GOP a "minor party" if Maes doesn't get 10%

[OgenRwot]

If Maes doesn't get 10% of the vote (which he may very well not) the GOP would be considered a minor party. That means there would be no primary "season" and that would cut GOP fundraising in half. You're allowed to donate x amount during the primary and x amount again during the general to major party candidates. If the GOP slips to minor party then we would effectivly get fundraising cut in half. That would cripple conservatives efforts in the 2012 and 2014 elections.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2010/10/02/memo-outlines-gop-woes-if-dan-maes-doesnt-win-10-percent/15575/

http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2010/09/30/status-change-poses-gop-fundraising-proble/15481/?source=ARK_spot

That being said I'm considering voting for Maes now just so he can get 10% so conservatives have a shot in the next two elections. As much as it is about principle and what not I gotta do what's best for us in the long run as well. If we only have the opportunity to raise half the funds of the Dems we're going to be screwed.

On a side note, the fact that Tancredo is going to get over 10% that means that the American Constitution Party is going to have to run caucuses in every precinct in the next two elections which they will be unable to do according to their state chairman. For example, in one county they have 50 registered voters and 25 precincts. If they had 100% turn out and the voters were distributed equally...which they are not they would have two voters at each caucus. I'm trying to find the article on this one I'll update if I can.

[Irving]

So you're saying that the American Constitutional Party can not simply take over the GOP's position?

[Zundfolge]

So the CO GOP will be decimated along with the CO AC party ... yeah, I'm more and more convinced that Tancredo was paid by leftists to enter this election.


Oh well, Colorado has been a lovely place to live ... too bad that's going to end soon.

[OgenRwot]

No the American Constitution party here in Colorado doesn't have the infrastructure (man power, organization or money) to take over "just like that". I'm trying to find the article where they quote the AC chairman about how they would have a difficult time doing it because they are getting a lot of support but not a lot of voter registration.

ETA: I can't find the article, I swear it was on the Denver Post but it's not there anymore. Still looking...

[OgenRwot]

It was in the Durango Herald but here's the story, it's pretty interesting:

http://durangoherald.com/sections/News/2010/10/01/Success_may_alter_Tancredos_new_party/

ETA: they didn't quote the ACP chairman...my bad.

[brianakell]

The GOP also looses delegates for Presidential committee too. In fact, they loose canidates if ACP get over 10% too (if I understand correct). Basically having Tancredo in the race, means less input from Colorado for who runs for Prez.

[Irving]

What are the realistic chances that if Tancredo makes it into office, that former GOP members and voters will defect over to ACP in time to get better results for future elections?

[68Charger]

you reap what you sow... maybe it will be a wake-up call to Colorado GOP, and they'll clean house & change their practices...

if not, they deserve to remain a minor party...

[brianakell]

you reap what you sow... maybe it will be a wake-up call to Colorado GOP, and they'll clean house & change their practices...

if not, they deserve to remain a minor party...

They didnt get the wake up call with Maes knocking out McInnis. And even now seem to concerned with with own bs than actually getting funding to the GOP candidate. Im really wondering how many in the GOP right now, actually want Hickenlooper, they sure arent trying to stop him.

I know Im unaffiliating. Maybe a drop in the registed GOP voters will get their attention (doubt it).

[68Charger]

They didnt get the wake up call with Maes knocking out McInnis. And even now seem to concerned with with own bs than actually getting funding to the GOP candidate. Im really wondering how many in the GOP right now, actually want Hickenlooper, they sure arent trying to stop him.

I know Im unaffiliating. Maybe a drop in the registed GOP voters will get their attention (doubt it).

I'm thinking that HALVING their funding will get their attention.. "when you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow"

1st rule of politics: follow the money

[OgenRwot]

What are the realistic chances that if Tancredo makes it into office, that former GOP members and voters will defect over to ACP in time to get better results for future elections?

