View Full Version : Chicago asks for National Guard to lower murder rate. LOL
http://abcnews.go.com/US/illinois-lawmakers-request-national-guard-stop-crime/story?id=10478710
Bringing rifle toting units of the National Guard (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/National-Guard) into the streets of Chicago (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Chicago) is not the solution to city's surge in murders, experts said today.
"It's a very bad idea," said Bill Bratton (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Bill-Bratton), the former police commissioner of both Los Angeles (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Los-Angeles) and New York City. "The National Guard is that last thing you want in a situation of combating violence in national cities."
Bratton and others recoiled at the request made Sunday by Chicago Reps. John Fritchey and LaShawn Ford, both Democrats (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/U.S.-Democratic-Party), that Illinois (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Illinois) Gov. Pat Quinn (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Pat-Quinn) deploy the Illinois National Guard to deal with the violence. (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/dc-voting-rights-bill-house-seat-district-columbia/story?id=10423734)
So far this year there have been 113 murders reported homicides (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4704126&page=1), according to Chicago police statistics.
[Bang]
ChunkyMonkey
04-26-2010, 17:20
Ill. lawmaker John Fritchey wants military backup in fighting Chicago violence.
Idiot of the year!
I was just watching this on the news, almost as many murders as killed US soldiers in Iraq for the same time frame, amazing
[UZI][M2]
LA and New York have both had more murders and they aren't making ridiculous requests.
Before this thread gets started, I don't think this is really a gun issue at all.
LA and New York have both had more murders and they aren't making ridiculous requests.
Before this thread gets started, I don't think this is really a gun issue at all.
What do these three cities have in common? [Jail] oh yeah, incredibly stupid gun laws. Why not just give it a try, rescind those laws, let people actually own and carry and see what happens to crime numbers.
The streets in Chicago or anywhere else will not be safe until self defense is decriminalized.
ronaldrwl
04-26-2010, 19:28
Yes, please and thank you :)
I don't think you guys fully understand the issue in areas like this.
Take gang violence for instance. Gang members are already armed, and already defending themselves. The police and uninvolved, law abiding citizens are largely out of the equation. There are of course innocents that are caught in the cross fire, but taking a look strictly at gang violence, how does arming uninvolved people change anything.
I think it is ignorant to think that arming people will solve certain problems like that. Now don't take this the wrong way, because I think it is MORE ignorant to think that disarming the law abiding citizens will solve the issue. I VERY strongly believe that those gun restrictions should be lifted, but I do NOT think that it will do much to curb the violence in certain areas.
Nothing said so far though, even comes close to the level of stupid that the people in Chicago are displaying. They have a crime problem, so they disarm the population. Then, when the crime problem doesn't go away, they look to remedy the problem how? By hiring people with guns! Just again, not the civilians.
My opinion is that this is a problem that needs to be addressed from many avenues, but disarming the public isn't even an option, and just allowing the public to arm themselves is not enough of a solution. Crime will go down when people feel pride for their neighborhoods, aren't afraid to stand up to thugs, and perhaps more importantly, aren't so afraid to talk to police. Trying to take ALL the guns does take away the power for people to take back control of their communities though.
I totally agree with you Stuart, my point was simply that gang members don't only prey on gang members and if a single life is saved by a legally armed citizen that would be A-OK with me, and well worth the effort.
ChunkyMonkey
04-26-2010, 20:16
I disagree!
E.G.
There are 4 gun owners that I know of on my block. Whenever there is disturbance of any kind, guess who the rest of the neighbors look up to.
A good sample, last year a couple thug wannabes were loitering in the block. At first we thought they were harmless, until things start going missing from garages/backyards. I lost a lawn mower myself - Then one of the neighbors spot these asses pushing a snow blower down the street in the middle of summer. This particular neighbor sort of confronted these kids and was confronted back in a hurry. He had to back up to his garage, til another neighbor who saw the whole thing literally ran across the street with his shotty. It was quite a scene from what I was told.
In short, these two wannabes stop hanging around here (they live 3 blocks away in an apartment complex) and each time their truck passes by, their 'window rattling stereo system' is completely turned off (another past annoyance).
