View Full Version : time to donate
http://www.nagr.org/internetblast3.aspx?pid=a22
I just gave em $10. You know it is going to good use, what it is being used for.
If you can throw 410 on your card it might protect your rights.
this day in age it is now about $$ being spent to keep your rights than to follow the true fundamentals that we believe in. obviously we shouldn't need to fight for our 2nd amendment rights but unfortunately that isn't the case so it will cost us a little $$.
deadline is soon, so if you can help, do it quick![Beer]
so can we call members of this organization "naggers"?
hehe
Byte Stryke
07-12-2010, 22:27
time to get on my Fire-Suit....
To an extent I Agree that the "Gun-show Loophole" is a problem.[Flame]
Now, that Being said I Do not believe that the solution to this problem is to mandate BCI's for all private party transfers.
I believe that the definitions of "private Party" need to be a little better defined.
In my opinion, if you sell or trade >100 weapons in 365 days you are NOT a private Party.
Hell, I would say if you do more that 50 you should be considered a dealer.
(that's more that 4 guns a month EVERY month)
How to control it?
I Dunno. I never said it was a perfect Idea.
But I Do watch some of the gun grabbers videos on youtube and some of that shit scares me.
One "Collector" says he sells more than 300 SKS a year
and he doesn't care if the buyer might not pass a background check.
Seriously, that is a problem.
Criminals will still steal weapons and sell weapons to other criminals.
But its a far cry better than outlawing private sales.
my 2 cents
when people start wanking about the gun show loophole I just say "what part of 'shall not be infringed' did you not understand?"
or as uncle ted says "The Second Amendment of our Bill of Rights is my concealed weapons permit. PERIOD."
Jumpstart
07-13-2010, 06:58
when people start wanking about the gun show loophole I just say "what part of 'shall not be infringed' did you not understand?"
or as uncle ted says "The Second Amendment of our Bill of Rights is my concealed weapons permit. PERIOD."
My sentiments exactly.
when people start wanking about the gun show loophole I just say "what part of 'shall not be infringed' did you not understand?"
or as uncle ted says "The Second Amendment of our Bill of Rights is my concealed weapons permit. PERIOD."
You nailed it.
sniper_tim
07-13-2010, 21:25
In my opinion, if you sell or trade >100 weapons in 365 days you are NOT a private Party.
who's to say it is 100, 50, or even 5? The number of "criminals" stopped from background checks is a joke and at the expense of law abiding citizens. I can sell mary kay products, baseball bats, compound bows, <your hobby here>, out of my house all day long without a license, why would i need a license to sell guns? Have the crime rates decreased since the feds started licensing gun dealers? I suspect they have increased.
One of the major news organizations (maybe fox) had a big article on the recent supreme courts decision for chicago and their handgun bans. they had lots of statistics, which were extremely interesting. For instance, CA gun laws are basically a whole book in themselves, where as CO is a couple pages. CO only has 1-2 deaths more a year per capita than CA, so obviously the laws are not saving lives. The reasoning behind the laws are to "protect" the public.
I'm not too big on public education, however education has proven to be a bigger factor the bans/licensing, just look at the hunter education program, accidental deaths have fallen to near 0 since it's inception.
cheers,
Tim
Byte Stryke
07-13-2010, 22:17
when people start wanking about the gun show loophole I just say "what part of 'shall not be infringed' did you not understand?"
or as uncle ted says "The Second Amendment of our Bill of Rights is my concealed weapons permit. PERIOD."
who in the fuck said anything about carry concealed permits?
Try and focus Guys...
I'm talking about the wankers that sell to 300+ SKS er whatever to people they KNOW are criminals at gun shows and hide under the private party laws.
some people are so anti gun control that it becomes an anti gun logic.
no one is saying that legal citizens would be "infringed".
Im Saying that if you sell 40 guns a month, you are probably doing this shit full time as a business and should have some sort of oversight. not that you cannot sell guns, but that you aren't a private party anymore, you are a Business.
I agree with that. You can only sell so many cars a year before you are considered a dealer. I don't have any suggestions about where to start drawing any lines though.
Elhuero was just directly quoting Ted Nuget. He knows this isn't about concealed carry, but the quote holds true either way.
And so in turn you support registering every gun? How else would you know how many a person sells privately? Yeah no thanks. Unfortunately there are idiots who could care less who they sell to and are all about the green. How about punishing the actual criminals severely instead of taking steps to removing our rights and making us the criminals.
