View Full Version : Latest AZ immigration: Cartel puts hit on Sheriff
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/02/mexican-drug-cartel-allegedly-puts-price-arizona-sheriffs-head/
I know I've been told by our cinc that we're as secure as we've ever been but this is as close to war as I can remember along that border in my lifetime. It seems like we may actually want to enforce some rules down there. Maybe. If it's not too much of a bother.
Sorry, the feds cannot be bothered with enforcing laws there and won't allow the states to do so either.
Batteriesnare
08-02-2010, 16:06
The Federal government is not responsible for the protection of it's citizens, duh!
[Bang]
trlcavscout
08-02-2010, 16:12
I got my money on the sheriff. If he doesn't make it we replace him with segal[Beer]
But if he's looking for volunteers to end this problem I have vacation days left.
I know our intel community keeps tabs on these cartel idiots. You'd think we'd send some guys over to take care of part of the problem pretty easily.
trlcavscout
08-02-2010, 16:48
I know our intel community keeps tabs on these cartel idiots. You'd think we'd send some guys over to take care of part of the problem pretty easily.
If it was effecting DC or obama we would, but its just a few states effected right? Hell we have more states let's give them a few. And we will penalize anyone who trys to stop them from taking over.
Its an election year and the dems don't want to upset their voter base.
If it was effecting DC or obama we would, but its just a few states effected right? Hell we have more states let's give them a few. And we will penalize anyone who trys to stop them from taking over.
Its an election year and the dems don't want to upset their voter base.
Besides, the Sheriff is probably a conservative, Obooboo figures that's just one less to worry about :)
BPTactical
08-02-2010, 17:25
Wonder if Sheriff Joe needs a few "Deputies".
Regulators lets ride.......
68Charger
08-02-2010, 17:31
Besides, the Sheriff is probably a conservative, Obooboo figures that's just one less to worry about :)
"probably a conservative"... [ROFL1] obviously you haven't heard of Sheriff Joe...
a Google search is in order- he's world famous (at least nationally)
"probably a conservative"... [ROFL1] obviously you haven't heard of Sheriff Joe...
a Google search is in order- he's world famous (at least nationally)
Of course I've heard of him, but it's not like they come right out and say "right wing conservative", so one can only assume :).
I just want to know when there are going to be ,bounties,on illegals.
jason303
08-02-2010, 21:03
The invasion will not end under this administration. These "undocumented workers" are planned to become documented democrats. It's laughable that the "party of the working class" is in fact enabling the ongoing theft of working class jobs.
if the sheriff were killed the mexican flag wavers and the high school walkout anchor babies would rejoice, but it would hurt their cause more than it helps.
the situation is building and growing, and all it will take is one archduke ferdinand incident to ignite.
Byte Stryke
08-02-2010, 22:41
When it ignites, and trust me someone will surely do something stupid to ignite it, I honestly foresee a war on our border.
I don't mean some border patrol agents chasing drug smugglers and illegals.
I mean full on country Vs. Country war.
theGinsue
08-02-2010, 23:01
Sorry, the feds cannot be bothered with enforcing laws there and won't allow the states to do so either.
Don;t know if you heard the news today but (interestingly enough), the Fed's are "cracking down" on 6 "Sanctuary Cities" for (in effect) failing to enforce the limmigration aws [Insert double-take here]. Yes, I said for failing to enforce the immigration laws. But, didn't they just.... and with AZ.... and????..... Okay; I'm confised.
Wonder if Sheriff Joe needs a few "Deputies".
Regulators lets ride.......
Awesome!
When it ignites, and trust me someone will surely do something stupid to ignite it, I honestly foresee a war on our border.
I don't mean some border patrol agents chasing drug smugglers and illegals.
I mean full on country Vs. Country war.
Not with the current Administration sitting in D.C. They'd just turn a blind eye since it isn't politically beneficial do take any action against Mexico.
Don;t know if you heard the news today but (interestingly enough), the Fed's are "cracking down" on 6 "Sanctuary Cities" for (in effect) failing to enforce the limmigration aws [Insert double-take here]. Yes, I said for failing to enforce the immigration laws. But, didn't they just.... and with AZ.... and????..... Okay; I'm confised.
$11 says it's just total BS political posturing.
theGinsue
08-02-2010, 23:15
[Mega Sarcasm] Ya think? [/Mega Sarcasm]
Isn't that really all this Administration has been about? If they really want to do some good for this country, they should leave office (POTUS, and all members of both houses of Congress).
rockhound
08-03-2010, 00:23
i am surprised Joe hasn't been taken out sooner. i think he is doing a great job and i applaud him for standing up for all of us, but he has been walking around with a red dot on his back for years.
he has got a lot of balls, big brass ones
SA Friday
08-03-2010, 00:48
This whole immigration hoard thing has happened before in our history. Ironically enough, I just read about it in my history class a couple of weeks ago. There was a massive influx of Irish and German immigrants in the 1840s and 1850s. They were immigrating because of the famine and depression in Ireland and the civil war in Germany. The influx caused a ton of political strife in the northern US states. "Nativism" became quite an issue in the middle class, and many politicians deserted the Whig political party for the newly designed "American Party". They were also called the "know-nothing" Party as the members were members of a secret society(s) and would regularly respond to questions of the underlying origins of the new party by saying, " I know nothing." The underlying problem back then was the immigrants were all catholics, and the primarily protestant USA was aftaid the immigrants were going to be (or were) more loyal to the Pope than the country. What was really going on was the immigrants were cheaper labor than the already established US work force, and that pissed off a bunch of the middle class. There are way too many similarities between then and now.