It might not be a real dramatic example you want to hear; Nevertheless, when you live in a small neighborhood where everyone knows and AWARE of each other (as gun owners :D), and crime/disturbance level almost doesnt exist.
Simple fact remains, "the 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons." That a HUGE different when it comes to human life!
A few headlines like "2 Gangbangers killed in home robbery attempt" will deter some thug wannabes, I guarantee you. Private gun ownership help preventing crime from occurring randomly or as the criminal wishes! It might not be the full solution, but it is certainly a step toward it.
I feel like you didn't even read my post, as I'm pretty sure that I addressed what you said.
ChunkyMonkey
04-26-2010, 20:29
I feel like you didn't even read my post, as I'm pretty sure that I addressed what you said.
lol.. yeah was responding to the first few one [Beer]
LA and New York have both had more murders and they aren't making ridiculous requests.
Before this thread gets started, I don't think this is really a gun issue at all.
how is it not somewhat related?
Brady campain uses these numbers against gun owners.
high crime rates seem to run much higher in areas that have more strict gun laws.
give the citizens back their right to own guns and protect themselves.
an armed society is a polite society...and that isn't just some random saying.
why not go to the other extreme and allow unrestricted concealed carry.
ETA:
after reading further down i see your points, and I agree that there are places where the citizens (if thats what you want to call the thugs) pretty much run the shittiest parts of town.
If you want to clean those places up, stave their benefits. send the police in and clean the places up, ship the fuckers down to AZ where they can replace the cheap labor with free labor to repay for their crimes.
Enforce stricter sentencing on gang related crimes, up the ante further and start increasing the amount of death penalty handouts. (obvisouly if there is any doubt they could be innocent this isn't the answer, but if you have someone that admits to slaying kids or multiple people, all the evidence is there, then there shouldn't be an issue with this).
I'm going to copy your story to use as an example of how arming citizens can help a community take back some control. Hope you don't mind.
I'm going to copy your story to use as an example of how arming citizens can help a community take back some control. Hope you don't mind.
hopefully it works, gotta be better than all the murders going on now.
CrufflerSteve
04-28-2010, 11:19
Mayor Daley and other Mayors: Seek “redress against the gun industry” in the World Court
http://volokh.com/2010/04/28/mayor-daley-and-other-mayors-seek-redress-against-the-gun-industry-in-the-world-court/
Let's send Hizzoner to Libya so can learn about human rights. I'm sure Chicago would love UN Peacekeepers.
Steve
68Charger
04-28-2010, 12:00
He may have it WRONG, but he's closer to the real solution than they've done in the past...
what they want is more guns in the hands of trained, armed citizens (that happen to be wearing National Guard uniforms)
take away the uniforms, reduce the training requirements, and GIVE CITIZENS BACK THEIR GUNS! and this problem will get worse in a short period, and then improve over time...
I realize that inner city problems go deeper than this, but violent crimes and robberies would certainly drop in the long run- and sales tax revenue will go up as citizens legally arm themselves... [Coffee]
kind of a thread resurrection, but here is from the recent NRA email I got:
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=5789
Friday, April 30, 2010 Fearful that America’s Supreme Court will soon strike down Chicago’s handgun ban, frustrated by the Illinois legislature’s rejection of his anti-gun agenda, and repudiated by American courts and legislatures over his plan to sue federally licensed manufacturers and dealers of firearms for third-party crimes, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley (D) is showing contempt for his own country’s and state’s institutions, by seeking a foreign entity to enforce his anti-gun agenda against the American people.
This week, Daley called for “redress against the gun industry” in the World Court, in The Hague, Netherlands. Forgetting or not caring who his constituents are, Daley blurted “This is coming from international mayors. They’re saying, ‘We’re tired of your guns, America.’”
Daley’s global gun control fantasy received the endorsement of Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter (D), whose enthusiasm for international law is apparently matched by his novel interpretation of the United States Constitution. “I love the Second Amendment,” Nutter recently said, but “I have a First Amendment right not to be shot.” Nutter’s utterly ignorant statement proves that in our country, you can be elected to public office while knowing remarkably little about the Bill of Rights. Nutter acknowledged that the Daley’s scheme is a “long shot.” But, he said, “you never know until you try,” adding “The political establishment in many state capitals—and certainly in Washington [is] so deathly afraid of the NRA that people cannot make the right decision for their own constituents.”
