry are on the front lines. A part of me is proud of you and part of me thinks that I should be more supportive. Please don’t see me as an enemy. Keep up the good work. I know most of you are responsible in all respects and I applaud you for your efforts.
Cheers!
[Beer]

[Irving]

I read your rebuttal and what comes to mind is this thought. "Just because you're gay, doesn't mean you should have a parade about it."

I agree that there is a difference between doing something, and doing something to purposely make a big deal about it.

[edjobsman]

Yup That sure was one hell of a limb you climbed out on. What I'm going to take issue with is your choice of presentation and verbiage. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, right or wrong.

I think using simplistic and childish labels such "crazy" do more to harm the supposed "cause" than anything else in your assessment. That would primarily be because you are purporting to be a part and supporter of said "cause".

Titling a post "Don't Open Carry" is a sure fire way to elicit members to jump down your throat, because you insisted on a patently inflammatory title and tone.

Perhaps a inquiry regarding the general community perception and stance on open carry would have been a more intelligent approach to the discussion I am going to guess you were seeking to initiate.

IM(not so)HO, your post is a failure in many of the facets you attempted to open discussion on.

Better luck next time.

And by the way, I have no issue with open carry. That too is why I don't care if I print from time to time or when I'm reaching for something on a high shelf at the store, I don't give to rats asses if someone sees my weapon. I typically do not go out of my way to open carry, but I have zero concern about someone recognizing that I am armed. I also feel zero need to pass judgment on those who chose to open carry when they do. If they act the fool, they'll receive a fools due.

You know what? I have more repect for the folks who told me to pound sand or implied that I should go fuck off.

My title did exactly what I intended it to do and the responses were exactly what I expected and desired.

[edjobsman]

This type of post irritates me. Let me go to a Chevy board, create an anonymous account then post that Chevy sucks and my Honda is much better. Stand back and laugh at how ticked off people get.

Do you ask a fat person not to eat in public? Then don't tell me how to carry my gun.


Irritant, yes - Buzzz Buzzz Buzzz

...but I am not laughing...

Thanks for allowing me to get your attention but more so for your input.

[edjobsman]

Could I carry an ar-15 into a super market. That would get attention.[Coffee] Is open carry only for pistols. I would never do this but it would get the police involved, I bet.


I would think open carry is for every gun. They shouldn't discriminate against black rifles.[Tooth]


Man, don't get me started on black rifle discrimination!

[edjobsman]

I am going out on a limb here, but who the f*@& is this guy?

Sell your anti-gun agenda somewhere else!

Isn't your limb getting rather crowded... Please try not to fall off.

The AGLs are here (and you know who you are). I assure you I am not one of them though.

Reminds me of some lines from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid:

Butch Cassidy (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000056/): Ah, you're wasting your time. They can't track us over rocks.
Sundance Kid (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000602/): Tell them that.
Butch Cassidy (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000056/): They're beginning to get on my nerves. Who are those guys?!?!

[funkfool]

I think we should just arm bears.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/kavanf1/armbears.jpg

[edjobsman]

edjobsman, two points for effort on your trolling.

You do, however, need more practice if you are to reach the level of trolling LeJerk brought us in the "To the user with the offending avatar" thread.

See, I told you this group was just nothing but class.

[edjobsman]

I read your rebuttal and what comes to mind is this thought. "Just because you're gay, doesn't mean you should have a parade about it."

I agree that there is a difference between doing something, and doing something to purposely make a big deal about it.

You are calling me gay? Now I know I am welcome. Thank you!

"Hey boy, you look mightly cute in them jeans" -Eddie Murphy.

[Irving]

No, I'm not calling you gay. I'm saying that while homosexuality doesn't bother me at all, and I think you should be able to marry whoever you want, that having a parade about it is both unnecessary and counter productive to the cause.

[edjobsman]

No, I'm not calling you gay. I'm saying that while homosexuality doesn't bother me at all, and I think you should be able to marry whoever you want, that having a parade about it is both unnecessary and counter productive to the cause.

No, you are calling me gay.

[Irving]

I was likening your interpretation of the open carry movement, to my interpretation of the gay pride movement, and saying that we feel the same.

I want a fast car again, but not so I can abuse it on the streets. Well, maybe a little.

[cebeu]

I want to see gays open carry...in a parade.

[Irving]

That might be a parade worth going to, for a few minutes. I hate parades.

[edjobsman]

See, I told you this group was just nothing but class.

I'm not trolling. I'm bottom fishing... (yeah, yeah, I know I should pull anchor and get off your reef, right?)

OK. From now on I promise to only talk about things the "community" wants to talk about. No more irritating subjects and the like. I promise I won't even think of using verbiage. From now on I will just post pretty pictures...