So what happened? A few riots, lots of political hub-bub, and then the politicians were mostly absorbed into the Republician party. After a generation or two, the immigrants were just more US citizens and the labor force leveled out. That's about it... The Civil War kinda thinned out the population though in the 1860s, and the industrial revolution really kicked off after that so the labor was needed. So, it took about 20 years to resolve the whole thing.
History does have a tendency to repeat itself. I don't think any war with Mexico will take 7 months though like it did last time, though. It would be nice if the Obamanation would pre-stage some troops down there like Polk did during the last one in 1846.
Wonder if Sheriff Joe needs a few "Deputies".
Regulators lets ride.......
"We work for Mr. Tunstall as regulators. We regulate any stealin' of his property. We're damn good, too. Mr. Tunstall's got a soft spot for runaways, derelicts, vagrant types. But you can't be any geek off the street. Gotta be handy with the steel, if you know what I mean. Earn your keep.
Regulatorrrrsss..... Mount up!"
But seriously, I'll cover my own gas down if anyone wants to carpool and I have all my own firearms and ammo.
DeusExMachina
08-03-2010, 01:46
This whole immigration hoard thing has happened before in our history. Ironically enough, I just read about it in my history class a couple of weeks ago. There was a massive influx of Irish and German immigrants in the 1840s and 1850s. They were immigrating because of the famine and depression in Ireland and the civil war in Germany. The influx caused a ton of political strife in the northern US states. "Nativism" became quite an issue in the middle class, and many politicians deserted the Whig political party for the newly designed "American Party". They were also called the "know-nothing" Party as the members were members of a secret society(s) and would regularly respond to questions of the underlying origins of the new party by saying, " I know nothing." The underlying problem back then was the immigrants were all catholics, and the primarily protestant USA was aftaid the immigrants were going to be (or were) more loyal to the Pope than the country. What was really going on was the immigrants were cheaper labor than the already established US work force, and that pissed off a bunch of the middle class. There are way too many similarities between then and now.
So what happened? A few riots, lots of political hub-bub, and then the politicians were mostly absorbed into the Republician party. After a generation or two, the immigrants were just more US citizens and the labor force leveled out. That's about it... The Civil War kinda thinned out the population though in the 1860s, and the industrial revolution really kicked off after that so the labor was needed. So, it took about 20 years to resolve the whole thing.
History does have a tendency to repeat itself. I don't think any war with Mexico will take 7 months though like it did last time, though. It would be nice if the Obamanation would pre-stage some troops down there like Polk did during the last one in 1846.
Basically, what you're saying is, in a generation (or less), they will all be Americans? Who'da thunk it? Its already happening, and the quicker they learn English, become a citizen, and pay taxes, the better.
There's already plenty of Mexican families that don't know a word of Spanish, their family has been here so long and have been so absorbed into the culture. Like you said, history repeats itself (talking to all you Irish/Italian/German/Russian-Americans), our families did the same.
The real issue are the drug cartels, I don't think the immigration issue is the worst thing about Mexico right now.
Jumpstart
08-03-2010, 07:27
This whole immigration hoard thing has happened before in our history. Ironically enough, I just read about it in my history class a couple of weeks ago. There was a massive influx of Irish and German immigrants in the 1840s and 1850s. They were immigrating because of the famine and depression in Ireland and the civil war in Germany. The influx caused a ton of political strife in the northern US states. "Nativism" became quite an issue in the middle class, and many politicians deserted the Whig political party for the newly designed "American Party". They were also called the "know-nothing" Party as the members were members of a secret society(s) and would regularly respond to questions of the underlying origins of the new party by saying, " I know nothing." The underlying problem back then was the immigrants were all catholics, and the primarily protestant USA was aftaid the immigrants were going to be (or were) more loyal to the Pope than the country. What was really going on was the immigrants were cheaper labor than the already established US work force, and that pissed off a bunch of the middle class. There are way too many similarities between then and now.
So what happened? A few riots, lots of political hub-bub, and then the politicians were mostly absorbed into the Republician party. After a generation or two, the immigrants were just more US citizens and the labor force leveled out. That's about it... The Civil War kinda thinned out the population though in the 1860s, and the industrial revolution really kicked off after that so the labor was needed. So, it took about 20 years to resolve the whole thing.
History does have a tendency to repeat itself. I don't think any war with Mexico will take 7 months though like it did last time, though. It would be nice if the Obamanation would pre-stage some troops down there like Polk did during the last one in 1846.
Tell your "teacher" this:
The comparsion is apples to mangos.
1. Immigrants in those waves came across 3000 miles of physical barrier.
2. Immigrants from Europe came from over 46 (guesstimate)? DIFFERENT European countries, speaking 46 DIFFFERENT languages. Not predominately ONE language.
