newracer
03-25-2010, 08:27
This was posted on another forum I visit. Long read but worth it. Timely with regards to theGinsue's thread.
An Imminent Threat?
"instant, overwhelming, and leaving no choice of means, and no moment for deliberation."
I was selected to serve as a juror on a trial in Boulder, it took 4 days.
The facts:
Boulder County Colorado, rural mountain area near Allenspark.
In April of 09, a census worker performing “enumerator” duties arrived at a cabin residence. A cabin located on a plot of private land with 4 other cabins. His job was to physically verify addresses for the upcoming 2010 census.
The census worker asked the resident what his address number was since it was not displayed anywhere. The resident refused to provide that information and instructed the census worker that he was trespassing and to leave the property. The census worker drove on to the other cabins in the area and had to drive back past this cabin on his way out. When he approached the cabin he could see the resident standing there with a “big black gun”. The census worker drove past this man and out of the area, stopping once or twice along the road , he completed a few more “map spots” and then (lacking cell phone service) found a business to use a phone and called 911 to report the incident telling the 911 operator that he was performing his census work when he saw a man waving a big black gun at him.
2 Boulder Sheriffs, a Larimer county Sheriff and his K9 partner responded to the address. They surrounded the house and watched for a couple hours. The defendant came outside (empty handed), asked what they were doing there, told them they were on private property and that they should leave. They arrested him at gunpoint.
The charge was “Felony Menacing”.
The question put to the jury: Is the accused guilty (beyond a reasonable doubt) of putting this worker in imminent threat of bodily injury or death?
Census worker’s side of the story:
I was driving along doing my job, I entered an area which was posted with two no trespassing signs and I stopped at a house which was not displaying a number and was taking a GPS reading when the accused came out of his house, and angrily told me I was trespassing on private property and that I should leave. I told him that I was a census worker and that by law he had to answer my questions. The accused again instructed me to leave and went inside his home. I then walked up on his porch and placed a paper in his door that had some census information on it. The defendant came back outside and repeated his angry words about me getting off this private property. I then drove to the next 3 cabins on the property, getting out once to “map spot” the house on my gps. As I came around the loop and headed back towards the defendants house I saw him standing there holding a “big black gun”. The defendant was obviously angry and was yelling something but my windows were closed and I could not hear him. I drove past, stopped once or twice, then continued on and took a few more map spot readings. After thinking about the situation, I found a local establishment and went inside to borrow a phone (cell phone service was not available). I called 911 and reported the incident. Not wanting to wait around for the Sheriff to arrive I left the area.
The defendant’s side of the story:
That morning I was sitting on my front step with my SKS rifle on my lap communing with nature. There were some 200 forest critters gathered around me like happens very often in the morning. All of a sudden the critters scattered and I looked down the road and saw a white Subaru approaching. It stopped in front of me and a fellow got out, pointed a suspicious device at me and asked if this was 206? I said “No.” He asked if this was 212? I again said “No.” He then asked, “Well what is the address here?” I told him it was none of his business and I didn’t have to tell him, not only that, but this is private property and you are trespassing! He told me he worked for the census and by law I had to talk to him. I then told him that he better break out his water board because I was not going to answer any of his questions and he needed to vacate immediately because he is on private property. He got in his car and proceeded further into the property. I sat there keeping an eye on him. He stopped at the first cabin, took out his mysterious device and began casing the cabin glaring back at me. He went on to the next cabin, did the same, then moved on to the third. I had to stand up when he went to the third cabin to see over the little rise so I could keep an eye on him. When he came back around towards me I was standing there with my SKS in my hands, I told him to leave. He stopped in front of me and glared at me, then moved on. He then stopped a ways down the road, I once again pointed and yelled at him to leave the area immediately.
Trial, March 2010:
12 jurors, 9 men, 3 women. The DA vs the court appointed defense attorney.
The Prosecution’s intent was to prove that this was an intended menacing event in that:
-The defendant knowingly and willingly attempted to threaten the census worker’s life by “brandishing” his assault weapon.
-The census worker was there legally within the rights of his position.
-The defendant knew he was a census worker and knew he was legally there performing his work.
