Thermal Vs. NV

[BigBear]

Weapon mounted only. (No goggles, monoculars, etc)


Which would you prefer and WHY?

Thanks. [Beer]

[cowboykjohnson]

Thermal, It will work with absolutely no light. They both have advantages and disadvantages so why not get both?[Tooth]

Got a buddy in the marines that likes his thermal on the Humvee .50 but after a long burst you can't see jack through the scope because the barrel is so hot.

[BigBear]

Rgr that Cowboy.

I was thinking that the actual picture in high end thermals is great... I can't really find anything "wrong" with them.

Then I got to see some NV... the last time I looked through NV it was the old first gens and I was not impressed. These new ones are amazing, but you must have some sort of light source...

Eventually I'd like to pick up a pair of one or the other and was just getting some thoughts of people out there.

I do lean towards thermals since they are activated by heat and can see through some fog, smoke, etc... I wonder what teh battery life in both are...

Also, with NV's you can sort of differentiate between two people (seeing patches or wapons loadout if enough light is present)... with thermals, it gets a little harder since you're working with a greyscale...

[Irving]

Well, under circumstances where you have ZERO light to work with, you are probably going to be fighting in a cave, building, or some other close quarters area right? So then just get an IR light on the front of your rifle and you're good to go.

Someone correct me if you can't use IR and NV together.

[BigBear]

You are correct Stu. But remember that adding an IR illuminator will add weight to your rifle... albeit a few ounces.

Don't know. In talking with some other folks, this seems to be a very personal choice for people.

Some LOVE NV and will never use thermal and vice versa.

[275RLTW]

Depends on the application. Fighting house to house, romm to room: NV with IR to illum (on PEQ-2 already carried). Observation, distance, or hardened targets: thermal like the AN/PAS 13. A 5.56 platform doesn't need thermal (too bulky, slow to operate and acquire,heavier), implying that it should go on better suited platforms (M240, M2, M81, Gustav, etc...).

[Irving]

So it'd be better to be blind with a light rifle?

[BigBear]

Depends on the application. Fighting house to house, romm to room: NV with IR to illum (on PEQ-2 already carried). Observation, distance, or hardened targets: thermal like the AN/PAS 13. A 5.56 platform doesn't need thermal (too bulky, slow to operate and acquire,heavier), implying that it should go on better suited platforms (M240, M2, M81, Gustav, etc...).

Aren't those PEQs and stuff for LE/MIL only?


So it'd be better to be blind with a light rifle?

No Stu it's not.

[Hoosier]

The newest stuff is hybrid. One scope, does both light amplification and thermal infrared. There's a dial that allows you to adjust how much of each you want, but if you leave it on the middle it blends the two together. IR shows up as shades of red, NV shows up as shades of green.

I think this stuff is still Mil only though. Wish I could have built it when I thought of it.

H.

[SA Friday]

The hybrid stuff is not released into general mil's use as far as I know. I've never seen one of them, and I was working a heavy 6 figure purchase order with Insight Tech before I retired. The latest/greatest on the market last year was new NVGs that gave like a 180 view.

We used primarily NV in Iraq, and then had one or two other personnel using thermals. They both have advantages and both have faults. BTW; current gen NVG's work with starlight and less as a light source. It's actually hard to find a dark enough location for the NVG's to not work.

If I had to choose, I'm taking the NVG's, 4th gen or better.

[BigBear]

Rgr, I would like to try to keep the discussion to something a "regular Joe/civie" can get his hands on.

I've heard of the hybrids and am intrigued, but for the amount of money... I could have a nice car! lol.

[275RLTW]

You can get decent Nv for less than $1K and I've seen PEQ-2's at some gun shows for $1500 mark. PVS 14's can be bought for about $4K.

[mitch]

As far as NV when there is no light: the EE in me says I can make a bag full of tossable quarter-inch square "marbles" one could toss around by the handful to illuminate a urban area with IR. They would last ~ 1 week and be pretty darn inexpensive. Not much help in street fighting, but in CQB one could grenade them thru a few windows and provide plenty of invisible light.

An IR light on the rail would work ok, but the glare from a high gloss surface would blind you. Lots of small points of light would provide better illumination, but could hurt depth of field perception.

[Irving]

As far as NV when there is no light: the EE in me says I can make a bag full of tossable quarter-inch square "marbles" one could toss around by the handful to illuminate a urban area with IR. They would last ~ 1 week and be pretty darn inexpensive. Not much help in street fighting, but in CQB one could grenade them thru a few windows and provide plenty of invisible light.



More info please. Sound very interesting and cool.