Question about carrying a concealed firearm in the parking lot of a US Post Office

[Glock Shooter]

We're considering changing the location where we exchange our daughter with my wife's ex-husband. If we exchange in the parking lot of a US Post Office can I step out of my vehicle while carrying a concealed firearm?

Thanks in advance.

[TFOGGER]

We're considering changing the location where we exchange our daughter with my wife's ex-husband. If we exchange in the parking lot of a US Post Office can I step out of my vehicle while carrying a concealed firearm?

Thanks in advance.

My understanding is that the weapons prohibition applies to the building and secured areas (behind fences, etc.), but I may be way off here. CCW instructors?

[Wulf202]

you're actually able to carry inside the post office as long as you're not committing any other crime

[4gunfun]

you're actually able to carry inside the post office as long as you're not committing any other crime That's what my teacher told us too. Some special rule for post office.

[Wulf202]

If you want to read it yourself (which I suggest)


US Code Title 18
§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d)Subsection (a) shall not apply to— (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.



Title 39 CFR 232.1
(l) Weapons and explosives . Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

(p) Penalties and other law. (1) Alleged violations of these rules and regulations are heard, and the penalties prescribed herein are imposed, either in a Federal district court or by a Federal magistrate in accordance with applicable court rules. Questions regarding such rules should be directed to the regional counsel for the region involved.
(2) Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and regulations in this section while on property under the charge and control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both. Nothing contained in these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations applicable to any area in which the property is situated.

q) Enforcement. (1) Members of the U.S. Postal Service security force shall exercise the powers provided by 18 U.S.C. 3061(c)(2) and shall be responsible for enforcing the regulations in this section in a manner that will protect Postal Service property and persons thereon

[Bailey Guns]

I've seen heated arguments by attorneys...one arguing it's legal because of paragraph 3 in US Code Title 18 § 930, the arguing it's not legal because of what 39 CFR 232.1 says.

I've personally asked the postmaster in my town and she really didn't know. She asked the Postal Inspector responsible for this post office and he/she couldn't really give me a straight answer as to whether the US Code or the Code of Federal Regulations took precedence.

Apparently, there is no easy answer. I'll carry in the post offices in Bailey and the surrounding communities...not anywhere else.

The one thing I can say is I mail firearms all the time...so it can't be completely illegal. And anyone can send a long gun through the mail. So, who knows?

[stove]

A postal worker was charged, convicted and lost his appeal for having a gun in his car in the parking lot of a post office. This is the only case I know of:

http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/unpub/08/08-31197.0.wpd.pdf

[mikeh1911]

I talked to my postmaster and they and the signs posted in the Post Officer say No Guns. So why not pick another place to meet that you both agree on. Police station parking lots are where I saw lots of exchanges happening. Safe for both parties.

[Irving]

Signs say no guns in the building. Be pretty tough to argue that a sign posted on the door meant for the whole property since you have to walk all the way to door to see it. At least in my opinion.

Police station or a library is a good idea.

[ChadAmberg]

Another thought is, is it a dedicated parking lot owned by the Post Office, or is it just leasing space in a strip mall?

[Hitman 6]

Or you could think of it this way. They key word is concealed. Meaning no one knows but you. If no one knows you have a gun, and no one thinks you have a gun, you don't have a gun, therefore you aren't breaking any laws, right? [Tooth]

[Glock Shooter]

Thanks for all the replies. We're not going to use the Post Office, there's another issue with an unregulated intersection. Interesting enough I had to interact with the Broomfield Police on Saturday. The Officer was very professional but the moment I stepped out of the car he noticed my Galco Fanny pack and said "Is that a holster?" I said "It sure is, I'm licensed to carry a firearm" He asked if I would leave it in the car, I said no problem, the reason I had not take it off to begin with is that my 15 year old son was in the passenger seat. After taking it off I asked if he'd like my LCP removed from my pocket too, he smiled and said "that would probably be a good idea". Gotta give props to the Officer, he was great. I warned my wife's ex 2 years ago, never test me when it comes to exchanging our little girl. He was late, I called him, he let the call got to voice mail, I called the Police, end of story.

He gave some cock and bull story about his ride not showing and that they were waiting for the bus. Only problem was that when I finally picked her up she said that he never had any intention of showing up until he heard I called the cops, bottom line he lied to me and to the Police Officer. We'll see what our lawyer has to say tomorrow when we speak. I just wish we could afford a private investigator as I'm sure from the stories we hear all we really need do is catch him on camera being a really bad parent. Anybody possibly working in this field or retired with experience?

[rforsythe]

US Code Title 18 § 930 says "in a Federal facility". 39 CFR 232.1 says "on postal property". So I'd say that if the USPS owns the parking lot, it's part of their property. If it's part of a strip mall or something, it could be argued that you'd have to be within the USPS space to violate the CFR, not just within proximity of it.

I would say that the law talking about federal facilities is more broad in scope than the CFR specifically detailing postal property, and you could likely be prosecuted under the CFR because it explicitly prohibits that on a specific subset of what the broader rule allows. IMO don't test it and find out, being a federal offense you get to deal with a whole other level of court and consequence.

I wonder what other CFR's apply to other federal facilities which would potentially supersede USCT 18 (not to mention local prohibitions for state/municipal gov't facilities).

[ronaldrwl]

The post office not a federal building. You can carry there just like any other business. They can post no guns. That's what my CCW class was told.

[AGC]

A postal worker was charged, convicted and lost his appeal for having a gun in his car in the parking lot of a post office. This is the only case I know of:

http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/unpub/08/08-31197.0.wpd.pdf


And all that amounts to is a misdemeanor.

Right up there with not having a current license for your dog or crossing the street against the light.

Balance that against your life and that of your loved ones accordingly.

[Wulf202]

And all that amounts to is a misdemeanor.

Right up there with not having a current license for your dog or crossing the street against the light.

Balance that against your life and that of your loved ones accordingly.

Wise words....

[Wulf202]

Thanks for all the replies. We're not going to use the Post Office, there's another issue with an unregulated intersection. Interesting enough I had to interact with the Broomfield Police on Saturday. The Officer was very professional but the moment I stepped out of the car he noticed my Galco Fanny pack and said "Is that a holster?" I said "It sure is, I'm licensed to carry a firearm" He asked if I would leave it in the car, I said no problem, the reason I had not take it off to begin with is that my 15 year old son was in the passenger seat. After taking it off I asked if he'd like my LCP removed from my pocket too, he smiled and said "that would probably be a good idea". Gotta give props to the Officer, he was great. I warned my wife's ex 2 years ago, never test me when it comes to exchanging our little girl. He was late, I called him, he let the call got to voice mail, I called the Police, end of story.

He gave some cock and bull story about his ride not showing and that they were waiting for the bus. Only problem was that when I finally picked her up she said that he never had any intention of showing up until he heard I called the cops, bottom line he lied to me and to the Police Officer. We'll see what our lawyer has to say tomorrow when we speak. I just wish we could afford a private investigator as I'm sure from the stories we hear all we really need do is catch him on camera being a really bad parent. Anybody possibly working in this field or retired with experience?

Start documenting now, get a digital recorder and record the exchanges and phone calls. Put your phone on speaker when you're talking and record the date and time before you dial. Colorado is only a single party notification state, meaning only one side has to know there's a recording going on.

Interesting Interface with the cop though, funny that he picked up on the fanny pack instantly.