View Full Version : I'm proud of my truck
my brother in law has a Subaru and it broke down today...maybe a timing belt or the ignition. said he was driving on the highway and it just instantly died, wouldn't restart. I thought it might be the ignition and my buddy thought maybe the timing belt. I didn't know much about Subaru engines but it is the little 4 cylinder so i guess that has a belt and not a chain.
anyways, we got the tow trailer, hooked it up to my truck and my truck did a beautiful job towing!
now if anyone knows of a good and fair priced mechanic let me know. he has a friend that is looking at it and might be able to do the job, but just in case, shoot me the info.
also, if anyone has an idea as to what it might be, let me know as well! free trouble shooting is nice!
also: his lights worked fine, the engine still cranked over, no knocking when it was cranking.
anyone know if Subaru engines are like hondas where there could be some serious valve/engine issues when the timing belt breaks? I haven't started to look yet, you guys are first to be asked!
ronaldrwl
03-31-2010, 20:51
Hmm, if a timing belt goes it take your engine with it
gnihcraes
03-31-2010, 20:55
what year subaru? timing belt doesn't always take out the engine, depends on engine design... some are interference and some are not...
what year subaru? timing belt doesn't always take out the engine, depends on engine design... some are interference and some are not...
I'm not sure what year it is, i'll ask him and let you know. I wanted to find out if it was interference or not as well.
it is a 1999, not sure of the engine size...it is a 4cyl.
Hmm, if a timing belt goes it take your engine with it
Some folks luck out. I'm guessing since it's a 99 it has an EJ series engine (2.2l) which is an interference engine which means bent valves. If it's an RS it have a 2.5, either way same deal.
looks like it is the 2.5 litre engine, but not sure, he just told me it is 149.9 cubic inch
I helped a friend change the timing belt on a 2000 2.5 and it was actually really easy / accessible. More than most cars.
I am not sure if it is the timing belt though... dunno.... haven't put much thought into it.
gnihcraes
03-31-2010, 21:51
just have to start with the basics... engine free or stuck, spark, fuel, compression etc...
just have to start with the basics... engine free or stuck, spark, fuel, compression etc...
exactly.
90% of motors use a timing belt
90% of motors are interface
My car is the only modern car I even know of that doesn't have a timing belt.
I know everyone is thinking this so I'll go ahead and ask:
If the engine doesn't work out.....can we shoot it?!
90% of motors are interface
Is it just getting too late for my brain or is this a question many are having....
What do you mean 'are interface'?
and out of curiosity, what do you drive?
I know everyone is thinking this so I'll go ahead and ask:
If the engine doesn't work out.....can we shoot it?!
I doubt he would want that! not sure what a new motor would cost for the thing. he is only a couple months from having it paid off too[Bang]
Don't know until you ask!
90% of motors use a timing belt
90% of motors are interface
My car is the only modern car I even know of that doesn't have a timing belt.
interference I think is what you meant!
I think some of the new hondas use chains...can't remember if it is the 6 or 4 cyl.
what car do you have that doesn't use a timing belt and does it use a chain?
I've been told my 93 camry uses a chain not a belt.
wrestler034
03-31-2010, 22:27
Neither of my cars are timing belts. 2006 Nissan Frontier and a 2003 Honda Accord 4 cyl.
I've got a 99 Subaru with the 2.5L. I had to have the serpentine belt replaced. I had the work done for me though, I don't know enough to do it myself.
Hope it gets sorted, they're good cars.
H.
wrestler034
03-31-2010, 22:30
Serpentine and timing belts are two different animals. Timing belt is "internal" and the serpentine belt is the one you see when the hood is up.
I did mean interference.
I don't think any Hondas use chains, but I've been out of the Honda scene for a few years now.
I had a 1990 Honda Accord that I tried to get people to chip in to shoot at once, no one wanted to pay to shoot it.
I drive a 1999 Infiniti G20t. Other Nissans made around that same time also used chains.
i am not sure if this will help any since the info is limited... but you may see if you can read the DTC codes from the car and see if it threw any that may give you a hint or direction to go to before you start with randomly trying the basics. Autozone will read the codes for free with their reader but you'd have to get the car to one.