3. Immigrants in those waves had a 3 month journey by boat.
4. Immigrants in those waves came from small waves of 100,00 for example from Sweden, and they were essentially done. Illegals (from our southern border)come over in 100,000 plus in JUST ONE quarter IN one border sector. Multiple that. This happens month after month, day after day, decade upon decade. That is a tsunamie of epic proportions.
5. Compare immigration numbers from then, from Europe and now from Mexico and Latin/South America. It will blow your mind.
6. We share a border with the country with the most number of "immigrants"- Mexico. They can theoretically vote in BOTH countries.
7. Mexico had a claim by default to a large chunk of land in the USA, and are taught in their schools (and ours in the USA now) it was "stolen". (Even though Mexico got fair market value for a land CLAIM they couldn't even control, nor take care of, and only had the CLAIM for 14 years by DEFAULT.)
8. Immigrants from Europe didn't step right into free Medical, free housing, free food subsidizies, free education.
9. Immigrants from Europe didn't have everything printed in their language. They had to learn the language of the land- English.
10. Immigration from Europe in the late 19th century and imperialism from Mexico/Latin and South America in the 21st centuryare totally 2 different things.
SA Friday
08-03-2010, 12:25
Tell your "teacher" this:
The comparsion is apples to mangos.
1. Immigrants in those waves came across 3000 miles of physical barrier.
2. Immigrants from Europe came from over 46 (guesstimate)? DIFFERENT European countries, speaking 46 DIFFFERENT languages. Not predominately ONE language.
3. Immigrants in those waves had a 3 month journey by boat.
4. Immigrants in those waves came from small waves of 100,00 for example from Sweden, and they were essentially done. Illegals (from our southern border)come over in 100,000 plus in JUST ONE quarter IN one border sector. Multiple that. This happens month after month, day after day, decade upon decade. That is a tsunamie of epic proportions.
5. Compare immigration numbers from then, from Europe and now from Mexico and Latin/South America. It will blow your mind.
6. We share a border with the country with the most number of "immigrants"- Mexico. They can theoretically vote in BOTH countries.
7. Mexico had a claim by default to a large chunk of land in the USA, and are taught in their schools (and ours in the USA now) it was "stolen". (Even though Mexico got fair market value for a land CLAIM they couldn't even control, nor take care of, and only had the CLAIM for 14 years by DEFAULT.)
8. Immigrants from Europe didn't step right into free Medical, free housing, free food subsidizies, free education.
9. Immigrants from Europe didn't have everything printed in their language. They had to learn the language of the land- English.
10. Immigration from Europe in the late 19th century and imperialism from Mexico/Latin and South America in the 21st centuryare totally 2 different things.
It was an online class, and there was no discussion with the Professor (college class, not high school). I'm not regurgatating some uber liberal professor's viewpoint here. I'm talking about basic facts. Much of the above is incorrect.
1820s the immigration rate was 1% of the US population, 1830s the rate rose to 4%. From 1845 to 1855, the immigration rate quadrupled with three million immigrants entering the US; approximately 15% of the total population. This still remains the the largest immigration influx to date by numbers and by percentage. Some places, like Boston and New York, were hit the hardest by the immigration. Boston alone had an increase of 200% of foreign-born VOTERS (mostly Irish) from 1850 to 1855. In the same time period in Boston, the natural born voters showed an increase of 14%.
The written and spoken languages of saturated areas of German immigrants was completely German. Street signs and conversations were in German. In the predomanently Irish and German areas, pubs and bars started popping up everywhere. Much of the Irish and German social life in their native countries revolved around interaction at pubs and bars. The US was in the throws of terperance at the time and this rise in alcohol consumption and taverns drastically contradicted with the US trends of the time period.
During this time of influx, Boston alone saw an increase of expenditures of the poor relief triple. Cincinnati's overall crime rate tripled and it's murder rate increased over 7 times the normal rate. (Liberty, Equality, Power: A History of the American People, 5th Edition, 2008)
On a side note, my mother's family immigrated from Germany in the late 19th century. They settled in NE and the predomanent language in the town was German. It was spoken/written in the town and by most of the resident's households until the beginning of WWI. Fearing retrobution, they switched to English. To this day, Norwegian and French (Canadian) are spoken in many households in the northern bordering states. More than a few signs are in English and French. I lived in Grand Forks, ND for 6 years as a teen, and this is where my father is from. I used Norwegian at my first job a little, and my Grandmother spoke French in their house as it was their primary language. There are currently at least two neighborhoods in Denver where the primary languages are not English. One is Somalian and the other is Russian.
The immigrations of the the 1840-50s and the current Latino influx ARE two different things, in specificity. They are not, however, different in overall occurance. Overlooking the relevant generalities between the two is self-serving and contrary to good science and critical thinking.
I'm not saying the illegals coming over the border from Mexico isn't a serious problem. I'm saying it's a problem this country has gone through before and survived. The reasons we survived it previously and stemmed the tide of immigrants are extremely relevant in our current situation. Immigration stopped because the Irish famine and the German Revolution stopped. It wasn't because we stopped allowing immigration or built a big wall. It stopped because the underlying destruction that caused the immigration stopped. How can this NOT be an important view point of the current problem?
