View Full Version : Question about suppressors
trlcavscout
09-10-2010, 11:04
Wanting to get my first can for an AR but I have a couple questions. First is average cost of the can and stamp or whatever it is? Second is life expectancy of newer cans? 3rd is it registered to the paticular weapon or can you use it on multiple rifles, say if you upgraded, changed etc. Best place to get one? My budget is pretty low right now but thinking about a winter project.
$200 tax stamp no matter what can you buy.
A suppressor (that doesn't use wipes) works the exact same way as a car muffler. Unless you are shooting lead .22lr, your suppressor should theoretically last forever. There are no moving parts (on a rifle can anyway), and the bullet shouldn't come into contact with any part of the can. If you have a baffle strike from an unstabilized bullet, or crooked threads, you'll do damage and need to send it in, or possibly buy a new one.
The suppressor is registered to you. You can put it on whatever gun you want, whenever you want. You can't lend it to a friend though. You always have to be present.
You do have to send in a form if you plan to take it across state lines (DOUBLE CHECK THIS).
As far as buying a can goes, there are a few different things to consider.
1) In Stock: Does the dealer actually have the can you want in stock? If they do, then your wait time only depends on the good ole government. If it is NOT in stock, you can get your stamp back, but still have to wait additional time for the company to make the next batch and send it out to everyone.
2) Transfer Fee: If you want a particular brand that your dealer doesn't carry, they can get it for you, but will charge you a transfer fee. Usually it is around $100. I've heard of some places that charge you the fee even if they have a can in stock. I would avoid that place if it exists.
Tips:
-Some places sell cans cheap enough that the difference in price will more than make up for the $100 transfer fee AND the $200 tax stamp.
-There are a lot of different brands and models to choose from. You'll get different opinions based on where you ask, but be careful because there is a lot of drama within the suppressor community/manufacturers. For instance, if you ask around on arf.com, everyone will tell you how they hate AAC. People who defend AAC get banned. If you ask around on Silencertalk.com, you'll hear a lot about how bad Gemtech is. Personally, I like AAC as a company, and the reason they get trashed on arf.com is because they sued Gemtech for ripping off their designs and called out Gemtech on claiming certain levels of decibel reduction, and tests showed them to not meet the claims. Also, arf.com sucks and everyone there sucks too. ;)
What caliber are you looking at suppressing? You can shoot smaller calibers through larger cans, but you won't get the same result. For example, shooting .223 through a .308 can, will probably not be as quiet as shooting .223 through a .223 can.
If you are planning on buying a .22lr can, or a .223 can that you plan on also shooting .22lr through, you want to look at getting a can that you can disassemble for cleaning. Lead is dirty and will eventually clog up a can if you don't clean it out. Also, some .22lr cans are rated for other calibers like .17HMR, .22 mag and wildcat, 5.7mm, and full auto. Some cans are not though, so be careful to get that information based on what you think your future needs will be.
Good luck, and if you need more insight, there are several people here who actually have cans and I'm sure they'll chime in.
gcrookston
09-10-2010, 16:08
I picked YHM for my cans after doing some comparison shooting with AAC and Gem Tech. Price wasn't that much of a consideration at the time, but it was hard to 'hear' were another $400-600 made a difference. I'm especially pleased with my Phantom can and use it every chance I get when shooting 5.56 or 7.62. One of my buddies has one he's put over 10,000 rounds out of, most of it full auto, and it's performance has been outstanding.
I purchased my cans through stocking dealers. The first can in '08 .45 Cobra for my USP tactical. Cost was $450.00, stamp $200.00. The dealer did not charge a "transfer fee". It took the BATF 91 days to process (I hand carried the paperwork to the Local LEO for approval the day I purchased it). The dealer was kind enough to let me demo it at their range any time I wished until the paperwork came in (it was stored in their safe until the stamp arrived).
The 2nd can I purchased at a different dealer and they had to order it from YHM (Phantom .308/.223). Again, I carried the paperwork to the local LEO for signature. The can and 2 adapters arrived within 10 days. The paperwork took 135 days. Cost was $575 for the can, $200 for the tax stamp. No transfer fee.
