Why is everyone anti-PayPal/eBay?

[OgenRwot]

If I'm not mistaken PayPal just chooses not to allow firearms transactions via their service, which I totally understand in this lawsuit happy environment that we live in these days. They don't want to be held liable for anything. Even the gun shop that the kid from VT purchase his guns from got sued in civil court. They don't donate to any antis like Brady or anything, they just don't want to get sued. Sure they are owned by eBay but they aren't big donors either. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I came across this as well, they explain why they continue to use PayPal even though they are a gun organization:
New Jersey Coalition for Self Defense (http://www.njcsd.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1052:-10-year-record-would-vouch-for-expanded-gun-law-nc&catid=45:faqs&Itemid=41)

[Hoosier]

If I'm not mistaken PayPal just chooses not to allow firearms transactions via their service, which I totally understand in this lawsuit happy environment that we live in these days. They don't want to be held liable for anything. Even the gun shop that the kid from VT purchase his guns from got sued in civil court. They don't donate to any antis like Brady or anything, they just don't want to get sued. Sure they are owned by eBay but they aren't big donors either. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I came across this as well, they explain why they continue to use PayPal even though they are a gun organization:
New Jersey Coalition for Self Defense (http://www.njcsd.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1052:-10-year-record-would-vouch-for-expanded-gun-law-nc&catid=45:faqs&Itemid=41)

I still use Paypal to get paid for some of the work I do. It's OK, I suppose. I'm really waiting for some better competitors to come along.

H.

[Bailey Guns]

We use PayPal for online payments on our gun-training website. They aren't my favorite because of their choice to not accept payments for firearms and some firearm related items (ie: standard capacity magazines). But they are easy to use and reliable.

I started using GunPal (now GPal) earlier this year. But they ran into some of the same problems with processing cards online as other firearms vendors. Banks stopped processing their transactions. That left a lot of people unable to get their money from GPal or unable to get their money in a timely manner. GPal leadership then failed to notifiy their customers in a timely manner of the problem and it's turned into a total goatf**k for them. I think it's 50-50 whether they'll survive as a viable option to PayPal. Lots of former customers are really pissed at them.

[Byte Stryke]

Personal choice...

and as far as the article paypal limiting their liability by not accepting legal payments for firearms sales within compliance of BATFE rules and regs. Because "you might kill someone with it" is like me saying I wont sell you gas because you might drink and drive.

its bullshit, its a political statement, it is used as a defacto tool of oppression and I don't care what some ass-clown in New Jersey says to support it.
For every Article you can come up with to support it I can find one against it (http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-chicago/paypal-suspends-soldiers-angels-charity-over-gun-raffle).

Yeah, lets go after disabled veterans because "because one of its projects offered a handgun as a prize in a fund-raising raffle."



Right or wrong, I am taking my stand and not moving.

[68Charger]

Their firearms policy aside, since ebay acquired them, and they started playing games with requiring all ebay transactions to use paypal, they really rubbed me the wrong way at that point

they want a monopoly, and will do whatever they can to try to establish one.

[Troublco]

Being a private company, they can choose to not allow transactions involving firearms or firearm parts if they choose. Same with their requiring the use of PayPal.

Being a private individual who's had issues with PayPal in the past, I won't deal with PayPal again for anything and now that eBay requires the use of PayPal I won't touch them either. When I used to use eBay (and still use Gunbroker) I preferred the use of postal money orders. If they want to control the whole thing and how you exchange money, fine, but count me out.

If eBay and PayPal went under tomorrow, as far as I'm concerned it wouldn't be soon enough. If others like using their services, that's certainly up to them. But I won't.

[Hoosier]

Speaking of banking, I was able to put a check into my account yesterday by snapping pictures of it with my iPhone. That's pretty cool. They cap the check size to like $3k though.

H.

[Byte Stryke]

Here ya go... keep using Ebay and Paypal.

