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Hoser
07-22-2010, 11:01
I recently ran a class of military shooters, and among other things, ran them through the IDPA classifier, participated in a local steel match, and shot the Arizona State IDPA Championships!

Let me share with you some interesting observations. They get more wound up and nervous in a match than they do in combat! Why? Because they have time to think about it and get tense! I respect these guys' opinions more than ANY so called tactician out there who is sure he knows the tricks to surviving an armed confrontation. These guys have been doing that a bunch lately and think IDPA and IPSC shooting both offer much to the testing phase of ones ability.

On the other hand, they to a man do not agree with the philosophies that either is inherently more practical. All the little things like which way do you turn or where you reload is something we can discuss all day on the range, but on the battlefield, men do things that may not be considered practical or tactical and live because they did it fast, accurately and decisively.

And, there are those who did it "right" by some folks' judgement and still lost. We all have our ideas of how it should be done, and the rules of the existing games are just that, someones' ideas. To say going to any kind of shooting event will teach you technique that will get you killed is idiotic and irresponsible. Guys, it is cool to have your own plan but do not try to pass it off as gospel to the rest of us. A discussion of technique and philosophy seldom ends in agreement, but that does not make the other guy wrong or stupid.
These are just games designed to test your abilities in a very controlled and pre-planned arena. Who wins is your best shot, not your most likely survivor. That can not be tested under the clock. However, those that master executing under the timer are probably more likely to do well in a pressure situation, than someone who chokes, misses or gets procedural penalties. This is a point the boys all agree on, thus they train hard and test themselves in the arena of competition to see what they know and whether they can do it.

Hoser
07-22-2010, 11:08
Those that dont know, Rob is one of the best action shooters in the world. When not shooting matches, he is a firearms trainer. He trains lots of our nation’s military units. Training puts food on his table. He knows of what he speaks.

The next time you think competitions will give you bad habits, read the above quote.

BigBear
07-22-2010, 11:22
Kewl read. I hope to get into some of this 3 gun and all the acrynoms soon.

DocMedic
07-22-2010, 12:00
let me share with you some interesting observations. They get more wound up and nervous in a match than they do in combat! Why? Because they have time to think about it and get tense! I respect these guys' opinions more than ANY so called tactician out there who is sure he knows the tricks to surviving an armed confrontation. These guys have been doing that a bunch lately and think IDPA and IPSC shooting both offer much to the testing phase of ones ability.

LOL, sounds like me my first couple competitions [ROFL1] Don't know about nervous, but man Wound up, Hell I'll still wound up after shooting a stage [Tooth]

SA Friday
07-22-2010, 13:18
Anything that keeps score is a game, but overlooking this skills these shooting games solidify in a shooter comes from ignorance. I've said it before and will say it again; self-defense and combat are dynamic shooting situations. The outcome of both are not qualitative or quantitative. If they were, firearm instructors would all agree and teach the same tactics. Fundamental shooting skills are NOT dynamic, and are quantative and qualitative. These fundamentals are what shooting competitions hone to a fine edge and turn into subconsious response.

cowboykjohnson
07-22-2010, 14:15
I need to find the time and money to make it to some of these matches.

BigBear
07-22-2010, 14:17
I need to find the time and money to make it to some of these matches.

+1... I usually have one or the other, but not at the same time! HAHA.

C Ward
07-22-2010, 19:34
Those that dont know, Rob is one of the best action shooters in the world. When not shooting matches, he is a firearms trainer. He trains lots of our nation’s military units. Training puts food on his table. He know of what he speaks.

The next time you think competitions will give you bad habits, read the above quote.

But , But , But , But the tactical guy's on the internet say that competition is crap and will do nothing but build bad habits and get you killed .

I just think back to a passage in one of Askin's books where he encouraged competitive shooting as it tested weapons handling and decision making under pressure . The thing to remember here is this predates the action shooting sports and He is refering to bullseye shooting .

Another shooter that comes to mind is Kyle Lamb who is also a proponent of competitive shooting as a part of a training progam . If that name isn't familiar your not as tactical as you think .

Shooting in competition teaches weapons handling and problem solving under stress and in turn leads to these actions being second nature . Sounds alot like that muscle memory thing doesn't it . This allows the shooter to think about diferrent things when it matters instead of how to drive his weapons when it matters .

I think most of the tactical guy's stay away from competition because there is a ruler so to speak by which everybody is measured and they don't want to be found lacking . I can tell you I am a way beter shooter now than when I got out of the army and had shot expert with everything I shot . To put this in prospective at Hosers rifle match on sunday when I practice I'll be middle of the pack . When I started I was in the bottom third .
The question you have to ask is your ego is more important than learning new skills .