Autozone can't help you with a broken timing belt.
Your best bet is a Subaru or Import specialist (not necessarily a speed shop). The block should be fine, you should only have to rebuild the head at most. However, since that motor is a boxer style motor, there are two heads (like a V motor).
Autozone can't help you with a broken timing belt.
Your best bet is a Subaru or Import specialist (not necessarily a speed shop). The block should be fine, you should only have to rebuild the head at most. However, since that motor is a boxer style motor, there are two heads (like a V motor).
I didn't say they would help you with a timing belt. The way I read the orig post was that someone thought it was the belt or ignition but he wasn't sure... wanted other ideas. Thus, my idea.
:P
Yeah, I saw that the second time around.
Dinosdeuce
03-31-2010, 22:51
Is it just getting too late for my brain or is this a question many are having....
What do you mean 'are interface'?
and out of curiosity, what do you drive?
When the timing belt breaks the top end (valve train) stops. What ever postion the valves are at that time, open or closed, are where they are. The bottom end, pistons will continue to move as the tranny will continue to rotate the crank through inertia. This slams the pistons into the valves. Some motors have clearance in them to avoid bent valves and/or cracked pistons.
My '99 Nissan has a timing chain, wifes '02 Honda Accord EX (v6) has a timing belt.
Do not drive any motor past what the manufacture recommends for replacing the belt. Some people think the manufacture just wants your hard earned money. For me it is not worth the gamble.
Goodluck with your repair.
wrestler034
03-31-2010, 22:53
I did mean interference.
I don't think any Hondas use chains, but I've been out of the Honda scene for a few years now.
I had a 1990 Honda Accord that I tried to get people to chip in to shoot at once, no one wanted to pay to shoot it.
I drive a 1999 Infiniti G20t. Other Nissans made around that same time also used chains.
Most Hondas are belts but the 4cyl 03-08 accords are chains.
Yup, my brain is too tired.... I couldn't think beyond interference in the electrical radio wave type.... lol....
Yes I completely understand now and knew this before, just not in these terms.
[Pepsi]
i am not sure if this will help any since the info is limited... but you may see if you can read the DTC codes from the car and see if it threw any that may give you a hint or direction to go to before you start with randomly trying the basics. Autozone will read the codes for free with their reader but you'd have to get the car to one.
yeah I will tell him to go over there and borrow one. the car is at his house immobile at this time.
he did say the check engine light came on, so I am sure the computer kicked a code for the scanner to read.
he did say the check engine light came on,.
THis is oddly, great news.... with any luck it will take a lot of the self diagnosis off the table.
When the timing belt breaks the top end (valve train) stops. What ever postion the valves are at that time, open or closed, are where they are. The bottom end, pistons will continue to move as the tranny will continue to rotate the crank through inertia. This slams the pistons into the valves. Some motors have clearance in them to avoid bent valves and/or cracked pistons.
My '99 Nissan has a timing chain, wifes '02 Honda Accord EX (v6) has a timing belt.
Do not drive any motor past what the manufacture recommends for replacing the belt. Some people think the manufacture just wants your hard earned money. For me it is not worth the gamble.
Goodluck with your repair.
I guess he said he took it in a few weeks ago for some oil leaking that was getting on the spark plugs so a guy cleaned them up for him, but I don't think he had any seals or gaskets replaced. the Shop also said he needed to get the timing belt done, but he said he didn't have the money at the time...so it may have bit him.
but then again, it could just be some other subsequent code thrown by the stall which may or may not reveal the source.
Most Hondas are belts but the 4cyl 03-08 accords are chains.
that is what I was thinking of. I knew they went to chains on one of their motors. too bad they all don't go to chains, they last a hell of a lot longer and don't destroy the motor nearly as easy.
but then again, it could just be some other subsequent code thrown by the stall which may or may not reveal the source.
yeah that is possible as well. he said when it died he looked down and the check engine light was on...so who knows what it really is.
his buddy is coming this week to look.
