View Full Version : Islam Perversion My Butt!
ChunkyMonkey
08-25-2010, 15:57
Col. Allen West tells it as is...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkGQmCZjJ0k&feature=player_embedded
I grew up in a muslim country, most libs simply don't get it what we are fighting against. Watch how Col. West answers this question.
Zundfolge
08-25-2010, 16:26
I wish Col. West was America's first black president :(
This is not West but its pretty good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w
Naw, according to the libs he's all wrong, the really haven't been fighting all those years, and they love everyone. They are just misunderstood.
ronaldrwl
08-25-2010, 16:45
I wish Col. West was America's first black president :(
This is not West but its pretty good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w
+1
3 Cheers for Colonel Allen West !
You cannot make a statement about the beliefs of a billion people and expect to to be wholly true.
H.
I can and I will.
Because I am an 'internet tough guy'.
ChunkyMonkey
08-25-2010, 16:52
HOOSIER,
I highly recommend you to spend some times learning more about the basic of Islam. Many thought like you. I grew up in a very moderate Islamic country, and we were treated as 'infidels' or non muslim by the so called peaceful muslims.
Comparing any of the religions is simply comparing an apple to orange.
And by your own word, those who are not 'very religious' and do not follow the Qur'an word by word, then in Islam he/she is not islam. Unlike any other religions who does not condemn a non believer, Islam does.
ALL BRANCHES of Islam preach the same when it comes to infidels and how to spread out Islam. Each sect has different interpretation on after life and how to practice islam (in such technical way e.g. how to pray etc).
I am not comparing Christianity to Islam, nor am I interested in arguing who's better than the other. I have seen the facts with my own eyes. I have seen family being forced to circumsize a new born to declare him a muslim, I have seen 'moderate' preachers who might not tell his followers to kill infidels, but certainly support or not against those who kill. To tell me otherwise base on your 'common sense' is simply irrelevant to me.
ChunkyMonkey
08-25-2010, 16:55
You gotta go beyond google to understand the real world [Tooth]
If you make the broad generalizations that everyone who follows a faith obeys every tenet, and if your basis of information about (for example) the Christian faith was reading the Bible and assuming that they all followed it to the letter, you'd have a very dim view of that faith. I know of no mainstream Christian religion that doesn't (in whole or in part) discard the laws of the Old Testament.
H.
Terrible example. Old Testament is old. Christ broke it and gave (Christians) a new covenant with God. Some refer to this as the New Testament. No?
SA Friday
08-25-2010, 18:57
M888 is right as it pertains to all sects of the Islamic religion. They all see conversion as a necessary requirement. Hoosier is right in that not all sects are as radical in theirs views as to what is allowed (right and wrong) to bring this conversion of the infidel. The Arab Sunni Hambali muslim are the more radical sub-sect of thinking about this concept in the Islamic faith. Not all sub-sects of the Sunni nor the Shia sides of Islam are ultra radical in this thinking. There are a small minority of sub-sects of Muslims in the world still enveloping societal laws and norms into their versions of Shira law. Unfortunately, Hambali has spread like a plague over the last 100 years, and has exploded with the support of the Saud family support and financing of madrasas all over the world.
IMO, all non-Islamic being subservient to the Islamic in a Muslim country has been consistant across the board in the countries I've been in. BUT, lets be real clear about what the Islamic beliefs of what constitutes an infidel are before it thrown around in this thread like a dead cat. An infidel is a person who doesn't believe in 'God'. All of the sons-of-Abraham believe in the one true god, and are NOT labeled as infidels according to the Koran. Pegans are infidels, and any other use of the work in reference to Islamic beliefs is incorrect. Infidels have the opportunity to convert or die according to the Koran. Jews and Christians have to pay to live in a Muslim country and remain subservient to the Muslims while there (also according to the Koran).
The Col is correct in many ways. The Koran (and other books of guidance in the Islamic faith) relate the WORLD converted to Islam. Muslims, due mostly to lack of external opinions contradicting anything from the religion in their societies, believe these texts as gospel truth. Even when they say they don't, it's so engrained into their culture, they simply cannot believe any other possible truth. This is where the extremism comes from in the Islamic faith. No other points of view are allowed, contradictions to the faith are crushed and immediately amputated from their society, and diversity is seen as a contradiction.
Eventually, Islam will change or perish. History consistantly shows cultures that fail to diversify and revere isolation die. We just need to financially and physically isolate them from relevency IMO, and they will die off in their own due time.
theGinsue
08-25-2010, 19:39
What is it we are fighting against?
He's making the assumption that Muslims all interpret those books in the same literal way. It's patently false. There are many branches of Islam, just as there are many sects in every other religion. Each sect (in every religion) interprets their various holy books in different ways.
If you make the broad generalizations that everyone who follows a faith obeys every tenet, and if your basis of information about (for example) the Christian faith was reading the Bible and assuming that they all followed it to the letter, you'd have a very dim view of that faith. I know of no mainstream Christian religion that doesn't (in whole or in part) discard the laws of the Old Testament.
Obviously, there are numerous people of Muslim faith who are against the idea of Jihad against the west. You cannot make a statement about the beliefs of a billion people and expect to to be wholly true.
TL;DR He says Jihadism must be universally accepted by Muslims because it's in their holy book. I say if you are Christian, I need a maid around my house, how much as you willing to sell your daughter for? Exodus 21:7
H.
Krasni responded to your comments as I intended to respond before I got the chance. I'm no ordained minister and perhaps Pistol Packing Preacher can correct me if/where I'm off base here, but Christians are under the New covenant which is all spelled out in the New Testament. THIS IS WHAT WE BELIEVE. We still have the Old Testament (which is essentially - but not exactly - the Jewish Torah) more as a way for us to know God better and know what he has expected of us and how it has remained consistent throughout time, even with a new covenant. Perhaps, if you were addressing a Jew, I could see you making your arguement, but for Christians it simply holds no water.
Yes, there are many different sects of Muslims with very diverse teachings and beliefs. What we need to understand of their culture is that they are all fuedal. Look at their religion throughout time. When Islamics didn't have outsiders (non-Muslims) to war against, they fought with those of differring sects, or flavors, of Islam. You don't even need to go back in history more than 25 years to get a huge view of this. Iranian Muslims fighting Iraqi Muslims because they did not believe the same way. Even within Iraq itself you've had the differing sects warring against the other sects to the point of attempting genocide - all because "you don't belief the way I do".
It is my personal belief that the fighting won't stop until the last two Muslims on earth - who have seen fit to eradicate everyone else on the planet - have it out and one kills the other. Only then will there be peace. Fighting and killing is so deeply ingrained into their cultures, customs, beliefs, and ideologies that they have no higher desire than to fight and kill.
Theirs IS NOT a peaceful religion, there are just those who present a more peaceful front to that religion. In the end it's convert, or die.
Christians are under the New covenant which is all spelled out in the New Testament. THIS IS WHAT WE BELIEVE. We still have the Old Testament
My point wasn't to do with actual teachings, but that if you just picked up a Bible and read it as the only basis for how you interpret what Christians are, you'd have a much different opinion than reality. In other words, if you read their holy books (as is suggested) and then assume that all of them follow just that, you'd be wrong.
If you want to know what various sects believe, a better place to start would be to listen to their "sermons" and see what they're really saying. I believe that to be true regardless of the faith. For example, Rev. Wright is a "christian" but another Christian who listens to what he says might walk away with another point of view.
H.
ChunkyMonkey
08-25-2010, 20:11
Eventually, Islam will change or perish. History consistantly shows cultures that fail to diversify and revere isolation die. We just need to financially and physically isolate them from relevency IMO, and they will die off in their own due time.
Islam has been steadily among the fastest growing religions in the past 2000 years, no?
Islam has been steadily among the fastest growing religions in the past 2000 years, no?
Lots of younger Muslims born and raised in Western societies are clashing with their elders about the level of freedom they want, no?
We still have the Old Testament (which is essentially - but not exactly - the Jewish Torah) more as a way for us to know God better and know what he has expected of us and how it has remained consistent throughout time, even with a new covenant. Perhaps, if you were addressing a Jew, I could see you making your arguement, but for Christians it simply holds no water.Perhaps I am misunderstanding the point you're trying to make here, but it sounds to me like you're saying that even though we have a new covenant with God, the Old Testament still shows us what God expects of us; including all of the things that according to the video Zundfolge linked to we would be surprised to learn are in the Koran.
theGinsue
08-25-2010, 21:02
Perhaps I am misunderstanding the point you're trying to make here, but it sounds to me like you're saying that even though we have a new covenant with God, the Old Testament still shows us what God expects of us.
Yes, and no.
It is my understanding that we study the OT to understand God better and to learn that He wants us to know Him and worship Him. No, because the "how" for accomplishing the first part is different in the NT than it was in the OT. Many of the rules no longer apply.
Just my take.
ChunkyMonkey
08-25-2010, 21:30
Lots of younger Muslims born and raised in Western societies are clashing with their elders about the level of freedom they want, no?
Hence the stoning and murders of the younger generation even here in US, no? Even some converting muslims from the western world are known to fight his/her own fellow countrymen in the name of Islam. Where have you been?
SA Friday
08-25-2010, 21:31
Islam has been steadily among the fastest growing religions in the past 2000 years, no? The Inca, Myan, and many others lasted a hell of a lot longer than the current Islamicly influenced countries. Then this one day, this big boat thingee with a few dozen weird looking guys piled out and everything went to shit in a heartbeat. There are tons of examples of this throughout ancient cultures and modern cultures. Diversify or perish.
ChunkyMonkey
08-25-2010, 21:36
The Inca, Myan, and many others lasted a hell of a lot longer than the current Islamicly influenced countries. Then this one day, this big boat thingee with a few dozen weird looking guys piled out and everything went to shit in a heartbeat. There are tons of examples of this throughout ancient cultures and modern cultures. Diversify or perish.
Meanwhile the rest of us who live in this ion is being assimilated before the weird guys in the big boat thingy arrives! [Rant1]
Hoosier did a good job of misdirecting here, your all talking about someone other then the enemy now.
Christians and Jews or even Wicken's did not attack America on 9/11 it was Muslims in the name of Islam and Mohammad.
They are our enemy and they have been the enemy of free people the world over for a very long time.
They have spread death and destruction through Africia and Asia and terrorize Europe to the point they are afraid to exercise free speech because they will and are being killed for it.
Sure some small portion is peacefull and tollerant of others but the majority are not and if you dont understand that, go live in the above mentioned locations and see how nice they are, but dont try to convince us how sweet they are and how we should accept them, they dont accept us any place on earth. We want to continue to live free and to do that, islam must stay the hell out of America.
[M2] to mohammad and his followers of destruction and intolerance.
theGinsue
08-25-2010, 21:39
Hmmm. Very well put Jim. I agree. Thank you.
Islam has been steadily among the fastest growing religions in the past 2000 years, no?
Islam started about 610. So it can only have been growing for the last 1400 years.
theGinsue
08-25-2010, 21:56
I always understood that they claimed the liniage of Abraham's first son, Ishmael (the one from his wifes maidservant Hagar). The Arabs, and thusly Islam, came from the the line of Ishmaelites.
Just the way I learned it.
Hence the stoning and murders of the younger generation even here in US, no? Even some converting muslims from the western world are known to fight his/her own fellow countrymen in the name of Islam. Where have you been?Having dinner and watching Louie.
My point is, younger Muslims who are growing up in the West are pushing back against the strict interpretation of their religion. Of course their parents are pushing back too, but evolution is a gradual process. Christianity didn't go from the Inquisition to where it is today overnight. It had to start somewhere.
Byte Stryke
08-25-2010, 23:46
Hoosier did a good job of misdirecting here, your all talking about someone other then the enemy now.
Christians, Jews, PAGANS or even WICCANS did not attack America on 9/11 it was Muslims in the name of Islam and Mohammad.
They are our enemy and they have been the enemy of free people the world over for a very long time.
Fixed it for you...
Lets not be offending the minority Religions.
Its bad enough that there are so few that they are all being lumped in together just so they count.
found this for you guys
http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/rel_pie.jpg
The Jews seem pretty sparse to be as targeted/successful as they are.
They were God's chosen people for a very long time, and therefore hated by everyone else who were following the other guy.
Byte Stryke
08-26-2010, 01:06
as crazy as it sounds I am actually packed in with the Primal-Indigenous at a whopping 6%!
we are on the way UP!
[LOL]
I know of no mainstream Christian religion that doesn't (in whole or in part) discard the laws of the Old Testament.
