View Full Version : DAY 3: Colorado Gun-Buyers Held Hostage
Bailey Guns
05-03-2010, 11:08
OK, class. Time for a pop-quiz. Here's the question:
Q: If CBI institutes a computer system upgrade on May 1, 2010, the likely outcome will be?
Everything will go smoothly. No one will notice. The processing of redundant insta-checks through the CBI system will not be affected.
There will be some minor glitches. Overall, the transition will go smoothly and the processing of redundant and unnecessary CBI checks will continue with just minor delays for buyers.
There will be major issues. Most gun buyers in Colorado will experience severe delays in the processing of redundant and unnecessary background checks. Dealers will lose business.
It will be a total pooch-screw. As usual, law-abiding gun buyers will have their Constitutional rights denied as they are subjected to a redundant and unnecessary CBI background check process...that doesn't work...for going on 3 days. Dealers will lose business and take the brunt of complaints from defacto denied gun purchasers who don't understand, and don't care, that it's not the dealer's fault the unnecessary and redundant CBI system isn't working.If you picked #4, congratulations! You're correct.
We're going on DAY 3. Colorado gun-buyers (those wanting to buy from a dealer) are going on DAY 3 their rights are being denied by CBI.
As usual with a government beauracracy, no one is accountable. We (anyone in the gun business or wanting to buy a gun from a dealer) just have to suck it up and deal with government incompetence.
Bailey Guns
05-03-2010, 11:17
Colorado.gov (http://www.colorado.gov/)https://instacheck.state.co.us/images/logoColorado.gif
https://instacheck.state.co.us/images/headerGraphic_day.jpg
InstaCheck (https://instacheck.state.co.us/index.cfm)Request a Background Check
CDPS
CDPS (http://cdpsweb.state.co.us/)
CBI (http://cbi.state.co.us/)
InstaCheck Unit (http://cbi.state.co.us/ic/index.asp)Alert!https://instacheck.state.co.us/images/alert.gif
The system is experiencing technical difficulties and is currently unavailable. You will not be able to submit background checks at this time, try back later.
Please begin by using the menu bar on the left. You may use this menu to navigate through the website.
InstaCheck
Colorado Bureau of Investigation
InstaCheck Unit
P.O. Box 280629
Denver, CO 80228-0629
Tel: 303.239.4283 Fax: 303.239.5848
Bailey Guns
05-03-2010, 11:18
Try back later??? For 3 days???
I think maybe CBI may have outsourced their customer service to H&K.
Not saying anything here (put on your tinfoil), but one of the best ways to control is not through fear, nor intimidation. It is through menial operations of the "status quo" of business. With the fast paced world of todays "hurry up and wait" beaucracy, people will soon come to "expect" it to take a long time to get background checks, etc.... Eventually, people will "expect" to fill out paperwork, sending it in four times, waiting months on an answer, having to resubmit because of a government side error, etc. Until the day comes when people think, "Why bother purchasing a gun, it takes too damn long to get one anyways and I have other things to do. Besides, you can't have this combo of firearms in this county and when I travel to this state I'll have to this and this and this and".... Another one for the "it'll never happen here/to me" camp.
Bailey Guns
05-03-2010, 11:34
I guess I should say I'm just speculating that the ongoing denial of gun purchases is due to the system upgrade. I don't know that for a fact.
I do know they were instituting a new system on Sat as it was announced on the InstaCheck page. Since Sat, instachecks aren't. Coincidence? I don't think so. But I suppose there could be another explanation for the outage.
Had my gun in 45 minutes on Friday...went to get my rifle out of pawn today, and a 20 hour wait! [Rant2]
Bailey Guns
05-03-2010, 11:46
Had my gun in 45 minutes on Friday...went to get my rifle out of pawn today, and a 20 hour wait! [Rant2]
Yeah...for something the NICS system could do in about 20 seconds.
Outsourced,,, "Hellooo my nam iz charles my I hep you vewy much"
cowboykjohnson
05-03-2010, 12:20
Bought one at Sportmans in Loveland on Saturday... only took 45 mins....?
Outsourced,,, "Hellooo my nam iz Jagadev my I hep you vewy much"
Bailey Guns
05-03-2010, 12:27
Bought one at Sportmans in Loveland on Saturday... only took 45 mins....?
Must've been just before the system went Tango Uniform.
Dealers can phone checks in now...with hour + wait times before the call is answered.
CrufflerSteve
05-03-2010, 12:50
Whenever the government does a computer upgrade - watch out. When they outsource it is either a good friend of somebody or the lowest bidder. Competence is usually not checked.
When Y2K came around hardly any systems even burped. The ATF computers were all screwed up for some time.
Steve
Bailey Guns
05-03-2010, 13:03
They seem to be back up for call-in checks. What a PITA that is. At this time any checks that were able to be put into the online system have to be called in.
