View Full Version : Unreliable pistols
kidicarus13
09-13-2010, 21:31
Please list pistols (that cost more than $250) that you have owned/shot that you would not consider reliable under any circumstance. Here is my list:
1. Para Ordinance .45 Warthog
2. S&W Sigma 9mm (1st Gen.)- least reliable pistol I've ever shot!
3. Walther PPK .380 (none of the three that I've shot were reliable)
These 3 examples were absolutely the worst I have ever experienced as far as reliablity. To my surprise I owned a Hi-Point pistol and carbine that were both 100% reliable.
gnihcraes
09-13-2010, 21:40
Smith Wesson 469 or something like that in 9mm. Just didn't work well at all.
Virginian Dragoon - friends - it just fell apart while shooting. Cracks in the forcing cone? throat of the barrel, we couldn't figure out why ever shot was sending shrapnel all over us.
Otherwise have chosen wisely most of the time.
buffalobo
09-13-2010, 21:44
+1 on the S&W Sigma 9mm.
Zundfolge
09-13-2010, 21:59
Only gun I've ever owned that I didn't trust was a RAP 401 ... frankly I think a new set of springs and a bit of fluff and buff and it coulda been made reliable.
Pistol Packing Preacher
09-14-2010, 07:54
I guess my Hi-point was a fluke. Works well as a boat anchor. Then again, what should I expect for a $99.. Glad yours worked fine!
[Tooth]
OgenRwot
09-14-2010, 08:04
2. S&W Sigma 9mm (1st Gen.)- least reliable pistol I've ever shot!
This was mine as well, only in 40. I hated that thing.
Other than that, I've shot a few 1911s that were not so great and I shot one of my friends M&P 40 that he got used that had some issues. I think it had more to do with not liking certain ammo.
That's why I shoot Glocks, doesn't matter what I feed mine they shoot everything just fine. Over all the years I've been shooting them and all the models and the tens of thousands of rounds that I've shot, I have NEVER had one single issue. Not one.
ronaldrwl
09-14-2010, 08:07
My Walther PPK 380 after breaking in (200 rounds) has zero malfunctions with 2000 rounds fired. I did have to polish some nicks on the barrel where it was hitting. After that no problems.
brokenscout
09-14-2010, 08:26
I have had nothing but problems with S&W semi autos,But love there revolvers.
My Walther PPK is one of my favorites
mikedubs
09-14-2010, 08:29
A friend's Jennings .380...god what a piece of crap.
Thankfully it's less than $250...sorry OP
Baby Glock in .40. And, no, I wasn't limp wristing it. Also a Kimber 3" 1911. It functioned reliably, but broke regularly.
Birddog1911
09-14-2010, 08:48
Guess that I've been pretty lucky. Never owned a junky pistol. I had problems with an STI, but that was shear fluke.
CrufflerSteve
09-14-2010, 09:05
I had a Tanfoglio CZ clone in .45 that just wouldn't feed properly. I sent it back to EAA 3 times, one of which led to a conversation with the president of EAA. It came back unreliable each time. Finally I was comparing it with a 1911 and some 9mm's. It had a 9mm spring! I replaced it and fed RN ammo okay but was very inaccurate.
The worst was a Mitchell Hi Standard. A couple of parts broke and had to be factory replaced. I'm not talking stuff like firing pin. The rear target sights would not stay put until I used locktite. The worst was the mags. Some fed reasonably well - one jam per several mags and others failed almost every shot. When I examined them with calipers I found incredible variance. No QC.
On a lesser note I had a Winchester 94 in 45LC. It was totally sensitive to ammo. Some was accurate some went all over. I also saw a fair number of them jamming at cowboy action shoots. I sold mine and got a Marlin 94 which puts any and all loads where I aim them.
Some guns are crap and some companies have bad QC. One of their guns can be great and the next can be horrible. If a company can get control of this they have quality. I love my Sig's, Rugers and CZ's.
Steve
Ruger P89 ... holy cow did that gun suck. Coulda made a great boat anchor or book end though, heavy bastard it was. Couldn't ever get the sights to stay aligned and just down right uncomfortable to shoot.
Baby Glock in .40. And, no, I wasn't limp wristing it.
How did you manage to break a G27? I've put countless rounds through mine without so much as a hiccup
H.