I say if you are Christian, I need a maid around my house, how much as you willing to sell your daughter for? Exodus 21:7
H.
And here we go....
Most Christians DO disregard the "laws" of the Old Testament because they are now invalid. The Laws were rules to live by in order to be sinless deemed "holy" enough to stand by God. No human would ever be able to accomplish that a live a perfect life. Hence God sent his Son, Jesus Christ, to live that life and die on the cross taking our "sins" and offering eternal salvation.
Now, we are able to sin and be forgiven... the great conundrum of free will.
That is why there is the NEW Testament. We used to have to sacrfice anuimals and only priests could enter the Temples to beg for forgiveness for the general populations sins. When Jesus died, the curtains surrounding teh temple altar were torn. People don't have to sacrifice or worship in temples anymore. Anyone, anywhere now has the ability to go directly to God. The Old Testament is simply now part of the cannon and an historical record. As far as the daughter for the maid, Exodus is part of the Old Testmaent.
Over 98% of families have Bibles... but I doubt even 20% read them.
Look-a-here
http://www.investigativeproject.org/maps/terrorism-map.php
Sigh. I'm trying to make a point unrelated to the actual teaching of the bible. Allow me to try this again:
If you read Dianetics by L. Ron Hubbard, and assume that by reading this book you understand all of Scientology, and that everyone who calls themself a Scientologist will always act exactly according to that book, you're making the same misguided pre-judgement of Scientologists as the first video is advocating about Islam.
Now, because I haven't read the Qur'ran or any of the other books Col West suggests, I hit up a Muslim I know who also happens to be an active AR shooter. Here is his take on (I think mostly the second video)
This video clip is the perspective of an extremist. I really don't feel like going further than that.
Muslims should not pick and choose, yes, but this fellow seems to be picking and choosing an awful not and citing abrogation as his justification. Abrogation is for verses like "don't drink if you are praying" followed by "don't drink at all". This was a specific means of weaning the booze-happy pagan arabs away from liquor w/o resulting in a city full of people in the throws of delirium tremens. When the Qur'an tells us to leave people who won't believe be that is a general statement regarding non believers that are around us. When it says "go forth and kill the nonbeliever" that is in the context of a war that was going on at a specific point in time, with specific nonbelievers and specific battles that are mentioned in the Qur'an.
This guy also implys that Shari'ah law is in the Qur'an and the Qur'an alone. This is incorrect. Shari'ah is extracted from The Qur'an, yes, but also The Ahadith; a collection of orally transmitted traditions attributed to The Prophet, his companions, and God. These passages make up the bulk of what we identify as Shari'ah. Like anything else the exegetical process is prone to error, since exegesis is a human endeavor.
Additionally, Shari'ah is not imposed on society. Whenever this happens it makes things worse for everyone except those in power. Shari'ah is intended to be an emergent behavior, something that emanates forth from the behavior of the individual, then the family, then the society, then the nation. If these conditions can't be met Muslims are commanded to adhere to the laws of the land in which they live, so long as those laws don't command them to sin.
I should have watched this last night, now I am going to be pissed off all day. :)
And speaking of AR15's:
http://i.imgur.com/VA31Y.jpg
H.
Okay, thanks Hoosier for clearing that up. I always hear about people using the Old Testmaent to call so and so a hypocrit or that Christians are wrong or blah, blah, blah... For all intensive purposes, with the introduction of the New Testament, the Old testament and hte Laws is now just a historical context book.
Ok, we can wrap up this entire discussion now! The Taiwainese animators have covered all the bases. You guys will love the secret muslim Obama with a burning heart in the oval office.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WO_XOOxn7c
Hilarious
H.
ChunkyMonkey
08-26-2010, 11:12
hahahah... [ROFL1]
lol, can anyone translate?
lol, can anyone translate?
I think the v/o actually presents a more coherent and informed summary of the whole situation without translation :D
I didn't hear a voice over... just taiwainese writing and a taiwainese speaker...
Hoosier did a good job of misdirecting here, your all talking about someone other then the enemy now.
Christians and Jews or even Wicken's did not attack America on 9/11 it was Muslims in the name of Islam and Mohammad.
They are our enemy and they have been the enemy of free people the world over for a very long time.
They have spread death and destruction through Africia and Asia and terrorize Europe to the point they are afraid to exercise free speech because they will and are being killed for it.
Sure some small portion is peacefull and tollerant of others but the majority are not and if you dont understand that, go live in the above mentioned locations and see how nice they are, but dont try to convince us how sweet they are and how we should accept them, they dont accept us any place on earth. We want to continue to live free and to do that, islam must stay the hell out of America.
[M2] to mohammad and his followers of destruction and intolerance. I believe that the main reason that the muslims who commit violence in the name of Islam against the U.S., truly believe that the U.S. is a staunch supporter of Israel's policy of imperialism and genocide against the Palistianain people. And until the U.S. stops sending money and arms to Israel ;and gets tough on Israel's colonialism,invasions into Lebanon ,the blockcading of the Gaza Strip,and the refusal of sincere peace talks;the U.S. will be perceived as "infidels". The word "infidels" came from the Crusader's ,who battled the Muslim's a long time ago;who called the muslim's "infidels".
I thought somebody told me this is a free country?And for order for that to be true;one of the ways is to practice religious tolerance.
[Help]
ChunkyMonkey
08-26-2010, 15:44
The pacifists would want you to think so. We give $1.3 billion to Egypt annually, and recently gave Pakistan $7.3 billion. Your reasoning is flaw. The list go on...
Genocide? It has been 5 years since I was in Israel, however I remember vividly how many arab ethnics serve in the IDF, how many Arab Israeli citizens flourish under the free country of Israel. Some Palestinians would sneak through the border to work in Israel. Could you say the same with Gaza or westbank. For crying out loud the Palestinians are fighting against each other. That includes our lovely lebanese friend. Please don't make this as a racial or Israel VS the Middleeast subject. US helped Muslims through out the world including the Kosovo minority, Quwait, shia/sunni in many many different point of history.
Also you should understand how the crusade started. Being in the western world, we tend to learn only on Western history/civilization. Jihad were and are waged much longer than crusade. From North Africa to spain, Arabia peninsula to Southern Europe, from the old kingdom of Persia to Central Asia of Russia and even to the Far west of China. The word INFIDEL is english for a nonbeliever. So yes it is used by the english speaking world. I refer it in english as in Arabic is KAFIR - which also means nonbelievers. The word Kafirs might mean death to so many people in the middle east at the beginning of spreading of Islam and even today!
Religious tolerance has nothing to do with promoting hatred, stoning, jihad, and matyrdom.
Back to what I was saying, growing up in a muslim country, I think many people here do not understand how dangerous Islam is to the free world.
The pacifists would want you to think so. We give $1.3 billion to Egypt annually, and recently gave Pakistan $7.3 billion. Your reasoning is flaw. The list go on...
Genocide? It has been 5 years since I was in Israel, however I remember vividly how many arab ethnics serve in the IDF, how many Arab Israeli citizens flourish under the free country of Israel. Some Palestinians would sneak through the border to work in Israel. Could you say the same with Gaza or westbank. For crying out loud the Palestinians are fighting against each other. That includes our lovely lebanese friend. Please don't make this as a racial subject.
Also you should understand how the crusade started. Being in the western world, we tend to learn about Western history/civilization only. Jihad were and are waged much longer than crusade. From North Africa to spain, Arabia peninsula to Southern Europe, from the old kingdom of Persia to Central Asia of Russia and even to the Far west of China. The word INFIDEL is english for a nonbeliever. So yes it is used by the english speaking world. I refer it in english as in Arabic is KAFIR - which also means nonbelievers. The word Kafirs might mean death to so many people in the middle east at the beginning of spreading of Islam and even today!
Religious tolerance has nothing to do with promoting hatred, stoning, jihad, and matyrdom.
Back to what I was saying, growing up in a muslim country, I think many people here do not understand how dangerous Islam is to the free world.
Well, why don't you tell that to the Palistianian farmer who just had his orchard farm confiscated by Israel , in the Gaza Strip last week;because "his farm was too close too Israel's border,and his farm was used as a staging ground for attacks into Israel".Look at Israel and the West Bank on the map ,and you'll see that Israel grabbed all of the Palistianian water wells ,water rights;as well as most of there fertile farm's,and left the Palistianians with nothing but desert land to live on![Coffee]
ChunkyMonkey
08-26-2010, 16:49
Again how does it have anything to do with the topic on hand. I cannot answer on behalf of the Israeli, I would agree with the justification if they use the ground to stage attacks. Put up some links to the fertile farm grabbing etc please.
Meanwhile enjoy the following Ramadhan scene in the supposedly strickened Gaza...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_puiuvWHQ4&feature=player_embedded
No drinking water......
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=285242
GAZA MARKET....
http://ghadry.com/pictures-from-gaza-and-the-rest-of-the-muslim-world/
FEW MORE...Gaza market - wow hard to get your hand anything due to Israeli blockade right? Wrong..Israeli has been supplying food electricity and water for dirt cheap.
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7607/88002899.jpg
Source is Arabic news.. more pictures here...
http://www.paltoday.ps/arabic/News-64161.html
These folks are well known for their propaganda stories/news to the world. They are receiving more UN and International fund each year than REAL disasters like Pakistan earthquake or Haiti earthquake victims combined!
Cry me a river!
Back to what I was saying, growing up in a muslim country, I think many people here do not understand how dangerous Islam is to the free world.
I don't think anyone here doubts how dangerous an ideology pursued to its most extreme ends can be to the free world. A Christian who believes that we're living in the end times, or that we don't need to worry about the Gulf oil spill because God will sort it out can be just as dangerous to the free world.
What many people here don't understand is how you can be so sure that a billion and a half Muslims all think exactly the same, all follow the Koran to the letter of your interpretation of it, and are all 100% committed to our destruction. If you can explain that with more than anecdotal evidence, or videos of a guy pandering to the prejudices of his audience, I'll gladly join your crusade. I'm too lazy to pray five times a day.
The only point I want to make, and I think it's important, is that you cannot say all Muslims are terrorists. And that Islam, a religion, is not an existential threat to the free world. There have been many religions over the millennia, too many to count, that have sought to control the world. They are the same as communism, fascism, and dictatorships; a means for one group of people to subjugate another.
These people must be opposed. Right now the most active of these is obviously Islam. But to say that all of Islam is terrorists, is to work the wrong way. Islamic jihadists are a subset of all their followers. People who want to see Shar'ia law implemented are another subset. They are your enemies. I could make a Venn diagram...
The problem with saying "bomb Mecca" is you alienate the other Muslims, the ones who are best able to turn the tide of opinion. You can't change public perception for the better with bombs.
My last $0.02, I'm just lurking from here on out.
H.
ChunkyMonkey
08-26-2010, 17:07
I don't think anyone here doubts how dangerous an ideology pursued to its most extreme ends can be to the free world. A Christian who believes that we're living in the end times, or that we don't need to worry about the Gulf oil spill because God will sort it out can be just as dangerous to the free world.
What many people here don't understand is how you can be so sure that a billion and a half Muslims all think exactly the same, all follow the Koran to the letter of your interpretation of it, and are all 100% committed to our destruction. If you can explain that with more than anecdotal evidence, or videos of a guy pandering to the prejudices of his audience, I'll gladly join your crusade. I'm too lazy to pray five times a day.
The difference is, other religions do not command you to kill the infidels/kafirs, stone the harams, or call for jihads. Islam as religion is dangerous - and can be used by 'Muslims' to justify extreme actions.
One thing I agree with you on the number. It doesn't take all muslims to be devout believers to start affecting your life as you know it. Google 'Ambon Jihad,' Jakarta riot, Poso Jihad, Iraqi Christian prosecution and so on.
You may choose to ignore it since you haven't lived through it.
Zundfolge
08-26-2010, 17:17
Islamic jihadists are a subset of all their followers. People who want to see Shar'ia law implemented are another subset.
That is the crux of the argument.
I would argue that violent Jihad against unbelievers and implementation of global Islamic government (of which Shar'ia is part) is a central tenant of mainstream Islam. And THAT is why they are a threat to western culture.
Much like the Divinity of Christ is a central tenant of mainstream Christianity.
Different Christian groups may disagree on whether one needs to be sprinkled or dunked, or whether drinking alcohol is a sin or whether women can be ordained or if homosexuality is a sin. But there are a handful of things that Christians must agree on (or they are no longer Christian).