It's not going to happen. I think most of the people on this board would have a big problem with the ACP platform. Seems to me that most people on CO-AR15 are typically liberty minded and more focused on fiscal conservatism and limited government than the social issues. They use God as justification for 3/4 of their platform: http://www.americanconstitutionparty.com/PlatformDetail.html

They aren't a good fit for 90% of conservatives. That's why they are a small party that doesn't get any attention until Tom Tancredo hijacks the party.


I'm thinking that HALVING their funding will get their attention.. "when you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow"

1st rule of politics: follow the money

Yeah and while you've "get them by the balls" the Democrats are going to make huge sweeping gains in every single level of government from the Governor's Office all the way down to County Commissioners. The amount of damage that will be done will take decades if not longer to fix.

This was the argument against McCain and now we have socialized medicine and two more ridiculously liberal Supreme Court Justices not to mention a whole slew of federally appointed positions including federal judges that serve life terms. Judges we can't take back and I don't really see anything happening with healthcare as far as repealing it. The way it's been implemented pretty much sets it in stone.

[brianakell]

I'm thinking that HALVING their funding will get their attention.. "when you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow"

1st rule of politics: follow the money
So off to the Dems side they go! Those guys preach "steal from everyone, give some away, keep most for yourself!"

I think both side needs a serious wake-up, and need to quit playing politics, and actually run a country. Instead, its all about pet projects, ear-marks, deals etc. Nothing good for any of us.

[68Charger]

Yeah and while you've "get them by the balls" the Democrats are going to make huge sweeping gains in every single level of government from the Governor's Office all the way down to County Commissioners. The amount of damage that will be done will take decades if not longer to fix.

you seem to be implying that it's the voter's fault... (like Mr. Kerry?) the GOP did this to themselves by only making "dumb & dumber" available in the governor's race!

I didn't do this, the idiotic management of the Colorado GOP did this...

put the blame where it belongs, and think for yourself!

[OgenRwot]

you seem to be implying that it's the voter's fault... (like Mr. Kerry?) the GOP did this to themselves by only making "dumb & dumber" available in the governor's race!

I didn't do this, the idiotic management of the Colorado GOP did this...

put the blame where it belongs, and think for yourself!

I don't put the blame squarely on anybody. Is it the voters fault, to an extent yes I think so. "Plagiarism" aside I think McInnis would have been the perfect candidate for the current political climate right now in Colorado. Is he my ideal gubernatorial candidate? Nope. But he did force out Ritter in the primary because he was polling so high.

Who do I blame for that one, Scott gets some, the Hassan Foundation gets a lot (they waited to drop that bomb at the right time to get revenge on Scott for not endorsing Ali Hassan for Treasurer in a primary), the Denver Post gets a lot of blame for this one too, running front page hit jobs (several ending up being false by the way) for 8 days in a row was an obvious assault on conservatives. And the 20,000 people that voted in the Senate primary but not the Gubanatorial primary get a lot of the blame too. Does it suck to vote for the lesser of two evils? Yeah. Would McInnis have beat Hickenlooper, most likely (Scott held higher favorable ratings than Maes and Tanc even during the plagiarism stuff). Would conservatives in Colorado via the GOP be getting handcuffed right now with McInnis as their nominee, I would say not a chance. You can even place blame on Tancredo. If he wouldn't have done the selfish thing that he's doing Maes still loses but with more than 10% of the vote. Tancredo is not going to win this one no matter how badly you want him to. Even if Maes dropped out he probably doesn't get elected. But that's neither here nor there because he's on the ACP ticket and not the GOP ticket so we're back at square one.

You can point fingers at Dick Wadhams all you want but at the end of the day it's not his fault entirely. Hell you could even say it's the voters fault for placing Dick in that position in the first place. After all, it is Republicans that vote for party leadership.

