selling

[Nobama2012]

Hello All, definitely not new to shooting or firearms, but I have a question on what the law is when it comes to selling a firearm, I want to sell some of my personal firearms but the last thing I want is someone buying it and using it to break the law or hurt someone intentionally, can you guys or gals give me any pointers on this subject, thanks again all.

[ChunkyMonkey]

http://www.rmgo.org/faq/Gun%201-Pager.wpd.pdf

from RMGO

[4gunfun]

Hi Obama2012, [ROFL1]

I like your screen name (really). If you are selling face to face you have to sell it to a colorado resident 18 years old or older is about the only legal restrictions. I suppose you can not sell to a known felon. If you are selling it out of state you have to ship it to a FFL dealer. I would just keep a log book with the serial #'s and who you sold it to. You could go to a ffl dealer and pay him to do a transfer. That would get you off the hook for the gun. But you would scare most of your prospective buyers away.

4Gunfun

[theGinsue]

I'm going to give you the information as *I* understand it. Please note that I am not a lawyer or expert in CO law pertaining to the sale or transfer of firearms.

First thing you need to know is the MINIMUM rules for a face-to-face (FTF) sale among non-FFL licensees.
- The buyer must be at least 18 years old for long guns (rifles/shotguns) and 21 years of age for handguns.
- The buyer must be a resident of the state of CO
- The seller must have no reason to believe that the buyer is prohibited from purchasing/owning/possessing a firearm.

Now, as the seller, you have the option of adding to the minimum requirements. You need to be aware that for every requirement you add over and above what is required will significantly decrease the potential buyers because a lot of folks (myself included) don't wish to deal with the extras requirements. A couple of those extra requirements that we see from time-to-time are:
- The seller requesting to see or obtain a copy of the buyers CO Drivers License.
- The seller creating a written and buyer-signed Bill of Sale (BoS).

PLEASE NOTE: Any time you have a firearm (or any other item for that matter) for sale or trade you MUST, at the time of posting the item(s) for sale/trade, identify the terms of transfer that you require. DO NOT blind-side a potential buyer 1/2 way through the process or even at the agreed upon time of transfer. If you want something above and beyond what is required by law, you need to let prospective buyers know this at the start of the process so they will know if it is worth their effort to pursue. Failure to abide by this will certainly guarantee that you will incur the wrath of most members of this site!

[Graves]

Tom nailed it [Beer]

[Nobama2012]

Perfect, I appreciate all the answers especially Ginsue's in depth answer, now one more question if something does happen and I followed all the rules can I be held responsible? Has there ever been a case like that? I don't mean to be overly paranoid, just curious, thanks again. [Metal]

[newracer]

A private seller can sell a handgun to anyone 18 and over, not 21.

[theGinsue]

A private seller can sell a handgun to anyone 18 and over, not 21.

You're absolutely right. I got so used to the rules for buying from an FFL.
Thanks for catching that!


Perfect, I appreciate all the answers especially Ginsue's in depth answer, now one more question if something does happen and I followed all the rules can I be held responsible? Has there ever been a case like that? I don't mean to be overly paranoid, just curious, thanks again. [Metal]

Keep in mind that you can always be charged for just about anything. I've never heard of anyone facing more than just a bit of inconvenience if they followed the rules.

Now, in regards to the "in depth answer" - I'm notorious for being a bit verbose (long-winded). It's the Irish "gift of gab" curse!

[Nobama2012]

Right on Guys, I appreciate it thanks Ginsue, anyone interested in a bad ass shotgun? Will be up shortly

[4gunfun]

FTF no paperwork right?

[pickenup]

Yup, as a "private party" you can sell ANY gun to anyone 18 and over. Handgun or rifle.

And as theGinsue said, any paperwork will stop a sale with many of us.

I PM's someone selling something, and asked if he required any paperwork, since he DID NOT list it in his ad. He said he did. Stopped the negotiations right then and there for me. He should of had his requirements in his ad.

Can I pass a background check. Yup. Have before.
Will I, or involve any paperwork for a "private sale"? Nope, no more.
My loss, but I can be stubborn that way.