I've picked up a couple of extra adapters and plan on threading the barrels of a couple of bolt guns I have (.223/.308).
The 5320 is usually received within 21 days (this is required if you are moving and is recommended if you are taking it for play time out of state).
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/gcrookston/DSC00284.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/gcrookston/DSC00202.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/gcrookston/DSC00176.jpg
trlcavscout
09-10-2010, 17:39
Thanks for the info guys. I am really wanting to get this process started ASAP! Where is the best place to buy? I know Jensen in Loveland sells them but I dont know about price and availablility. I will be looking for more of an "economy" starter one, but not so cheap as to be inifective or short lived.
What caliber? If it is a .22lr, I don't think you can beat a Tac65 for an "economy" can.
You can also build your own suppressors on a Form 1, just FYI.
trlcavscout
09-10-2010, 20:55
What caliber? If it is a .22lr, I don't think you can beat a Tac65 for an "economy" can.
You can also build your own suppressors on a Form 1, just FYI.
Any more info on that? Its for a 223 AR. I wouldnt mind a 308 one for future build but for now a 223. To be able to use it on a 22 would be a big plus though.
There are quieter cans, but this is about as cheap as it gets (as far as I know, I'm a little out of date).
http://www.tacticalinc.com/tac65-22lr-suppressorbrexcellent-suppression-easy-clean-p-38.html
http://www.impactguns.com/store/TAC65.html
I don't know ANYTHING about either of those dealers, and I think the local dealers carry them.
Here is a comparison thread:
http://ingunowners.com/forums/class_iii_nfa/54090-tac_65_or_gemtech_outback_2_a.html
Basically, just Google TAC 65 and you get a lot of results.
What I would do, is go to www.silencerresearch.com, pay the $30 for a full access, premium membership and look at the raw data of like 90% of the cans available, then decide how you want to proceed from there. If you're going to be spending at least $400 on the cheapest can (including tax stamp) what is another $30 to find the best choice? Silencerresearch is like the Car and Driver of suppressors. There is a decent amount of free stuff to check out as well.
Seamonkey
09-11-2010, 08:49
What I would do, is go to www.silencerresearch.com (http://www.silencerresearch.com), pay the $30 for a full access, premium membership and look at the raw data of like 90% of the cans available, then decide how you want to proceed from there. If you're going to be spending at least $400 on the cheapest can (including tax stamp) what is another $30 to find the best choice? Silencerresearch is like the Car and Driver of suppressors. There is a decent amount of free stuff to check out as well.
+1 for silencer research. You're going to spend a couple hundred bucks on the item, it's worth the $30 to get unbiased info.
Just to clear up a few things.
The one time fee is $200. The fee is per suppressor. This fee goes to the NFA Branch of the ATF. If you own 5 suppressors, you will have $1000 in tax stamps.
The suppressor is the serialized item, not the weapon that it is attached to. So if you have threaded barrels on all of your rifles, you can move the supressor from gun to gun to gun.
Traveling with a suppressor does *not* require any approval or paperwork. Just dont take them to states where they are not allowed.
There is no formal or set fee for a transfer of a suppressor. Some dealers charge a fee and others dont.
Shooting a smaller caliber bullet through a can will not do any damage and in some cases it will actually be quieter as the volume of gasses you are cooling is less. I often shoot my 243 and 22BR through a 308 can. It is much quieter than shooting my 308 through my 308 can. I also shoot 300 Whisper through a 338 can. Sounds like a pellet gun.
Do not shoot 22LR through a centerfire can. You can, but it is not advised as the gunk from 22LR is nasty.
The price difference in suppressors come mainly from weight and noise reduction. Cry once and get a good can.
Get in touch with Alan at Machineguntours. He has many of them in stock.
colblaster
09-11-2010, 12:13
I would recommend the AAC M4-2000. Yes, it is more expensive, but it is small and light. Should be hyper durable. even on SBRs.
If you ever envision also wanting to suppress a 6.8 or 30 caliber, you may want to get a 762-SD. This will work fine on your 5.56 AR, but will also work on the larger calibers ( including your 30-06 elk rifle ) if you so choose.