I'll tell him to head to autozone tomorrow and get a scanner so he can read the code the computer spit out and see if it might have any relevance to the issue.
Yeah, I never understood why anyone would want to use a belt over a chain.
Not_A_Llama
04-01-2010, 00:40
I don't think any Hondas use chains, but I've been out of the Honda scene for a few years now.
For ref, my Acura TSX (4 cyl) has a chain.
Lot more cars are coming out with chains now, but they're usually a little loud, have a bit more friction loss, and if you're neglectful of your oil changes, the plastic guides grind down, and the whole chain system fails spectacularly.
jerrymrc
04-01-2010, 05:18
Yeah, I never understood why anyone would want to use a belt over a chain.
Belts have been around since the 50's. It was not until the 60's that they became a practical thing. If replaced in a timely manner they are very reliable and trouble free.
Chains are not always better or longer lived. Belt do not use the HP that chains do and solve some very real engineering problems.
Name the first American car engine to use a timing belt.;)
THis is oddly, great news.... with any luck it will take a lot of the self diagnosis off the table.
hopefully...still no word from him yet. hopefully he goes over to autozone today
Yeah, my car hasn't been taken care of well and probably has guide problems. I definitely have the rattle when I first start it.
GreenScoutII
04-01-2010, 10:08
that is what I was thinking of. I knew they went to chains on one of their motors. too bad they all don't go to chains, they last a hell of a lot longer and don't destroy the motor nearly as easy.
International was the only company I know of who ever got valve train control right. They didn't use a belt or a chain, they used timing gears.
A quick and relatively easy way to tell if the timing belt snapped is to run a compression test. I'm pretty sure Auto Zone will rent you a compression test set up. Pull a plug, Install the adapter and guage, crank the engine and observe the result and move to the next cylinder.
Usually if you have a busted timing belt you'll have one or more cylanders which will not develop any pressure at all.
In my experience, timing belts are not technically difficult, but disassembling much of the car to gain access can sure suck.
I never did one on a Subaru so I don't know the specifics, but I suspect its probably a sewing machine. Ugh....
Yeah, my car hasn't been taken care of well and probably has guide problems. I definitely have the rattle when I first start it.
might want to get that looked at or fixed before it becomes a real issue
International was the only company I know of who ever got valve train control right. They didn't use a belt or a chain, they used timing gears.
A quick and relatively easy way to tell if the timing belt snapped is to run a compression test. I'm pretty sure Auto Zone will rent you a compression test set up. Pull a plug, Install the adapter and guage, crank the engine and observe the result and move to the next cylinder.
Usually if you have a busted timing belt you'll have one or more cylanders which will not develop any pressure at all.
In my experience, timing belts are not technically difficult, but disassembling much of the car to gain access can sure suck.
I never did one on a Subaru so I don't know the specifics, but I suspect its probably a sewing machine. Ugh....
not sure about the subaru engines but the hondas are just a pain to get to, but changing out the belt isn't that difficult.
hopefully his is the same way...assuming that is what happened.
I'll tell him about the compression test thing as well.
As i mentioned before a 2000 subbie with the 2.5 is CAKE to get to compared to most cars. Its right there in the front by the radiator. Didn't have to dissassemble much of anything to get it exposed and a new belt wrapped around in the right pattern.
Are you sure you're talking about a timing belt and not a serpentine belt KFinn?
As i mentioned before a 2000 subbie with the 2.5 is CAKE to get to compared to most cars. Its right there in the front by the radiator. Didn't have to dissassemble much of anything to get it exposed and a new belt wrapped around in the right pattern.
and that is for the timing belt? i saw the serpentine belt there.
I wasn't sure where the timing belt was enclosed at on his engine...of course I didn't look very long either!
ChunkyMonkey
04-01-2010, 12:11
Just got my car back for Timing chain, Serpentine, Tensioner etc.. it costed 2 mortgage payments. [Rant1] /end Rant
Just got my car back for Timing chain, Serpentine, Tensioner etc.. it costed 2 mortgage payments. [Rant1] /end Rant
holy crap nuts!
but isn't that a lexus?
