View Full Version : Defensive carry at the range
I think someone posted an article like this one not too long ago. Guy had a silenced .308 that they killed him for.
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Autopsy-results-released-in-rifle-range-shooting/rJo8ianQAEGbqaaNuQJ4Kg.cspx
H.
HBARleatherneck
07-26-2010, 21:06
I allways carry defensively. Especially at the range, if I am shooting with you guys that I know from this forum or Arfcom. I dont trust any of you. To be fair I dont trust anyone.
But, if the guy was shot at some distance or from behind, how would you even know it was coming? the article mentions a 700 in .308. even if they were 50 yards away you wouldnt be prepared for someone to shoot you out of the blue. But, what if they used that rifle to its potential? I dont think there is anyway you could get out of this, unless you stayed home.
theGinsue
07-26-2010, 21:13
According to the story, the guy was shot from a distance. He probably didn't have any idea what was happening until he was shot.
Another reason to go to the range with a partner.
ETA: HBARLeatherneck: Sorry to step all over your post. I took to long to reply and your post came in with similar comments.
That's the problem with going to open ranges outdoors, you never know who might be around. I never shoot alone, I've heard several stories about folks getting shot just for their weapons.
henpecked
07-26-2010, 21:46
In 1990 a guy from boulder went up to left hand canyon. I believe he killed 2 and wounded 3 more. They looked for him for 3 days. If I remember right he said he was with the forest service and wanted to check there guns. They did arrest him.
http://www.boulderdailycamera.com/ex...7/01/24-1.html (http://www.boulderdailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/01/24-1.html)
Shooting rampage
Prison officials later admitted it was a "mistake" to leave Michael G. Bell in a minimum-security prison. If they had realized that before Bell escaped on Aug. 5, 1990, what is believed to be the most violent shooting rampage in Boulder County history might never have taken place.
Eleven days after his escape, Bell robbed a Circle K in Broomfield, murdering night clerk William Brian Lewis, 18, in the process. Five days later, Bell shot and killed Leslie Ross Thomas, 36, in Boulder Canyon.
Then, on Aug. 24, Bell, posing as a park ranger in Lefthand Canyon, asked a group of target shooters to turn over their guns. They did, and Bell opened fire on them, killing Jim Dockus, 20, and Christopher Schilling, 21. Three others were wounded.
More than 100 officers fanned out in the biggest manhunt ever in the county. The day of the Lefthand Canyon shootings, Bell was arrested by a sheriff's deputy.
He was charged with 20 counts in the rampage. The death penalty was considered, but it was decided to let Bell plead guilty to the murders and attempted murders. He was sentenced to life in prison without parole for each murder, and 48 years for each attempted murder. He was the first person to be given life without parole under a law enacted in July 1990.
The investigation, arrest and trial of Bell garnered a great deal of media interest - the most in recent years until the Ramsey case, Epp said. Epp described the biggest difference between the media coverage of the Bell case and the current media circus surrounding the Ramsey case. "It was all local media - we didn't have anyone from out of town," said Epp. "And they were helpful."
__________________
If I am shooting with you guys that I know from this forum or Arfcom. I dont trust any of you. To be fair I dont trust anyone.
Very good policy to have, whether with people you know or not. I'm sure everyone's seen the vid of the mother (I think) shooting herself and her son at the range.
As far as the story goes, I'm always bugged out when shooting outside not only because of things like this but also dumbasses who decide walking/biking/riding towards gunshots is an awesome idea.
Byte Stryke
07-27-2010, 00:39
And people wonder why I prefer a Controlled range
it might not be a whole helluva lot but shooting at someplace like family shooting in Cherry Creek, Dragonmans or someplace like it is a far cry better than just going out in the middle of nothing.
Sorry, but there isn't a gun out there worth my life.
ChunkyMonkey
07-27-2010, 01:22
Intentional and accidental shooting had happened in secured Army bases, shooting ranges, gun free zone schools etc etc etc. I'll keep my right and be smart.