-The defendant went into his house, grabbed his assault rifle and came back outside to threaten the census worker.
The defense attorney laid out his case, claiming the defendant was indeed sitting there with his SKS on his lap the whole time. He had it available due to all the bear activity in the area recently. And always sat there in the morning with his rifle in his lap for bear protection.
There are obvious inconstancies between the two stories. Mainly weather the defendant was sitting there when the census worker arrived or not. At one point the DA objected to hearsay by the defendant when the defendant was recalling a conversation between him and his dog about a bear. It was a nice point of humor during the case.
The trial started Monday immediately after jury selection, the SKS was presented to us by the DA very often during the proceedings. Testimony was heard following the opening arguments. The prosecutor put the census worker and arresting officer on the stand then rested. The defense attorney put a worker on the stand from a nearby establishment to speak about bear activity in the area. Then a weapons expert (a very cool older fellow with obvious gun experience). Next, a private investigator for the defense was examined on the stand. He provided a little entertainment when he began to whistle a tune while the defense attorney was going through some papers clearly heard over the court speaker system. The defense rested at the end of the day Tuesday. Wednesday morning the defense asked to reopen it’s case for another witness. It was allowed and the defendant took the stand. I later found out this was not going to happen but the defendant insisted vigorously, feeling that his side needed to be told. Once we heard his testimony the defense rested, again. The jury deliberated till 5:10, did a quick test vote and we figured we were not very close to a verdict so we adjourned until 9:00 Thursday morning. After 2 hours or so of deliberation, we found the defendant Not Guilty. Defining “Imminent threat” seemed to help us come to our verdict of not guilty.
Opinions:
It was a very interesting process and the first time I had ever served on a jury. I am actually pleased that I got to serve on this type of case. I firmly believe this fellow should not have been dragged into court for standing on his porch holding a weapon. He had every right to suspect a person showing up on his property in April of 09 claiming to be a census worker. His badge did not have a picture on it and he did not offer any means for the defendant to verify his authority. Until brought to my attention during the trial, I was unaware that a census worker had legal right to enter private property. I have been at gun point. While living in Cheyenne, a couple fellers broke into my house while my girlfriend and myself ran to the store. When we returned I heard her call out that someone was in the house, we both went to the bedroom where one of them was pointing my pistol at us telling us “don’t ****ing move”. She moved, so did I. She grabbed the phone off the wall in the hallway and ran straight into the bathroom locking the door behind her. I ran out the back door, stopped, then realized they would run out the front, I ran around to the front of the house in time to see them run down the road and hop in a car and take off. My point, that was an “imminent threat” to my person and I reacted how I reacted. This census worker, had he felt that he was in “imminent danger” would have reacted accordingly, not continued working for a period of time then calling the cops.
The census worker was very even tempered on the stand. Nothing phased him, he spoke clearly and evenly speaking very well and relaying his version seemingly with excellent recall. The defendant, a part time postal worker, spoke of his dog “talking to him” and also talked about all the forest critters that would come to him while he sat on his front step. 200 of them, birds sitting on his head and shoulder, petting the wild rabbits. I could easily have taken him for a real crackpot. And, I’m still not sure which story was the truth, plenty of embellishment on both sides I am sure. I did not hang my hat on their statements. I tried to think about the simple fact of weather it was legal for any person to be able to stand on his own property holding a gun (whether it be an assault rifle or not). I felt like it was a Boulder DA out to make an example of an assault weapon wielding individual. Assuming from the beginning that the defendant was innocent, the DA failed to prove to us “beyond any reasonable doubt” that he was guilty. Nor that the census worker was in feat of his life due to being in imminent danger of bodily harm.
I would go so far as to say, he should have been in fear and should have vacated the premises immediately when told to do so. Is it wrong for a person to defend his property by simply displaying a weapon?
The defendant said thank you to the jury numerous times, I hope this was one of those times when we were all correct, a message was sent to both parties, and the defendant is able to maintain his composure while holding that rifle during any of future interactions as he did on this occasion.
I believe we (the jury) did our duty and justice was served. Regardless of my belief that the defendant had every right to stand on his own porch holding a gun, I could have found him guilty if he had broken a law, which he clearly did not.