They are "rounding up" on you
If I Were Ebay/Paypal, legal firearms, parts and Accessories transactions would be the least of my worries.

http://news.cnet.com/eBay-sellers-file-billing-suit/2100-1030_3-5258259.html

Ittook me some time to find this one, I remember seeing it on AFN
http://apcmag.com//accc_swoops_on_paypal_plot_as_ebay_plots_global_ro llout.htm


as far as I am concerned they don't need to worry about the criminals, They ARE the criminals and their anti-gun policy is just more self-serving bullshit

[jake]

I think the last time I actually used Ebay was to buy two hi-cap Glock magazines, must have been in 2004.

[Byte Stryke]

I think the last time I actually used Ebay was to buy two hi-cap Glock magazines, must have been in 2004.


I have contacted Ebay and they are currently seizing all of your accounts, funds and property, real or imagined.

[ROFL1]

[ChunkyMonkey]

I wish there is an alternative to Paypal. My online stuffs pay my mortgage and paypal is the only medium we use at this point.

[Hoosier]

I wish there is an alternative to Paypal. My online stuffs pay my mortgage and paypal is the only medium we use at this point.

If you're doing serious online payment processing, there are many options available. Chase Paymentech, Authorize.net, PayLeap, Google Checkout... just google "credit card processing"

H.

[Byte Stryke]

If you're doing serious online payment processing, there are many options available. Chase Paymentech, Authorize.net, PayLeap, Google Checkout... just google "credit card processing"

H.


if he is an "fee-Bay" Seller he has no options.
you pay to sell, you pay to get money, you pay to spend money, you just pay.
its the penny system
if you Buy Something for 9.95 you are charged $10.00 flat
The retailer is them charged a percentage on the same $10, even though he only receives the 9.95
They must then use the "Ebay Approved Shipping"
you have to BUY Boxes from Ebay that would otherwise be free from USPS
and purchase your shipping from Ebay.
with all of the Ebay add-ons

Now... if a Buyer decides to file a complaint, or you "upset the force" Paypal will suspend your account.
Translation: Your shit gets locked and Seized. You cannot access your money
To contest the lock-down you have to pay another fee.
If you are correct and the lockdown was wrong... you don't get your fee back.

"Fee-bay" will dime and dollar you to death

[ChunkyMonkey]

I wish I can. 90% of my clients are facebookers who use offerpal or paypal as payment method. My authorize.net account process no more than few hundreds per month.

Oh hell, I have had someone who was buying a house and wanted to put earnest money in paypal escrow... nuts!

[Byte Stryke]

I wish I can. 90% of my clients are facebookers who use offerpal or paypal as payment method. My authorize.net account process no more than few hundreds per month.

Oh hell, I have had someone who was buying a house and wanted to put earnest money in paypal escrow... nuts!


yeah I can see losing 4% of that...


NOT!

[OgenRwot]

Ittook me some time to find this one, I remember seeing it on AFN
http://apcmag.com//accc_swoops_on_paypal_plot_as_ebay_plots_global_ro llout.htm


as far as I am concerned they don't need to worry about the criminals, They ARE the criminals and their anti-gun policy is just more self-serving bullshit

I don't see a problem with a company forcing you to use one kind of payment or another. They are a private company and they can do as they please. Are you going to go after companies that don't accept AMEX or MasterCard? You are arguing for a restriction free market and yet you link us to a story that has some governmental regulatory agency getting involved with a private company's decision. I'm not sitting here in defense, per se, of PayPal/eBay but your claim that they are "anti-gun" is unfounded. Can you imagine how much time, money and human resources it takes to monitor every single eBay/PayPal transaction to make sure that each specific firearms transfer is not going over state lines and to make sure that each item isn't being sold to a felon etc? If you want to get pissed at somebody for their firearms policy write a letter to the BATFE and Obama and tell them to de-regulate. I'm sure their rules and regulations are what drove PayPal to adopt these policies in the first place.