I'm not saying the illegals coming over the border from Mexico isn't a serious problem. I'm saying it's a problem this country has gone through before and survived. The reasons we survived it previously and stemmed the tide of immigrants are extremely relevant in our current situation. Immigration stopped because the Irish famine and the German Revolution stopped. It wasn't because we stopped allowing immigration or built a big wall. It stopped because the underlying destruction that caused the immigration stopped. How can this NOT be an important view point of the current problem?
The idea that modern Mexican illegal immigration and historical European legal immigration are similar is patently false.
The Irish, German, etc. immigrants of the 19th and early 20th centuries did so WITHIN the law. My Greatgrandparents had to undergo medical exams, interviews, take an oath, etc. before they were ever let off of Elis Island. Obviously the historical immigration process was more simple than it is today, but there was still a legal process.
That's vastly different than just walking across the border. TB and various other third world diseases are growing here because there's no way to examine ILLEGAL immigrants. Likewise there's no way to determine whether or not illegal immigrants have been convicted of rape, or any other crime. Allowing the entire Mexican lower class to just walk across the border without any sort of control is without historical precedent and extremely detrimental to the United States.
I'm all for legal immigration. I even think it should be made easier. I realize that like all Americans (excepting Indians) my ancestors were immigrants. But, unless they were among the first colonists to arrive, they did so within a legal structure.
I have a feeling with as many European immigrants we received at the time, we likely weren't sending all that many back. Also, I think the intent of SAFriday's post is well above any of the arguments posted so far. All the talk of legal vs. illegal, etc, is all a moot point. None of those points really matter, with respect to his observation, because when you boil it down to basics, what you have is an influx of people from a different country entering this country. That's it. That's the whole point.
I have a feeling with as many European immigrants we received at the time, we likely weren't sending all that many back. Also, I think the intent of SAFriday's post is well above any of the arguments posted so far. All the talk of legal vs. illegal, etc, is all a moot point. None of those points really matter, with respect to his observation, because when you boil it down to basics, what you have is an influx of people from a different country entering this country. That's it. That's the whole point.
I don't agree with that premise at all. Legal vs illegal DOES matter. Systematic, controlled, immigration within a legal framework is COMPLETELY different than completely uncontrolled illegal immigration.
Any attempt to create the premise that 'legal and illegal immigration are essentially the same' is an attempt to create that argument that the people who are against illegal immigration are essentially xenophobic or racist. Its a dishonest intellectual manuver, which is pretty common in liberal circles (in the liberal media, particularly).
I'm not trying to make the case that the illegal immigration is in any way okay. I'm just saying that regardless of the legal process, it boils down to the same thing. Let's be honest though, if every Mexican came here legally, people would still be pissed off about it.
Let's be honest though, if every Mexican came here legally, people would still be pissed off about it.
It didn't take a genius to see the destination of your premise. 'People' are racists. I've already said what I think of that, 'intellectually dishonest' being the nicest thing I could come up with.
Its about law and order, not about hating brown people. Maybe you should put down the La Raza newsletter.
I'm not trying to defend the Mexicans. If you don't think that people were "racist" and "xenophobic" about all the German, Irish, Chinese, etc immigrants back then, then you are only kidding yourself.
Quit assuming that I'm trying to damn the debate by condemning the anti-immigration crowd. I'm not. It IS true that people would still be pissed if every Mexican to come here were legal (assuming the numbers were the same). It's just the way that it works. In 100 years when people immigrate here in mass from some where else, people will be upset about it then to. It's just the way that people are and has no bearing on the discussion of the similarities of one immigration wave to the next.
I know! Those damn Pollocks, always ruining my sammichs's!!!
In all seriousness, I whole heartedly believe the problem isn't that they are brown or the numbers. I believe the problem is that they (subjective generaliztion) refuse to assimilate into our country, our culture.
Yes, 100-200 years ago it was the same thing. Heck they STILL have "German town" or "China town" in large cities, etc. However, over all, in my experience, most of the older immigrants (German, Irish, Italian, et al) tried their hardest to assimilate and to raise their children with American values and instill the work ethic to acheive the American Dream. Heck, this country was BUILT on immigration (and assimilation for the betterment of ALL).
New immigrants not respecting our flag/culture, our language, wanting special priviledges in schools, feeling entitled to benefits that the average American cannot partake in is just wrong in my opinion.
I think that's the bottom line.
I'm all for legal immigration. I even think it should be made easier.How would you make it easier?
ChunkyMonkey
08-03-2010, 15:31
How would you make it easier?
For once, remove quota. Just like the affirmative action - quota is racist! Leave the bar set high and remove the damn quota I'd say.
In the 80s, US welcome anyone with an investment of minimum $500000 into rural area or $1000000 into urban, or anyone with graduate degree or special skill etc. In short, US was absorbing the most successful and brightest people of the world. Now, we are putting quota per country of origin to be more 'fair'. SUCH a BS.
How would you make it easier?
I think most of the requirements for citizenship are spot-on, I just think that the quotas should be increased (Edit: or removed altogether as in the post above) to allow more people to immigrate without the seemingly infinite wait in line.