Sounds like you went to a dealer MB888. NEVER get your car serviced at a dealership unless it is free.
yep, they like to nail you for everything! I always try to keep a vehicle so that it is always under manuf. warranty. saves a lot of $$ that way.
Positive Gents!!!
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/attachments/maintenance-service-repair/72373d1180852961-timing-belt-water-pump-replacement-13.jpg
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/attachments/maintenance-service-repair/72373d1180852961-timing-belt-water-pump-replacement-13.jpg
craigs380
04-01-2010, 13:29
Check your computer codes first. If there is a code it can pinpoint a problem.
Below is a quick check out for cambelt diagnosis.
Remove one or both small cam sprocket covers. Rotate the crankshaft with a ratchet wrench. See if cam belt is turning the cam sprocket. Some Subarus used 2 belts so check both sides. IIRC it was older models that had 2 belts. The small covers next to the valve covers are easy to remove. 10 mm socket on a 1/4 ratchets works well.
If both cams are turning you should be OK. There are marks on the cam sprockets that line up with notches on the rear cam cover. With the Crankshaft at TDC one mark on one cam will be straight up, the other straight down. A Gates timing belt set will have a belt, tensioner, and roller guides. If your car has a hydraulic tensior, replace it.
If cam timing OK. Try spraying some carb cleaner into a fitting on the intakes plenum. If the car starts to run then dies you have a fuel problem. You will need fuel pressure guages to check further.
If engine doesn't try to start check for spark. Remove a wire and stick a spare spark plug in, ground the spark plug threads and have someone crank the engine. You may have to shade the plug if you are in bright light.
Good luck. This man is an ARFcommer.lakewoodautorepair.com
Ahh, I can see where the cover goes KFinn, easy indeed. I'd like a Subaru next.
craigs380
04-01-2010, 13:37
Check your computer codes first. If there is a code it can pinpoint a problem. Check simple stuff first. Battery, Cable connections, Alternator Charging Etc. Is the fuel guage working? Never hurts to add a couple gallons of fuel. I have run into faulty guages resulting in no fuel in tank.
Below is a quick check out for cambelt diagnosis.
Remove one or both small cam sprocket covers. Rotate the crankshaft with a ratchet wrench. See if cam belt is turning the cam sprocket. Some Subarus used 2 belts so check both sides. IIRC it was older models that had 2 belts. The small covers next to the valve covers are easy to remove. 10 mm socket on a 1/4 ratchets works well.
If both cams are turning you should be OK. There are marks on the cam sprockets that line up with notches on the rear cam cover. With the Crankshaft at TDC one mark on one cam will be straight up, the other straight down. A Gates timing belt set will have a belt, tensioner, and roller guides. Make sure the instruction sheet is included. If your car has a hydraulic tensior, replace it.
If cam timing OK. Try spraying some carb cleaner into a fitting on the intakes plenum. If the car starts to run then dies you have a fuel problem. You will need fuel pressure guages to check further.
If engine doesn't try to start check for spark. Remove a wire and stick a spare spark plug in, ground the spark plug threads and have someone crank the engine. You may have to shade the plug if you are in bright light.
Good luck.
This man is an ARFcommer.lakewoodautorepair.com I do not know him and have not done business with him. Sound like a decent guy on CO HTF
GreenScoutII
04-01-2010, 13:50
I'm not at all familiar with Subarus, but that doesn't look difficult at all. Looks like the water pump may be taking a shit too.
ChunkyMonkey
04-01-2010, 17:30
holy crap nuts!
but isn't that a lexus?
I certainly wish its a Lexus.. its a Benzo.
Sounds like you went to a dealer MB888. NEVER get your car serviced at a dealership unless it is free.
Not dealership but it was a mercedes specific shop. I have had extremely bad experience with regular shops working on this car.
BTW i have heard good things on Reliable Autos in Lakewood. Ask for Arfcom discount! [Tooth]
Well, Benzo and BMW tend to be expensive any where you go.
All Japanese in Lakewood ripped me off a bunch when I was in high school.
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