And that’s not the only outrageous proposal put for forth by Chicago politicians of late. Illinois State Representatives John Fritchey (D) and LaShawn Ford (D) have decided that the best way to battle crime in “gun-free” Chicago is to militarize the city. The two legislators recently called on Illinois Governor Pat Quinn (D), Mayor Daley, and Chicago Police Superintendent Jody Weis to bring in the National Guard in an effort to thwart crime.
So in a city that is quickly starting to sound more like a banana republic, law-abiding citizens are denied the means to defend themselves, while the best suggestion anti-gun lawmakers can come up with to address crime is to emasculate the Chicago police department, and bring in soldiers to occupy the city and patrol the streets!
It’s a sad day in America when lawmakers would rather turn to National Guard patrols of city streets than to allow law-abiding citizens the choice to legally own and carry firearms for self-defense.
From the outside, the solution to their problem just seems so simple. I'm baffled at these politicians acting like this.
SA Friday
05-01-2010, 20:23
It goes even deeper than that really. When you strip back the initial layers, you end up at the same starting points. The mass majority of gang and criminal elements come from impoverished communities and homes. The typical gamg member is raised in a community devoid of ethical male role models and single mothers who are not around, because they are trying to make ends meet. This results in a cascade effect of lack of education, understanding of moral ethics due to self survival, and defense through the power of numbers. This demoralizes the value for life and teaches empathy is for the weak. This results in violence on a scale the rest of the society cannot relate to. For the most part, you don't see gang wars and drive-bys in middle class neighborhoods.
This is a much more complex issue than just calling in the national guard. That will clean up the streets for a week and then it will be back to what it was. Arming the citizens will resolve individual rights issues of self defense, but ultimately will not address the societal conditions that led to the warfare in the first place.
theGinsue
05-01-2010, 20:48
I was just watching this on the news, almost as many murders as killed US soldiers in Iraq for the same time frame, amazing
[UZI][M2]
This is just more proof of why we need to pull out all of our troops and other people from Chicago. We don't belong there. We'll never change the way they think or act so there is no point in the senseless loss of additional life.
theGinsue
05-01-2010, 21:13
Mayor Daley and other Mayors: Seek “redress against the gun industry” in the World Court
http://volokh.com/2010/04/28/mayor-daley-and-other-mayors-seek-redress-against-the-gun-industry-in-the-world-court/
Let's send Hizzoner to Libya so can learn about human rights. I'm sure Chicago would love UN Peacekeepers.
Steve
At a news conference, Daley explained, “This is coming from international mayors. They’re saying, ‘We’re tired of your guns, America. ... We don’t want those anymore because guns kill and injure people.’”
- Hmm. I've heard that tripe my whole life yet haven't seen any evidence of a gun killing a person without the direct efforts of a human being making a conscious decision to use a firearm to cause harm.
Among the supporters of the Daley resolution was Mexico City Mayor Marcelo Ebrard Casauban, who said that “85 percent” of Mexican drug cartel guns come from the United States.
- PROVIDE PROOF or STFU!
Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter also endorsed a World Court case, because “I love the 2nd Amendment,” but “I have a 1st Amendment right not to be shot.”
- I've read through the Constitution (especially the Bill of Rights) and don't recall seeing that particular right included. Maybe this Mayor needs to LEARN what the Constitution is all about and realize that his "right" to not be afraid doesn't trump my 2nd Amendment rights - period!
In 1998, Chicago Mayor Daley and New Orleans Mayor Marc Morial filed the vanguard of what would become three dozen municipal lawsuits (http://www.davekopel.com/2dAmendment.htm#Suits) against the firearms industry. The lawsuits were not successful in court, but they did come very close to convincing firearms manufacturers to capitulate.
- Yeah; says who?
The suits were finally ended (http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_10_16-2005_10_22.shtml#1129830865) by the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, signed into law in 2005.
- So, these anti-gunners have had their agenda to bring discredit to firearms manufacturers cut short by U.S. federal law, so they go outside of our judicial system and go global. If the supposed crime(s) are committed in the U.S. and the actions do not constitute a crime HERE, then there is NO crime!