How about instead of trying to do this register BS we just keep dangerous criminals in prison/jail. If they are a big enough danger to society that if they get a firearm in there hands they are going to hurt someone, than why are they out in the first place?
So your saying if someone sells off their lifelong collection and it is more than 50 firearms in a month, than they need to be considered a dealer and subject themselves to the govt. regulations that go along with it?
You are both missing the point. First, it would be difficult to track private sales without registration. That doesn't mean that it is impossible.
Selling a large collection one time is different than selling large quantities of guns, consistently, over a certain period of time. Also, just because you were selling a collection of guns (for whatever reason), doesn't mean that you are limited to selling them to private parties.
Anyway, this is all moot, because the point that should be focused on isn't quantity at all, but purpose. If you are selling guns to turn a profit for income, then you are a dealer. Sure everyone wants to sell their gun for the best price they can get, but that doesn't necessarily make it "income." If you're selling 300 guns a month, it's not just because you are fickle; it's because you are trying to make a living off of dealing guns.
ChunkyMonkey
07-13-2010, 23:18
Im Saying that if you sell 40 guns a month for profit, you are probably doing this shit full time as a business and should have some sort of oversight. not that you cannot sell guns, but that you aren't a private party anymore, you are a Business.
There, fixed it for you. I love buy and sell guns! Quite more often than I want to admit - I don't do it for profit.
Byte Stryke
07-13-2010, 23:24
How about instead of trying to do this register BS we just keep dangerous criminals in prison/jail. If they are a big enough danger to society that if they get a firearm in there hands they are going to hurt someone, than why are they out in the first place?
So your saying if someone sells off their lifelong collection and it is more than 50 firearms in a month, than they need to be considered a dealer and subject themselves to the govt. regulations that go along with it?
And so in turn you support registering every gun? How else would you know how many a person sells privately? Yeah no thanks. Unfortunately there are idiots who could care less who they sell to and are all about the green. How about punishing the actual criminals severely instead of taking steps to removing our rights and making us the criminals.
what Im Saying is that they guy(s) at the gunshows that are selling their Lifelong collections of 500 Guns for the 15th time this year that blatantly violate the Known ineligibles rule are bringing Bad heat and ARE part of the problem. I understand that criminals will get their guns wherever they can.
and No... I have NEVER said anything about registering guns, stop putting words in my mouth.
Paranoid Freaks...
I'm Talking about a guy with a VA License at a Gun show in Cheyenne with 50 NIB AKs 75 NIB Glocks etc...
you know... the Guys in the Huge Moving van with their "Collections"
Its not hard to pick them out.
I agree with that. You can only sell so many cars a year before you are considered a dealer. I don't have any suggestions about where to start drawing any lines though.
Elhuero was just directly quoting Ted NugeNt. He knows this isn't about concealed carry, but the quote holds true either way.
So somehow, watching a guy that unloads a ton of New in Box weapons for sale at a gun show and Selling to a guy that Says "yeah, I Couldn't pass a BCI, So I figure I come buy that AK from you" is OK...
an his quote and the responses just reminded me of a Family Guy episode where Lois is running for mayor and simply starts spouting catchphrases and it whips the crowd into a frenzy.
"9/11!"
*CHEERS AND APPLAUSE*
"Uncle Ted!"
*CHEERS AND APPLAUSE*
"Second Amendment!"
*CHEERS AND APPLAUSE*
"Cold Dead Hand!"
*CHEERS AND APPLAUSE*
bobbyfairbanks
07-13-2010, 23:27
and No... I have NEVER said anything about registering guns, stop putting words in my mouth.
Paranoid Freaks...
You posted it and now your getting upset. You asked for it.
Byte Stryke
07-13-2010, 23:41
and No... I have NEVER said anything about registering guns, stop putting words in my mouth.
Paranoid Freaks...
You posted it and now your getting upset. You asked for it.
thing is, I didn't post it.
I Challenge you to show me where I said we need to register weapons.
and I get upset at people trying to make me out to be something I'm not.
See, shit like this...a arguments being made against BCIs, Straw sales suggestions in the sales forums are how stings get started.
So somehow, watching a guy that unloads a ton of New in Box weapons for sale at a gun show and Selling to a guy that Says "yeah, I Couldn't pass a BCI, So I figure I come buy that AK from you" is OK...