Fuster cluck in the 1st Degree.
theGinsue
05-03-2010, 14:37
OK, class. Time for a pop-quiz. Here's the question:
Q: If CBI institutes a computer system upgrade on May 1, 2010, the likely outcome will be?
Everything will go smoothly. No one will notice. The processing of redundant insta-checks through the CBI system will not be affected.
There will be some minor glitches. Overall, the transition will go smoothly and the processing of redundant and unnecessary CBI checks will continue with just minor delays for buyers.
There will be major issues. Most gun buyers in Colorado will experience severe delays in the processing of redundant and unnecessary background checks. Dealers will lose business.
It will be a total pooch-screw. As usual, law-abiding gun buyers will have their Constitutional rights denied as they are subjected to a redundant and unnecessary CBI background check process...that doesn't work...for going on 3 days. Dealers will lose business and take the brunt of complaints from defacto denied gun purchasers who don't understand, and don't care, that it's not the dealer's fault the unnecessary and redundant CBI system isn't working.Oh! Oh! Oh! Mr. Kotter; I know the answer to this one....it's 5, "You're screwed and they don't care".
theGinsue
05-03-2010, 14:40
When Y2K came around hardly any systems even burped. The ATF computers were all screwed up for some time.
Steve
Somehow you don't sound like you believe that it went that way by design? Silly boy. You still have some faith in the system.
2 hours later, I'm finally back home with my AR...had the guys on the phone for nearly 45 minutes waiting for it to go through...
I picked #4.
The government is the single largest employer of useless and stupid bureaucrats, morons, idiots, dolts, tards, and halfwit fuckstains...but I digress.
Well crap, I'm looking for a new Colt and was going to head down to GMG tonight to see what they had. Maybe I'll hold off for a couple of days.
jerrymrc
05-03-2010, 18:22
I picked #4.
The government is the single largest employer of useless and stupid bureaucrats, morons, idiots, dolts, tards, and halfwit fuckstains...but I digress.
Sorry you like to paint with a broad brush.
palepainter
05-03-2010, 18:28
Great time to pay attention to the FTF ads.
Troublco
05-03-2010, 19:50
[/LIST]Oh! Oh! Oh! Mr. Kotter; I know the answer to this one....it's 5, "You're screwed and they don't care".
And, once again, Ginsue hits the nail squarely on the head.
Troublco
05-03-2010, 19:51
Sorry you like to paint with a broad brush.
I work for the government myself, and I'm not sure I can disagree too much.....
Richard K
05-03-2010, 22:01
As of 1:00 P.M. today they were still down, however, Green Mountain Guns got approval by phone. Had to wait approx. 30 min. but walked out with a new Glock.
They always have to call mine in anyways [Shake]
gnihcraes
05-03-2010, 22:23
knew this would probably happen, i've been installing a piece of this system at work in the last few weeks as a "test" and it was extremely slow and cumbersome for our purposes, figured it would hit the public sooner or later... dang.
glad I haven't been buying anything for this time period then. it figures things would get totally fucked up...they couldn't test it ahead of time and work out the bugs.
guess it is good enough for .gov work[Bang]
This is part of a wider software upgrade that is spread across several systems.
When we in LE do background checks we query a system known as CCIC and NCIC. This upgrade does away with CCIC and replaces it with CCIS. Instead of an application that is internet based, it now requires a resident software client be installed on the host computer. This does not apply to instacheck. At least not yet. However the effects of this change are effecting multiple systems.
All our systems went down the end of April and are just barely crawling now. They have had some issues installing the software and getting it to run properly on all the thousands of terminals that are currently running. We have heard that it may be another couple of weeks (at best) before they overcome the unforeseen issues and get it running properly again.
Until then, expect some delays.
And no, at this hour I can't spell....
gnihcraes
05-04-2010, 07:38
What he said ^^ I noticed the slowness of the new "local app" weeks ago... but what can I do about it, I'm just an internal customer like everyone else. The whole process that happens in the background is pretty amazing, and the multiple agencies and systems it queries for each transaction is huge. This CCIS thing cost me a lot of time installing the new local application, it cannot even be remotely installed, I must touch each users computer that needs this application. Not good. I hope they come up with something better...
This is part of a wider software upgrade that is spread across several systems.
When we in LE do background checks we query a system known as CCIC and NCIC. This upgrade does away with CCIC and replaces it with CCIS. Instead of an application that is internet based, it now requires a resident software client be installed on the host computer. This does not apply to instacheck. At least not yet. However the effects of this change are effecting multiple systems.
All our systems went down the end of April and are just barely crawling now. They have had some issues installing the software and getting it to run properly on all the thousands of terminals that are currently running. We have heard that it may be another couple of weeks (at best) before they overcome the unforeseen issues and get it running properly again.
Who's bright idea was it to go backwards in computer evolution and move back to locally installed apps? Probably the same brainiac who decided to roll this to production without having it all properly staged, QA'd, and load tested outside production first. Unforseen issues are only Unforseen if nothing has been tested in advance.