[theGinsue]

I PM's someone selling something, and asked if he required any paperwork, since he DID NOT list it in his ad. He said he did. Stopped the negotiations right then and there for me. He should of had his requirements in his ad.

I seem to recall someone on this site who, about a year ago, arrived at the predetermined time/place for a sale when the seller revealed his paperwork requirements. The buyer had to drive some distance to get to the location for the purchase and left quite angry without buying anything.



Can I pass a background check. Yup. Have before.
Will I, or involve any paperwork for a "private sale"? Nope, no more.
My loss, but I can be stubborn that way.

+1 I'm exactly the same way.

[sniper_tim]

Totally agreed, when selling/buying private party, don't expect to show or prove anything, except age (18+ for any firearm). HOWEVER, if I'm selling and you look/seem wrong for the sale, i'll walk and you get nothing, even if you have double asking price (ie: you walk up and mention you just got that teardrop tat in prison, etc). It's within my right (despite how far you have driven). Finally, i've never heard of anyone actually being able to prove/sue/win case against someone who sold firearm to someone who commited crime (doesn't mean it hasn't happened). However, you can sue anyone for anything! If you felt comfortable with the sale and it was within the law, why should you worrry?

cheers,
Tim

[Nobama2012]

Thats why I love this site, I really do appreciate all the info, have my shotgun up now, hope it sells, I stated my requirements in the add, honest and up front, thanks again. Tim, sweet SOD!

[Jumpstart]

Yup, as a "private party" you can sell ANY gun to anyone 18 and over. Handgun or rifle.

And as theGinsue said, any paperwork will stop a sale with many of us.

I PM's someone selling something, and asked if he required any paperwork, since he DID NOT list it in his ad. He said he did. Stopped the negotiations right then and there for me. He should of had his requirements in his ad.

Can I pass a background check. Yup. Have before.
Will I, or involve any paperwork for a "private sale"? Nope, no more.
My loss, but I can be stubborn that way.

Paperwork stops the sale here. I too was in a similar situation here were lo and behold, after a huge wast of my time dude springs it on me that he wants a copy of my DL, I say no. Bill of sale. No, Take a look at my CCW. Don't have one, don't want one. I'd rather change the laws like Alaska, Az(trying to currently)and Vermont to decriminalize concealed.
I also work at a job that is CBI background checked. I just don't want to cultivate that mentality of citizens registering citizens to buy sporting goods from each other. I want to go the other way and cultivate the absurdity of the government registering guns. The vast majority of them anyway. (Really all of them) I kinda like the 'will not be infringed" part of the 2nd. Paper work is an infringement.

[DD977GM2]

DO NOT use a bill of sale. This is a form of socialism. NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sniper7]

looks like everything has been covered.

just use good judgement when you sell to someone, pretty much everyone on here is good to go (at least from all the guys I have met).

using a bill of sale is a choice but I frown upon it, it isn't required and isn't the law.

[Nobama2012]

Yep all info is greatly appreciated, yeah I dont think I would do a bill of sale, just want to see a CO ID so I know the buyer resides in CO. Now one of you guys needs to buy my shotgun, so I can build up my AK a little, lol. Thanks again guys. [Coffee]

[Irving]

I would just keep a log book with the serial #'s and who you sold it to.
4Gunfun


Sounds like a great way for a gun-grabbing attorney to use against you saying you are an unlicensed FFL.



If you sell a gun to a guy, and he goes out and kills someone with it, what exactly do you think you'd be charged with? Were you at the crime scene? Did you know the victim? Are you in any way related to the crime at all? It's possible that you could get dragged into the investigation, but what are the chances they are going to be able to stick anything on you when you followed the letter of the law?

[sniper7]

Yeah I have to agree keeping a record makes you look like a dealer.

[Nobama2012]

True not much someone can do to you as long as you follow the law, I just want to make sure, being this would be the first time I sold a firearm, thats if it sells. Just want to have all my bases covered.

[theGinsue]

Wise choice. That's why it never hurts to ask - except the replies will keep coming forever![ROFL1]

[Survivalism]

Hey guys, i read this thread awhile ago and i learned that i am actually able to own a pistol legally ( im 19 ), i just cannot buy directly from a FFL.