God, I love Starbucks!!!

[KevDen2005]

I read your rebuttal and what comes to mind is this thought. "Just because you're gay, doesn't mean you should have a parade about it."

I agree that there is a difference between doing something, and doing something to purposely make a big deal about it.


I got what you were saying from the start, and I think no matter how many times you try and break something down to the simplest explanation for people, they are just not going to get it.

[Irving]

He gets it. He's too well spoken not to. Everyone called him a troll in this thread, so he's just acting the part. Fortunately, he isn't in the other threads I've seen him post in.

[Mtn.man]

I want to see gays open carry...in a parade.

I don't.

[GunTroll]

I don't.

Me either!

[theGinsue]

I read your rebuttal and what comes to mind is this thought. "Just because you're gay, doesn't mean you should have a parade about it."

I agree that there is a difference between doing something, and doing something to purposely make a big deal about it.


You are calling me gay? Now I know I am welcome. Thank you!

"Hey boy, you look mightly cute in them jeans" -Eddie Murphy.

See, here I'm fairly certain that you're just pulling his chain, but in case I'm wrong - Stuart makes a good point - which, I believe, is the same point you were trying to make in your posts (but failed miserably in the delivery og the first attempt) - Throwing your beliefs into the face of others is no way to get them to appreciate those beliefs.


No, you are calling me gay.

really? I mean, really?!


He gets it. He's too well spoken not to. Everyone called him a troll in this thread, so he's just acting the part. Fortunately, he isn't in the other threads I've seen him post in.

I believe that you are correct.


I'm not trolling. I'm bottom fishing... (yeah, yeah, I know I should pull anchor and get off your reef, right?)

OK. From now on I promise to only talk about things the "community" wants to talk about. No more irritating subjects and the like. I promise I won't even think of using verbiage. From now on I will just post pretty pictures...

God, I love Starbucks!!!

Now you're just being ridiculous. It's not what you say that is considered offensive but how you choose to say it. We're always open to considering different ideas, but if you come off with a tone that implies you disagree with the basic philosophies shared by members of this site.

[theGinsue]

I want to see gays open carry...in a parade.


Sorta puts a whole new face on the term "militant gays"; don't it?!

[edjobsman]

See, here I'm fairly certain that you're just pulling his chain, but in case I'm wrong - Stuart makes a good point - which, I believe, is the same point you were trying to make in your posts (but failed miserably in the delivery og the first attempt) - Throwing your beliefs into the face of others is no way to get them to appreciate those beliefs.



really? I mean, really?!



I believe that you are correct.



Now you're just being ridiculous. It's not what you say that is considered offensive but how you choose to say it. We're always open to considering different ideas, but if you come off with a tone that implies you disagree with the basic philosophies shared by members of this site.


All your points are understood and well taken.
My big problem is I haven't developed a very good filter yet. I just write and then send. Not the first time it's gotten me into trouble. No more diatribes for me for a while - too taxing and I am getting to old to do things that make my blood pressure go up too much.

Thanks.

[edjobsman]

I read your rebuttal and what comes to mind is this thought. "Just because you're gay, doesn't mean you should have a parade about it."

I agree that there is a difference between doing something, and doing something to purposely make a big deal about it.

Thank you for your input. I didn't mean to be disrespectful. You were trying to echo my sentiment and I totally ignored you. I got a little goofy today responding to responses. Sometimes I can be a little thick-headed. I know I gotta listen (read) more and talk (write) less. I am working on it.

[Bang]

[theGinsue]

No more diatribes for me for a while - too taxing and I am getting to old to do things that make my blood pressure go up too much.

Thanks.

Sounds like you and I have something in common after all![Coffee]

[theGinsue]

Sometimes I can be a little thick-headed. I know I gotta listen (read) more and talk (write) less. I am working on it.

[Bang]

Oh yeah. I think you'll fit right on in here (once we get those filters in place).

[theGinsue]

CHeck out this thread Ed - this will re-enforce your point:
http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21666

[GhostRider]

I have been told by quite a few of my neighbors and shop owners that they are glad that I carry sometimes concealed and others times open. They have never had a complaint about it, and I plan to keep it up until there is no reason to do so. There are two of us in my neighborhood that regularly carry

[Delfuego]

Ed,

Don't back down! Don't let anybody push you around. Not the leftys or the rightys. Your post was provocative, but isn't that a good thing? Gets people talking correct? People do not need to agree with you. Playing devil's advocate can be a good thing. I think it helps people to have to formulate and coherently communicate their opinions to counter your argument.

And a big + 1 for Smokey with an AK! If wish he was my neighborhood watch captain.