An Imminent Threat?
"instant, overwhelming, and leaving no choice of means, and no moment for deliberation."
I was selected to serve as a juror on a trial in Boulder, it took 4 days.
The facts:
Boulder County Colorado, rural mountain area near Allenspark.
In April of 09, a census worker performing “enumerator” duties arrived at a cabin residence. A cabin located on a plot of private land with 4 other cabins. His job was to physically verify addresses for the upcoming 2010 census.
The census worker asked the resident what his address number was since it was not displayed anywhere. The resident refused to provide that information and instructed the census worker that he was trespassing and to leave the property. The census worker drove on to the other cabins in the area and had to drive back past this cabin on his way out. When he approached the cabin he could see the resident standing there with a “big black gun”. The census worker drove past this man and out of the area, stopping once or twice along the road , he completed a few more “map spots” and then (lacking cell phone service) found a business to use a phone and called 911 to report the incident telling the 911 operator that he was performing his census work when he saw a man waving a big black gun at him.
2 Boulder Sheriffs, a Larimer county Sheriff and his K9 partner responded to the address. They surrounded the house and watched for a couple hours. The defendant came outside (empty handed), asked what they were doing there, told them they were on private property and that they should leave. They arrested him at gunpoint.
The charge was “Felony Menacing”.
The question put to the jury: Is the accused guilty (beyond a reasonable doubt) of putting this worker in imminent threat of bodily injury or death?
Census worker’s side of the story:
I was driving along doing my job, I entered an area which was posted with two no trespassing signs and I stopped at a house which was not displaying a number and was taking a GPS reading when the accused came out of his house, and angrily told me I was trespassing on private property and that I should leave. I told him that I was a census worker and that by law he had to answer my questions. The accused again instructed me to leave and went inside his home. I then walked up on his porch and placed a paper in his door that had some census information on it. The defendant came back outside and repeated his angry words about me getting off this private property. I then drove to the next 3 cabins on the property, getting out once to “map spot” the house on my gps. As I came around the loop and headed back towards the defendants house I saw him standing there holding a “big black gun”. The defendant was obviously angry and was yelling something but my windows were closed and I could not hear him. I drove past, stopped once or twice, then continued on and took a few more map spot readings. After thinking about the situation, I found a local establishment and went inside to borrow a phone (cell phone service was not available). I called 911 and reported the incident. Not wanting to wait around for the Sheriff to arrive I left the area.
The defendant’s side of the story:
That morning I was sitting on my front step with my SKS rifle on my lap communing with nature. There were some 200 forest critters gathered around me like happens very often in the morning. All of a sudden the critters scattered and I looked down the road and saw a white Subaru approaching. It stopped in front of me and a fellow got out, pointed a suspicious device at me and asked if this was 206? I said “No.” He asked if this was 212? I again said “No.” He then asked, “Well what is the address here?” I told him it was none of his business and I didn’t have to tell him, not only that, but this is private property and you are trespassing! He told me he worked for the census and by law I had to talk to him. I then told him that he better break out his water board because I was not going to answer any of his questions and he needed to vacate immediately because he is on private property. He got in his car and proceeded further into the property. I sat there keeping an eye on him. He stopped at the first cabin, took out his mysterious device and began casing the cabin glaring back at me. He went on to the next cabin, did the same, then moved on to the third. I had to stand up when he went to the third cabin to see over the little rise so I could keep an eye on him. When he came back around towards me I was standing there with my SKS in my hands, I told him to leave. He stopped in front of me and glared at me, then moved on. He then stopped a ways down the road, I once again pointed and yelled at him to leave the area immediately.
Trial, March 2010:
12 jurors, 9 men, 3 women. The DA vs the court appointed defense attorney.
The Prosecution’s intent was to prove that this was an intended menacing event in that:
-The defendant knowingly and willingly attempted to threaten the census worker’s life by “brandishing” his assault weapon.
-The census worker was there legally within the rights of his position.
-The defendant knew he was a census worker and knew he was legally there performing his work.
-The defendant went into his house, grabbed his assault rifle and came back outside to threaten the census worker.