[Byte Stryke]

I don't see a problem with a company forcing you to use one kind of payment or another. They are a private company and they can do as they please. Are you going to go after companies that don't accept AMEX or MasterCard? You are arguing for a restriction free market and yet you link us to a story that has some governmental regulatory agency getting involved with a private company's decision. I'm not sitting here in defense, per se, of PayPal/eBay but your claim that they are "anti-gun" is unfounded. Can you imagine how much time, money and human resources it takes to monitor every single eBay/PayPal transaction to make sure that each specific firearms transfer is not going over state lines and to make sure that each item isn't being sold to a felon etc? If you want to get pissed at somebody for their firearms policy write a letter to the BATFE and Obama and tell them to de-regulate. I'm sure their rules and regulations are what drove PayPal to adopt these policies in the first place.


No I Linked that to highlight their restrictive and Monopolistic practices.
you pay to sell it and then you Pay AGAIN to get your money. you have no choice.

and as far as your "Civil protection" Argument, That would be like someone suing this site because a gun was sold here.
its not the Sites responsibility to ensure the laws are being followed. I Dont see a badge anywhere here, none of their business enforcing laws or dictating them.

I am a grown fucking adult. If I break a law its not your fault, or the websites fault, or the gun Manufacturers fault or my Moms Fault or anyone's fault for that matter.
Mine. Stop trying to regulate who what where when and how I do anything.
We don't need additional regulation, we need the regulations we have enforced. Corporate bailouts and mergers making companies "too big to fail".
How would you feel if you went to "ABC Burgers" and bought an "abc Meal" for $4.96. you hand me your card and I ring it at $5.00. I then inform you that all credit card and debit card transactions are processed by our "ABC Billing system" which adds %4 processing fee and a $2.00 transaction fee. You then decide to pay with Cash. I tell you Sorry, we only accept payments through our ABC Billing systems.
How soon would you return for your $4.96 Hamburger that costs you $7.20?

and there are a few dozen countries putting the quash on Feebay for Monopolistic practices to include anti-trust and fraud.

So back to your original Question.
I Don't want Feebay for Paypal, I Dont want to pay for selling something and then be forced into using YOUR Shipping company at YOUR Exaggerated rates buying Your Boxes and then PAY again to get my Money from YOUR Payment system.
and I'm sure as fuck not paying someone to "round up" on my bill as a buyer either.

I dont like that they feel they are a government are are authorized to seize peoples money for selling raffle-tickets or a sling.
if they dont have the "manpower" to monitor all of these tansactions as you say, how are the nabbing people for selling a BUIS?
the whole damned thing stinks and I want no part of it.

You got stock or something?
You sure are arguing hard for someone with no vested interest.
just wondering

[Irving]

I don't understand how Craigslist won't let you list an ad for a legal gun, but at the same time they have no problem having 1000's of ads for illegal prostitution. Talk about a crappy political statement.

[Troublco]

Speaking of AMEX, a lot of smaller retail establishments that don't offer it are that way because AMEX REQUIRES a certain number of transactions, and $, to let them "keep" accepting AMEX. So if you're not a larger retail establishment, they'll drop you just because. So before you go blaming the establishments, check up on the why's.

I too am a bit curious about your somewhat spirited defense of eBay/PayPal. If you like 'em, fine. I doubt you'll find too many here that do.

[OneGuy67]

eBay is in California (San Francisco, I belived) and several years ago, they adopted the policy of following California law.

It is too bad too, as I used to buy a TON of gun parts on eBay for M1 Garands that were legal to buy and sell anywhere in the U.S. Now, people put on their auctions that the items are for airsoft, but you have to read between the lines to see that they are not.

Oh well. There is always Gunbroker!

[ChunkyMonkey]

Bah, forget ebay! Facebook is the new way to make some $$ on the side for those of you who work at home!

[Troublco]

There is always Gunbroker!

Thank goodness for Gunbroker! [Beer]

[OgenRwot]

and as far as your "Civil protection" Argument, That would be like someone suing this site because a gun was sold here.
its not the Sites responsibility to ensure the laws are being followed. I Dont see a badge anywhere here, none of their business enforcing laws or dictating them.