I am very happy with performance of my M4-2000...
http://meyerclan.com/img/mrp_m4_2000_1.jpg
MadRabbit
09-11-2010, 13:28
+1 for Alan at machinegun tours, he has a shop now in Lakewood on colfax if you're in that area. Very knowledgable, friendly, and willing to help you along the way on your purchase. His website only lists the stuff he has in stock, check it out www.machineguntours.com (http://www.machineguntours.com)
so where is a place i can get a suppressor without a $100 fee? where are places besides machineguntours in the denver area?
5280 has is a Class III dealer last time I checked. You generally shouldn't have to pay the $100 transfer fee unless you are buying from another dealer, and using your local Class III to do the transfer through. However, I've heard of some places that still charge you that fee when you buy from them. I personally wouldn't buy from them.
DeusExMachina
01-27-2011, 23:05
MGT doesn't charge the fee on cans in stock. If you order from someone like Major Malfunction it's $100 to transfer. Firing Line also does transfers for $60.
i am looking for a yhm though and mgt doesn't have them. i want to find a place that sells yhm 7.62 suppressors that don't have any additional fees added on. thanks for the info thus far
Some places like Major Malfunction have such good prices, that even with the $100 transfer fee you still spend less money.
My fiance wants to know why you're in the market for a Young Hot Male in the first place though. ;)
Some places like Major Malfunction have such good prices, that even with the $100 transfer fee you still spend less money.
My fiance wants to know why you're in the market for a Young Hot Male in the first place though. ;)
tell him im sorry, but i am taken. :(
tell him im sorry, but i am taken. :(
HAHAHAHA. BURN!!!! [ROFL2]
so where is a place i can get a suppressor without a $100 fee? where are places besides machineguntours in the denver area?
There is no set transfer fee. It is up to each dealer to set his price for taking care of your paperwork and storage of your can while the paperwork goes through.
Lots of times if you buy a can direct from a dealer there is no transfer fee and he gets his $$$ in the mark up from wholesale to retail. But some still charge.
Think about like this. You have a expensive FFL that has a lot of visibility with the feds. Someone orders a NFA item and uses you for a transfer. You take care of all that paperwork and store the item for the 3-6 months while the paperwork goes through. $100 is cheap.
The $200 fee to the ATF is *not* optional.
I do not like Yankee Hill cans. Way heavy and not that quiet.
i know how it all works and everything, i just don't want to be paying an extra $100 when it isn't necessary. so if someone out there charges less or none at all, or stocks the yhm, it makes way more sense.
everyone i have talked to both personally and seen through reviews loves the yhm's. say they are just as quiet, or at least close enough its hard to tell, and way cheaper. plus with the qd you can switch between weapons easily. the weight is indeed a downside, but doesn't really bother me. id use it on a benchrest 308 with bipod and an sbr ar15 that is so short and light it wouldn't be a big deal. when you are talking about using a suppressor to ensure your ears don't bleed and aren't using it for tactical operations, who cares really if there is a few decibal difference? it isn't worth an extra 400 bucks for me. if you get all crazy about it being uber quiet you might as well use subsonic rounds.
There is no set transfer fee. It is up to each dealer to set his price for taking care of your paperwork and storage of your can while the paperwork goes through.
Lots of times if you buy a can direct from a dealer there is no transfer fee and he gets his $$$ in the mark up from wholesale to retail. But some still charge.
Think about like this. You have a expensive FFL that has a lot of visibility with the feds. Someone orders a NFA item and uses you for a transfer. You take care of all that paperwork and store the item for the 3-6 months while the paperwork goes through. $100 is cheap.
The $200 fee to the ATF is *not* optional.
I do not like Yankee Hill cans. Way heavy and not that quiet.
If you are going to run the same can on 5.56 and 7.62, which is a great idea for your first can IMHO, get the AAC 762-SD. I'm not sure you would want to hang the extra weight off a "sbr ar15 that is so short and light it wouldn't be a big deal" - I think the shorter and lighter it is would make the extra YHM weight even more noticeable. Also if you are running this on an SBR, check with YHM on what length barrel they warranty - I have been told that it is only 11.5" and nothing shorter (although this could be a full-auto rating, which is what I was worried about - but ask anyway to be sure).
