The EPA is considering banning lead bullets

[Gritty]

Taken from: Associated Content news article, EPA Considering Banning Lead Bullets (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5726574/epa_considering_banning_lead_bullets_pg2.html?cat= 9)


"The EPA is apparently considering banning ammunition made out of lead, the idea being that it is an environmental hazard. One cannot decide whether this is an end run around the Second Amendment, or just another example of environmental lunacy.

Probably a little of both. According to the National Shooting Sports Foundation (http://www.nssfblog.com/epa-considering-ban-on-traditional-ammunition-take-action-now/):

"With the fall hunting season fast approaching, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) under Lisa Jackson, who was responsible for banning bear hunting in New Jersey, is now considering a petition by the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) - a leading anti-hunting organization - to ban all traditional ammunition under the Toxic Substance Control Act of 1976, a law in which Congress expressly exempted ammunition. If the EPA approves the petition, the result will be a total ban on all ammunition containing lead-core components, including hunting and target-shooting rounds. The EPA must decide to accept or reject this petition by November 1, 2010, the day before the midterm elections"

Even better, bullets made of substances other than lead are considered armor-piercing cop killer bullets. In effect, the EPA will not ban the private ownership of firearms, a proposal which runs counter to the Second Amendment to the US Constitution and has proven highly unpopular, but will just ban bullets. Hence we can have all the guns we want. We just can't shoot them, either at targets, or at tasty animals in the wild.

The political tomfoolery of this proposal in an election cycle in which Americans are already incandescent against the government is simply mind boggling. One can only imagine being a Democratic Congressman or Senator in a red district or state and hearing about this. The temptation to slit one's wrists at this point must be overpowering.

Imagine what Sarah Palin, avid hunter and sportswoman, will have to say when she hears about this one. It will not be pretty.

The ancient Greeks talked about hubris, that overweening pride that makes one think one can do anything, even wield the power of a god. Hubris seems to be the overwhelming characteristic of government, not only on the federal level, but in some state and local governments as well. One would think that people, like government bureaucrats, who went to college would know what invariably happens after hubris.

Nemesis, as the Greek's understood it, was the punishment that the gods inflicted on mortal men for having hubris. The Greek gods do not exist, of course, but one suspects that those people President Obama once accused of "bitterly clinging to their God and their guns" know a thing or two about inflicting nemesis that their alleged betters seem to have forgotten.

But will the political class, like a Greek headed for Tartarus, learn its lesson? Likely not, or, if so, not for long. Elections are lessons that have to be taught over and over again. That is why they are scheduled on a regular basis.

Source:

EPA Considering Ban on Traditional Ammunition — Take Action Now, Larry Keane, National Shooting Sports Foundation, August 25th 2010"


Discuss.

[BigBear]

I vote for enviromental lunacy....

[Gritty]

I vote for enviromental lunacy....

+1

[rammit]

so while civilians cant shoot their guns because we apparently we pollut way to much,the military can continue to dump thousands upon thousands of lead core rounds into the ground? thats cool......

[Irving]

Every damn Lisa I've ever known has always been a gun-grabbing, rights hating, lesbian.

Perhaps the dems will shy away from this like they did gun grabbing at the beginning of 2009.

[BigBear]

I knew a Lisa that was a cheerleader and played the flute.... very pretty and talented. She liked guns....

[Hoosier]

bullets made of substances other than lead are considered armor-piercing cop killer bullets

Any citation for this statement? I've been buying frangible ammo like this http://www.sinterfire.com/ because it's less likely to spray back at me when shooting steel, and because lead is nasty stuff.

You all wash your hands after handling non FMJ, right? I know the military is moving to non-lead rounds for target practice, because the shooting ranges end up having huge quantities of lead leach into the soil. It's not the kind of thing you want in your water supply.

But really I think they're just interesting rounds. They behave very differently depending on what they hit. If they hit a soft target, they penetrate and then come apart. If they hit a hard target, they just disintegrate. It's what people are using for those 360 degree shoot houses.

H.

[BigBear]

I'm assuming they have a chalk mark or something upon hard impact?...

[Hoosier]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E0MtPbipzQ

[BigBear]

Didn't see a mark or anything....

[SA Friday]

Any citation for this statement? I've been buying frangible ammo like this http://www.sinterfire.com/ because it's less likely to spray back at me when shooting steel, and because lead is nasty stuff.