Are their any laws that prohibit my mom from purchasing one from a FFL and then giving it to me as a gift or selling it to me?

If someone knows or can point me in the correct direction i would really appreciate it.. thanks!

[ronaldrwl]

Hey guys, i read this thread awhile ago and i learned that i am actually able to own a pistol legally ( im 19 ), i just cannot buy directly from a FFL.

Are their any laws that prohibit my mom from purchasing one from a FFL and then giving it to me as a gift or selling it to me?

If someone knows or can point me in the correct direction i would really appreciate it.. thanks!

I know from experience that you have to state that you are not buying the gun for anyone else. It's a box you check on the background check form.

[Survivalism]

I know from experience that you have to state that you are not buying the gun for anyone else. It's a box you check on the background check form.

Thanks for taking the time to post a response, i really appreciate it.

I guess my question has changed... is their a way for my mom to legally give / sell me a handgun that was recently purchased from a website and shipped to us through a FFL.

[Irving]

If you still live at home, then she can just buy the gun for herself. When you move out, buy it from her. You aren't supposed to buy a gun for someone else, but I can't see how it is much of an issue if you are legal to own/buy a gun.

[jason303]

I want to take the opportunity and state a hypothetical situation. If I were to have ever sold anyone anything and had a bill of sale, statement of transaction, etc. in a prior mindset of ignorance, then I would have irretrievably lost such a record. This is hypothetical because I have never sold anything, but if you imagined yourself buying anything from me, that's hypothetically what would have happened.

[jason303]

Wasn't it G Gordon Liddy who said something to the effect of, "As a convicted felon, I am unable to legally own a firearm but Mrs. Liddy has a nice collection of firearms, some of which she keeps in my nightstand."?

[funkfool]

I want to take the opportunity and state a hypothetical situation. If I were to have ever sold anyone anything and had a bill of sale, statement of transaction, etc. in a prior mindset of ignorance, then I would have irretrievably lost such a record. This is hypothetical because I have never sold anything, but if you imagined yourself buying anything from me, that's hypothetically what would have happened.
Is 'prior mindset of ignorance' a medical condition... 'cause I may already have it... hypothetically...
http://rlv.zcache.com/imagine_a_world_without_hypothetical_situations_ts hirt-p235091891107791399t5tr_400.jpg

[theGinsue]

Someone else on this site with a whole lot more knowledge on this subject should either tell me to shut up and color, or confirm that I'm on to something here, but...

It was my understanding that there was some sort of "gifting" option amongst family members.

flame on.

[Great-Kazoo]

Someone else on this site with a whole lot more knowledge on this subject should either tell me to shut up and color, or confirm that I'm on to something here, but...

It was my understanding that there was some sort of "gifting" option amongst family members.

flame on.

yes you can gift someone in the family a firearm. The issue is he stated his mom was going to buy it then ship it to him?? that means either they are sending it w/out an ffl transfer (major issue) now that they owned up to it on line. OR she will ship it to a ffl which puts them back to square 1 as a ffl sale and or transfer requires the reciepent be 21

[Survivalism]

yes you can gift someone in the family a firearm. The issue is he stated his mom was going to buy it then ship it to him?? that means either they are sending it w/out an ffl transfer (major issue) now that they owned up to it on line. OR she will ship it to a ffl which puts them back to square 1 as a ffl sale and or transfer requires the reciepent be 21

Sorry you are confused, i did not do a good job of explaining it.

I still live at home, I am looking at pistols on summitgunbroker, budsgunshop, etc. and was planning on having my mom purchase it from them, they will ship it to our FFL and then she will pick it up from them.

From their i was wondering how to legally transfer possession of the gun to me.

EDIT: Big thanks to everyone who has posted so far, great community here.. cant wait to meet up with some of you guys at the shoots.

EDIT2: Just wanted to make sure their is nothing special we need to do when gifting the gun to me right?

[jason303]

Only in a well-crafted criminal defense. LOL on the shirt BTW.



Is 'prior mindset of ignorance' a medical condition... 'cause I may already have it... hypothetically...
http://rlv.zcache.com/imagine_a_world_without_hypothetical_situations_ts hirt-p235091891107791399t5tr_400.jpg