It's too easy to sit back and blame everybody else for this one. At the end of the day it's kind of a perfect shit storm. A lot of things went bad all at the same time. All of those things were independent variables. Sorry but there's no way Dick Wadhams orchestrated this one. This is better than some Hollywood flick on bad politics.

[68Charger]

I don't put the blame squarely on anybody. Is it the voters fault, to an extent yes I think so.

Nice, we're going to blame voters for not voting for your favorite? They can only vote based on the information publicly available, which wasn't very pretty- he tried to blame a "research assistant" for the plagiarism, but when backed into a corner, he gives back the $300,000 as a settlement- just getting $300,000 to write a paper about a lake is a bit fishy (pun intended) in the first place, IMHO.


"Plagiarism" aside I think McInnis would have been the perfect candidate for the current political climate right now in Colorado. Is he my ideal gubernatorial candidate? Nope. But he did force out Ritter in the primary because he was polling so high.

That's a pretty big thing to put aside... basically fraud- the "research assistant" didn't get $300,000 for the paper, and his name wasn't on it... don't put your name on publications that you don't know the source of.
Yes, he was polling pretty high before the little accusations were made public... then he plummeted pretty fast.


Who do I blame for that one, Scott gets some,
I'd say he owns it- he screwed up... maybe he was tricked, maybe it was a left-wing conspiracy to get some dirt on him, blackmail him later... even if that's true, he took the bait 100%.


the Hassan Foundation gets a lot (they waited to drop that bomb at the right time to get revenge on Scott for not endorsing Ali Hassan for Treasurer in a primary), the Denver Post gets a lot of blame for this one too, running front page hit jobs (several ending up being false by the way) for 8 days in a row was an obvious assault on conservatives. And the 20,000 people that voted in the Senate primary but not the Gubanatorial primary get a lot of the blame too. Does it suck to vote for the lesser of two evils? Yeah. Would McInnis have beat Hickenlooper, most likely (Scott held higher favorable ratings than Maes and Tanc even during the plagiarism stuff). Would conservatives in Colorado via the GOP be getting handcuffed right now with McInnis as their nominee, I would say not a chance. You can even place blame on Tancredo. If he wouldn't have done the selfish thing that he's doing Maes still loses but with more than 10% of the vote.

Politics as usual- not controlling or managing the infighting is another thing I'd put on the back of the GOP... they didn't see it coming... you can't control the press, pesky 1st amendment... if McInnis was more favorable than Maes during the plagiarism "stuff", then why did he lose the primary? I won't pretend to know Tancredo's motives like you do- I don't know him...


Tancredo is not going to win this one no matter how badly you want him to. Even if Maes dropped out he probably doesn't get elected. But that's neither here nor there because he's on the ACP ticket and not the GOP ticket so we're back at square one.

You keep insisting that I'm a Tancredo supporter- he's just the "lesser of the evils" that are on the ballot. If the GOP's candidates could have behaved themselves he wouldn't stand any chance, probably would have never entered the election, and we wouldn't be in this mess.


You can point fingers at Dick Wadhams all you want but at the end of the day it's not his fault entirely. Hell you could even say it's the voters fault for placing Dick in that position in the first place. After all, it is Republicans that vote for party leadership.

Here we go blaming the voters again- he & the committee were given a job to do, how's that working out?


It's too easy to sit back and blame everybody else for this one. At the end of the day it's kind of a perfect shit storm. A lot of things went bad all at the same time. All of those things were independent variables. Sorry but there's no way Dick Wadhams orchestrated this one. This is better than some Hollywood flick on bad politics.

I've never said nor implied that Wadham "orchestrated" this one- that's a totally new theory to me... Bottom line- the Colorado GOP committee was given the job to put a candidate in office- right now it looks like they failed.


and that's not a very pretty "reality"- but that's where it appears to be going... because the GOP ran a crappy campaign with candidates that couldn't convince the public they could be trusted... at least in the gubernatorial race.