Only gun I ever had a problem with an old S&W .22lr revolver of my grandpa. Other than that, I've tried to do my research to obtain well functioning firearms.
I had a problem on my long gun with trigger lockup, but it was caused by me not knowing what I was doing.
trlcavscout
09-14-2010, 09:23
Early Sigma (I guess they are better now)
Early XD (HS2000) Will never own another.
Tauras 24/7 Will never own another.
My 1911's all ran fine after alot of $, Highpoints are very reliable just to big and heavy.
How did you manage to break a G27? I've put countless rounds through mine without so much as a hiccup
H.
Didn't break it, it just wouldn't feed reliably. I tried different ammo, new springs, varying my grip strength, you name it. Not a good gun.
hollohas
09-14-2010, 10:08
Didn't break it, it just wouldn't feed reliably. I tried different ammo, new springs, varying my grip strength, you name it. Not a good gun.
My buddy had a G27 with lots of feed problems no matter what ammo he ran through it. Tried news mags, didn't help. He is a pretty good pistol shooter and it wasn't operator error. He sent it back to Glock and after a few weeks they sent it back to him. Now it functions flawlessly. Don't know what they did to fix it but they did it for free.
Pistol Packing Preacher
09-14-2010, 10:15
Highpoints are very reliable just to big and heavy.
I must of acquired a lemon...
[Coffee]
OneGuy67
09-14-2010, 10:25
My first duty gun I ever had was a Smith & Wesson 659 and what a piece of crap it was! I'm a lefty and I couldn't make the adjustable rear sight move far enough for me to be able to sight and hit center mass of the target. I finally realized the reason was due to the front sight being soldiered off-center! You couldn't move the front sight at all!
I traded it in for a H&K USP when they first came out. Only 1 of 2 guns I have ever traded or gotten rid of.
ghettodub
09-14-2010, 10:42
throwing in my +1 for a S&W Sigma as well, 9 or 40
Didn't break it, it just wouldn't feed reliably. I tried different ammo, new springs, varying my grip strength, you name it. Not a good gun.
Mine is a Gen2 that I've had for 8+ years and never a FTF
H.
68Charger
09-14-2010, 12:35
I guess my Hi-point was a fluke. Works well as a boat anchor. Then again, what should I expect for a $99.. Glad yours worked fine!
[Tooth]
Their best feature is their warranty.. send it back...
Granted, you'll spend close to 20% of it's value to send it, but they'll fix it.
they've been known to replace pistols that were kaboom'd by reloads
Ruger P89 ... holy cow did that gun suck. Coulda made a great boat anchor or book end though, heavy bastard it was. Couldn't ever get the sights to stay aligned and just down right uncomfortable to shoot.
I loved my p89 wish I never sold it. It was heavy gun but never had 1 problem. Thing was a tank!!![Tooth]
I have a Llama .22 auto that is the second most useless pistol I've ever owned. It has sentimental value as the first pistol I ever bought, other than that, it might be good as a paper weight. In addition to having the accuracy of a drunken blind Parkinson's patient with a slingshot (off of a sandbagged rest), it has exhibited virtually every failure mode known to man, including but not limited to magazine follower jams, stovepiping, failure to feed, failure to extract, and occasionally multiple discharges (6 rounds out of a 7 round mag, live stovepipe on the last round, needless to say, that was the very last time I attempted to shoot it!). Yet for some reason, I have not taken the cutting torch to it....I am an idiot!
nogaroheli
09-14-2010, 16:06
Ruger P89 ... holy cow did that gun suck. Coulda made a great boat anchor or book end though, heavy bastard it was. Couldn't ever get the sights to stay aligned and just down right uncomfortable to shoot.
Man, I loved my P89. For 4 or 5 years that was the only pistol I had and I put a TON of rounds through it without a single issue, ever. I kinda wish I'd kept it cause it was flawless (other than being heavy!).
Daniel_187
09-14-2010, 16:20
Taurus wheel guns. Had 2 of them take a dump on me. Never had a problem with them but most guns made in Italy, they have shitty 1 or 2 year warrentys and the parts can be very hard to find and very $$$$
gcrookston
09-14-2010, 20:43
Walther P22 --- I bought 2 when they first came out... Both went back to the factory for FTF, FTE, safety failure. One made 2 trips to the factory and got traded at a gun show without ever knowing if it was repaired. The other made 3 trips to the factory and was dumped at a gun show as well.