I am a grown fucking adult. If I break a law its not your fault, or the websites fault, or the gun Manufacturers fault or my Moms Fault or anyone's fault for that matter.

I'm sure you wouldn't sue and nobody is saying that you would. But for every one "grown f****** adult" there are 1,000 people looking to get rich quick. So this argument doesn't hold up.



Stop trying to regulate who what where when and how I do anything.
We don't need additional regulation, we need the regulations we have enforced. Corporate bailouts and mergers making companies "too big to fail".
How would you feel if you went to "ABC Burgers" and bought an "abc Meal" for $4.96. you hand me your card and I ring it at $5.00. I then inform you that all credit card and debit card transactions are processed by our "ABC Billing system" which adds %4 processing fee and a $2.00 transaction fee. You then decide to pay with Cash. I tell you Sorry, we only accept payments through our ABC Billing systems.

They can "regulate" whatever and whomever they want within their transactions and website, they are a private company. If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere.



So back to your original Question.
I Don't want Feebay for Paypal, I Dont want to pay for selling something and then be forced into using YOUR Shipping company at YOUR Exaggerated rates buying Your Boxes and then PAY again to get my Money from YOUR Payment system.
and I'm sure as fuck not paying someone to "round up" on my bill as a buyer either.

Again, take your business elsewhere.




I dont like that they feel they are a government are are authorized to seize peoples money for selling raffle-tickets or a sling.

This is your first valid point as to why PayPal is bad. I need to go back and read the article on it a little closer to see exactly what happened...




You got stock or something?
You sure are arguing hard for someone with no vested interest.
just wondering


I too am a bit curious about your somewhat spirited defense of eBay/PayPal. If you like 'em, fine. I doubt you'll find too many here that do.

No I don't have any stock in either company or the parent company or whatever. And even if I did I wouldn't advocate using PayPal on a small forum to increase my dividends.

I find it very hypocritical that users on a conservative gun board that I have seen advocate for free markets and personal responsibility and rah rah private business can go ballistic on a private entity that isn't actually "anti-gun" in the sense that they give zero dollars to anti-gun lobby groups. They are a company that chooses not to allow something and people here don't like that so they freak out. It's a scenario of people wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

I started this thread because I am pretty sick of seeing users piss in every single for sale ad or industry partner thread that says "PayPal" in it. If you don't like it fine, don't use PayPal and don't buy from that person but don't pollute a member's for sale ad. Not to mention it's against the TOS.

I have a spirited defense because the argument against PayPal is unfounded. It doesn't hold up to our own beliefs. Everyone just says "F*** PayPal because they don't do what I want them to" and yet our (mostly) free market system, that we claim to love, is what let's them do it. Again, they aren't giving money to Brady or any other gun grabbing organization, so therefore they aren't "anti-gun". I just don't like people spreading false truths. Shit, the one of the people that founded eBay is a STRONG CONSERVATIVE that opposes any new gun control and is running for Governor of California right now.

These kind of arguments that aren't founded in truth make us look stupid as conservatives. It's like when liberals compare conservatives to Hitler when in fact Fascism was about as "progressive" as it gets. It makes them look stupid. The whole argument against PayPal is because they choose to protect themselves against frivolous lawsuits. I don't see how that makes them anti-gun. Ever notice how most gun shops have signs that say "No loaded weapons"? Seems a little odd doesn't it? It's the same thing.

[Irving]

I think it is not irrational to assume that a company whose entire business is to sell everything it can, is anti-something, when they decide not to sell that "something" that is totally legal. Byte Stryke certainly is on the extremist side of things, but in general I don't think it is going too far, or acting too dumb, to assume that certain companies are anti-gun because of certain practices.

[runoma]

Hey ... it's real simple. If you are not for us ... you are against us.
Ask yourself this: are moderate Moslems supporting islamo-fascist jihadist terrorism, by not speaking out against it?
Or, are they excused because they do not give money directly to the terrorists?

[Irving]

Wow, haha.