ChunkyMonkey
08-03-2010, 15:43
To read more about quota per region/country...
http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_5092.html
ChunkyMonkey
08-03-2010, 15:46
I think most of the requirements for citizenship are spot-on, I just think that the quotas should be increased (Edit: or removed altogether as in the post above) to allow more people to immigrate without the seemingly infinite wait in line.
I think we are on two different page though. Quota removal doesn't mean unlimited numbers. As the current law stands, they lowered the requirement so much that just about everyone is qualified to be US immigrant, then they use the quota as the flood gate.
I meant to say remove this whole quota system and go back to the high requirement system established previously.
I think we are on two different page though. Quota removal doesn't mean unlimited numbers. As the current law stands, they lowered the requirement so much that just about everyone is qualified to be US immigrant, then they use the quota as the flood gate.
I meant to say remove this whole quota system and go back to the high requirement system established previously.
Sounds better than my idea. I've got a couple friends who are immigrants but beyond their stories about its difficulty (derived from the long queues primarily) I'm generaly ignorant.
Byte Stryke
08-03-2010, 16:03
I'm not trying to make the case that the illegal immigration is in any way okay. I'm just saying that regardless of the legal process, it boils down to the same thing. Let's be honest though, if every Mexican came here legally, people would still be pissed off about it.
I wouldn't. Hell, I'd help em move in.
In all seriousness, I whole heartedly believe the problem isn't that they are brown or the numbers. I believe the problem is that they (subjective generaliztion) refuse to assimilate into our country, our culture.
Yes, 100-200 years ago it was the same thing. Heck they STILL have "German town" or "China town" in large cities, etc. However, over all, in my experience, most of the older immigrants (German, Irish, Italian, et al) tried their hardest to assimilate and to raise their children with American values and instill the work ethic to acheive the American Dream. Heck, this country was BUILT on immigration (and assimilation for the betterment of ALL).
New immigrants not respecting our flag/culture, our language, wanting special priviledges in schools, feeling entitled to benefits that the average American cannot partake in is just wrong in my opinion.
I think that's the bottom line.
you know, I Looked and not counting that they didn't have the internet then, I couldn't find any cases where Irish or German Immigrants took down American Flags from government Buildings and replaced them with Flags from their native Countries.
but then again I am just a stupid Gringo (<--Racial Slur)
You know what has my Feathers ruffled?
I am a Tax-Paying law-abiding citizen that immigrated my wife here LEGALLY.
I am Unemployed through no fault of my own.
Because of my wife's immigration status we are not eligible for any social support. But if you call the food-stamp office or WIC I bet you can "Marko el Dos".
We checked on Section 8 housing and its "currently unavailable because of the sudden influx from Arizona."
are you gawdamned kidding me?
I'm not pissed because of where they are from, I Dont care if you are an illegal from Mexico, China or Canada or from the fucking fairy kingdom . If you immigrated here legally, Love ya for it, welcome aboard, let me know if you need a hand moving in.
BUT
Don't come here against our Laws, abuse our systems while avoiding our taxes, riding on our aid programs while sending BILLIONS in remittance home for your comfy retirement.
Then call me a racist because I get angry that I have to pay for it and yet cant use it when I Need it. I Don't care if you are fucking green with Pink Polka-dots and immigrated from oompa-land, follow the laws!
Mexico, one of the best documented examples of migration and remittances, received remittance inflows of almost 24 Billion US$ in 2007, 95% of which originated in the US.
TWENTY FOUR BILLION U.S. DOLLARS (http://tinyurl.com/2femue9)
Who wants to bet on how much of that was taxed?
Who wants to be on How many of those workers were on OUR Assistance programs?
we are being fucked without the courtesy of a reach-around under the guise of "need."
what a bunch of horseshit.
[Rant2]
/rant
I think most of the requirements for citizenship are spot-on, I just think that the quotas should be increased (Edit: or removed altogether as in the post above) to allow more people to immigrate without the seemingly infinite wait in line.
Ah, ok. I thought you meant actually making the process easier or the criteria looser rather than making it available to more people.
And I thought the investment route that MB888 mentioned was still in place. I guess not. Sorry, sis.
ChunkyMonkey
08-03-2010, 16:13
And I thought the investment route that MB888 mentioned was still in place. I guess not. Sorry, sis.
It is available. But why doing it that way if you could just pretend you work for Viva La Mexico grocery store and get work visa through it - pay the owner much less money and walk away with green cards for the family.
Oh hell, with the federal govt don't give a shit about the immigration law, why even do it at all, just work under the table, live in a section 8 housing, shop with your food stamp, and go to your county hospital for any of your medical need. [Bang]
Ah, ok. I thought you meant actually making the process easier or the criteria looser rather than making it available to more people.
And I thought the investment route that MB888 mentioned was still in place. I guess not. Sorry, sis.
As someone with firsthand knowledge, if I'm not mistaken, what are your ideas? Your oppinion is certainly as valuable as mine, if not more so with your additional knowledge on the subject.
Byte Stryke
08-03-2010, 16:34
I think they should make it easier for everyone.
Federal CBI
Birth Cert
Passport
Do the paperwork
be ineligible for assistance for 4 years and pay them Taxes.
its called a "Conditional Visa"
Seriously my wife could be deported for just about anything.