Even if some Muslims choose not to engage in violent Jihad, they are still commanded not to take the side of the infidel against their more violent Muslim brothers.
When a kooky Christian group commits acts of violence against non-Christians, most Christians will stand up and condemn such acts. Any Muslim that condemns violent acts against infidels by his brother Muslims has committed a sin against Islam.
HBARleatherneck
08-26-2010, 17:17
so liberals, then muslims took over GB then sent their operatives here?
"Extremist" attacks against us have been going on for a long time.
At the heart of the matter is israel. The muslim extremists hate us and want to kill us because we support the zionist, imperial oppression of the jews.
Many of the americans that support "palestine" (palestinian is a buzzword they are syrians) are liberal products of liberal university indoctrination who 100 years ago would have been thoroughly anti-semitic.
well, they still are thoroughly anti-semitic, but in today's politically correct world it's much better for them to be pro "palestine" (who are anti-israel) rather than just being anti-israel.
But every once in a while one will let their facade slip and show their true colors e.g. Helen Thomas.
show me a white, english speaking supporter of of "palestine" and you show me someone who deep down would be A-OK with the extermination of every jewish person. (either that or they're tappin' a muslim) It's not a pretty or nice sentiment. Which is why they keep it hidden. A deception which conveniently enough muslims are allowed by allah to do to further his religion.
MB888 made a great post about how bad the syrians in gaza are suffering. But they want the world to think they are struggling and suffering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL8ANySuSuk
calling people against the ground zero mosque 'bigots' is a red herring.
just like calling people for the AZ immigration law racists.
it's a cacophony of noise designed to intimidate and silence.
if you're an american muslim and think you're getting a raw deal in racist and bigoted U.S.A I invite you to expatriate your ass elsewhere or shut the fuck up.
Byte Stryke
08-26-2010, 19:03
The difference is, other religions do not command you to kill the infidels/kafirs, stone the harams, or call for jihads.
Sorry, WHAT?
Christianity and Islam are both equally to blame for the deaths of Millions.
For anyone to say that Christianity in any or all of its many forms is innocent of bloodshed is not only naive but ignorant and dangerous.
Woman with “familiar spirits” must be stoned to death. Leviticus 20:27
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” Exodus 22:18
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5
Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10
Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17
Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8
Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22
Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19
The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7
Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12
False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9
Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10
A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33
Quoted for intellectual Credits and because I didn't want to have to look all of it up.
The Sooner Christians and Muslims stop killing over different interpretations of the same book that was written by MEN, Dissected and perverted by MEN, and then called the "word of God" the better off the world will be.
Hey, Go rob this bank for me and kill the people inside because Kermit the Frog Said so *scribble scribble* see, it says so in this book. If you do this for Kermit you will get an eternity with supermodels and a new Ferrari!
Stop using some Invisible man in the clouds to make ignorant people do your self-serving dirty-work.
Guess what, we are all on the same rock, no one is going anywhere. There are no 40 virgins, there is no magic harp and halo... there is what we do here. Religion is an opiate for the IGNORANT masses.
/rant
Sorry, WHAT?
Christianity and Islam are both equally to blame for the deaths of Millions.
For anyone to say that Christianity in any or all of its many forms is innocent of bloodshed is not only naive but ignorant and dangerous.
Quoted for intellectual Credits and because I didn't want to have to look all of it up.
The Sooner Christians and Muslims stop killing over different interpretations of the same book that was written by MEN, Dissected and perverted by MEN, and then called the "word of God" the better off the world will be.
Hey, Go rob this bank for me and kill the people inside because Kermit the Frog Said so *scribble scribble* see, it says so in this book. If you do this for Kermit you will get an eternity with supermodels and a new Ferrari!
Stop using some Invisible man in the clouds to make ignorant people do your self-serving dirty-work.
Guess what, we are all on the same rock, no one is going anywhere. There are no 40 virgins, there is no magic harp and halo... there is what we do here. Religion is an opiate for the IGNORANT masses.
/rant
now go find an example newer than September 11, 2001.
rockhound
08-26-2010, 19:14
Allen West for president, no really
Byte Stryke
08-26-2010, 19:16
now go find an example newer than September 11, 2001.
you want me to go find a quote for a 2010 year old book newer than Sept 11...
Call me sill but I think the Bible said the same thing on October 11, 2001 as it did on Sept 10 2001.
Its not a quarterly
[ROFL1]
My point is that neither the Christian theology nor the Muslim Theology is innocent of intollerance.
As neither side is innocent of Bloodshed in the name of God and Faith.
So the whole "Show me another religion that calls for it" is weak.
Byte Stryke
08-26-2010, 19:24
ElHuero, I Digress, Perhaps you thought I was simply quoting a singular page influenced by the times.
I have found a Bible site that is free and non partisan. Please feel free to read the passages for yourself in the version of your choice.
The Book and Verse are in the quote above.
http://www.biblegateway.com
For Example
Deuteronomy 13:12-16 (King James Version)
12If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,
13Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;
14Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;
15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
16And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
Troublco
08-26-2010, 19:45
Religion is an opiate for the IGNORANT masses.
Wow. Quite a statement. So billions of people are ignorant simply because they're religious. Or, depending on how you read it, everyone who is religious is ignorant?
rockhound
08-26-2010, 19:51
religious tolerance for the sake of RT is ignorant and potentially dangerous to any sovereign nation.
we can tolerate only those that will tolerate us. I do not believe they any intention of tolerating your religion. when their numbers are great enough there will be bombing in our streets like any other muslim country.
they are the imbodiment of evil. they have shown their colors over and over.
they have already claimed the right to sharia law in our country, and no that does not mean all of them. that doesn't make it any less dangerous to give into their demand for the sake of tolerance.
personally i have no intention of living in a muslim country.
ElHuero, I Digress, Perhaps you thought I was simply quoting a singular page influenced by the times.
I have found a Bible site that is free and non partisan. Please feel free to read the passages for yourself in the version of your choice.
The Book and Verse are in the quote above.
http://www.biblegateway.com
For Example
I ain't talking about the bible, I challenge you to find an instance of christians murdering people in the name of christ that happened sometime after 9/11.
muslims are the only ones still doing the stupid shit they were doing a thousand years ago.
Byte Stryke
08-26-2010, 19:59
Wow. Quite a statement. So billions of people are ignorant simply because they're religious. Or, depending on how you read it, everyone who is religious is ignorant?
it is actually a spin the Karl Marx Quote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_people).
I just get so tired of everyone pointing out shortcomings and imperfections in each other and killing each other over a book and a religion.
you want to piss of a hardcore christian Anti-Semite?
tellem his Christ was a Jew.
you want to Piss of an Islamic Jihadist? The Quran tells us that the Bible is the word of God in (Perversion/Improper translation)
I just think that the idea of an invisible man in the sky telling us to kill each other because he loves us is a tad "out there".
:D
rockhound
08-26-2010, 20:01
they have been feeling their oats in other countries already. as late as last year they had demonstrations in Britain demanding the acknowledgment of sharia law.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6334091/Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-Britain-claim.html
what will all of the bleeding heart, PC tolerance preaching liberals be saying then.
"oh its just part of their religion we should just let the do it." exactly where should the line in the sand be drawn?
you won't be ahppy until we are all speaking spanish, bowing toward mecca,
Byte Stryke
08-26-2010, 20:17
I ain't talking about the bible, I challenge you to find an instance of christians murdering people in the name of christ that happened sometime after 9/11.
muslims are the only ones still doing the stupid shit they were doing a thousand years ago.
well for ONE thing... its not only Christians and Muslims here...
Jews aren't exactly propping up the olive branch.
for an example of that, turn on the news.
Many People around the world see the Invasion of Iraq and a sure-fire example of Christian genocide/oppression against Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War Biggie, Pretty Irrefutable, but a few years before your deadline.
and if I were allowed to go back 100 years (which isn't that long ago) there are a few hundred other instances.
One notable instance is the American Indian "Wars" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars) which was the oppression and subjugation of the "Godless savages." It only ended as late as 92 years ago.
So we have seen the enemy,, and It is Us...
Wow this has turned into a real religious batte field.
Byte Stryke
08-26-2010, 20:31
So we have seen the enemy,, and It is Us...
Wow this has turned into a real religious batte field.
I am not here to "battle" Anyone, I just think of how absurd it is that we can send men to the moon, Build Lasers rangefinders that will determine Ranges over miles in any weather with almost absolute accuracy. But we still believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that says we have to kill each other because he loves us...
Its almost as crazy as believing that hurricane Katrina happened because the God Poseidon/Allah/whatever was angry at the non-believers.
they have been feeling their oats in other countries already. as late as last year they had demonstrations in Britain demanding the acknowledgment of sharia law.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6334091/Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-Britain-claim.html
what will all of the bleeding heart, PC tolerance preaching liberals be saying then.
"oh its just part of their religion we should just let the do it." exactly where should the line in the sand be drawn?
you won't be ahppy until we are all speaking spanish, bowing toward mecca,
Someone mention Britain? :D
Islam4UK consisted of about 500 people and was named a proscribed organization under UK anti-terror laws (by the 'bleeding heart, PC tolerance preaching liberal' Labour government at the time), meaning membership of it is now a crime.
So a handful of twats in the UK wanted Sharia law? I want you all to spell 'color' with a 'u'. What are the chances of that happening?
So we got the Jew haters in here and the religon haters and a few America haters all chiming in. Sorry to see you all have learned nothing yet about our current situation.
The evil imperialist Americans or Gods chosen people the Jews or the Christians are not the ones killing people the world over right now because they are diffrent and they are not the ones living in ancient times opressing people the world over, its Mohammads people who are.
If you have not been able to see all the people we have lifted up, delivered from opression and helped rebuild all over the world, you need to start looking outside the circle your in for the truth.
I agree not every follower is out to get us, but I would estimate its over 1% that want shria law and do want to see us dead. 1% of a billion is a million, we sure have not come close to defeating a million of them yet, so yes we are very much in harms way especially when some of you cant even face up to the facts and are not smart enough to keep yourself safe.
The US Constitution was built on the principle that those that lived under it would support it first and not try to use the powers it grants to destroy it. Shria law and much of the current pratices of Islam oppose the rights the US Constitution grants us by defaut of Islams own rules.
If you so want to see your freedoms go away, pack your shit and go.
Byte Stryke
08-26-2010, 21:56
So we got the Jew haters in here and the religon haters and a few America haters all chiming in. Sorry to see you all have learned nothing yet about our current situation.
The evil imperialist Americans or Gods chosen people the Jews or the Christians are not the ones killing people the world over right now because they are diffrent and they are not the ones living in ancient times opressing people the world over, its Mohammads people who are.
If you have not been able to see all the people we have lifted up, delivered from opression and helped rebuild all over the world, you need to start looking outside the circle your in for the truth.
I agree not every follower is out to get us, but I would estimate its over 1% that want shria law and do want to see us dead. 1% of a billion is a million, we sure have not come close to defeating a million of them yet, so yes we are very much in harms way especially when some of you cant even face up to the facts and are not smart enough to keep yourself safe.
The US Constitution was built on the principle that those that lived under it would support it first and not try to use the powers it grants to destroy it. Shria law and much of the current pratices of Islam oppose the rights the US Constitution grants us by defaut of Islams own rules.
If you so want to see your freedoms go away, pack your shit and go.
Wow...
Just
WOW
[Shock]
I won't even try to explain that much Bias.
rockhound
08-27-2010, 07:00
yes i mentioned britain, the numbers of people who actually belong to a group are irrelevant, the fact is they are becoming empowered and believe they have rights that are above the law of the land making them a danger to our freedoms. to dismiss them out of hand is to be naive to a fault.
three more men (muslim) were arrested yesterday in canada in a terror plot with multiple targets and the triggers for 50 bombs. follow up stories have already linked them to Al Qaeda.
"citing security sources, said the accused were part of a group of "dangerous radical Islamists"
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/08/26/ottawa-rcmp-arrest-folo.html?ref=rss
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/100826/canada/canada_attacks_arrest
GOD FORBID WE IDENTIFY OUR ENEMY. THIS POLITICALLY CORRECT BS WILL BE THE END OF US. [Bang]
StagLefty
08-27-2010, 07:07
I am not here to "battle" Anyone, I just think of how absurd it is that we can send men to the moon, Build Lasers rangefinders that will determine Ranges over miles in any weather with almost absolute accuracy. But we still believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that says we have to kill each other because he loves us...
Its almost as crazy as believing that hurricane Katrina happened because the God Poseidon/Allah/whatever was angry at the non-believers.
