M4 Toruture test

[Colorado Osprey]

I'm not sure if you've seen this video:
http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/01/12/world/asia/1247466496261/m-4a1-******-test.html

The interesting thing from my perspective is at round 911 it quit full auto fire.. . it appears that the gas tube melted after the hand guards caught fire. But the weapon still fires by hand cycling the action.

That's reliability in my book... it still can function as a weapon!

[steveopia]

Wow. That's a pretty neat video. Makes me want to get an AR again.

[mikedubs]

Interesting how the ROF slows drastically after 4:00 down to 500-600 RPM. Why is that? Drooping gas tube?; filthy and plugged gas tube?

[Colorado Osprey]

Interesting how the ROF slows drastically after 4:00 down to 500-600 RPM. Why is that? Drooping gas tube?; filthy and plugged gas tube?

You can see the flash from under (through) the hand guard so I'm guessing a ruptured gas tube.

[StagLefty]

That was definitely a torture test !!! [Beer]

[Hoser]

Now thats not fair. We all know that piston guns are the way of the future and DI guns are junk.

[gcrookston]

Now thats not fair. We all know that piston guns are the way of the future and DI guns are junk.

I agree, the results of field testing were a mistake and the HK416 program really is the answer to that problem that was solved 45 years ago. HK just wasn't able to explain the definition of "no improvement over current" and that little small blurb about the their new piston guns experiencing slightly more failures than those old worn out DI guns during evaluation in dirty conditions...

Go figure.

[Colorado Osprey]

Sorry, I'm not a piston kinda guy. From the decrease in accuracy created by the piston I'll stick with DI.

It takes 900 shots in under 5 minutes to create a problem and the weapon still works if need be it has about the same cyclic rate as a bolt action.

Anybody who tries to use an M4 or M16 as a SAW needs to rethink how they are protecting themselves. Also, what a waste of ammo. The SAW is meant to shoot like that. The M4 was never intended to see that kind of rate of fire for so long. Heck it was more than a combat load of ammo so the military never intended for it to happen either!

I think the piston solves a problem that never was a problem... to me they just aren't worth the extra $$. BTW I have been using the DI for over 20 years. Never a problem related to the DI in a real world senerio or in training. This covers about 10 weapons and about 50,000 rounds.

[steveopia]

From the decrease in accuracy created by the piston I'll stick with DI.

Roughly how much accuracy is lost with the piston? I'm sure that's an open ended question to an extent but I know nothing about it either way really.

[palepainter]

I could live with that performance.

[Irving]

I could live with that performance.

Yeah, but only for 5 minutes. :p

[ronaldrwl]

Interesting but I think most of us are smart enough to pause for a minute when the gun starts to burn.

[ghettodub]

cool video

[steveopia]

Does anyone know of any videos similar to this but with an AK?

[gcrookston]

Does anyone know of any videos similar to this but with an AK?

Look on youtube. There's one with a guy doing mag dumps until it catches fire... It wasn't a scientific test as the one at the beginning of this thread was.

[steveopia]

Look on youtube. There's one with a guy doing mag dumps until it catches fire... It wasn't a scientific test as the one at the beginning of this thread was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14c
This one? Lol. It's already on fire when the video starts. I guess I was more looking for a "scientific" one that states how many rounds it took to get it on fire and how many more until fail. I'd like to do some full auto ammo dumping someday. Looks fun!

[BadShot]

So out of curiosity regarding the decrease in accuracy in Piston vs. DI guns, is there any specific data that can be reference?

I mean it isn't like the run of the mill (and by that I mean the $900-1500) range AR's are what you would call tack drivers in the sense that a dedicated DMR or SPR is. I can't figure that a piston would impact the accuracy in a way that the average mil, LEO or civilian user couldn't either adapt to or even achieve.

The reliability of the system over all is still moderately debatable. DI works, just tends to take more care and servicing and you have to admit that a system that shits where it eats has some draw backs. I can really only speak to the performance of my Piston and DI guns. The Piston runs like a scalded pig, then again the DI guns run like bats out of hell too. Then again if the S.H.T.F. I'd be seriously torn on which to take but most likely would go with one of the DI guns just cause of commonality. If I knew I could ensure critical parts for the piston, I'd damn sure take that.

Again, they both have their roles. I think there have been very significant improvements in the Piston and DI arena's both in the mid range and higher end. Just look at what BCM, LMT, LWRCi, PWS and others are doing in those area's. Gotta love the free market!

[jmg8550]

I think the only real benefit of the gas piston system is the reciever stays cooler. All the hot gases are kept in the piston system. As far as accuracy goes, I'm still not sold that DI guns are more accurate for that reason alone. I think there are other factors, I just don't know what they are. The M14 platform is still a weapon system that has very good accuracy potential. And honestly, how many shooters can shoot better than their rifles are capable of. Still an impressive destructive test though.

[SA Friday]

Yeah, but only for 5 minutes. :p

Lol, if you get into a situation where you have to fire 900 rounds in an hour, you've seriously miscalculated your operational planning. You get into a situation where you shoot 900 rounds in 5 minutes... Well, that's 8 1/2 combat loads, so that's 9 people's ammo. That's a terminal situation already and there will be extra rifles lying arould at that point.

[Irving]

One time a guy at Sportsman's Warehouse told me about how he got into a fire fight with his XD 45 in Iraq. He shot around 500 rounds, didn't clean the gun, and it still fired just fine the next day! It was the most awesome story that I've ever rolled my eyes at and walked away from.

[bobbyfairbanks]

That is a lot of pistol mags!

[BigBear]

One time a guy at Sportsman's Warehouse told me about how he got into a fire fight with his XD 45 in Iraq. He shot around 500 rounds, didn't clean the gun, and it still fired just fine the next day! It was the most awesome story that I've ever rolled my eyes at and walked away from.


True Story: I was at the range and a ninja jumped out at me so I have to blade and.... wait, wait... That's not how it went.

I was at the range and I fired about 350 rounds through my G19 in one sitting. Didn't have the time to clean it right afterwards so it sat in it's box for about 2 days at which I still didn't clean it because I went back to the range, shot another 100 and there were not any failures. I don't see why an XD couldn't do that...Of course the whole story of being in a fire fight with 500 ruonds of pistol ammunition is weird... but hey, we all can't be super Special Forces dude.

[Irving]

He was trying to make the point that his glorious XD 45 was the only pistol he's ever had that could go 500 rounds without cleaning, then shoot some more. I replied that I've never even heard of a gun that couldn't do that. He was a goon.

[BigBear]

Ah, ok, understood. I was thinking any modern firearm ought to be able to do that with no problems... lol.

[kwando]

watch it at the 2:25 mark... :)