You all wash your hands after handling non FMJ, right? I know the military is moving to non-lead rounds for target practice, because the shooting ranges end up having huge quantities of lead leach into the soil. It's not the kind of thing you want in your water supply.

But really I think they're just interesting rounds. They behave very differently depending on what they hit. If they hit a soft target, they penetrate and then come apart. If they hit a hard target, they just disintegrate. It's what people are using for those 360 degree shoot houses.

H.
[/font]
Lead exposure from bullets is virtually zero; handling, reloading, picking them up off the ground after shooting them... The lead exposure comes from the chemicals in the modern day primer as it's vaporized lead and inhaled.

I tested high for lead a couple of years back. The USAF medical types freaked out. Said I had to stop reloading and shooting. I stopped shooting at an indoor range I was using to practice at during the winter months, nothing else. I tested at normal levels after 6 months (and I shot at least four cases of ammo during that time at outdoor ranges). The range had bad air circulation and I was breathing in the lead vapors.

frangible ammo means nothing for lead exposure if you are using std primers in the ammo.

[Irving]

That's good info, but let's remember that 0 of the 1,000's of specialty interest groups care about people at all. They care about the planet, animals, the water table, resources, publicity, money, etc; but not people.

[SA Friday]

That's good info, but let's remember that 0 of the 1,000's of specialty interest groups care about people at all. They care about the planet, animals, the water table, resources, publicity, money, etc; but not people.
Understanding the bullshit and being able to counter it with solid science is a pretty good way to shut down this kind of stuff.

Short of eating paint chips, lead exposure is pretty hard to prove a problem. Even after banning lead shot in waterfowl hunting, all the studies have shown it had no impact to the issues it was supposed to 'make better'.

There's simply too much "oh, that's a good idea" instead of "ok, show me the empirical evidence this will make a difference" in the branches of the Govt that should be leading the way through scientific discovery. Once you get to the politican level in the EPA, FDA, Dept of Ag, etc, they brain-dump scientific method at the door and go into politician mode.

[Mtn.man]

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?id=5516219

[Gritty]

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?id=5516219

It's great how the EPA is very defensive about it now after the issue was called out.

[Irving]

September 03, 2010, 5:08 PM EDT- 1 hour ago;
CALIFORNIA - A new study is examining hunting and military firearms stocks/parts (the part of a firearm that comes in contact with the hands and face) and plastic-tipped bullets to determine if there is leaching of potentially harmful bisphenol A, an endocrine-disrupting chemical.

Although environmental scientists maintain that the forms of plastics that can leak out bisphenol A may not be found in certain firearms, plastic-tipped bullets and other parts, they bring in to question whether arms and ammunition manufacturers have looked into the matter and how much Government intervention there should be to protect public and private firearms users and the environment.

The toxicity for our military and hunting fraternity, as well as, wildlife is still very much in debate since the amounts found in some plastics were well below the Environmental Protection Agency’s standards; however, a few scientists maintain that this type of chemical could cause behavioral and neurological problems if exposure is frequent, long-lasting or if it can leach into the skin during recoil (high friction to skin when a bullet is fired).

Furthermore, the plastic-tipped bullets could pose environmental concerns to wildlife like the California Condor. For instance, a similar study on lead hunting bullets resulted in a banning of the use of lead bullets in California by the State's Senate when it was found that the lead could harm the California Condor and other wildlife. Assembly Bill 821 bans the use of lead bullets for hunting within California. The bill was sponsored by Assemblyman Pete Nava and has letters of support from a number of conservation and environmental groups.

Any established link to potential harm for humans or wildlife, some environmentalists argue, is unacceptable and would imply support of the use of BPA-containing plastics that are currently being recalled by some plastics manufacturers.

Keep up the great work EPA!

[Beprepared]

Lets not forget they are trying to ban lead fishing weights in the same measure. No laws need to be passed by congress. The EPA clearly rests on the shoulders of the executive branch. They don't need to attack the second amendment, they're protecting the environment. Do we need to worry about concentrated lead levels....sure, a few lead balls an acre....probably not. Show me the scientific evidence. Handle lead all you want, don't eat it, inject it in your bloodstream, rub your eyes or lick your fingers before washing you hands.
Uuuugg![Rant1]