Kind of a double edged sword ???
But we still believe that there is an invisible man in the sky
Wow, that sounds like some serious contempt for religion. I refuse to get into a debate about religion, but I'll tell you that I once felt the same way and changed my mind. Everyone can have their opinions, and I love that about America, but it does sound like a battle when you put forth such a statement. For folks with no religious belief, and I was one of them, it may sound like a load of crap but it's a load of crap that 4/5ths of the world believes in (all religions).
atheists.
a group of people who have a certain common set of beliefs regarding the nature of the universe, and think that anyone who disagrees with them is wrong.
yeah. that's not like a religion at all.
Bailey Guns
08-27-2010, 07:36
To appease the Brits in the crowd I tried to come up with a sentence that included the words "colour", "behaviour" and "centre" but I couldn't.
To appease the mathematically challenged, 1% of a billion is 10 million.
I don't know how to appease the rest of the crowd.
Carry on.
rockhound
08-27-2010, 08:19
10 million,
this seems to a number the left is willing to dismiss a lot,
10 million illegals, 10 million islamic extremists, eh what can they do to us?
To appease the mathematically challenged, 1% of a billion is 10 million.
Carry on.
Ah you got me [Tooth]
Wow...
MY religon teaches love, not nessecarily peace. But through love, peace may come. MY religion tells me to love people into change. MY religon tells me to love the person but hate the sin. I love you all and I would fight next to y'all and die for y'all and the freedoms we have in this country.
All I ask is that people do their research. Stop using passages of the Bible or the Qua'ran/Koran/Torah/etc out of context.
Stuff like "God said go kill in x Kings xx:xx" is not true. It is a device used by people to scew facts and create a falsehood. If you'll read the verses around it you'll see that it's most often in context of a historical account of a war/occupation. Also, verses out of the Old Testment are not relevant since the "New covenant" (New Testament). oh bother...
It doesn't matter. The point is, we are all sinners. ALL. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
There are good Christians, there are bad Christians. There are good Muslims, there are bad Muslims.
IMO, Islam is not a religon to be "tolerated". Like Christianity, they are about converting people to their veiw. However, with Christianity it is taught with love, with Islam, it is taught with the sword.
Sorry to piss some of you off. I love our country and it is going to hell because people are too PC, too tolerant, and have no morals/standards or ethincs/values. There is no responsibilty and people don't recognize the concept of absolute truth anymore.
I'm done. Flame suit on. Probably won't respond. Take care. [Beer]
Byte Stryke
08-27-2010, 10:05
Kind of a double edged sword ???
Wow, that sounds like some serious contempt for religion. I refuse to get into a debate about religion, but I'll tell you that I once felt the same way and changed my mind. Everyone can have their opinions, and I love that about America, but it does sound like a battle when you put forth such a statement. For folks with no religious belief, and I was one of them, it may sound like a load of crap but it's a load of crap that 4/5ths of the world believes in (all religions).
atheists.
a group of people who have a certain common set of beliefs regarding the nature of the universe, and think that anyone who disagrees with them is wrong.
yeah. that's not like a religion at all.
weak spin.
I have my beliefs, Nowhere close to Atheist, they don't have a label.
My Beliefs also dont call for me to go out and Murder people that believe differently than I do, or oppress them into giving up their belief systems for mine.
But that was a nice assumption, however ill-founded, shallow-minded and incorrect it might be.
I Couldn't give a shit less what you believe or what name you give your god, that's your business. If you want to worship the flying spaghetti monster, that's your Business. If you come after others and want to Murder them, rape their women and bury their children in mass graves because some guy scribbles it down in a book and says its the word of (Insert Deity), THEN it becomes everyone's business.
My point is that all of these "religions" that profess violence against anyone that doesn't believe "exactly as They do then you need to be killed" are wrong. This is further twisted by Clerics, Popes, Immans to their own gain using the ignorant unwashed masses to do their bidding with promises of rewards in the afterlife and I have a problem with that. I Also have a problem with one group thinking its all the other guys fault because "we never do such thing, THEY are the Barbarians, not us!" when in truth, no one is without fault. No Church is without its Crimes and no Nation is without its Genocides and crimes.
It's Fear Mongering, Plain and Simple.
SA Friday
08-27-2010, 10:50
The detritus of religions discussed in this thread are many of the points that have led me to agnosticism. As I've gotten older, I just cannot overlook the shortfalls found in all religions, and have come to the conclusion they are more about controlling the masses and defining the privileged than they are about understanding anything.
BUT, I would be one of the first to defend any religion lawfully practiced in this country from unlawful acts. To define any religion as having the destructive power to destroy this country overlooks the underlying strength of it's citizens and the power of the constitution.
If you come after others and want to Murder them, rape their women and bury their children in mass graves because some guy scribbles it down in a book and says its the word of (Insert Deity), THEN it becomes everyone's business.
My point is that all of these "religions" that profess violence against anyone that doesn't believe "exactly as They do then you need to be killed" are wrong. This is further twisted by Clerics, Popes, Immans to their own gain using the ignorant unwashed masses to do their bidding with promises of rewards in the afterlife and I have a problem with that. I Also have a problem with one group thinking its all the other guys fault because "we never do such thing, THEY are the Barbarians, not us!" when in truth, no one is without fault. No Church is without its Crimes and no Nation is without its Genocides and crimes.
It's Fear Mongering, Plain and Simple.
So by your logic because somewhere down the line someone in our names commited wrongs, no amount of good can be done to recover from those wrongs so we must accept our fate as infidels and lay down and be destroyed and if we wont accept that fate we are fear mongers.
Just trying to feel you out here and understand where you actualy stand, was America wrong to drop the A-bombs on Japan?
9/11 was an inside job?
We owe the American indians for the land we took to create this country?
The southwest belongs to Mexico?
White people owe people of color because this country was built on the backs of slaves and they have yet to be given a fair shake at the American dream?
And let me add, at this point I'm in this for a friendly debate on what some people define as some touchy subjects, dont take it personal please and lets try and have a friendly discussion.
Byte Stryke
08-27-2010, 11:03
So by your logic because somewhere down the line someone in our names commited wrongs, no amount of good can be done to recover from those wrongs so we must accept our fate as infidels and lay down and be destroyed and if we wont accept that fate we are fear mongers.
Just trying to feel you out here and understand where you actualy stand, was America wrong to drop the A-bombs on Japan?
9/11 was an inside job?
We owe the American indians for the land we took to create this country?
The southwest belongs to Mexico?
White people owe people of color because this country was built on the backs of slaves and they have yet to be given a fair shake at the American dream?
I Dont know you but you are making a hell off allot of assumptions on my part and putting a shitload of words in my mouth. Ive said nothing of the sort.
and the word is "ACTUALLY" and "Committed" we call it spell-check
You don't owe me shit.
I'm Not speaking for others.
Wow, talk about straw-manning an argument. Byte never suggested anything of the sort.[Shock]
"Here let me make up some ridiculous examples that I claim logically follow from what you've said."
I'll play!!!
was America wrong to drop the A-bombs on Japan? No, I personally think we waited too long.
9/11 was an inside job? Not inside, but I feel like we didn't do everything we could've to stop it.
We owe the American indians for the land we took to create this country? I don't think we owe anyone anything. However, I do think we could lend them a little more respect and help. They are also "Americans".
The southwest belongs to Mexico? It will in a few decades... hahaha
White people owe people of color because this country was built on the backs of slaves and they have yet to be given a fair shake at the American dream? Bull, in today's age, blacks have the same chances as whites. I'd argue they even have a leg up in some instances (scholarships, etc).
And let me add, at this point I'm in this for a friendly debate on what some people define as some touchy subjects, dont take it personal please and lets try and have a friendly discussion. Ditto my friend, "Bring it"!! [Beer]
Wow, talk about straw-manning an argument. Byte never suggested anything of the sort.[Shock]
"Here let me make up some ridiculous examples that I claim logically follow from what you've said."
Ditto, Byte's a good guy. We can't all agree on everything. Don't make ASSumptions.
I'll play!!!
!!!WE HAEVE A WINNER!!!
As if I answered the questions myself.
Byte Stryke
08-27-2010, 11:19
And just on a side note, I believe I have gone on record with the A Bomb thing.
and just so its clear.
They started it, we finished it. We owe them nothing.
I Dont know you but you are making a hell off allot of assumptions on my part and putting a shitload of words in my mouth. Ive said nothing of the sort.
and the word is "ACTUALLY" and "Committed" we call it spell-check
You don't owe me shit.
I'm Not speaking for others.
I draw the conclusion from the comments, I dont like making assumptions and thats why I added the survey so I will know where you stand and I wont have to make any assumptions.
Friendly conversation please if you dont mind.
spell check huh, they make one of those [Tooth]
Byte Stryke
08-27-2010, 11:41
I draw the conclusion from the comments, I dont like making assumptions and thats why I added the survey so I will know where you stand and I wont have to make any assumptions.
Friendly conversation please if you dont mind.
spell check huh, they make one of those [Tooth]
your "Survey" was dripping with accusation and insinuation. Judging by the response I was not the only one that thought so.
assumption
Noun
1. a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not to play"
(synonym) premise, premiss
(hypernym) postulate, posit
(hyponym) major premise, major premiss
(derivation) assume, presume, take for granted
2. a hypothesis that is taken for granted; "any society is built upon certain assumptions"
(synonym) supposition, supposal
(hypernym) hypothesis, possibility, theory
(hyponym) conclusion
(derivation) assume, presume, take for granted
3. the act of taking possession of or power over something; "his assumption of office coincided with the trouble in Cuba"; "the Nazi assumption of power in 1934"; "he acquired all the company's assets for ten million dollars and the assumption of the company's debts"
(synonym) laying claim
(hypernym) acquisition
(derivation) assume, adopt, take on, take over
4. audacious (even arrogant) behavior that you have no right to; "he despised them for their presumptuousness"
(synonym) presumption, presumptuousness, effrontery
(hypernym) audacity, audaciousness
(hyponym) uppityness, uppishness
5. the act of assuming or taking for granted; "your assumption that I would agree was unwarranted"
(hypernym) act, human action, human activity
(hyponym) position
(derivation) assume, presume, take for granted
in case you were wondering
yes i mentioned britain, the numbers of people who actually belong to a group are irrelevant, the fact is they are becoming empowered and believe they have rights that are above the law of the land making them a danger to our freedoms. to dismiss them out of hand is to be naive to a fault.
Of course it's relevant. Your angle seemed to be "look what happens if we get all pc and wishy-washy" so the fact that a government that a lot of you would consider to be hard-core Stalinists because they're left of centre actually took the decidedly un-PC and anti First Amendment step of saying "this organization is now illegal and if you're a member, you're a criminal" renders your point moot.
If you were trying to demonstrate how Britain is slowly turning into an Islamic state because they're too soft on Muslims, you couldn't have chosen a worse example than an organization that hardly anyone was a member of, that did absolutely nothing other than release a few statements designed to garner attention, that everyone spoke out against (including other Muslims) and that was banned by the government.
And just on a side note, I believe I have gone on record with the A Bomb thing.
and just so its clear.
They started it, we finished it. We owe them nothing.
It's like Elhuero pointed out earlier in the thread. (Some) Liberals use the red-herring that if you're against the 'Ground Zero Mosque' you're a bigot as a way of controlling the conversation.
Similarly, some people try and control other conversations by suggesting that if your opinion doesn't correspond with theirs, you're anti-Semitic, anti-American, anti-Religious, anti-A-Bomb, pro-illegal immigrant, pro-reparations, pro-Sharia law, etc etc ad nauseum.
For some people everything is black and white. All Muslims are evil, all liberals are anti-gun, and all percentages they pull out of their asses are completely accurate.
your "Survey" was dripping with accusation and insinuation. Judging by the response I was not the only one that thought so.
Ok so you dont want to answer the quiz, I guess I will have to make assumptions.
For some people everything is black and white....and all percentages they pull out of their asses are completely accurate.
Did you know 80% of all percentages are made up?... ok, ok, it's really 76.5413%...
[Beer]
68Charger
08-27-2010, 12:05
But we still believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that says we have to kill each other because he loves us...
Its almost as crazy as believing that hurricane Katrina happened because the God Poseidon/Allah/whatever was angry at the non-believers.
It IS absurd that people believe this- None of the above is supported by the word of Christ.. that's not to say there aren't Christians who believe it... I have no problem discussing religion, I am not personally offended by anyone making blanket statements about any particular religion.