The defense attorney laid out his case, claiming the defendant was indeed sitting there with his SKS on his lap the whole time. He had it available due to all the bear activity in the area recently. And always sat there in the morning with his rifle in his lap for bear protection.
There are obvious inconstancies between the two stories. Mainly weather the defendant was sitting there when the census worker arrived or not. At one point the DA objected to hearsay by the defendant when the defendant was recalling a conversation between him and his dog about a bear. It was a nice point of humor during the case.
The trial started Monday immediately after jury selection, the SKS was presented to us by the DA very often during the proceedings. Testimony was heard following the opening arguments. The prosecutor put the census worker and arresting officer on the stand then rested. The defense attorney put a worker on the stand from a nearby establishment to speak about bear activity in the area. Then a weapons expert (a very cool older fellow with obvious gun experience). Next, a private investigator for the defense was examined on the stand. He provided a little entertainment when he began to whistle a tune while the defense attorney was going through some papers clearly heard over the court speaker system. The defense rested at the end of the day Tuesday. Wednesday morning the defense asked to reopen it’s case for another witness. It was allowed and the defendant took the stand. I later found out this was not going to happen but the defendant insisted vigorously, feeling that his side needed to be told. Once we heard his testimony the defense rested, again. The jury deliberated till 5:10, did a quick test vote and we figured we were not very close to a verdict so we adjourned until 9:00 Thursday morning. After 2 hours or so of deliberation, we found the defendant Not Guilty. Defining “Imminent threat” seemed to help us come to our verdict of not guilty.
Opinions:
It was a very interesting process and the first time I had ever served on a jury. I am actually pleased that I got to serve on this type of case. I firmly believe this fellow should not have been dragged into court for standing on his porch holding a weapon. He had every right to suspect a person showing up on his property in April of 09 claiming to be a census worker. His badge did not have a picture on it and he did not offer any means for the defendant to verify his authority. Until brought to my attention during the trial, I was unaware that a census worker had legal right to enter private property. I have been at gun point. While living in Cheyenne, a couple fellers broke into my house while my girlfriend and myself ran to the store. When we returned I heard her call out that someone was in the house, we both went to the bedroom where one of them was pointing my pistol at us telling us “don’t ****ing move”. She moved, so did I. She grabbed the phone off the wall in the hallway and ran straight into the bathroom locking the door behind her. I ran out the back door, stopped, then realized they would run out the front, I ran around to the front of the house in time to see them run down the road and hop in a car and take off. My point, that was an “imminent threat” to my person and I reacted how I reacted. This census worker, had he felt that he was in “imminent danger” would have reacted accordingly, not continued working for a period of time then calling the cops.
The census worker was very even tempered on the stand. Nothing phased him, he spoke clearly and evenly speaking very well and relaying his version seemingly with excellent recall. The defendant, a part time postal worker, spoke of his dog “talking to him” and also talked about all the forest critters that would come to him while he sat on his front step. 200 of them, birds sitting on his head and shoulder, petting the wild rabbits. I could easily have taken him for a real crackpot. And, I’m still not sure which story was the truth, plenty of embellishment on both sides I am sure. I did not hang my hat on their statements. I tried to think about the simple fact of weather it was legal for any person to be able to stand on his own property holding a gun (whether it be an assault rifle or not). I felt like it was a Boulder DA out to make an example of an assault weapon wielding individual. Assuming from the beginning that the defendant was innocent, the DA failed to prove to us “beyond any reasonable doubt” that he was guilty. Nor that the census worker was in feat of his life due to being in imminent danger of bodily harm.
I would go so far as to say, he should have been in fear and should have vacated the premises immediately when told to do so. Is it wrong for a person to defend his property by simply displaying a weapon?
The defendant said thank you to the jury numerous times, I hope this was one of those times when we were all correct, a message was sent to both parties, and the defendant is able to maintain his composure while holding that rifle during any of future interactions as he did on this occasion.
I believe we (the jury) did our duty and justice was served. Regardless of my belief that the defendant had every right to stand on his own porch holding a gun, I could have found him guilty if he had broken a law, which he clearly did not.