Suppressors are not liquid assets like a gun purchase that you simply don't like. You will lose lots of money to sell a suppressor you don't like and you pretty much have to find an in-state buyer because people will have to pay an extra tax stamp to transfer out of state once it is in your name. So I consider suppressors to be a permanant purchase once the form 4 has my name signed across it. Given this, I would not skimp on quality over a couple hundred $ in price, because it will be a whole lot more expensive to buy a better one later and/or try to sell this one if you don't like it. Not everyone has tons of $ laying around, so I understand price is a factor, but this is something to keep in mind.
on sbr's you don't notice the weight near as much. think about it for a minute. you have way less barrel sticking off the end, farther from your hand. a suppressor weighs only a little more than an extra 5-7 inches of barrel. with, say for example, an 11.5" sbr, a suppressor attached is like shooting an 18" rifle. if you have a 16" or 18" rifle with a suppressor attached, its like shooting a 24-26" rifle. the closer the weight is to your stabilizing hand, the lighter it will appear. thats actually part of the point to the very short suppressors. the less it hangs out away from the hand, the lighter it will seem.
as far as quality, i completely agree, save the money and buy something good. however, as i said, EVERYWHERE i have looked, even m4carbine.net and arfcom, which are both full of the most stuck up gun snobs on the planet, have said the yhm is perfectly acceptable, especially for the price. several even said if they went back they would buy the yhm instead of aac and gemtech because the differences are small enough that saving the extra few hundred would be worth it. now, some do complain about the weight being their deciding factor, and thats fine and understandable, but it really isn't an issue for me. so all we really have here is sound suppression. even the NUMBERS aren't that different in suppression and from what i have heard in person as well as from reports its such a small difference that most don't even notice it. with all that being said, why would i spend an extra few hundred? having the "top of the line" just doesn't fit for what i want to use it for. its unnecessary. i don't want/need a suppressor so i can assassinate my neighbor as quietly as possible, i want/need one so i can shoot without hearing protection and in the case of my 308 make sure the guy shooting to my side won't be permanently deaf. if people want to drop extra money on a slightly quieter or much lighter suppressor have at it, i don't judge at all. if thats what you need to fit the bill in your particular case, i don't blame you. it simply doesn't fit into what i am needing it for. its the same reason i don't buy nightforce, uso or s&b.
If you are going to run the same can on 5.56 and 7.62, which is a great idea for your first can IMHO, get the AAC 762-SD. I'm not sure you would want to hang the extra weight off a "sbr ar15 that is so short and light it wouldn't be a big deal" - I think the shorter and lighter it is would make the extra YHM weight even more noticeable. Also if you are running this on an SBR, check with YHM on what length barrel they warranty - I have been told that it is only 11.5" and nothing shorter (although this could be a full-auto rating, which is what I was worried about - but ask anyway to be sure).
Suppressors are not liquid assets like a gun purchase that you simply don't like. You will lose lots of money to sell a suppressor you don't like and you pretty much have to find an in-state buyer because people will have to pay an extra tax stamp to transfer out of state once it is in your name. So I consider suppressors to be a permanant purchase once the form 4 has my name signed across it. Given this, I would not skimp on quality over a couple hundred $ in price, because it will be a whole lot more expensive to buy a better one later and/or try to sell this one if you don't like it. Not everyone has tons of $ laying around, so I understand price is a factor, but this is something to keep in mind.
Tmckay2... your logic and rational are not welcome here. This is an internet forum!!
Just kidding. It's refreshing to read posts like yours. Thanks for chiming in.
Don't think that you're going to be shooting full power super sonic .308 through a suppressor and not still wearing ear protection though. It's not a .22lr.
Don't think that you're going to be shooting full power super sonic .308 through a suppressor and not still wearing ear protection though. It's not a .22lr.
it can stilll be done, ive done it, though i wouldn't recommend doing it throughout an entire day. its not any louder, in fact less so, than an unsuppressed 223 and you can easily shoot those without hearing protection, though again, i wouldn't do it day in and day out.
anyways, back to the original question i had, anyone else in colorado that sells suppressors that might have a yhm 7.62 in stock?