She has a conditional visa, its like probation on steroids.
The INS Could seriously ask her to come in for a drug test or ask her to account for any period of time.
Fail... Bye.
Do not pass go, do not collect $200 food stamps, Do NOT reapply for a visa.
Is it perfect? Nope. but its got to be better than the system we have now.
But I Do agree that Senator Boifuker (D) Doesn't give a rat's ass as long as his lawn gets cut, the house is clean and the pool boy comes on Friday.
As someone with firsthand knowledge, if I'm not mistaken, what are your ideas? Your oppinion is certainly as valuable as mine, if not more so with your additional knowledge on the subject.
Well, I took the marriage route to a green card and citizenship so I've only got experience of that. And to be honest apart from the length of time involved it was smooth sailing all the way. When I went for my final interview before getting my permanent green card I couldn't find my birth certificate so I had to take a facsimile instead, and that was the closest I ever came to having a problem but the DHS officer let it slide.
One place where I think quotas should be kept in place though is in terms of families joining a green card holder or naturalized citizen. Spouses and children are all well and good, but my sister could get a green card because I'm a US citizen, only if there are any spaces left over after people higher up the list have had their chance. I love my sister, but I don't think it should be an automatic right that she can get a green card simply because of my status.
One thing I've noticed is the difference between the citizenship tests in the US and the UK. I was asked six questions and I can honestly say I could have answered five of them the day I stepped off the QE2 in New York, let alone after having lived here for seven years. Then last year I had a look at the UK test when I was back there and it was substantially harder.
Should the US test be made harder? I don't know. I'm an American citizen because I love this country and I wanted to show that in a more concrete way than just living here. If I'd wanted, I could have lived here for the rest of my life as a permanent resident, renewing my green card every ten years; my mother-in-law has. The romantic in me would like to think that everyone else who took the oath with me was doing it for the same reasons.
rockhound
08-03-2010, 18:20
the initial waves of European, immigrants were easier to assimilate because the wanted to learn the language and stood in line to become legal citizens and they were proud to be here. there were jobs and the country was expanding. we needed the labor.
the wave of illegal Mexican immigrants have no desire to assimilate they have no desire to pay taxes and many of them are here fleeing the jails of Mexico. they do not wish to learn our language, pay taxes, or become contributing memebers of society. they believe the land north of Mexico belongs to them and they have every intention of trying to take it back.
they are moving into a country that does not have the room to absorb them nor provide jobs.
an interview on KHOW last season with the border patrol inidcated that they only catch one in ten that cross illegally and that 70% of the ones they catch are some type of serious criminal. so we can assume that at least 6 of the ones that cross are also criminals. whether that assumption holds water or not remains to be seen, but many of these people are involved in illegal drug trade in this country. the gangs such as los zetas make most of our US gangs look like choir boys.
i lived 11 miles from the Mexican border as a kid and even back in the early 70s we could watch them cross the orange groves at night. this wave has been going on for a long, long time.
the immigrants of old are not comparable in any way to immigrants coming in illegally today. to assume they are is shortsighted.
Hitman 6
08-03-2010, 18:44
The closed minded rebel in me sees this as a full on declaration of war. Someone explain to me why I'm wrong, cause apparently no one else agrees with me.
BPTactical
08-03-2010, 20:56
You know one of the best immigration stories I ever heard was a few years ago when they were pushing "English as a Second Language". I was listening to the radio and an older gal that was 60-70 called in and relayed what her mother had taught her when she was young. Seems her parents came from Italy in the early 1900's and went through the whole Ellis Island routine & became citizens. She said she asked her mom why they didnt observe Italian customs and never spoke Italian anymore. She said her mom firmly told her: " Because we are no longer Italians, we are Americans now and it is a privilege to be here. We have an obligation to learn their language and way of life."
It seems that far to many that were not born here have forgotten this. Hell, an assload of the ones that were born here have.
We need to remind them of this somehow........
"Assimilate" has many meanings.
SA Friday
08-03-2010, 21:13
the immigrants of old are not comparable in any way to immigrants coming in illegally today. to assume they are is shortsighted.
OK, lets try again. As I said in my earlier posts, I agree completely that the macro view of the two have their differences and those differences are problematical. I agree the current wave of immigrants, being illegal, do cause problems unique to the current times. I can't deny that at all, nor have I took this as a stance. What a few of you have missed is what Stuart understood. There is something to be learned from the big picture of the previous influx to apply to the current influx of immigration, illegal or not. There ARE comparable similarities, and to deny that is just selective listening/reading.
As for the taxes, I'm pretty sure there wasn't an extablished income tax until the Civil War in the 1860's, so realistically, the immigrants of the 1840s and 50s didn't pay income taxes initially either.
I haven't inferred anyone in this discussion is racist, or a right winged overly-conservative POS, or for the most part unreasonably upset over nothing. What I'm trying to get through here is what our recent history has to show us as to how to potentially resolve this issue and what to expect in the future.