Think of it this way: Every different Christian (or Muslim, or any religious) denomination represents a disagreement between alleged "men of God"... Religion is a man-made institution, and therefore flawed... if everyone interpreted the bible (or whichever book their religion is based on) the same way, then there would only be the one denomination.
In my theology (also man-made, and therefore subject to imperfection- I'm only posting mine because I cannot completely articulate somone else's), the above Quote from Mr. Stryke is explained that God is not the only being that is trying to influence us humans... There is an enemy in our story, and he comes like a thief to steal, kill & destroy. There is Evil in the world- whether you think it comes from a Being, or it just exists, the Evil is undoubtedly present.
Why does God allow Evil to exist? Free will.
My inner geek sometimes wonders if this is just a "model" to represent how Evil is propagated, rather than a literal "Satan" sitting on a throne issuing orders to Demons (who were the 1/3 of the Angels that were cast down with him)... either way, this makes sense to me- I was Agnostic, and many things in life, religion & theology just didn't pass the logical "mustard" until this was factored in...
ChunkyMonkey
08-27-2010, 12:31
Happy Friday Everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
My latest comment on this topic,
1. STOP BRINGING IN CHRISTIAN VS MUSLIM. BOSNIA war etc etc etc at the end US and NATO helped the muslim. This is about ISLAM VS FREE WORLD! Not muslims, not christian, the theology and hard core belief of ISLAM itself are DANGEROUS. I have not been convinced otherwise!
2. Qu'Ran vs Bible: Again, Bible is a collection of writings that span years. Some of its content contradict itself. Qu-Ran on the other hand is written by Nabi Muhammad, who wrote it as set of commands and rules in which devout Muslims must follow. In the beginning of Qu'Ran there are phrases that the muslim should respect the Christians etc, however the 2nd half of it commands pretty much the destruction of all Kafirs. This part scares the shit out of me personally. How would one believe in this? Oh yeah perhaps those cartoons I watched about killing the jews and christian in order to go to 'heaven.' And this happened in supposedly very moderate muslim country, a US ally.
3. Play nice, enjoy your friday! :D
68Charger
08-27-2010, 14:03
My latest comment on this topic,
did you mean to say LAST?
1. STOP BRINGING IN CHRISTIAN VS MUSLIM. BOSNIA war etc etc etc at the end US and NATO helped the muslim. This is about ISLAM VS FREE WORLD! Not muslims, not christian, the theology and hard core belief of ISLAM itself are DANGEROUS. I have not been convinced otherwise!
I would be unable to convince you (or anyone) otherwise- I'll jump on the bandwagon that any religion contradicting free will by imposing their beliefs on anyone does not have my support (more on that later).
2. Qu'Ran vs Bible: Again, Bible is a collection of writings that span years. Some of its content contradict itself. Qu-Ran on the other hand is written by Nabi Muhammad, who wrote it as set of commands and rules in which devout Muslims must follow. In the beginning of Qu'Ran there are phrases that the muslim should respect the Christians etc, however the 2nd half of it commands pretty much the destruction of all Kafirs. This part scares the shit out of me personally. How would one believe in this? Oh yeah perhaps those cartoons I watched about killing the jews and christian in order to go to 'heaven.' And this happened in supposedly very moderate muslim country, a US ally.
Because the bible is a collection of writings (or books), that span many years, contradictions are going to occur, as circumstances change (i.e. OLD vs NEW testament) I have not read the Qu'Ran, but regardless of what any book says, man (under the influence of Evil) will pervert it (either intentionally or unintentionally) to suit their agenda/cause/needs/wants. If they want to peacefully believe whatever they want to believe, that is their right- as soon as they force it upon someone else, I'll take issue with it...
It again comes down to free will: Why would God want an involuntary subject? He desires the love & admiration of his followers- someone who is forced to practice a religion has no such love or admiration, they're simply going through the motions to prevent harm from coming to themselves or those that they do love... so anybody that is forcing a religion on someone is serving their own purposes, not those of God...
This is where religious wars come from- not from the will of God, but from the will of men using God's name in an attempt to justify their actions. Whether it was Muhammad who commands the evil, or other men's interpretation of the Qu'Ran that commands the evil is irrelevant- Muhammad was a man, a Prophet according to the Qu'Ran, but he is NOT God- so anything he "commands" in his writings would be subject to the flaws of man, and could be influenced by evil... as could the writings of anyone who wrote, translated, or quotes the bible (especially out of context) Many Christian denominations believe that the bible is the irrefutable word of God- to which I would ask: Which translation? Even the original text does not have the same meaning to anyone today, as language is a creation of Man, and is therefore fallible.
3. Play nice, enjoy your friday! :D
I'm not sure anyone wants to play with this topic anymore.. [NoEvil]
Again, Bible is a collection of writings that span years. Some of its content contradict itself.
Please show me this and your reasonings of why you think any part of the Bible contradicts itself. And yes, I've read both the Bible and Qu'ran (English version obvisouly) cover to cover.
Byte Stryke
08-27-2010, 14:39
Happy Friday Everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
My latest comment on this topic,
1. STOP BRINGING IN CHRISTIAN VS MUSLIM. BOSNIA war etc etc etc at the end US and NATO helped the muslim. This is about ISLAM VS FREE WORLD! Not muslims, not christian, the theology and hard core belief of ISLAM itself are DANGEROUS. I have not been convinced otherwise!
It is about the twisting and corruption of faith.
"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe, no explanation is possible."
2. Qu'Ran vs Bible: Again, Bible is a collection of writings that span years. Some of its content contradict itself. Qu-Ran on the other hand is written by Nabi Muhammad, who wrote it as set of commands and rules in which devout Muslims must follow. In the beginning of Qu'Ran there are phrases that the muslim should respect the Christians etc, however the 2nd half of it commands pretty much the destruction of all Kafirs. This part scares the shit out of me personally. How would one believe in this? Oh yeah perhaps those cartoons I watched about killing the jews and christian in order to go to 'heaven.' And this happened in supposedly very moderate muslim country, a US ally.The entirety of my point was trying to explain that the points of argument made against Islam and the quotes therein also exist in many other theologies and doctrines, to include "Orthodox Christian" (Thats why I Quoted the verses.)
I remember as a kid watching a "cartoon" in Sunday school about Stoning Prostitutes and Witches to death.
I'm not saying one is better or worse than the other, I am trying to point out exactly the opposite. Churches of ALL Disciplines have been corrupted at one time or another and to varying degrees of evil.
Nothing to do if I think 9/11 was perpetrated by the CIA or Masaad or Al-Qaeda ;)
3. Play nice, enjoy your friday! :DIf I could sell the stuff I have up for sale, I could afford ammo and I wouldn't be in the forums. I would be enjoying my Friday on a range! :)
The Qur'an, by the way, DOES NOT contradict itself. For people unfamiliar with Islam it seems to, because much of the beginning is about peace and love, while much of the later text is about killing the infidels. However, in Islam, the later writings abrogate the earlier ones where they conflict. This means that all the peace and happiness surahs are there only for reference, it has been abrogated by the later surahs.
Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89
O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54
Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39
Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:3
When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5
O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73
Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14
Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51
Also...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w
ChunkyMonkey
08-27-2010, 18:47
Please show me this and your reasonings of why you think any part of the Bible contradicts itself. And yes, I've read both the Bible and Qu'ran (English version obvisouly) cover to cover.
That's a whole other thread. The one that bothers me the most however is Exodus 15:3 and Roman 15:33. Bible however is series of stories - I understand how some contradict due to out of context.
This is where religious wars come from- not from the will of God, but from the will of men using God's name in an attempt to justify their actions. Whether it was Muhammad who commands the evil, or other men's interpretation of the Qu'Ran that commands the evil is irrelevant- Muhammad was a man, a Prophet according to the Qu'Ran, but he is NOT God- so anything he "commands" in his writings would be subject to the flaws of man, and could be influenced by evil
By your admission Islam is a false religion then? Everything in Qu-Ran is written by Muhammad and noone else.
I remember as a kid watching a "cartoon" in Sunday school about Stoning Prostitutes and Witches to death.
To watch the current events in cartoon with the evil/satan being potrayed by the US and Israeli constantly is a method of brainwashing the young IMHO.
I know I know.. we should end this topic.
theGinsue
08-27-2010, 20:38
I thought somebody told me this is a free country?And for order for that to be true;one of the ways is to practice religious tolerance.
[Help]
Your understanding of having freedoms is flawed. Yes, we are "free" to choose and practice our religions as we see fit - insofar as the government can do or say nothing to effect those choices. But, having those freedoms does NOT mean that every othger U.S. citizen has to tolerate your choice.
This is just like your right to freedom of speech. The government isn't supposed to be able to stop you from saying your piece, but that doesn't mean that, if your words disturb someone else that they won't come bust you in the chops for it.
ETA:
Religious tolerance has nothing to do with promoting hatred, stoning, jihad, and matyrdom.
Back to what I was saying, growing up in a muslim country, I think many people here do not understand how dangerous Islam is to the free world.
I fully agree with the first statement and wish to add that with every expression of freedom also comes responsibility. The responsibility of ensuring that exercising your freedoms don't infringe upon the rights of others to exercise their rights. The Muslim religion DOES promote such infringement, even if not every Muslim chooses to express their faith in that manner.
Regarding the second statement, * I * understand this very well, and with the direction things are going, I am afraid!
That's a whole other thread. The one that bothers me the most however is Exodus 15:3 and Roman 15:33. Bible however is series of stories - I understand how some contradict due to out of context.
If you'd like me to explain via PM so we don't drag out this thread any longer, I'd love to talk to you. I promise I won't prothelylize, just want to make sure you understand how in MY opinion, the Bible does NOT contradict itself... And I might be able to throw some interesting Biblical/archaelogical history your way too.
[Beer]
theGinsue
08-27-2010, 21:32
Bear, I believe what MB888 is saying is that the Bible can appear to contradict itself if you only take a verse from here and there and not entire passages. That can lead to the appearance of biblical contradictions. However, if you use entire passages and in some cases entire books of the Bible, there are no contradictions.
At least, I believe that is what MB888 was trying to say.
rockhound
08-28-2010, 00:37
Of course it's relevant. Your angle seemed to be "look what happens if we get all pc and wishy-washy" so the fact that a government that a lot of you would consider to be hard-core Stalinists because they're left of centre actually took the decidedly un-PC and anti First Amendment step of saying "this organization is now illegal and if you're a member, you're a criminal" renders your point moot.
If you were trying to demonstrate how Britain is slowly turning into an Islamic state because they're too soft on Muslims, you couldn't have chosen a worse example than an organization that hardly anyone was a member of, that did absolutely nothing other than release a few statements designed to garner attention, that everyone spoke out against (including other Muslims) and that was banned by the government.
you know you and i have had discussions similar to this before, and that is my point to some extent. the fact that you do not see the importance in every event is the problem.the fact is that these small tolerances keep happening over and over in the name of PCness and as they do our beliefs, our safety and our freedoms are being compromised by the attitudes that you seem to be infatuated with.
the irrelevance of any one act, event or incident can be waived off as being insignificant. taken as a whole they are dangerous and to simply waive them off as unimportant is again naive to a fault.
you are voluntarily burying your head in the sand which is exactly what they are counting on.
all of us (those that oppose the proliferation of islam within our borders) have already conceded that not every muslim is dangerous, but that doesn't seem to have hit home with you. no one is arguing that every muslim is a terrorist, but whenever someone shows even one of the ten thousand acts they have perpetrated as an example of how they are a threat you have some touchy feely reason why it should be ignored.
this discussion is moot as you have made up your mind to be overly tolerant. trying to be everyone's friend just doesn't work. they (again not every muslim) don't want to be your friend they ( the extremists) would just as soon see you and you family dead than speak to you. if you think that this is not true then you are already defeated.
Perhaps you can explain what should have been done then? If banning the organization and criminalizing all of its members is too tolerant and PC for you, what would you suggest? Cutting off their hands? Stoning them? Offering them the choice of conversion or death?
And when did I suggest that the event was unimportant? Clearly it's a very important event as it demonstrates that a wishy-washy, PC government of a country that (according to some here) is a generation away from being an Islamic state took a stand against Islamic extremists and said "we will not accept this happening within our own borders."
The problem is, you don't actually know what I think (other than that not every Muslim is an extremist, which you've just admitted you agree with) because it's easier for you to assume I think they're all misunderstood and we should just convert now to make it nice and painless.