Sig Mosquito-- Also bought one of these when they first came out... Couldn't get through a mag without it jamming. Sig repurchased it after they determined it was defective and gave me a big discount on a 556 (also then just introduced).
I must have some freaks of nature my one year old Sigma SW40VE has run flawlessly for about 2000 rds. Ditto for my 3rd gen Glock 27 3000 rds never had any problems whatsoever. I had one ftf with my 3rd gen 10mm Glock 29 when I first put in a new Lone Wolf 40S&W barrel but since the first mag it has never failed with 10mm or 40S&W after about 1500 rds of each even using only the 10mm springs and magazines. I have an old S&W 59, 9mm that has always ran like a charm problem free. I still fire a 1909, 6" Colt 38sp that runs great. I even have a Sterling 302 22lr pocket auto that never fails, and everything I read said it is suppose to be a jam-o-matic. Of the other 8 handguns I have I do not have any issues to report. I don't want to bore you listing them all. Just really wanted to defend the G27, Sigma. Almost forgot my Taurus 85 is always trouble free as well. Maybe I'm just lucky. [AR15]
I must have some freaks of nature my one year old Sigma SW40VE has run flawlessly for about 2000 rds. Ditto for my 3rd gen Glock 27 3000 rds never had any problems whatsoever. I had one ftf with my 3rd gen 10mm Glock 29 when I first put in a new Lone Wolf 40S&W barrel but since the first mag it has never failed with 10mm or 40S&W after about 1500 rds of each even using only the 10mm springs and magazines. I have an old S&W 59, 9mm that has always ran like a charm problem free. I still fire a 1909, 6" Colt 38sp that runs great. I even have a Sterling 302 22lr pocket auto that never fails, and everything I read said it is suppose to be a jam-o-matic. Of the other 8 handguns I have I do not have any issues to report. I don't want to bore you listing them all. Just really wanted to defend the G27, Sigma. Almost forgot my Taurus 85 is always trouble free as well. Maybe I'm just lucky. [AR15]
The guys are talking about 1st gen Sigmas.... I had two SW9VEs those are good guns but the trigger is the PITA.
I had two SW9VEs those are good guns but the trigger is the PITA.
Sounds like you're holding the gun incorrectly. Try holding it in your hands.
I have a Llama .22 auto that is the second most useless pistol I've ever owned. It has sentimental value as the first pistol I ever bought, other than that, it might be good as a paper weight. In addition to having the accuracy of a drunken blind Parkinson's patient with a slingshot (off of a sandbagged rest), it has exhibited virtually every failure mode known to man, including but not limited to magazine follower jams, stovepiping, failure to feed, failure to extract, and occasionally multiple discharges (6 rounds out of a 7 round mag, live stovepipe on the last round, needless to say, that was the very last time I attempted to shoot it!). Yet for some reason, I have not taken the cutting torch to it....I am an idiot!
Sounds like a winner.... Don't torch it! Make some artwork or something out of it. Take out the internals and run over the frame/slide with a steam roller and frame it! lol.
Sounds like a winner.... Don't torch it! Make some artwork or something out of it. Take out the internals and run over the frame/slide with a steam roller and frame it! lol.
I'm pretty sure if I immersed it in Holy Water that it would explode like a chunk of sodium....[LOL]
68Charger
09-15-2010, 13:58
I'm pretty sure if I immersed it in Holy Water that it would explode like a chunk of sodium....[LOL]
[ROFL2] Great line!
SA Friday
09-15-2010, 16:58
Here's my list of guns to never own (some are again):
Any S&W semi-auto pistol (exception to the rule is the M&P)
Any Taurus (no exceptions)
Any Jennings/Bryco/Jiminez, Bersa, or Hi-Point
Olympia, Double-star, or any AR company that makes receivers that look like they skipped the final polishing/deburring step
Para-Ordinance (you spend that much for a production gun, the bitch otta at least run out of the box)
older model Savages. They just fall apart.
older model Mossberg pump shotguns; they skimp on the thickness of the pump arms and they snap with manly use.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Ya, I'm a picky bastard.[Tooth]
My used Walther PPK 380 would always jamb up. Pawn shop sent it in to get fixed and was a little better. Gave it back to them for a Taurus. [Rant1]
bobbyfairbanks
09-15-2010, 21:30
Kimber TLE custom 2
Sent it back to kimber 2 times and still failed to feed. Never will buy kimber agian because of that.