You can tell whoever did all this that private industry people label it: FAIL
H.
clublights
05-04-2010, 15:40
Who's bright idea was it to go backwards in computer evolution and move back to locally installed apps? Probably the same brainiac who decided to roll this to production without having it all properly staged, QA'd, and load tested outside production first. Unforseen issues are only Unforseen if nothing has been tested in advance.
You can tell whoever did all this that private industry people label it: FAIL
H.
It's not a fail ........ it's a set up for the next contract to take the system back to a "cloud" based set up ... you know just like everyone else did 3 years ago ( AKA Now but in the case of this it's that next contract!)
Sounds like CDOT when we went to SAP for pay/workorders
funkfool
05-04-2010, 17:36
Sounds like CDOT when we went to SAP for pay/workorders
SAP
GAAAHHHHHH!!!!
BPTactical
05-04-2010, 17:44
Sounds like CDOT when we went to SAP for pay/workorders
Wasnt November 06 fun?
Thats all I do all day, workorders in SAP.[Bang]
Cant wait to retire[Beer]
Nearly two hours at 11:00 today.
Well, it might have been slightly less but I left and went to lunch. Asked the guy to call me. He said it had been taking about an hour but, like I said, it was two before I got the call. Could be he was busy and didn't get around to calling until 1:00.
I really think they thought through most of it. But some of it, as good as it is for end users, is difficult to install. Stop and consider all the wireless terminals. One in every car in larger areas. And each one needs a unique ID and so on.
This and other things are all being done in the name of increased network security while hopefully increasing functionality to the end user. And I have yet to see a seamless or invisible software upgrade that didn't break something else.
I guess that's why POST lets me teach firearms and not computer systems.
[Coffee]
Bailey Guns
05-04-2010, 22:43
I ran a couple of checks by phone early this morning. Almost 1 hour on hold. The checks themselves went quickly.
I started an online check on a forum member (who drove up from down south) at about 12:40pm. It was after 3pm when it was completed. At one point we saw almost 200 checks in queue with an estimated wait time of 3 hours.
I'd prefer the state did away with the CBI checks and allowed dealers to log right into the NICS system. It would save the state a lot of money and it would save gun buyers and dealers a lot of time.
I was in the GS at 1:00 today and was told to come back tomorrow for pick-up. He said the waits are unusually long. I mentioned the new computer system and he was unaware.
Not a big deal. I figured I'd pick it up tomorrow anyway.
Question;
Is there a 72 hour rule on background checks?
Question;
Is there a 72 hour rule on background checks?
Nope. Its pretty much as fast as they can get through the check either via phone or internet. I have seen it take as little as 5 minutes, and as long as... well... i dunno, a REALLY long time! haha
Colorado Osprey
05-05-2010, 05:09
There is a background check for internal/prospective law enforcement that goes through Langly; most people don't even know about. It is an expensive system to be a part of. It can check every credit card or check you have ever used in your life. Even governement issued credit cards. They know every prescription drug you have ever purchased too. Somehow they know every gun purchase you have ever made as well- except for private FTF purchases.
Things you think are private are NOT.
Back on topic:
Didn't Colorado pass a law that says basiclly: If you don't get and answer on a firearm background check within 24 Hours, dealers can proceed with the purchase without a response. ??
gnihcraes
05-05-2010, 09:37
...I'd prefer the state did away with the CBI checks and allowed dealers to log right into the NICS system. It would save the state a lot of money and it would save gun buyers and dealers a lot of time.
doubt it will ever happen... the hassles it costs us at work to get people authorization to use the system is bad enough, let alone allowing FFL's access to it would really cause problems. (I can only assume)
Now that the new system (which isn't working) is being used, they have removed many people previously authorized to use CCIC NCIC in our department... now it's limited to a select few and they can't get anything done with it. [Bang]
Bailey Guns
05-05-2010, 16:39
It's already done that way in many states. It's no hassle to get plugged into the NICS system as a dealer. You fax a very short form with your business info and that's it. You log in just like you would to CBI Instacheck.
gnihcraes
05-05-2010, 21:07
could be... wonder if it's a full system like the CCIS is? I ask because I've known people that have been reprimanded for using the system for non work related purpose, which I could see happening with others having access...
That really sux that they are having these problems. I tried to buy a gun at a pawn shop back in 1994 and was told that I was not approved. I guess it was due to being arrested once for a misdemeanor 3rd degree assault nearly 20 years ago. Now 6 years and 4 combat tours in Iraq later, I no longer buy new guns anymore. I am a Staff NCO, and have a security clearance, and am issued weapons that I am required to shoot, yet I am told that I will not be able to pass the background check to purchase a new gun. So I just buy used. So forgive me if I say I hope the whole system collapses and everybody is in the same boat as me. Im not bitter, I just think it would be nice if I knew that I wasnt the only law abiding person to be denied. [ROFL1]
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