HBARleatherneck
08-28-2010, 07:41
, all liberals are anti-gun, .
i would say you have made it clear that this statement is not true.
rockhound
08-28-2010, 09:54
I am not advocating anything of the sort. I do not wish to convert anyone I would have to have a religion to convert them to which I do not.
This discussion began on page one with Col. West defining or enemy pointedly and with eloquence. It then continued with persons who were defending the right of muslims in this country.
my point is and has always remained that their practices are dangerous. to continue to allow them to gain political and or cultural influence in our country is a serious problem.
these muslims that are pushing this mosque and spouting about rights seem to have conveniently forgotten the fact that they live in a country that interred the japanese during WWII.
they'd better convince their brother's sister's cousins twice removed to cool it with the terror planning.
if more americans die a la 9/11 they will be unhappy campers, constitution or no.
ChunkyMonkey
08-28-2010, 12:35
Perhaps you can explain what should have been done then? If banning the organization and criminalizing all of its members is too tolerant and PC for you, what would you suggest? Cutting off their hands? Stoning them? Offering them the choice of conversion or death?
No, silly Jake. But we don't have to hug and embrace them as our brother and sister and welcome them into our home. We ID them as threat and treat them as such. Again... only MHO. Until today, the DHS cannot pin down a profile of future Islamic terror threat, why? Because they range from a US citizen - non devout, alcohol drinking, pork eating muslim to hard core fresh off the Al Qaeda training camp in the middle of no where. To me it's clear, ANY Islam followers could decide he/she could be the true Muslim and go out in a bang in desperate situation.
Bear, I believe what MB888 is saying is that the Bible can appear to contradict itself if you only take a verse from here and there and not entire passages. That can lead to the appearance of biblical contradictions. However, if you use entire passages and in some cases entire books of the Bible, there are no contradictions.
Thanks Ginsue. You hit the spot.
To me it's clear, ANY Islam followers could decide he/she could be the true Muslim and go out in a bang in desperate situation.
Anyone who's been to college can tell you that ANY college student could decide to become an ecoterrorist and burn down a ski resort.
I understand what you are saying, and how you are feeling, but treating everyone based on "could be's" can create more problems than it solves.
Troublco
08-28-2010, 13:27
Wow, this went a lot longer than I thought it would. A lot of good discussion going on. And a lot of arguing. I do think MB888 has a point; look at Ft. Hood. An Army officer, Doctor for that matter, who happened to be muslim of Middle Eastern descent, who came to the conclusion that his religion took precedence over the laws of the country he was a citizen of and of the oath he took when he (voluntarily) joined. Not saying all would do what he did, but obviously it is a possibility that the same could happen again.
I do agree, one of the greatest thing about our Country is freedom of religion. I will make the observation that it is freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. We all have the freedom to choose our own, we don't have the right to prevent others from the free expression of theirs. If a child wants to pray in school, that's their business. It isn't someone's business to tell that child they can't. Even though some seem to think it is.
Hence the stoning and murders of the younger generation even here in US, no? Even some converting muslims from the western world are known to fight his/her own fellow countrymen in the name of Islam. Where have you been?
I think there are two main groups of people here in the U.S.I believe one group believes in the constitional rights of people here in the U.S.I think that the other group believes that if you are not a "Christian",you do not stand up to the "ideals"and "principles",of the United States of America. My question to you is, even though you may not agree with it :Do you believe the Muslims have the right to build a cultural center,with a prayer room,two blocks from "911 GROUND ZERO"?
"Extremist" attacks against us have been going on for a long time.
At the heart of the matter is israel. The muslim extremists hate us and want to kill us because we support the zionist, imperial oppression of the jews.
Many of the americans that support "palestine" (palestinian is a buzzword they are syrians) are liberal products of liberal university indoctrination who 100 years ago would have been thoroughly anti-semitic.
well, they still are thoroughly anti-semitic, but in today's politically correct world it's much better for them to be pro "palestine" (who are anti-israel) rather than just being anti-israel.
But every once in a while one will let their facade slip and show their true colors e.g. Helen Thomas.
show me a white, english speaking supporter of of "palestine" and you show me someone who deep down would be A-OK with the extermination of every jewish person. (either that or they're tappin' a muslim) It's not a pretty or nice sentiment. Which is why they keep it hidden. A deception which conveniently enough muslims are allowed by allah to do to further his religion.
MB888 made a great post about how bad the syrians in gaza are suffering. But they want the world to think they are struggling and suffering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL8ANySuSuk
calling people against the ground zero mosque 'bigots' is a red herring.
just like calling people for the AZ immigration law racists.
it's a cacophony of noise designed to intimidate and silence.
if you're an american muslim and think you're getting a raw deal in racist and bigoted U.S.A I invite you to expatriate your ass elsewhere or shut the fuck up. I think you are so much B.S.
ChunkyMonkey
08-28-2010, 15:47
I think there are two main groups of people here in the U.S.I believe one group believes in the constitional rights of people here in the U.S.I think that the other group believes that if you are not a "Christian",you do not stand up to the "ideals"and "principles",of the United States of America. My question to you is, even though you may not agree with it:DDo you believe the Muslims have the right to build a cultural center,with a prayer room,two blocks from "911 GROUND ZERO"?
First, I am not Christian. 2nd they have the right to build it on the ground zero for all I care, but as much as I do have the right to open gay bar, pork BBQ joint right next to it, or play the spangled banner outloud next to the mosque. But now it's back to the 'tolerance' part isnt it? It's within my right, but it's extremely unethical, intolerant, and a provocation for me to open something thats totally against Islam right next door.
Now, do you care to explain how the Israeli vs Palestinian, or being Christian or building mosque in the ground zero area have anything to do with my argument that ISLAM is dangerous to the free world? Middle East is not the largest Islamic region btw. Indonesia and China have the largest Islam followers in the world.
Stop changing the subject and put up a valid argument like many of these folks have done or give it a rest. :P
I have argued many times with Haj and imam locally here. So far they justify stoning, killing the kafirs (by not being against it), even as silly stuff as the women are lesser beings than men. Perhaps its my skin color, or where I come from -But I was approached to join the mosque congregation twice now in Aurora. Once it allowed me to discuss their belief openly in a group of 20 or so. It led me to believe that as moderate as they are, they will not condemn their fellow 'muslim extremists'. They support them financially and so on. The common answers when asked if they think 9/11 is a terrorist act - the first sentence out of their mouth typically starts with 'well it is US' fault....'
bobbyfairbanks
08-28-2010, 16:01
If you dont say no then you are saying yes. When it comes down to Muslims are crap subhumans. Look at how they treat each other.
I think you are so much B.S.
well excuse me while I reel from your finely crafted retort.
Don't worry I won't hold my breath for you to refute anything with facts. truth and logic are like the battlefield. ya'll haven't had much success in those areas for centuries.
just be glad I'm not sharing my views on the origin and doctrines of islam. you'd wind up looking like like this guy:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/elhuero/_42093952_kashmir-ap416.jpg
and as for your question "even though you may not agree with it:DDo you believe the Muslims have the right to build a cultural center,with a prayer room,two blocks from "911 GROUND ZERO"? "
my answer is hell no they don't. this isn't some poor, peaceful congregation that's being unfairly persecuted by christians, whites, or the government. these are terror apologists that are hiding behind what makes our country great and thumbing their nose at us, and those that perished in one of our worst tragedies. A tragedy that was done to honor the same god they want to honor now by building this thing.
we're supposed to play nice and be tolerant while at the same time comedy central has to censor themselves because they're getting death threats for having mohammed in a cartoon.
It seems to me this whole first amendment, freedom of expression, freedom of religion thing is a real one fucking way street with them.
so no, I don't think they have the right, and I don't give two dirty falafels for what they think they're entitled to.
They say freedom of religion is so important, well fine.
I'll support their lower manhattan mosque when they let christians and jews build churches and synagogues in mecca and medina.
have a great weekend.
BlasterBob
08-28-2010, 18:19
A friend of mine just started his own business............
He’s manufacturing landmines that look like prayer mats.
It’s doing real well.
He says Prophets are going through the roof.
bobbyfairbanks
08-28-2010, 18:40
A friend of mine just started his own business............
He’s manufacturing landmines that look like prayer mats.
It’s doing real well.
He says Prophets are going through the roof.
God damm that shit is funny
theGinsue
08-28-2010, 22:13
I do agree, one of the greatest thing about our Country is freedom of religion. I will make the observation that it is freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. We all have the freedom to choose our own, we don't have the right to prevent others from the free expression of theirs. If a child wants to pray in school, that's their business. It isn't someone's business to tell that child they can't. Even though some seem to think it is.
Agreed. You can't hear it, but I'm applauding you right now.
My question to you is, even though you may not agree with it:DDo you believe the Muslims have the right to build a cultural center,with a prayer room,two blocks from "911 GROUND ZERO"?
I'm with Elhuero on this. Maybe, just maybe they actually had a right to build their mosque on this site at one time, but their continued insensitivity is provocotive and the presence of a mosque on this site would create greater conflicts and carries with it an increased risk of retribution which means danger to many innocents who just happen to be in the area. To allow this project to go forward, knowing the risk of violence on both sides is irresponsible of the governments of NYC, New York state, and the fed's. No, they do not have that right.
Elhuero - I have rather enjoyed reading your posts on this matter (and others). Your passion and education are refreshing. Thank you.
Look folks, MB888 is right, Islam is dangerous. You tell me that I'm stereotyping - fine. Logic and common sense tell me I'm right on the mark with this.
When I was in High School I was the smallest kid in my class AND the class junior to me (yeah, I finally grew and filled out). I got picked on all of the time because I was an easy target. My dad had (he has since changed his views) a 100% NO FIGHTING policy - this included defending yourself. Because of this, I received more than my share of bumps, bruises, and split lips. To avoid as many bad situations as I could I learned how to read the nature of individuals and groups very well.
We lived out in the country and one day a bully who lived a mile away decided I was now his enemy. Because of my size and inability to defend myself, I always went out of my way to keep from offending others; it didn't matter. This bully used to get off of the school bus, get on his dirt bike and take a short-cut to beat the bus to my home. I would get beat at the end of my own driveway, often while the bus just sat there and everyone watched. I recall during those beating thinking "I hope my dad doesn't come home now and see me 'fighting'".
One day my dad learned about what was happening and insisted that somehow I was provoking the issue. I insisted that I was not. My dad told me that we were going to go to this bully's house to talk with him and his parents. I begged and pleaded to not do that. See, I knew that this kids behavior was a direct result of the attitudes and behaviors of his family - they were no better than he was. My dad relented and we never went over there, but he did call. The kids parents promised to handle it. The beatings got worse.
Several years later, a new neighbor kid (about 15 years old - the family moved in after I went off to college & the USAF) had his life and the lives of his parents threatened by several adults. While these adults were threatenting this kids life, they were also spitting on him and throwing rocks at him - all this for crossing the gravel road to get the mail. The kids parents came to my dad for help. My dad took a drive around the gravel road and ran into three of these adults who blocked the road with their ATV's and threatened my dads life.
Who were these adults? They were none other than the father and two uncles of the bully I had problems with several years earlier. While they had claimed they were good people and they condemned their sons behavior, they just hadn't felt the time was right to let their true colors show. Their sons behavoir was a direct representation of their beliefs and attitudes. The family shared the same propensity for doing harm to others. It was their very nature.
Folks, Islam is just like this family. I, for one, will not turn my back on them nor be lulled into believing that they mean us no harm. You see, I've already lived this scenario once in my life and I will not fall for it any more now than I did before - because my lip has been split one too many times already. I have just one thing to say to those of you who fail to see this - don't expect me to come to your aid later when I'm proven right because I'm sure to be too busy protecting myself from the bully and his family.
Troublco
08-28-2010, 22:53
The beautiful thing about our country (unlike many others, to include many in the middle east) is that we're free to voice our opinions.
Considering how many Islamic Extremists there are, and the fact that a U.S Army Officer who happened to be Muslim and a citizen of this country decided to join in, I believe we have reason to watch them. And while people in this country do enjoy many freedoms (and yes, those people have the technical right to build their mosque near ground zero) it's in extreme bad taste at best to do it. And they know it. I don't hear anyone railing that the Greek Orthodox church, which had a Church that was destroyed in the 9/11 attack and is now being treated poorly by the NYC Port Authority, should be treated better. But oh boy, we better be nice to the folks who want to build a shrine to the very people who destroyed the Twin Towers and killed hundreds (In the attempt to kill thousands) in its VERY SHADOW because they're just misunderstood. It's OK to bash Christians, and Jews, while we talk about how misunderstood the muslims are. Do I think all muslims are bad? No. But you certainly don't hear about Christian Homicide Bombers, do you? People say something that someone thinks is bad about muslims, and people leap to decry it. People say something bad about Christians, and it's just freedom of speech. There's a term for that, and it's called hypocrisy. Now before you begin to lynch me in effigy, I don't think that everyone who calls themselves a Christian is good, either.