llostwolf
09-15-2010, 22:17
p89 ruger[Rant1]
nontactical
09-17-2010, 00:07
My used Walther PPK 380 would always jamb up. Pawn shop sent it in to get fixed and was a little better. Gave it back to them for a Taurus. [Rant1]
It takes an act of god, an amazing pistolsmith and more than a little dumb luck to get a ppk to run. SUPER cool little pistols with world class machining and pinach that only James Bond could offer, but jam like Smuckers.
ronaldrwl
09-17-2010, 09:05
It takes an act of god, an amazing pistolsmith and more than a little dumb luck to get a ppk to run. SUPER cool little pistols with world class machining and pinach that only James Bond could offer, but jam like Smuckers.
Alright, I'm getting pissed off :) Quit talking about my Walther! I shoot mine everytime I go out. No problems. It's my daily carry weapon.
relichunter
09-30-2010, 15:16
Walther P22 VERY picky with ammo. Loved the way it looked and felt.
CZ70 I've owned 3. They were surplus and inexpensive but they all had difficulty feeding ammo.
Claemore
09-30-2010, 22:50
Here's my three that I will never own again:
Kimber anything
Para-Ordnance anything
Taurus anything.
I also had an Astra A100 that was good for the first 100 rds, then it was an "every-now-and-then" shooter. But that was a cheap pistol, I should have expected it to be crap.
agent-smith
10-01-2010, 11:07
I've never really had a problem with any pistols (including Kimbers).
Actually, my Kimber 1911's required me to tune the extractors.
Total time? About 45 seconds.
hollohas
10-01-2010, 11:12
I've never really had a problem with any pistols (including Kimbers).
Actually, my Kimber 1911's required me to tune the extractors.
Total time? About 45 seconds.
No problems with my Kimber Ultra Carry. No modifications, well over a thousand rounds through it without a single malfunction. Trust it and carry it everyday.
BPTactical
10-01-2010, 18:09
No problems with my Kimber Ultra Carry. No modifications, well over a thousand rounds through it without a single malfunction. Trust it and carry it everyday.
Hence my comments on Kimbers and Paras- You get a decent one and they are good pistols, you get a lemon and you will cuss at it until you sell it....
Problem is both put out too many lemons.
As far as crappy handguns- During the 60's and 70's alot of very crappy pistols came out of Spain and Germany. Pot metal frames, crappy heat treating etc.
I had a gent bring one in to look at and he wanted to know what it was worth. I asked him if he had a box of ammo for it. He said yes and I told him by loading it he would double the value.
Lorcin-Cobra-Jennings-Bryco are right up there. Never been impressed with AMT either.
Ditto on the Warthog. Mine could be fired with the Thumb Safety on right out of the box. Para didn't even return my calls or email to get it fixed. Traded it back in for the S&W Pro Series 1911.
lead_magnet
10-16-2010, 23:42
I'm going to get hung for this but oh well..
Springfield Armory 1911 "loaded" full-size model in stainless. Wouldn't feed ANYTHING, I never even had one mag go into this gun without at least one round hitting the ramp and going nowhere. Had another one bought new around (parked) the same time (2002-2003 ish) that fed, errmm...okay. Won't buy another, though my dad's 20 year old springfield runs like a champ...not sure what gives.
And yes, tried different all different types of amno and nothing worked.
Colorado Osprey
10-17-2010, 05:32
I'm going to get hung for this but oh well..
Springfield Armory 1911 "loaded" full-size model in stainless. Wouldn't feed ANYTHING, I never even had one mag go into this gun without at least one round hitting the ramp and going nowhere. Had another one bought new around (parked) the same time (2002-2003 ish) that fed, errmm...okay. Won't buy another, though my dad's 20 year old springfield runs like a champ...not sure what gives.
And yes, tried different all different types of ammo and nothing worked.
It probably wasn't the ammo. It is usally the mags.... :)
I too had a Springfield that wasn't 100% reliable. This was a mid 1990's gun. Mags fixed the issue for the most part but I would get a failure to feed after 100-200 rounds. BTW this gun was tuned by the A-Zone and would feed empty brass from a mag; even slowly moving the slide by hand. I've never seen a 1911 be able to do that before this one and it still had that 100-200 round feed issue. Switched to Wilson mags and never had the problem again.