Have you asked the dealers around if they can order one in for you? I'm pretty sure they can order whatever they want, just like buying any gun that they don't generally stock.
Have you asked the dealers around if they can order one in for you? I'm pretty sure they can order whatever they want, just like buying any gun that they don't generally stock.
yes but if you look at the past posts the issue is i would prefer not pay $100 tranfer fee. if someone around here has one in stock, it makes a lot more sense. ive been looking but no luck yet, which is why i am asking if anyone knows of one
I don't mean ordering one from another dealer, but directly from YHM. I think they can do that, can't they? I guess what I'm getting at, is that the $100 transfer fee isn't required, and dealers mostly charge that when you purchase through them, but not from them. I think it's worth a shot asking if they'll order it direct, allowing you to buy from them and not be charged the transfer fee. Maybe you've already asked though. I'm eager to see how this plays out, because I'd really like to get a suppressor some day soon as well. So keep us updated.
ah i got ya. but no, they usually charge the transfer fee if they need to buy it in general, even from the company. might have to do with deals they get from ones they stock
I don't mean ordering one from another dealer, but directly from YHM. I think they can do that, can't they? I guess what I'm getting at, is that the $100 transfer fee isn't required, and dealers mostly charge that when you purchase through them, but not from them. I think it's worth a shot asking if they'll order it direct, allowing you to buy from them and not be charged the transfer fee. Maybe you've already asked though. I'm eager to see how this plays out, because I'd really like to get a suppressor some day soon as well. So keep us updated.
Jensens in Loveland has YHM in stock, along with AAC, Silencerco, etc. Their prices on most models are MSRP. I would call before driving up there if coming from Denver since they seem to sell them pretty quick, but they stock all of the most popular models (I looked at a YHM 762 there a few months ago).
it can stilll be done, ive done it, though i wouldn't recommend doing it throughout an entire day. its not any louder, in fact less so, than an unsuppressed 223 and you can easily shoot those without hearing protection, though again, i wouldn't do it day in and day out.
anyways, back to the original question i had, anyone else in colorado that sells suppressors that might have a yhm 7.62 in stock?
Isn't Jensens the place that charges you the $100 transfer fee for stuff that you buy FROM them though?
Jensens in Loveland has YHM in stock, along with AAC, Silencerco, etc. Their prices on most models are MSRP. I would call before driving up there if coming from Denver since they seem to sell them pretty quick, but they stock all of the most popular models (I looked at a YHM 762 there a few months ago).
thanks for the info, but i found a guy locally that will buy one from the company and sell it with the mount for $625. now that doesn't include tax of course, but i still think thats pretty fair. i could order from major-malfunction for a bit cheaper since tax isn't included, but by the time you figure shipping and the guy's transfer fee of $30 it wouldn't save a whole ton.
Isn't Jensens the place that charges you the $100 transfer fee for stuff that you buy FROM them though?
No, they don't charge you $100 to transfer something they have in stock or something that they order for you. They will charge you a fee to transfer a NFA item in that you buy from another dealer just like most stores.
$625 including the FH is a pretty good deal. Enjoy your new can (after the fun wait of course)!
Chad4000
02-28-2011, 23:14
Great thread guys...
Not tryng to get to off topic, but could you theoretically use a can on an ar and a 9mm pistol? I'm getting that adapters would be required... I think I might spend the money if I can use it on my two favorite guns..
DeusExMachina
03-01-2011, 00:03
Well, you can shoot .223 through a .308 can. But 9mm (.380) is larger than both. Also, a pistol can (9mm) is not constructed to handle rifle calibers, AFAIK.
I have seen videos of Silencerco shooting .300BLK subsonic (the subsonic ammo has safe amounts of pressure for the can) through .45 and 9mm cans.
Great thread guys...
Not tryng to get to off topic, but could you theoretically use a can on an ar and a 9mm pistol? I'm getting that adapters would be required... I think I might spend the money if I can use it on my two favorite guns..
I would not recommend this. the FPS of the rifle bullets are far greater with a lot more pressure than the pistol calibers.
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