[68Charger]

I guess I can "think forward" better than most. Today only lasts 24 hours. The next forever though, is a very long time. At some point, you reach the point of no-return - when the exodus of conservative/libertarians from Colorado cuts their platform, while the immigration of progressives/socialists/mindless liberals makes it impossible to improve Colorado's future. It's a problem that gets harder to cure with time. Already we have a slight exodus of cons/liber to places like Montana, Arizona, etc. That will only get worse as the future looks more bleak.

In my opinion, that point of no return will be within the next 4-8 years. With the way this election is turning out, probably less than four. Inevitably, Colorado will become as politically f**ked as California. There is still an exodus of conservatives from CA. It wasn't always like that. But, that is why California is now forever branded commiefornia. Some people can both think for themselves, and they also live in a wonderful place called "reality".

This sounds more like a lament than an argument- I'd say the only way to stem the tide would be to clean up the GOP's act- rather than just lament that this state is going to fully turn blue...

I agree it's on a precipice, the #s between registered Democrats & Republicans are close- and with a high number of "unaffiliated"- the majority are probably in that category because one of the major parties torqued them off at one point. Clean up & reform the party- and appeal to them to come back...

Maybe I just needed to vent... because I feel better now (besides the cold I picked up)

[Irving]

I recently changed the address on my registration and remained "unaffiliated." Perhaps before the next election I'll re-register again so I can vote in the primary that I want.

[OneGuy67]

I have this nagging feeling that if Tancredo was to win, he would switch his party affiliation within a year back to republican in order to assist the 2012 elections. Its something he could do, not unlike others at the state and federal level who have done so here in Colorado, the biggest being Ben Nighthorse Campbell.

Just my belief as I don't think his personal positions match that of the constitution party and they were just a (knowing) vehicle to get done what he wanted to do.

[OgenRwot]

Nice, we're going to blame voters for not voting for your favorite? They can only vote based on the information publicly available, which wasn't very pretty- he tried to blame a "research assistant" for the plagiarism, but when backed into a corner, he gives back the $300,000 as a settlement- just getting $300,000 to write a paper about a lake is a bit fishy (pun intended) in the first place, IMHO.

That's a pretty big thing to put aside... basically fraud- the "research assistant" didn't get $300,000 for the paper, and his name wasn't on it... don't put your name on publications that you don't know the source of.
Yes, he was polling pretty high before the little accusations were made public... then he plummeted pretty fast.

I'd say he owns it- he screwed up... maybe he was tricked, maybe it was a left-wing conspiracy to get some dirt on him, blackmail him later... even if that's true, he took the bait 100%.

Not for my favorite, but as William F Buckley would say, "Vote for the most conservative candidate that can win". I do believe that McInnis still had a shot at winning. Secondly, McInnis had a two year fellowship with the Hassan foundation, he was paid 150,00 a year. Part of the fellowship was to write the papers. It is far from out of the ordinary for anybody to write a paper and rely heavily on research assistants. In academia, in politics, in business, anywhere. He realized a mistake he made and tried to save face. I don't really know how we got onto this tangent but it's off topic.

Politics as usual- not controlling or managing the infighting is another thing I'd put on the back of the GOP... they didn't see it coming... you can't control the press, pesky 1st amendment... if McInnis was more favorable than Maes during the plagiarism "stuff", then why did he lose the primary? I won't pretend to know Tancredo's motives like you do- I don't know him...

You can't be serious when you say you want the GOP to control candidates. We get upset when the GOP establishment picks our candidates. We got mad when Penry was forced out by the GOP and now you want them to control candidates? Not only is it ridiculous to think the GOP can actually control candidates but we don't want them to in the first place.

Secondly, I don't claim to know Tancredo's motives. However, I do not think he's paid by the left or any other wild conspiracy like that. I do think that he is self absorbed and thinks he's hot shit. I mean that's pretty obvious, look at his 08 Presidential run.