The Westboro Baptist Church is a great example of this. They do so many things that contradict Christ's teachings, in my opinion, that I couldn't count them all. Do I like what they say, and do I agree with them? NO! Do they have the right to? Within the limits of the law, yes. I heartily disagree with what they like to do in certain cases. But they don't send out people equipped with explosive vests to blow up women and children in crowded marketplaces, either. But Islamic Extremists do!
Something I've noticed that a lot of people in our part of the world like to do is assign our values to others. These folks think that other peoples couldn't possibly think or do something because they themselves wouldn't, or couldn't. Well, it doesn't work that way. They do what they do, and think what they think, in spite of how we would like them to or choose to believe they do. Period.
Ginsue, El Huero, MB888, I'm with you.
But you certainly don't hear about Christian Homicide Bombers, do you?
Christian homicide bombers: the Irish Republican movement certainly had/have their fair share of those.
Christian (and Hindu) suicide bombers: the Black Tigers, trying to force Muslims out of their ethnic homeland.
Note: this post is not meant to imply that all Muslims are harmless, express support for the Park51 mosque, suggest that the Bible contradicts itself, propose that Barack Obama is a natural born US citizen, declare that I'm anti-Semitic, or advocate for the rights of illegal immigrants. Did that cover everything?
ChunkyMonkey
08-29-2010, 02:29
Christian homicide bombers: the Irish Republican movement certainly had/have their fair share of those.
Christian (and Hindu) suicide bombers: the Black Tigers, trying to force Muslims out of their ethnic homeland.
Black Tigers or LTTE rebellion were ethnic war - much like PPK's suicide terror campaign against the The Turkish.
The Irish Republican Army vs The British Army is political much like the FARC rebels against the Columbian Army.
These are suicide bombers who happened to be Buddist/Hindu/Christian/Muslim with different political goals. They did not do it in the name of Religion. Suicide bombing in the name of Islam is targeting non-believers. I cannot think of Christian suicide bomber who does it in the name of Jesus Christ. Obviously I hope all of these folks rot in hell for whatever reason they did it.
You are nitpicking, Jake! [Tooth]
These are suicide bombers who happened to be Buddist/Hindu/Christian/Muslim with different political goals. They did not do it in the name of Religion.
If Muslim suicide bombers were doing this strictly in the name of Religion, then every person in every country in the world would be a potential target. Maybe they are. Either way, we're on top of the list for more than just religious reasons.
ChunkyMonkey
08-29-2010, 02:43
I agree.. but ultimately killing Kafirs is the main motivation (guaranteed heaven ticket and virgins!). Even those with political goal to gain will use Islam to convince their followers to do so - therefor my reasoning why ISLAM is such a dangerous religion.
ZzzZZzz...
You are nitpicking, Jake! [Tooth]
Perhaps. I only found out about the religion of the Tamil Tigers a few days ago and it surprised me to learn they were Hindus and Christians. I just thought it was interesting. Although if you're going to undertake a suicide attack without some kind of unshakable faith in an afterlife and that your deity is going to be smiling upon your actions...
Oh, and regarding the Irish Republican movement, I was talking more about the targeting of civilians based on their religion rather than attacking military targets. And I also should have pointed out that the Loyalist movement were doing the same thing.
Troublco
08-29-2010, 09:08
The Irish were catholic vs. protestant, mostly. Some of it was directed at the British, whom some of them considered an occupying force. One difference there is that they were not taking it elsewhere, attacking other countries just because they considered them the "Great Satan". Theirs was more like the Shiite and Sunni ideological difference, and I don't profess to understanding either set of group's reasoning.
Byte Stryke
08-29-2010, 10:45
Theirs was more like the Shiite and Sunni ideological difference, and I don't profess to understanding either set of group's reasoning.
Each sect believes that they should have "inherited" the Islamic church at the Passing of the prophet
Byte Stryke
08-29-2010, 10:52
Note: this post is not meant to imply that all Muslims are harmless, express support for the Park51 mosque, suggest that the Bible contradicts itself, propose that Barack Obama is a natural born US citizen, declare that I'm anti-Semitic, or advocate for the rights of illegal immigrants. Did that cover everything?
So what you are saying is that we should lose our Guns right and Rosie O'Donnell is hot?
You Believe that Gay Sex is Obligatory and not a choice?
You think The Ku Klux Klan should be a valid and legal political party?
c'mon answer the survey
/Sarcasm
[ROFL1]
Note: this was a spoof on an earlier post by JIM02
ChunkyMonkey
08-29-2010, 12:56
Perhaps. I only found out about the religion of the Tamil Tigers a few days ago and it surprised me to learn they were Hindus and Christians. I just thought it was interesting. Although if you're going to undertake a suicide attack without some kind of unshakable faith in an afterlife and that your deity is going to be smiling upon your actions...
Oh, and regarding the Irish Republican movement, I was talking more about the targeting of civilians based on their religion rather than attacking military targets. And I also should have pointed out that the Loyalist movement were doing the same thing.
Now that what I would call a perversion. Such as this one....
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/08/29/INF21F2Q9H.DTL
sickening!!!
Here's a terrorist you'll like...
http://i.imgur.com/zhNGM.jpg
How do I know she's a terrorist? Well she's wearing a Hijab in Iran, so she's Muslim; and by the logic of many posters in this thread, she therefore must be a terrorist.
H.
Troublco
08-29-2010, 16:42
Hey, Hoosier. Big diff between saying that some should be watched, and saying that all of them are automatically terrorists. But since you're right and we're wrong, and we obviously can't see it, I guess I'll just have to live with that.
ChunkyMonkey
08-29-2010, 17:18
Here's a terrorist you'll like...
How do I know she's a terrorist? Well she's wearing a Hijab in Iran, so she's Muslim; and by the logic of many posters in this thread, she therefore must be a terrorist.
H.
[ROFL2]
Come on Hoosier, reread the whole 13 some pages of discussion if you must instead of trying to negate the argument on hand. We should close this thread.. its becoming irrelevant.
I bet she's a demon in the sack.
Byte Stryke
08-29-2010, 22:54
I bet she's a demon in the sack.
Considering who she is flipping off, I'll bet you'd have to be a necrophiliac to find out.
who's up for a cold one?
[Puke]
Big diff between saying that some should be watched, and saying that all of them are automatically terrorists.
I disagree. There's no difference in stereotyping all billion Muslims as terrorists and saying they "should be watched." If you say, "This individual is a Wahabi Muslim from Saudi Arabia, who has been to Yemen and Pakistan" then that individual should be watched. There's a large difference between selecting an individual where their belief in a particular branch of radical Islam, and saying watch all of them. There aren't the resources to watch them all, and attempting to do so means ones who intend harm are going to have an easier time of it.
Yes, this thread has run it's course. I tried twice to make an exit with a bit of humor, so here's my last go at it:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-already-knows-everything-he-needs-to-know-abou,17990/
Perhaps The Onion surfs CO-AR15 to find material. I promise I don't work for them.
H.
In a grand attempt close this thread and to quote another user on this forum:
I LIKE PIE :).
Byte Stryke
08-30-2010, 11:34
In a grand attempt close this thread and to quote another user on this forum:
I LIKE PIE :).
Mincemeat Pies are Terrorists and secretly backed 9/11 and many attacks on U.S. Embassies.
:D
Troublco
08-30-2010, 11:38
I disagree.
Yes, I noticed. [Tooth]
Yes, this thread has run it's course.
I absolutely agree!
I LIKE PIE :).
[ROFL1]
Hey, somebody close this thread before it starts again!
Troublco
08-30-2010, 11:40
Mincemeat Pies are Terrorists and secretly backed 9/11 and many attacks on U.S. Embassies.
:D
No wonder I never liked mincemeat......[Tooth]
But homemade Southern style blueberry cobbler is good! Might not be considered a "pie"... but ya can't beat a good cobbler.
Troublco
08-30-2010, 11:45
Oh, man. Cherry cobbler, peach cobbler......great, now I'm drooling.
ChunkyMonkey
08-30-2010, 11:47
Oh, man. Cherry cobbler, peach cobbler......great, now I'm drooling.
BBQ Ribs or hot wings must precede any kind of cobbler in my book!
Troublco
08-30-2010, 11:54
BBQ Ribs or hot wings must precede any kind of cobbler in my book!
Well, YEAH!
Ribs sound good.
And somehow we've overlooked the ice cream to go with the cobbler......
ChunkyMonkey
08-30-2010, 11:58
must be lunch time... REAL HUNGRY NOW
Troublco
08-30-2010, 11:59
Yeah, time to go find something to eat.
Troublco
08-30-2010, 12:04
What time?
[ROFL1]
For me to know, and you to hope you guess right.[LOL]
Byte Stryke
08-30-2010, 12:36
Proof that Mincemeat pie is connected to terrorists!
http://bsdgames.com/site/album_pic.php?pic_id=286&user_id=9
[ROFL1]
5 minutes and an elements copy of "photochop"
BBQ Ribs or hot wings must precede any kind of cobbler in my book!
And somehow we've overlooked the ice cream to go with the cobbler......
When's the party?... [Beer]
theGinsue
08-30-2010, 15:50
But homemade Southern style blueberry cobbler is good! Might not be considered a "pie"... but ya can't beat a good cobbler.
Agreed. My favorite is my grandmothers recipe of blackberry cobbler - picked just that morning (and hopefully without getting too many chiggers).
Ribs Tonight..
[Tooth]
BULLY!
That's just plain gasto-terrorism.
I have you all beat.
My grand parents (dad's side) were farmers... cows and tobacco/grain. Every summer we'd go work the farm.
Dinners were fresh steaks, homemade corn/green beans, homemade garlic potatoes (mashed or whole), homegrown salad, and an ice cold sweet southern ice tea with (honestly!!!) hand turned homemade icecream. Grandma could cook, rest her soul! And so can my mom! mmmmhmmmm.
well excuse me while I reel from your finely crafted retort.
Don't worry I won't hold my breath for you to refute anything with facts. truth and logic are like the battlefield. ya'll haven't had much success in those areas for centuries.
just be glad I'm not sharing my views on the origin and doctrines of islam. you'd wind up looking like like this guy:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/elhuero/_42093952_kashmir-ap416.jpg
and as for your question "even though you may not agree with it:DDo you believe the Muslims have the right to build a cultural center,with a prayer room,two blocks from "911 GROUND ZERO"? "
my answer is hell no they don't. this isn't some poor, peaceful congregation that's being unfairly persecuted by christians, whites, or the government. these are terror apologists that are hiding behind what makes our country great and thumbing their nose at us, and those that perished in one of our worst tragedies. A tragedy that was done to honor the same god they want to honor now by building this thing.
we're supposed to play nice and be tolerant while at the same time comedy central has to censor themselves because they're getting death threats for having mohammed in a cartoon.
It seems to me this whole first amendment, freedom of expression, freedom of religion thing is a real one fucking way street with them.
so no, I don't think they have the right, and I don't give two dirty falafels for what they think they're entitled to.
They say freedom of religion is so important, well fine.
I'll support their lower manhattan mosque when they let christians and jews build churches and synagogues in mecca and medina.
have a great weekend. I believe that Saudia Arabia has a few small rooms they call Christian churches;but I'm not so sure about Synagogues.But even if other Muslim countries banned them;with the power of the Internet ,It will help bring about the downfall of there dictatorships.For example, look at Iran;with the quasi-elite heads of power quashing a popular born rebellion.That civilian borne rebellion will I hope , be hard to stop. Our U.S. Constitution gives the right to express their freedom of religion regardless of whether it's two blocks from ground zero,or not .Meanwhile the whole world is watching;and if we deny the Muslims from building a Cultural Center with a Muslim prayer room there ;it would be a major recruitment tool for AL QUEEDA.Do you want to be a major recruitment tool for AL QUEEDA? "Homie don't think so". Also, it would be a major incentive to some of the people here in the U.S., who believe that if this cultural center is banned near GROUND ZERO,"There are two thousand more mosques to go";which is already starting to happen here in the U.S.:Texas,Tennesee,California,etc,etc.;which would be another tool for AL QUEEDA.My perception is ,that your opinions on this subject, are based on "old school ethnic politics";which I and Mayor Bloomberg loathe. It's been nice talking to ya .
theGinsue
08-30-2010, 17:27
I have you all beat.