How many gun violence occurs during an armed robbery of say...grocery store, a place that each of us visit more often, compare to gun range or open public land?
And for those who go to gun ranges more often than doing his/her groceries, I envy you! [Tooth]
cowboykjohnson
07-27-2010, 09:13
I allways carry defensively. Especially at the range, if I am shooting with you guys that I know from this forum or Arfcom. I dont trust any of you. To be fair I dont trust anyone.
Very good advice! A ton of people aren't right in the head.
HBARleatherneck
07-27-2010, 09:49
i have only shot indoors, a couple times. i would be just as worried indoors. the guy 2 stalls over could wack you. on camera or not.
if someone wants to kill you, you will be dead. it doesnt matter if you have a battallion with you, a team of seals. everyone dies. and it is fairly easy to kill anyone. so, i wouldnt worry about these kind of things too much. and taking friends probably wouldnt help. its not as if everyone forms a perimeter while the other is shooting, just for this circumstance. and even then someone could still shoot you. maybe if your friends had the fortitude to return fire, but you would probably still be dead. death comes for us all.
Man HBAR... party pooper, thanks for the downer, lol.
I do agree though. We are fragile beings. 8lbs of pressure on your spinal column (certain spots) or neck and your dead.
Ya betta b rite wit ur gawd!
Byte Stryke
07-27-2010, 10:13
Sorry I think I missed my point.
what I was trying to say is that it is less likely for someone to pop you at 400 yds just to take your shit if you are at a controlled range.
I fully grasp the concept of "when it's time, it's time."
I just prefer not to make it any easier.
and as far as
I'll keep my right and be smart.
I Never questioned anyone's rights. Please Shoot where you like, Be safe, have fun.
I was simply expressing my preference and the reasons.
I would say that EVERYONE carry if you are out and about, Range, no range, state park shooting, out on a picnic with the wife and kids.
I wasn't trying to make this another argument about right to carry....
why do I even try?
Sorry I think I missed my point.
why do I even try?
Because you care... sometimes peoples' reading comprehension does not lend itself to verbal sparring over the internet... I don't express myself adequatley sometimes either, nor do I always interpret what others are saying equally as well.
But it's all Kewl! [Beer]
StagLefty
07-27-2010, 10:34
verbal sparring over the internet
You have no idea who's on that keyboard-age,wisdom,life experience etc. I really learned that during our unemployment thread !! [Coffee]
HBARleatherneck
07-27-2010, 11:09
maybe, some of us havent slept in years because of ptsd, kids, etc. and we argue with you because we are grumpy bastards. or maybe we are dumbasses who cant let someone else be right.
you choose.
Grumpy Bastards of Co-AR15... I like it!
StagLefty
07-27-2010, 11:20
maybe, some of us havent slept in years because of ptsd, kids, etc. and we argue with you because we are grumpyold bastards. or maybe we areold dumbasses who cant let someone else be right.
you choose.
Fixed it [ROFL1]
"Grumpy Bastards of CO-AR15"
Now THAT is a t-shirt!
hurley842002
07-27-2010, 15:42
I can't imagine going thru life trusting NOBODY, there are a small handfull of people I trust. With that said, I have 40 acres of land way up in the mountains that I usually shoot on, and i'm fairly selective on who gets to go shoot with me.
I can't imagine going thru life trusting NOBODY, there are a small handfull of people I trust. With that said, I have 40 acres of land way up in the mountains that I usually shoot on, and i'm fairly selective on who gets to go shoot with me.
Nice. We've been looking for that too, except we would really like to get over 100 acres - it's a tough find.
Byte Stryke
07-27-2010, 17:37
Shit, This isnt about trust as far as I can see.
I don't even trust my own Mother!
Probably because I know her...
Anyways, smart and polite are just about two sides of the same coin.