Nothing is black and white in this issue. Unfortunately, there is too many taking a black and white stance in this whole thing. I've said it before and will say it again: I'm still not convinced loosening immigration laws or buidling a big huge wall at the border and shooting anything that comes over, under, or through it are the right answers. What I do know is if Mexico (et al) wasn't so fucked up, it's citizens wouldn't be flocking to this country in droves right now. It's not a potato famine or a revolution war as with the Germans and Irish, but similar enough to draw correlation. The immigration of the mid 19th century cutailed off after the famine and war ended. It fricken fell off the cliff and went back to normal levels.
BTW, if putting forth intelligent discussion is, what did someone call it "Liberal Trickery" or something like that? Wow. Awe inspiring counter-arguement.
I don't see how you can even put immigrants coming here legally and working/assimilating into American culture in the same thread as one about people illegally entering and sucking up social services.
One group came with honor and good intentions. The others not so much. Other than being human there's nothing in common.
BTW, if putting forth intelligent discussion is, what did someone call it "Liberal Trickery" or something like that? Wow. Awe inspiring counter-arguement.
The amazing thing about forums is that everything that anyone posts is there to go back and reference. This generally eliminates the need for poorly remembered paraphrasing but in your case I'll help you out. Here's exactly what I said.
Any attempt to create the premise that 'legal and illegal immigration are essentially the same' is an attempt to create that argument that the people who are against illegal immigration are essentially xenophobic or racist. Its a dishonest intellectual manuver, which is pretty common in liberal circles (in the liberal media, particularly).
Perhaps, because I've spent some time over the years debating on the internet, I made assumptions about your skills of argument and intent.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'll let you in on a secret. Every false premise has a destination. If you formulate a false premise with a known destination and manage to get the other participants to accept it, you can control a debate.
Whether you attempted that by accident or intentionally, I don't know.
Thank you for trying to clear that up SAFriday. Even if Mars Attacks!, gets their asses kicked, and retreats and abandons 20 million Martians in the US, after all is said and done, there will be 20 million new, defacto, residents in the US for us to deal with. [/runonsentence]
SA Friday
08-03-2010, 22:46
The amazing thing about forums is that everything that anyone posts is there to go back and reference. This generally eliminates the need for poorly remembered paraphrasing but in your case I'll help you out. Here's exactly what I said.
Perhaps, because I've spent some time over the years debating on the internet, I made assumptions about your skills of argument and intent.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'll let you in on a secret. Every false premise has a destination. If you formulate a false premise with a known destination and manage to get the other participants to accept it, you can control a debate.
Whether you attempted that by accident or intentionally, I don't know.
Yep, my bad. You were inferring that I was calling everyone a racist AND implying I was using liberal trickery all at the same time. You are absolutely correct. Your years of internet debating skills are Outstanding! Thank you for all of the constructive and intuative input into this, one of a couple of dozen, recent illegal immigration threads that all result in a big giant group hug of nothing.
So, is a premise false because you say so? If I disagree, can I call your false premise of my false premise a false-false premise? Crap, there I did it again. Better infer I'm using underhanded liberal Ninjer tactics on everyone again before someone agrees with me.
Byte Stryke
08-03-2010, 23:02
Better infer I'm using underhanded liberal Ninjer tactics on everyone again before someone agrees with me.
Hey Yo... you cant say Ninjer.
Ninja and ninjer aren't the same thing...
:D
I wasn't calling anyone racist either by the way. Even though I completely understand how it sounds that way.
Yep, my bad. You were inferring that I was calling everyone a racist AND implying I was using liberal trickery all at the same time. You are absolutely correct. Your years of internet debating skills are Outstanding! Thank you for all of the constructive and intuative input into this, one of a couple of dozen, recent illegal immigration threads that all result in a big giant group hug of nothing.
So, is a premise false because you say so? If I disagree, can I call your false premise of my false premise a false-false premise? Crap, there I did it again. Better infer I'm using underhanded liberal Ninjer tactics on everyone again before someone agrees with me.
What are you, twelve? [ROFL1]
I tried to be reasonably amiable. But frankly, the entire idea that legal and illegal immigration are exactly the same is completely moronic. I spent the time to refute the premise itself, with the statement about its intellectual honesty being a sidebar. From now on I'll let you say whatever moronic shit you feel like without responding to it at all, that way you won't have to throw any more fits.
No one said they were exactly the same.
Bitter Clinger
08-04-2010, 07:53
I do not understand how anybody cannot consider these " undocumented workers" an occupying foreign army. Its economic warfare people! They are dismantling this country from the inside out. How long before people wake up?
Fearing retrobution, they switched to English.
Fear isn't always a bad thing. Too bad nobody has any fear today.
What town did they reside in in Nebraska? My wife and I both grew up there and all of our families came over from Germany or Russia to settle in various areas of Nebraska to farm.
SA Friday
08-04-2010, 11:42
Fear isn't always a bad thing. Too bad nobody has any fear today.
What town did they reside in in Nebraska? My wife and I both grew up there and all of our families came over from Germany or Russia to settle in various areas of Nebraska to farm.
Deuel County. Mostly Chappell, but they're spread out all over the county and trickle off past the CO border a bit and towards Sidney and... Aw, hell, it's a huge family. They are all over the place in that area.
Deuel County. Mostly Chappell, but they're spread out all over the county and trickle off past the CO border a bit and towards Sidney and... Aw, hell, it's a huge family. They are all over the place in that area.