My grand parents (dad's side) were farmers... cows and tobacco/grain. Every summer we'd go work the farm.
Dinners were fresh steaks, homemade corn/green beans, homemade garlic potatoes (mashed or whole), homegrown salad, and an ice cold sweet southern ice tea with (honestly!!!) hand turned homemade icecream. Grandma could cook, rest her soul! And so can my mom! mmmmhmmmm.
Get the recipes and (equally important) the techniques from your mom while you can. I really wish I had learned more from my grandmother regarding cooking while she was with us.
I believe that Saudia Arabia has a few small rooms they call Christian churches
Well, this is a real surprise to me since even our military chaplains weren't allowed to wear the Christian cross on their uniforms in Saudi and no one was allowed to wear a cross anywhere on their person if it was visible.
To make matters worse, we had an entire "care" package to one of my troops confiscated because it contained (get this) Little Debbie "Christmas tree" cakes - which we had removed from the box to (we thought) eliminate any problems along these lines.
This all occurred when we (the U.S.) was in Saudi to help stave off the potential aggression from Hussein's Iraqi forces (you know, to protect their a$$e$).
Not exactly what I would classify as "tolerant" of other non-Muslim religions.
Supporting documentation:
http://www.justlanded.com/english/Saudi-Arabia/Saudi-Arabia-Guide/Legal-System/Introduction[/url]]
Saudi Arabia imposes the strictest punishments in the region on those convicted of breaking Sharia law and has religious police in addition to general police.
It’s vital that foreigners make themselves aware of the conduct required while living in Saudi Arabia, and particularly the following offences:
Men being in the company of women who aren’t close relatives.
Women being with men other than close relatives, who are treated as prostitutes and can be deported with a ‘persona non grata’ endorsement in their passports, forbidding them from returning to any Gulf state.
Women driving cars.
‘Indiscreet’ dress (e.g. shorts or short-sleeved shirts for men, and uncovered hair, short dresses, exposed arms and shoulders for women).
Practising a religion other than Islam, carrying a Bible, wearing a cross.
Blasphemy, particularly if you swear at a Muslim, making derogatory remarks about Islam, taking the name of Allah or the Prophet Mohammed in vain, and any form of behaviour that’s deemed to be ‘immoral’. ................
.
.
.
.
In Saudi Arabia freedom of religious expression is barred for all faiths apart from Islam. Public acts such as holding a Bible, wearing a cross, carrying a rosary or praying are outlawed.
In theory the Saudi authorities allow private devotions to non-Muslims, but the religious police often take a tougher line in practice.
On 23 April 2005, the Muttawa arrested 40 Pakistani nationals for celebrating a Catholic mass in a private house.
Out of a Saudi population of around 21.6 million people, Muslims make up 97.3 per cent of the total, while Christians constitute 3.7 per cent, almost all from India, Sri Lanka, the Philippines and Egypt.
Saudi Arabiaís economy heavily depends on migrant workers, but although they are allowed to work, they are not allowed to profess their beliefs.
Proof that Mincemeat pie is connected to terrorists!
http://bsdgames.com/site/album_pic.php?pic_id=286&user_id=9
[ROFL1]
5 minutes and an elements copy of "photochop"
Ok, now, seriously, how much frickin spare time do you actually HAVE in a day to be cookin up this kind of Photoshopping?
Troublco
08-30-2010, 19:14
Ok, now, seriously, how much frickin spare time do you actually HAVE in a day to be cookin up this kind of Photoshopping?
Well, if I was guessing I'd have to say about an hour for prep, 45-50 minutes at 425', another hour to cool, 15 minutes to cut, photograph, and consume, followed by 5 or 10 minutes alone with photoshop.
Was I close?
[ROFL1]
Troublco
08-30-2010, 19:18
Get the recipes and (equally important) the techniques from your mom while you can. I really wish I had learned more from my grandmother regarding cooking while she was with us.
Key on the techniques. My Grandmother, and mom, taught me how to make sopapillas and if I hadn't watched them and gotten the pointers I'd never be able to do it.
ChunkyMonkey
08-30-2010, 20:07
Techniques indeed... I was taught how to scoop Chinese food accurately down to the microgram. For non-tippers, I scoop more onion than beef for you.
http://www.dragoart.com/tuts/pics/5/426/how-to-draw-po-from-kung-fu-panda.jpg
I believe that Saudia Arabia has a few small rooms they call Christian churches;but I'm not so sure about Synagogues.But even if other Muslim countries banned them;with the power of the Internet ,It will help bring about the downfall of there dictatorships.For example, look at Iran;with the quasi-elite heads of power quashing a popular born rebellion.That civilian borne rebellion will I hope , be hard to stop. Our U.S. Constitution gives the right to express their freedom of religion regardless of whether it's two blocks from ground zero,or not .Meanwhile the whole world is watching;and if we deny the Muslims from building a Cultural Center with a Muslim prayer room there ;it would be a major recruitment tool for AL QUEEDA.Do you want to be a major recruitment tool for AL QUEEDA? "Homie don't think so". Also, it would be a major incentive to some of the people here in the U.S., who believe that if this cultural center is banned near GROUND ZERO,"There are two thousand more mosques to go";which is already starting to happen here in the U.S.:Texas,Tennesee,California,etc,etc.;which would be another tool for AL QUEEDA.My perception is ,that your opinions on this subject, are based on "old school ethnic politics";which I and Mayor Blomberg loathe. It's been nice talking to ya .
al-qaeda is gonna do what they're gonna do.
the "well we can't do that because that will make them mad and they will use it as a recruitment tool" is bullshit appeasement.
Us not converting to islam is a recruitment tool for them. So fuck em.
I'm just speaking my mind, which I'm allowed to do. And I absolutely refuse to edit my mindset to be "politically correct"
See, you have to understand where I'm coming from.
White, middle class, Christian, tax payer, gun owner, great credit, law abider.. yet it's somehow always my fault. I do not go out of my way to persecute or hate anyone.
Yet I disagree with obama, so I'm a racist. I think islam is bullshit, so I'm a bigot.
Well if I'm the bad guy then I'm going to own the role. Again, fuck em.
It's a two way street.
Tolerate my intolerance.
White, middle class, Christian, tax payer, gun owner, great credit, law abider.. yet it's somehow always my fault.
I tick all the same boxes and my life is a breeze. No one blames me for anything and I stroll through my day with a big smile on my face. I wonder what's different between us :D
I tick all the same boxes and my life is a breeze. No one blames me for anything and I stroll through my day with a big smile on my face. I wonder what's different between us :D
you didn't get fired from your last job for being white.
I figured it was a the lady killer accent.
you didn't get fired from your last job for being white.
If you have proof you were fired because of your skin color, you have a court case. Document it and lawyer up.
White, middle class, Christian, tax payer, gun owner, great credit, law abider.. yet it's somehow always my fault. I do not go out of my way to persecute or hate anyone.
Who's blaming you? Why are you accepting that blame? Anyone who blames you for stuff you didn't do, tell them to stfu. Don't feel guilty about it.
Yet I disagree with obama, so I'm a racist. I think islam is bullshit, so I'm a bigot.
No no, you're only a racist if you disagree with Obama because he's black. If you disagree with him because you think the government shouldn't invest a trillion dollars into the economy, more power to you. By the same token, you're only a bigot if you hate Muslims for simply being Muslim. If you hate the Muslims who flew airplanes into buildings, you have a heart and a mind.
Life always has problems, lets just be careful about who we blame for them.
Cheers!
H.
ghettodub
08-31-2010, 09:20
If you have proof you were fired because of your skin color, you have a court case. Document it and lawyer up.
Who's blaming you? Why are you accepting that blame? Anyone who blames you for stuff you didn't do, tell them to stfu. Don't feel guilty about it.
No no, you're only a racist if you disagree with Obama because he's black. If you disagree with him because you think the government shouldn't invest a trillion dollars into the economy, more power to you. By the same token, you're only a bigot if you hate Muslims for simply being Muslim. If you hate the Muslims who flew airplanes into buildings, you have a heart and a mind.
Life always has problems, lets just be careful about who we blame for them.
Cheers!
H.
well said
The Irish were catholic vs. protestant, mostly. Some of it was directed at the British, whom some of them considered an occupying force. One difference there is that they were not taking it elsewhere, attacking other countries just because they considered them the "Great Satan". Theirs was more like the Shiite and Sunni ideological difference, and I don't profess to understanding either set of group's reasoning.
I believe,with great sorrow,and I hope it's not true;that the Irish Republican Army,during WW11,was allied to Hitler's Nazi Germany;by giving crictical information,about U.S. & British sea convoys to the Nazi's? The IRA also bombed Great Britain during the "troubles". Can somebody please back me up,or enlighten me on this topic. THANKS
The IRA did liaise with the Germans during the Second World War, but it wasn't really to any great effect and I think they were more exploited for their nuisance value than anything else.
And yes, the PIRA conducted a bombing campaign on the mainland up until the ceasefires in 2005. My first sight of a real gun (Steyr AUG carbines) was going to London and seeing armed police manning checkpoints after they bombed the City in the early 90s.
One difference between the US and the UK is that you don't see off-duty soldiers wearing their uniforms as they travel like we do here. This is because of the threat from the PIRA in the 70s and the order has never been rescinded, although I think they're starting to relax the guidelines now there's relative peace.
ChunkyMonkey
08-31-2010, 15:35
Censored.
ChunkyMonkey
08-31-2010, 15:42
Crap... this thing is back alive!
http://www.kgcreative.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Its-Alive.jpg
It's AAA-LIIIIIIVVVVEEEEEE!!!!!
StagLefty
08-31-2010, 16:24
http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab49/StagLefty/Knives/doubleunseen.jpg
Kinda like this thread !!!
Byte Stryke
08-31-2010, 16:52
Crap... this thing is back alive!
QUICK! MORE PIE!
http://www.ruthys.com/store/images/apple%20pie.jpg
http://www.ruthys.com/store/images/blueberry%20pie.jpg
http://www.ruthys.com/store/images/pecan%20pie.jpg
[LOL]
http://www.nefariousfilms.com/Images/Monsters/chucky.jpg
Troublco
08-31-2010, 20:07
OOOOOHHHHHHHH!! Was that a Blackberry in the middle? DIBS!
theGinsue
09-01-2010, 06:59
I call first slice on the pecan!
mmmmhmmm.... blueberry pie....
Elhuero - I have rather enjoyed reading your posts on this matter (and others). Your passion and education are refreshing. Thank you.
thanks man, grats on the new mod gig.
HBARleatherneck
09-01-2010, 10:34
muslims hate pie. and under sharia it would be banned.
ChunkyMonkey
09-01-2010, 11:10
http://www.themoviescene.co.uk/reviews/_img/21-2.jpg
Troublco
09-01-2010, 19:32
http://www.themoviescene.co.uk/reviews/_img/21-2.jpg
I knew at some point this would be brought up. [ROFL1]
You know, that looks a lot like Ginsue........[ROFL2]
theGinsue
09-02-2010, 00:27
Nawe, that guy has too much hair on his head and not nearly enough on his a.....
Well, you get the picture.
Nawe, that guy has too much hair on his head and not nearly enough on his a.....
Well, you get the picture.
:).
here's a late afternoon triscuit to go with the pie
http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/211477/Islamization-of-Paris-a-Warning-to-the-West.html
Byte Stryke
09-04-2010, 22:08
Damn ElHuero and his Triscuits!
:D
ChunkyMonkey
09-05-2010, 10:43
Triscuit and butter aint so bad!
http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=85024&catid=13
Mr. Muzzammil Hassan came from Pakistan at the age of 17 and had founded a pro Islam television station to combat the negative image of Muslims .
In February 2009 Asiya Zubair, his wife, was allegedly stabbed and beheaded by her husband. Asiya had recently filed for divorce and obtained a restraining order on her husband, Muzzammil Hassan, claiming years of abuse by him towards her.
It was claimed that Mr. Hassan was under great stress due to financial problems and was worried about the station's future and that caused him to allegedly stab and behead his wife. His trial has again been rescheduled because he is claiming spousal abuse for many years by his wife, the woman he beheaded.
Justified by Qu'ran!
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