This is just more proof of why we need to pull out all of our troops and other people from Chicago. We don't belong there. We'll never change the way they think or act so there is no point in the senseless loss of additional life.
[ROFL1]
At a news conference, Daley explained, “This is coming from international mayors. They’re saying, ‘We’re tired of your guns, America. ... We don’t want those anymore because guns kill and injure people.’”
- Hmm. I've heard that tripe my whole life yet haven't seen any evidence of a gun killing a person without the direct efforts of a human being making a conscious decision to use a firearm to cause harm.
well it is very apparent you have never made a gun mad ginsue...[gun] "you don't know me biatch!"[gun]
Among the supporters of the Daley resolution was Mexico City Mayor Marcelo Ebrard Casauban, who said that “85 percent” of Mexican drug cartel guns come from the United States.
- PROVIDE PROOF or STFU!
They don't have to...you know that Mexico should control what guns our country should have...they should have complete say in what we can own! duh!!!!
Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter also endorsed a World Court case, because “I love the 2nd Amendment,” but “I have a 1st Amendment right not to be shot.”
- I've read through the Constitution (especially the Bill of Rights) and don't recall seeing that particular right included. Maybe this Mayor needs to LEARN what the Constitution is all about and realize that his "right" to not be afraid doesn't trump my 2nd Amendment rights - period!
You can't speak if you are dead ginsue! come on now we all know that! how can you exercise your first if your heart aint beatin!
In 1998, Chicago Mayor Daley and New Orleans Mayor Marc Morial filed the vanguard of what would become three dozen municipal lawsuits (http://www.davekopel.com/2dAmendment.htm#Suits) against the firearms industry. The lawsuits were not successful in court, but they did come very close to convincing firearms manufacturers to capitulate.
- Yeah; says who?
They almost had them! that counts for something, right?
The suits were finally ended (http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_10_16-2005_10_22.shtml#1129830865) by the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, signed into law in 2005.
- So, these anti-gunners have had their agenda to bring discredit to firearms manufacturers cut short by U.S. federal law, so they go outside of our judicial system and go global. If the supposed crime(s) are committed in the U.S. and the actions do not constitute a crime HERE, then there is NO crime!
But we all know that global law is more than that silly constitution. just some random writings a bunch of old guys threw together during some hard times with the english..we really need to let it go, we are all friends and sing kum bye yah now. lets all hold hands, even the illegal immigrants
just having some fun ginsue! I am not serious and you know I agree with you 100%[Flower]
theGinsue
05-01-2010, 21:54
just having some fun ginsue! I am not serious and you know I agree with you 100%[Flower]
Oh, I got it! No need to offer a disclaimer or apologize.
Those were some funny responses BTW!
I'm really not thin skinned - understand biatch?![ROFL1]
Oh, I got it! No need to offer a disclaimer or apologize.
Those were some funny responses BTW!
I'm really not thin skinned - understand biatch?![ROFL1]
just wanted to make sure you didn't get your panties in a bunch! I know you got a new thong[ROFL3]
theGinsue
05-02-2010, 08:21
just wanted to make sure you didn't get your panties in a bunch! I know you got a new thong[ROFL3]
Yeah, I got a brown one - I figured it would end up that color eventually.....
Ryan_Th3_K1d
05-02-2010, 08:34
Yeah, I got a brown one - I figured it would end up that color eventually.....
tmi
theGinsue
05-02-2010, 08:38
Yeah, me in a thong...
[ROFL1][LOL][ROFL3][ROFL2][LOL][ROFL1]
Yeah, I got a brown one - I figured it would end up that color eventually.....
what, does it really leak through the depends and onto the thong?[Muaha]
StagLefty
05-02-2010, 18:25
what, does it really leak through the depends and onto the thong?[Muaha]
Depends don't leak !! mmmmmmmmm that's what somebody told me anyway [Help]
theGinsue
05-02-2010, 18:41
what, does it really leak through the depends and onto the thong?[Muaha]
OUCH!
Depends don't leak !! mmmmmmmmm that's what somebody told me anyway [Help]
Now THAT'S funny![ROFL1]
Depends don't leak !! mmmmmmmmm that's what somebody told me anyway [Help]
[ROFL3]
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