Need to discuss the Taurus Judge

[wheelgun]

Okay, I think I already know the answer to my question, but my brother doesn't believe me.

He got a Taurus Judge a few weeks back and picked up some shot shells. He couldn't locate any .45lc, so I ordered some for him. Got the ammo in and the box said ".45 colt" on the side. From everything I've ever read, .45 colt and .45lc are the same. Upon seeing the round, he told me it was wrong and that it wouldn't work in the judge. He was willing, however, to take the round and try to fit it in the cylinder. Did that and said the round was too short for the cylinder and said when the round jumped from the cylinder to the barrel that the gun would blow up. My thought was that yeah, that probably is how the gun is designed, the cylinder is prepared to handle the shorter round. No big deal, I'm sending the ammo back to the supplier. And I'm not going to bother looking for something with "long colt" on the box. I'll let him figure out his own problems.

So am I wrong here? Does the Taurus need some extraordinarily long round?

[Hoser]

45 Long Colt and 45 Colt *are* the same thing.

However there is such a thing as the 38 Short Colt and 38 Long Colt.

[steincj]

If it was 45 auto colt, then it would have been short, and never seated right because it is rimless (45 ACP). But if the 45LC can be short in the cylinder and still function properly. The 45LC isn't getting any longer, but the Judge now has a Longer cylinder to hold 3" .410 bore Magnum.

Ever fire 38SPL out of a 357MAG? Same principle. That's why revolvers have "forcing cones" on them. They "force" everything into place to compensate for the cylinder - barrel gap.

EDIT - the "Raging Judge Magnum" chambers .410 (incl 3" Magnum), .45LC, and .454 Casull
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/02/09/tauruss-new-raging-judge-magnum/

[Irving]

Ask him how the cylinder is supposed to rotate if the rounds stick out of the holes.

Unfortunately, I have no idea about the differences between 45 Colt and 45 Long Colt for you. A quick call by him, to the manufacturer would solve this pretty quickly though.

[wheelgun]

All replies make perfect sense. Would've been great if he got a manual with the thing that explained that. That Raging Judge Magnum is something else, isn't it? Talk about a freaking hand cannon!

[wheelgun]

He also claims that the LC case is necked, which I've never seen and I'll admit, I lack the experience to determine.

[TFOGGER]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt

http://www.lasc.us/45Colt-Cart-Dimen-3.jpg

No neck on the case.

[Daniel_187]

off topic a little. What about .45 auto and 45 ACP? are they the same too? just wondering

[TFOGGER]

off topic a little. What about .45 auto and 45 ACP? are they the same too? just wondering

.45 Auto(ACP) is the same. It is a much shorter case with no rim(compared to the Long Colt). It headspaces on the case mouth, so a taper crimp is used on the case to avoid bullet setback. The .45 Auto-Rim is a rimmed version of the .45 ACP for use in revolvers without the use of moon clips.

[SA Friday]

.45 ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol. This round is designed to feed from magazines and therefore has a rim equal to the dimension of the actual case. It was designed in the early 1900's and designed soley for modern smokeless powders.

.45 Colt or LC = Long Colt. This round is designed to feed into a revolver cylinder and therefore has a rim larger than the dimension of the actual case. It was designed in the mid 1800's and was originally designed for use with black powder. The SAAMI specs on this round reflect this with smokeless power as the standard pressure levels are still very low. It cuts down on blowing up old guns. Reloading this round, if the gun can take the pressures, can equal and many times surpass the 44 Mag cartridge. Better make damn sure it can take the pressure though. I know for a fact the T/C Contender 45LC barrels and the Ruger revolvers in 45LC will take mag pressure levels.

Both cases are straight walled cases. The Judge will shoot the much shorter 45LC ammo as it's forcing cone is made to accomidate this jump from the cylinder to the rifling. All revolvers have to deal with this issue. The judge is just exaggerated as it's cylinder is made to accomidate a .410 shotgun shell. The .410 shotgun shell's dimensions were originally based off of the 45LC dimensions (except the length) as the dies to cut this chamber were already in existance. This "chamber size theft" is very common in designing new rounds. The 30-06 case head size was designed around the 45 ACP round (or was it visa-versa, I can never remember which came first...).

Take him to the range, load one of the rounds, pull the trigger, and hand it back to him while telling him he's a dumb-ass. That's what I would do if it was my brother. [Tooth]

[GreenScoutII]

However there is such a thing as the 38 Short Colt and 38 Long Colt.

Only amongst my dad's collection of obscure cartridges. I've never seen either one of them anywhere else[Tooth]

[steincj]

Waaaayyyy off topic with this . . . but if the Judge can take 2.5" .410 bore, does this mean the Saiga T14 upper can take 45LC? Not sure if it is rifled or not . . .

[SA Friday]

Waaaayyyy off topic with this . . . but if the Judge can take 2.5" .410 bore, does this mean the Saiga T14 upper can take 45LC? Not sure if it is rifled or not . . .
No. The chambers are made for different amount of pressure levels. The 410 is lower than the 45LC.

[Ah Pook]

Waaaayyyy off topic with this . . . but if the Judge can take 2.5" .410 bore, does this mean the Saiga T14 upper can take 45LC? Not sure if it is rifled or not . . .
Take a video if you try running the .45lc through a Saiga .410. :D

Am I the only one that thinks the Judge is a problem looking for a solution?[Peep]