We may be related. [Whacko]
SA Friday
08-04-2010, 12:13
We may be related. [Whacko]
I'm a Bruns and a Clark. Got both in my tree. Little bit of Mesigatis in some of the branches also. The way I figure it, I'm related to most of the county. Comes in handy during pheasant season since the whole area is farm land.
In all seriousness, I whole heartedly believe the problem isn't that they are brown or the numbers. I believe the problem is that they (subjective generaliztion) refuse to assimilate into our country, our culture.
Yes, 100-200 years ago it was the same thing. Heck they STILL have "German town" or "China town" in large cities, etc. However, over all, in my experience, most of the older immigrants (German, Irish, Italian, et al) tried their hardest to assimilate and to raise their children with American values and instill the work ethic to acheive the American Dream. Heck, this country was BUILT on immigration (and assimilation for the betterment of ALL).
New immigrants not respecting our flag/culture, our language, wanting special priviledges in schools, feeling entitled to benefits that the average American cannot partake in is just wrong in my opinion.
I think that's the bottom line.
Holy cow I just got quoted! I'm friggin' famous I tell ya! Famous!
*No, I didn't ghost an account.
BUT I do feel honored that he/she/it used their first post ever to quote me! Thank you, thank you. Autographs will be signed after todays show. Please stick around! And don't forget to tip your waitresses!
The real bottom line is,are the American people ready to give up certain constituional rights;like Ariz.anti immigration law.To have the police be allowed racial profiling,asking for citizen papers,etc; just because he or she looks Mexican;or wears a sombero,smack's of a police state to me.The next thing you know, that just because Im wearing a camo hat,the police will have the right to pull me over, and search my car too see if I'm carrying any illegal weapon's[PoPo]
The real bottom line is,are the American people ready to give up certain constituional rights;like Ariz.anti immigration law.To have the police be allowed racial profiling,asking for citizen papers,etc; just because he or she looks Mexican;or wears a sombero,smack's of a police state to me.The next thing you know, that just because Im wearing a camo hat,the police will have the right to pull me over, and search my car too see if I'm carrying any illegal weapon's[PoPo]
Don't believe the hype. Latin folks in AZ are going apeshit because it's a good law that will work. Racism and racial profiling is a red herring to draw attention away from the fact that they are breaking the law, and they know it.
Jumpstart
08-04-2010, 16:05
Don't believe the hype. Latin folks in AZ are going apeshit because it's a good law that will work. Racism and racial profiling is a red herring to draw attention away from the fact that they are breaking the law, and they know it.
It sure is a red herring. Brown deputies will be doing the citizenship asking too. They are also part of the 70% of Arizonians who support the original SB 1070 law. As for racial profiling in general, If you watch COPS on t.v. they racial profile suspects all the time when radioing in info. It's called effecient communication and police work.
Anyway, Americans of all skin color have burdens to bear from illegal immigration, this "burden" is brown people's, finally and rightly so. We aren't on the border of Sweden. The overwhelming majority have brown skin and are Mexican/Latino. That's a fact. Now it's past time to deal with them. Racial profiling makes all the sense in the world in dealing with illegal immigration on our southern border, but it doesn't happen, "officially".
I saw a black Jetta with New Mexico plates going south on I-25 this morning. It had a bumper sticker that said "No humans are illegal," only it was in Spanish. I wanted to toss a brick through the back window.
Bailey Guns
08-05-2010, 11:29
The real bottom line is,are the American people ready to give up certain constituional rights;like Ariz.anti immigration law.To have the police be allowed racial profiling,asking for citizen papers,etc; just because he or she looks Mexican;or wears a sombero,smack's of a police state to me.The next thing you know, that just because Im wearing a camo hat,the police will have the right to pull me over, and search my car too see if I'm carrying any illegal weapon's[PoPo]
Sorry...but you're totally full of shit. You obviously haven't read the law...or been paying attention to the thousands of people who have read the law and have tried, in various ways and various mediums, to explain why this type of thinking is completely flawed.
How simple does it need to be made for some of you people?
The AZ law mirrors federal law
Stopping people based on their race alone is strictly forbidden and the law applies punishments to those LE officers that do
US citizens and white people have to prove their citizenship status frequentlyIf you can't understand that in those simple terms then ignorance isn't your excuse.
Was ERNO serious? For some reason I thought he was being sarcastic....
Bailey Guns
08-05-2010, 11:44
Didn't read like sarcasm to me. Obviously.
ChunkyMonkey
08-05-2010, 11:46
The real bottom line is,are the American people ready to give up certain constituional rights;like Ariz.anti immigration law.To have the police be allowed racial profiling,asking for citizen papers,etc; just because he or she looks Mexican;or wears a sombero,smack's of a police state to me.The next thing you know, that just because Im wearing a camo hat,the police will have the right to pull me over, and search my car too see if I'm carrying any illegal weapon's[PoPo]
The only one who's profiling is YOU!
Didn't read like sarcasm to me. Obviously.
Hmm... guess I'm just a lighthearted fool then, lol.
[Bang]
The only one who's profiling is YOU!
His mind=blown! [LOL]
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