I took my AR to have the upper replaced... I carried, why? I am not getting shot so someone can steal my shit. And its not always about the person you are going to see either. (Didn't need it though because Marlin is a GREAT guy) You Might get stopped by someone else entirely. I go to the Mountains, carry, I go shopping, I Carry. I go fishing, I carry...
I Agree that when meeting people from the internet, you have to be careful. you never know when you are going to meet the wrong guy.
To try and spin this into a rights issue when it wasn't one was got my gander up. I had flashbacks of Family Guy again.
as far as the PTSD and Kids...
My 2 year old has been teething so long that he now qualifies as a shark. He gets his own week on Animal planet and everything.[LOL]
The worst part of having PTSD and being on unemployed is you cannot afford to self medicate. Beer makes the voices quiet. More beer makes the faces go away and enough Beer make its so you really just don't give a shit anymore
Carry to a job interview, yes or no?
hurley842002
07-27-2010, 20:25
Carry to a job interview, yes or no?
Carry EVERYWHERE unless not permitted to do so.
I easily could have, but elected not to.
BuffCyclist
07-27-2010, 20:45
Carry EVERYWHERE unless not permitted to do so.
When you say this, do you mean open carry or conceal carry?
I need to get my CCW but down here where I live in New Mexico (in Cloudcroft, a town of 750 people, at 9000 feet where we have bears, elk, mountain lions, cougars, porcupines, etc) open carry is legal anywhere except places that sell liquor (beer and wine only places are okay). I have started going hiking solo lately as I just moved down here and there aren't many people my age (24) to befriend, in fact none that I've met so far as this town is full of late 40's and 50's people. I keep telling myself I need to bring my pistol with me as a safety measure from bears and mountain lions as later in the summer, food gets a bit scarcer for them and they attack hikers more, but I'm not programmed to grab my pistol when I grab my hiking boots, camelbak etc.
And another thing, I'm roughly 6'2" (shorter on Mondays and Tuesdays, [ROFL1]) and 160lbs. There's no space for me to CC under my street clothes without printing, though I haven't tried an IWB. This is causing me a bit of hesitation in getting my CCW, because if I have to buy larger shirts to conceal I just won't carry concealed.
hurley842002
07-27-2010, 20:45
I easily could have, but elected not to.
Good luck on the Job [Beer]
You don't need to buy shirts so big you look like a gangster wanna be to conceal under a shirt. Any properly sized polo would do it. I have a bunch of old polos that are a little short and I have to worry about the shirt lifting while I carry. Guess what? All those shirts are too short. It's not really the size of the shirt, just the length. Well, unless you go out dressed like David Bowie all the time or something.
Thanks Hurley.
Byte Stryke
07-27-2010, 20:57
When you say this, do you mean open carry or conceal carry?
Both/Either
I keep telling myself I need to bring my pistol with me as a safety measure from bears and mountain lions as later in the summer, food gets a bit scarcer for them and they attack hikers more, but I'm not programmed to grab my pistol when I grab my hiking boots, camelbak etc.
Reprogram or feed the Bears, Lions, Criminals, whatevers
though I haven't tried an IWB.
try one. you will probably like it.
I am more the "Very Large" Shirt kinda guy but an IWB holster is starting to look good for me after I get a CCW.
Yeah, I dont have a CCW yet.
I open carry everywhere that wont get me arrested.
priorities
hopefully soon.
[Tooth]
BuffCyclist
07-27-2010, 21:05
You don't need to buy shirts so big you look like a gangster wanna be to conceal under a shirt. Any properly sized polo would do it. I have a bunch of old polos that are a little short and I have to worry about the shirt lifting while I carry. Guess what? All those shirts are too short. It's not really the size of the shirt, just the length. Well, unless you go out dressed like David Bowie all the time or something.
Thanks Hurley.