I have only ever owned one gun which I regretted buying. That gun was a Charles Daly 1911 clone. [Puke]
I was suprised to read so many comments about how unreliable paras are. I own 2 p12s and 2 p 14s. Shot them a lot and never had any problems. My p12 is my carry gun and that's the one that has been shot the most.
Great gun! Fun to shoot and (at least for me) very reliable.
I was suprised to read so many comments about how unreliable paras are. I own 2 p12s and 2 p 14s. Shot them a lot and never had any problems. My p12 is my carry gun and that's the one that has been shot the most.
Great gun! Fun to shoot and (at least for me) very reliable.
its because really there isn't a particularly unreliable gun manufacturer out there, at least not out of the pretty major ones, but everyone is going to have a problem with some gun at some point. its just the nature of the beast. could be the ammo, could be the mags, could be the shooter, and if all of those aren't it its probably the gun itself.
S&W Sigma series and semis are crap. They just need to stick to the wheel guns because thats what they are good at.
Walther p99 .40 (and smith for importing it with horrable customer service)
20 rounds down the tube and the frame rails started peening, sent it to smith and they said it was not covered under waranty. Called and finally got a guy that was about to retire and sent it to him and he said they should have replaced it the first time.
Walther p22. Have had 3 different and they all sucked. Bad feeding, poor ejectors and just crappy all around. ( I didn't buy 3, they where given and promptly sold).
Bersa.......(better customer service though)
funkfool
11-10-2010, 22:53
One word.
Lorcin.
Ok - 11/15 more:
The most god-awful, pot-metal, piece-o-disaster I ever put a hand on...
(I can NOT believe no one has mentioned Lorcin yet...)
CrufflerSteve
11-11-2010, 13:29
NAA Guardian 32. I wanted another pocket pistol beside my P3AT and it looked solid and had good reviews.
Total POS! It went to the range once and had over 90% FTF on 3 brands of FMJ's. Most were stovepipes but about a third were jamming on the ramp. About all I can say good about it was that if you managed to get a round in the chamber it fired.
I managed 50 rounds and my finger was getting sore the trigger pull was unbelievable. I have a trigger gauge that goes to 25 pounds and I needed it. The pull went between 19 and 15 pounds!
I inspected it and saw no burrs or anything obviously wrong. I fired it a couple of 100 times with snap caps and the trigger smoothed out to 14 to 15 pounds.
It's been sent back for repairs. I deeply regret this purchase.
(BTW guys, some of the pistols you're mentioning have got to be under the $ amount in the starting post.)
Steve
My walther p22 would litteraly stove pipe every other round. No matter what brand I put through it.
My springfield A1 sucked almost as bad as that, except it wouldnt chamber ANYTHING I fed it. Every time I got one chambered the next one wouldn't. And that's after 300 rnds The only problem I ever had with a glock was a brand new 23 that stove piped ONCE and that's it.
vectorsc
11-16-2010, 23:28
Get some popcorn. I wouldn't trust my life to a 1911.
It's a not a question of does it run, but when will it break.
Like any mechanical tool?
Get some popcorn. I wouldn't trust my life to a 1911.
It's a not a question of does it run, but when will it break.
I dunno....I have a Norinco 1911 that has about 23,000 rounds down the pipe, with exactly 4 failures, including 3 dud primers in my reloads, and one commercial round that fired on restrike. Keep in mind this pistol cost me exactly $243 out the door in 1989. It also will hold sub 3 inch groups off a sandbag rest with almost anything that will fit in the chamber. The only mods I have made are a full length guide rod, an extended slide release, a set pf Pachmayr wraparound grips, and flourescent paint on the sights.
gnihcraes
11-17-2010, 21:46
Sometimes you have to wonder about things. Like Bimmer says about the P22, mine has had a few failures to feed properly, but this last weekend, it ate several hundred rounds, slow and fast without a glitch. Go figure? I think a lot has to do with ammo at times, but maybe there are slight differences in machining that make one work and another not? Mine really likes the federal bulk pack it seems.
I think it's a lot like cars, one person might despise a brand because of a bad experience mechanically etc. Mechanical things to break and wear, some have design flaws, but you'd think if the design flaw would be obvious and corrected with so many of the same items sold. (cars, guns, etc)
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