NFA experts: IS this shotgun a SBS?

[Cochese]

I have a 1960's vintage Westernfield M550A, aka Mossberg 500. It was put into service at a police department after having its 24" turkey barrel cut down, presumably by a smith, since the cut is clean appears to function as it should.

My problem is its size. I have some pictures to explain my ramblings. When the gun is assembled, measuring from the end of the receiver to the end of the barrel, it is 17.5"...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_leflAGmZllI/S6zb8mROLuI/AAAAAAAABOM/hUHDYBxDM0A/s800/2010-03-26%2010.04.39.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_leflAGmZllI/S6zb8dUVtoI/AAAAAAAABOI/1fTpkl8cO_w/s800/2010-03-26%2010.04.52.jpg

You can see the wear line I am measuring from.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_leflAGmZllI/S6zb81nYAlI/AAAAAAAABOU/j4Qm6ren4lY/s800/2010-03-26%2010.02.29.jpg

This is the same measuring line with the barrel removed:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_leflAGmZllI/S6zb832fQTI/AAAAAAAABOQ/xGklMjqadCI/s800/2010-03-26%2010.02.50.jpg

This is what the receiver side of the barrel looks like:

It has a short and long side.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_leflAGmZllI/S5Gz0apDhZI/AAAAAAAABLI/WRVVJX9Ehoo/s800/2010-03-04%2023.35.04.jpg

Measuring from the long side to the end of the barrel, uninstalled, it is 19.5"

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_leflAGmZllI/S6zb9J0QVFI/AAAAAAAABOY/ndCeWypLLQM/s800/2010-03-26%2010.01.45.jpg

From the "short" side of the receiver end to the barrel end it is 18.5"

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_leflAGmZllI/S6zcUkUF0BI/AAAAAAAABOo/SdwLWb1QPOc/s800/2010-03-26%2010.00.59.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_leflAGmZllI/S6zcVaxTwlI/AAAAAAAABOs/NNO9rSaDkeY/s800/2010-03-26%2010.00.42.jpg

My question is:

Which is the legal way to determine the barrel length?

Like this, at 18.5"

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_leflAGmZllI/S6zcVaxTwlI/AAAAAAAABOs/NNO9rSaDkeY/s800/2010-03-26%2010.00.42.jpg

Or from the end of the receiver where the barrel is exposed as indicated by the wear ring on the barrel:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_leflAGmZllI/S6zb81nYAlI/AAAAAAAABOU/j4Qm6ren4lY/s800/2010-03-26%2010.02.29.jpg

17.5"


http://lh5.ggpht.com/_leflAGmZllI/S6zb8mROLuI/AAAAAAAABOM/hUHDYBxDM0A/s800/2010-03-26%2010.04.39.jpg

[Irving]

That's a great question and I'm interested to hear the answer.

[SA Friday]

If I remember correctly, there's actually two measurements for a SBS; one for the barrel and one for the overall length. They both have to be in compliance.

It's a good question though. I have no idea on the exact locations for the measurements.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Under the National Firearms Act (NFA) it is illegal for a private citizen to possess a sawed-off modern smokeless powder shotgun (a barrel length less than 18 in. or 46 cm and an overall length less than 26 inches) without a tax-stamped permit from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which requires a background check and a $200.00 fee for every transfer

Yours seems to be shorter.

[Not_A_Llama]

Drop a dowel down the bore with the bolt forward. Make a mark on the dowel at the muzzle.

IIRC, that's the official way.

Shotgun also has to be 26" overall.

This post not to be construed as legal advice.

[The Extractor]

that is stupid, why would legal shotguns and rifle bbl length
requirements be 2 inches different ?

[Jai]

You measured from the right place. 26 over all, 18 barrel, if there is a flash suppresor or compensator that is hand removable you take that off for the messurement.

[Irving]

It's the BATFE, that's why.

[The Extractor]

that was kind of a rhetorical question....

[roberth]

Drop a dowel down the bore with the bolt forward. Make a mark on the dowel at the muzzle.

IIRC, that's the official way.

Shotgun also has to be 26" overall.

This post not to be construed as legal advice.

IIRC this is what I was told as well.

These are stupid rules that only apply to law abiding citizens. I would like to see the GCA 1934, 1968, and 1986 repealed and start punishing criminals.

[rhineoshott]

Drop a dowel down the bore with the bolt forward. Make a mark on the dowel at the muzzle.

IIRC, that's the official way.

Shotgun also has to be 26" overall.

This post not to be construed as legal advice.

What about if you have a rotating bolt, like a Benelli Nova? That skews the measurement.

[Cochese]

Just a hair over 18"

Thanks folks!

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_leflAGmZllI/S6z19LGE-cI/AAAAAAAABO0/6Mr8W6LHCIo/s800/2010-03-26%2011.58.01.jpg

[Irving]

I'd personally still be careful where I bring that one.

[Cochese]

I'd personally still be careful where I bring that one.

And why is that?

[Cochese]

FYI, this is a home defense shotgun only.

I am a police officer and have an 870 and AR-15s available at work.

[Irving]

Just personally wouldn't want to deal with people being nosy and bothering me about something that is legal, but they are solid enough on the law to know better or not.

I suppose it'd be easy enough to explain where to take the measurement from. At the same time, with enough 18.5" barrel guns out there, maybe no one will even notice anyway. That wasn't supposed to be legal advice at all by the way.

[Cochese]

Just personally wouldn't want to deal with people being nosy and bothering me about something that is legal, but they are solid enough on the law to know better or not.

I suppose it'd be easy enough to explain where to take the measurement from. At the same time, with enough 18.5" barrel guns out there, maybe no one will even notice anyway. That wasn't supposed to be legal advice at all by the way.

The only folks that will ever question the length of the barrel will be sponging some asshole off my hardwood floors. :D

And don't worry, I don't look for legal advice on the internet. I just wantedd someoneto refresh my memory on the official way to measure as I haven't deal with C3 stuff in a few years.

Thanks all!

[sniper7]

you are fine with that. if you look at a spikes tactical dedicated .22 AR upper the barrel goes in 2 inches into the receiver and it makes it look like a 14.5in .223 upper. even on the short side your barrel goes in far enough.

nothing to worry about.

i am however, not a lawyer![Beer]

[idave]

you are fine with that. if you look at a spikes tactical dedicated AR upper the barrel goes in 2 inches into the receiver and it makes it look like a 14.5in .223 upper. even on the short side your barrel goes in far enough.

nothing to worry about.

i am however, not a lawyer![Beer]I thought that was their dedicated .22 upper

[Not_A_Llama]

What about if you have a rotating bolt, like a Benelli Nova? That skews the measurement.

Does it? I don't know the Benelli's specific design, but a rotating bolt's face still typically has a constant setback from the chamber because of the constraints of headspacing. If it looks like an AR or an AK's bolt, there isn't any variation.

[sniper7]

I thought that was their dedicated .22 upper


yeah it is, I guess I forgot to put the .22 in there!

[sniper7]

I thought that was their dedicated .22 upper


okay I got it fixed now!

I was sure I typed it out, but then I re-worded it and forgot it![Bang]