Perhaps, but I have a 38" chest, so I am between a Small and a Medium in most shirts. Some of my shirts are a bit tighter fitting than others, and the looser shirts are still a bit too tight to have a Glock 23 concealed. Which makes me wonder if I should look into a thinner, CC firearm that would be easier to conceal on my thin frame.
Both/Either
Reprogram or feed the Bears, Lions, Criminals, whatevers
try one. you will probably like it.
I am more the "Very Large" Shirt kinda guy but an IWB holster is starting to look good for me after I get a CCW.
Yeah, I dont have a CCW yet.
I open carry everywhere that wont get me arrested.
priorities
hopefully soon.
[Tooth]
Reprogram it is. I may have to look into an IWB, my problem is that there aren't any firearm shops nearby (that don't suck; Dave's Guns has HORRIBLE reviews) and the only sporting goods store in Alamogordo (a 30 minute drive and the closest "big" town) is Walmart. So if I bought an IWB, I'd have to do it base on reviews and wouldn't get to test one out before buying and possibly wasting money on it.
At the very least, I have been considering lately starting to carry my pistol while driving, as out here it's 16 miles (30 minutes) to work and I don't pass any cars. It's 16 miles (30 minutes) to town from my house and I pass a few cars. If I break down and have to walk to get help, I could be an easy target for a large animal. Or, I could be the chosen as more of a target for a streetside he's-broken-down mugging.
Oh, and did I mention that out here in the boonies, I have limited cell phone reception at my house but don't get reception while driving to work or driving down into town, which not having that lifeline to emergency help greatly increases my want/need of having a truck gun and/or a CC/OC gun.
GreenScoutII
07-27-2010, 21:20
You know, getting shot for my guns is something I have never even thought about while at a shooting range. Well, private ranges anyway. I guess it is a possibility especially if a guy just goes out to the woods.
Dang.... It has always been my experience that shooters are some of the best, most honest, and decent guys I've ever had the pleasure of associating with.
It saddens me to think guys are worried about being shot/robbed by fellow shooters.
Better safe than sorry I guess.
hurley842002
07-27-2010, 21:31
When you say this, do you mean open carry or conceal carry?
I always carry concealed. My GF loves it ever since I got my CCW, I don't drink outside of the home anymore, because i'm always carrying, therefore I get to be DD all the time. Doesn't bother me, I would rather be able to protect myself and my loved ones, than have a beer.
If someone is shooting at you to steal your guns, they aren't a fellow shooter.
rforsythe
07-28-2010, 14:32
You know, getting shot for my guns is something I have never even thought about while at a shooting range. Well, private ranges anyway. I guess it is a possibility especially if a guy just goes out to the woods.
I never thought about it until recently, though I think even at some private ranges out in the middle of nowhere it could be a concern, enough to make me at least carry a pistol on me.
If someone is shooting at you to steal your guns, they aren't a fellow shooter.
True, though I am guessing they aren't interested in being best buds with you at that point regardless.
I always carry concealed. My GF loves it ever since I got my CCW, I don't drink outside of the home anymore, because i'm always carrying, therefore I get to be DD all the time. Doesn't bother me, I would rather be able to protect myself and my loved ones, than have a beer.
I'll have a drink or two over a couple hours but am ever aware that I'm carrying and even if I wasn't concerned with being 100% I would be concerned with getting stopped and risk losing my CCW.
[Pepsi]
HBARleatherneck
07-31-2010, 06:38
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/2-prison-guards-to-face-charges-for-shooting/T7TywdSx-0efWskrT3nupg.cspx?rss=50
they caught them.
Those worthless ass mother fuckers!
I'm very glad they've caught them.
Those guys were cops?
they should be strung up and/or shot.
I'll do it.
Those guys were cops?
they should be strung up and/or shot.
I'll do it.
Normally I'm not a fan of "prison justice", but here I can think of nothing better than putting them into the general population of the prisons they were guards at. I'm sure anyone dick enough to pop a guy in the back from long range, would have made plenty of friends in the big house.
H.
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