[jake]

It certainly does seem to be one of those days.

[ronaldrwl]

The moon is full tonight [AR15]

[ChunkyMonkey]

Wow..how.. what? we are there again?

[Irving]

Hey ... it's real simple. If you are not for us ... you are against us.


You tell 'em Ricky!
http://mywnde.com/files/2010/07/ricky_bobby_closeup.jpg

[runoma]

I think it is not irrational to assume that a company whose entire business is to sell everything it can, is anti-something, when they decide not to sell that "something" that is totally legal. Byte Stryke certainly is on the extremist side of things, but in general I don't think it is going too far, or acting too dumb, to assume that certain companies are anti-gun because of certain practices.

Byte Stryke is an extremist?!?
By the way, "Talladega Nights" is a classic, almost as good as "Blades of Glory".
Seriously though, this is a firearm website, right?
Are we actually debating whether ebay/paypal is really anti-gun?
What is this, the "Fairness Doctrine" in action?

[Irving]

I'm only referring to Byte Stryke as an extremist in the context of this discussion.

[Byte Stryke]

So I am an extremist for not wavering on my opinion. or because Ogen asked a question and didn't like my Answer?

Ohh BTW NBC Says Obama is doing great so you all must be wrong.
Its Called the Ogen Argument!

[ROFL1]

[rondog]

I've bought a lot of things off eBay and never used PayPal, always pay with USPS Money Orders. How can eBay or PayPal dictate how a payment transaction is handled between two people? Are they gonna come hunt me down now?
[Sofa]

[Byte Stryke]

I started this thread because I am pretty sick of seeing users piss in every single for sale ad or industry partner thread that says "PayPal" in it. If you don't like it fine, don't use PayPal and don't buy from that person but don't pollute a member's for sale ad. Not to mention it's against the TOS.

well Two things there Ogen,
Because I know you are talking about THIS (http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28178) Thread, you might want to Check youself.

http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13496

let others know where you've actually seen ammo for sale or where some hot deals are (via the net is ok).

because of the nature of this particular forum, things constantly change, therefore only the last 10 days will be current (we could change this as the needs of this thread grow)

It was suggeted, and a good idea, to please put the town in the thread title... (do you know how many walmarts there are in CO?) ;)

NO COMMERCIAL POSTS

So if I make a statement of payment preferences on a post that wasnt supposed to be there anyway, have I really violated the TOS?

and I have had discussions before, Me letting a retailer know that I Would gladly do business with them if the dropped paypal in a respectful manner is not "pissing" on it.


If you ask a question you need to prepare yourself for the answer you may not like.

I Don't like Paypal or ebay due to their Anti-Gun Sales and Payment restrictions, past actions and general monopolistic practices.


and FYI... I Have taken my business elsewhere, I placed a local order today, Thanks Mike! :D

Ogen, Have a great day

[Byte Stryke]

I've bought a lot of things off eBay and never used PayPal, always pay with USPS Money Orders. How can eBay or PayPal dictate how a payment transaction is handled between two people? Are they gonna come hunt me down now?
[Sofa]

it really does matter what you bought and when.
There have been cases where the Buyers account is flagged and cancelled and the sellers account and funds are seized for violating their TOS.
you dont sell on feebay without paying the fee