No, now you're missing your own point. People trying to shut down gun shows want to do it by requiring back ground checks. Not to put words into Elhuero's mouth, but he was using the quote to voice his opinion on the suggestion of back ground checks; "shall not be infringed."
No one has mentioned back ground checks yet, but this is an old argument and it always comes up. So far, no one is really disagreeing with anyone yet, people are just not completely understanding what the other person is talking about.
Personally, I agree that there should be zero back ground checks, and that everyone who is not incarcerated should have their full rights. If you can't be released into public without your full rights, then maybe you shouldn't be in public at all. However, since that is an extremely complex issue, and will never be addressed from this angle, it's futile to talk about it so I didn't bring it up.
Byte Stryke
07-13-2010, 23:50
No, now you're missing your own point. People trying to shut down gun shows want to do it by requiring back ground checks. Not to put words into Elhuero's mouth, but he was using the quote to voice his opinion on the suggestion of back ground checks; "shall not be infringed."
No one has mentioned back ground checks yet, but this is an old argument and it always comes up. So far, no one is really disagreeing with anyone yet, people are just not completely understanding what the other person is talking about.
Personally, I agree that there should be zero back ground checks, and that everyone who is not incarcerated should have their full rights. If you can't be released into public without your full rights, then maybe you shouldn't be in public at all. However, since that is an extremely complex issue, and will never be addressed from this angle, it's futile to talk about it so I didn't bring it up.
my point is that if you knowingly sell to someone trying to circumvent the "somewhat reasonable" law then there is a problem...
I Agree we don't need to go into jail sentences etc... but I really don't believe a bankrobber or Gangbanger needs that kind of open door access and the dumbshits selling at these shows that do it on tape and get caught make it harder for the legitimate owners.
it kinda makes me wonder, Ive done quite a few BCIs in the last few years... I dont see what the major point against it is really...
"Are ya a crook?" Nope...
OK We are going to check it, go to McDonald's and come back.
Here ya go.
Unless of course you are a psycho that cant keep his hands to himself when hes drunk because mommy didn't hug you. Then this would make it a tad harder to get a firearm.. as should be.
bobbyfairbanks
07-14-2010, 08:01
It doesnt work!!!!!!!!!
You are hopoing some kind of checks and balance will save you from worring about a bad guy with a gun. Guess what he will get them anyway. I shall not be infringed upon means alot to people. So until you have thought a little more about that I wouldnt post topics like this. all it does is get you upset since you are acting like a chicago mom thinking every thing is bon as long as no one can have guns.
Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, however I was asserting that registration was the only way I could see private sales being regulated to make sure someone was only selling X amount of guns per year. Or would you prefer a team of ATF agents sweeping every gunshow looking for private sellers and arresting, at their discretion, those who violate?
Also, if you say it isn't impossible to regulate without registration Stuart I would love to be enlightened. A punchcard or something maybe...[ROFL2]
and I get upset at people trying to make me out to be something I'm not.
Does it really happen that often?
You're advocating gun control and resorting to name calling here...think these fellas will play nice?
Bill of sale is registering a gun, but it could be used to track sales. I'm against bill of sale though. The other way is an income audit. If you are making an extra $5,000 a year over your salary job, and you also happen to sell 40 guns a month at gun shows, that is a strong indication that you are selling firearms for profit.
Byte Stryke, I understand what you are saying, but I think that your gripe is with shady dealers, and not necessarily gun show stuff. There are shady salesmen of all kinds (like car dealers) that will rip people off and don't care who they sell to as long as they are making a buck. That is an unfortunate reality with any free market system. Talking about gun shows is kind of dangerous ground because everyone else thinks you are suggesting limiting people's Second Amendment Rights, when instead you are looking for ways to weed out shady sales people, who just so happen to be giving gun owners a bad rap because they're con artists who sell guns instead of vitamins or pyramid schemes.
I think a lot of people need to relax a little and look again at what Byte Stryke is trying to say here. My conclusion is that yes, there is an issue with shady sellers out there, but they won't be weeded out by limiting gun rights.
OgenRwot
07-14-2010, 10:06
Yeah the "Gun show loophole" brings bad press...but so what?
I don't think anybody that goes to the gun shows with the intent to make a profit is thinking, "I'm gonna sell all of these to criminals today".
Byte Stryke
07-14-2010, 14:10
yeah... and now I begin to see why this site has the names it does in certain circles....
It's OK, Really.
:D
bobbyfairbanks
07-14-2010, 16:28
Wow
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.