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html

Payment methods not allowed on eBay:
For most categories, sellers can't ask buyers to:
Send cash through the mail
Send cash or money orders through instant, point-to-point cash transfer services (that are not banks) such as Western Union or MoneyGram
Mail checks or money orders (except for items in categories specifically permitted below)
Pay through bank-to-bank transfers (except for items in categories specifically permitted below)
Pay by "topping off" a seller's prepaid credit or debit card
Pay using online or other payment methods not specifically permitted in this policyPayment method exceptions
These payment methods may be used only in the listing categories described below:
Bank-to-bank transfers (also known as bank wire transfers and bank cash transfers)
Checks
Money orders
Online payment services: Allpay.net, cash2india, CertaPay, Checkfree.com, hyperwallet.com, Nochex.com, Ozpay.biz, XOOMListing categories:
Motors > Boats
Motors > Cars & Trucks
Motors > Collector Cars
Motors > Motorcycles
Motors > Powersports
Motors > Other Vehicles & Trailers
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Automotive Tools > Shop Equipment > Air Compressors
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Automotive Tools > Shop Equipment > Brake Lathes
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Automotive Tools > Shop Equipment > Frame Machines
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Automotive Tools > Shop Equipment > Lifts / Hoists / Jacks
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Automotive Tools > Shop Equipment > Paint Booths
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Automotive Tools > Shop Equipment > Tire Changers / Wheel Balancers
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Aviation Parts > Engines
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Boat Parts > Motors/Engines & Components > Outboard Motors > Over 200 hp
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Car & Truck Parts > Engines & Components
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Motorcycle Parts > American > Engines & Components
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Motorcycle Parts > Asian > Engines & Components
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Motorcycle Parts > British & European > Engine & Components
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Racing Parts > Auto Racing Parts > Engine & Components
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Salvage Parts Cars
Motors > Parts & Accessories > Vintage Car & Truck Parts > Engines & Components
Business & Industrial > Agriculture & Forestry > Farm Implements & Attachments
Business & Industrial > Agriculture & Forestry > Tractors & Farm Machinery
Business & Industrial > Construction > Buildings, Modular & Pre-Fab
Business & Industrial > Construction > Heavy Equip. Parts & Manuals
Business & Industrial > Construction > Heavy Equipment, Trailers
Business & Industrial > Healthcare, Lab & Life Science > Imaging & Aesthetics Equipment
Business & Industrial > Industrial Supply & MRO > Cleaning Equipment & Supplies > Sweepers & Scrubbers
Business & Industrial > Industrial Supply& MRO > Fork Lifts & Other Lifts
Business & Industrial > Industrial Supply & MRO > HVAC > HVAC Units
Business & Industrial > Manufacturing & Metalworking > Manufacturing Equipment
Business & Industrial > Manufacturing & Metalworking > Metalworking Equipment
Business & Industrial > Manufacturing & Metalworking > Woodworking > Equipment & Machinery
Business & Industrial > Printing & Graphic Arts > Bindery & Finishing Equipment
Business & Industrial > Printing & Graphic Arts > Commercial Printing Presses
Business & Industrial > Printing & Graphic Arts > Plotters, Wide Format Printing
Business & Industrial > Restaurant & Catering > Commercial Kitchen Equipment > Cooking & Warming Equipment > Ovens & Ranges
Business & Industrial > Restaurant & Catering > Concession Trailers & Carts > Concession Trailers
Business & Industrial > Restaurant & Catering > Refrigeration & Ice Machines
Real Estate
Everything Else > Adults Only

[Irving]

No, I referred to you as the extremist in the debate because you've been the most extreme. :D

[Byte Stryke]

No, I referred to you as the extremist in the debate because you've been the most extreme. :D

no explosives?
No Towel on my Head?

Does this mean they aren't going to raise the threat level to Mauve?



darn it....


Guess that means I don't get a guest spot on Glen Beck either....
[Cry]

[jake]

Guess that means I don't get a guest spot on Glen Beck either....
[Cry]
You talk too much sense.

Just barely ;)

[Byte Stryke]

You talk too much sense.

Just barely ;)


Source considered, I am not really sure, but I think I have been offended.
Which, considering how today has gone, doesn't really mean shit. [LOL]

[rondog]

it really does matter what you bought and when.
There have been cases where the Buyers account is flagged and cancelled and the sellers account and funds are seized for violating their TOS.
you dont sell on feebay without paying the fee

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html

Oh, well, that explains it. Nearly all my purchases were old Jeep parts.

[Irving]

You guys were confusing "extremist" with "terrorist" by the way.

[Byte Stryke]

You guys were confusing "extremist" with "terrorist" by the way.

Aren't they usually one and the same, if not eventually?

:D