You keep insisting that I'm a Tancredo supporter- he's just the "lesser of the evils" that are on the ballot. If the GOP's candidates could have behaved themselves he wouldn't stand any chance, probably would have never entered the election, and we wouldn't be in this mess.

I didn't mean you as in YOU, I meant it generally speaking. I should have said: "No matter how bad people want Tanc to win he's not going to"

Here we go blaming the voters again- he & the committee were given a job to do, how's that working out?

GOP voters have every single opportunity to elect all of them and Dick was reelected last year even though everybody seems to hate the guy. My point is this, stop blaming everybody else. The citizen has way more influence than one might think. Did you go to the caucuses the past few years? Were you a delegate to your county and state convention?

The committee has very little to do with actually getting Republicans elected. Frankly I'm not sure what the hell they do other than help raise funds, campaigns are largely run internally or with help from a consultant.

I've never said nor implied that Wadham "orchestrated" this one- that's a totally new theory to me... Bottom line- the Colorado GOP committee was given the job to put a candidate in office- right now it looks like they failed.

A lot of people blame Wadhams for this one because they think he orchestrated the early stages of the primary with Penry etc.

and that's not a very pretty "reality"- but that's where it appears to be going... because the GOP ran a crappy campaign with candidates that couldn't convince the public they could be trusted... at least in the gubernatorial race.

The state party has very little to do with any candidate and they do not run the big time campaigns, they don't even have much influence there and that's the point. Sure they might help out with some state legislatures and they have phone banks but they did not run McInnis' nor Maes campaign. Nor Bucks, Norton, Coffman, Frazier, Fallon, Bailey, Tipton, Gardner, Lamborn etc etc etc. They do have money but the orchestrate things on smaller levels.

[OgenRwot]

I have this nagging feeling that if Tancredo was to win, he would switch his party affiliation within a year back to republican in order to assist the 2012 elections. Its something he could do, not unlike others at the state and federal level who have done so here in Colorado, the biggest being Ben Nighthorse Campbell.

Just my belief as I don't think his personal positions match that of the constitution party and they were just a (knowing) vehicle to get done what he wanted to do.

This is a very good point and I think you're absolutely right. I think the ACP is gonna look back at 2010 and realized they whored themselves out and it didn't do them any good. If I was an ACP member and I voted in their state caucus for my candidate I would be pissed. The ACP just let Tom boot their guy and take the nomination to most likely do exactly what you're saying. My opinion remains unchanged however, Tanc will not win the general, there is no way.

[Zundfolge]

I have this nagging feeling that if Tancredo was to win, he would switch his party affiliation within a year back to republican in order to assist the 2012 elections. Its something he could do, not unlike others at the state and federal level who have done so here in Colorado, the biggest being Ben Nighthorse Campbell.

Just my belief as I don't think his personal positions match that of the constitution party and they were just a (knowing) vehicle to get done what he wanted to do.
I believe he's all but said that was what he'd do and he has been clear that he's a Republican just using the Constitution Party (and they seem fine with that too).

[LippCJ7]

Todays Rasmussen Poll: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2010/election_2010_governor_elections/colorado/election_2010_colorado_governor

Hick: 43%
Tancredo: 35%
Maes: 16%

Tancredo makes 20 points in 4 weeks, he is 8 points down from Hick and yet were still crying that Tancredo did this or Tancredo did that, lets face it fellas he's the candidate for the right, its time to suck it up and vote for him, he didn't do anything to Mcinnis or Maes they did it to themselves and Maes is clearly not going to drop out, he still has 16% of the vote which would make Tancredo the clear winner, stop the BS and lets put Tancredo in office we could do a lot worse.

Also as reported today on KHOW: http://www.khow.com/pages/caplisandsilverman.html

the Dems are playing hardball, in the republican primary, attacking Mcinnis while leaving Maes alone. Sounds to me as though the Dems are pulling out all the stops for the governor race which shouldn't be a surprise since it looks like their candidates are either completely safe or in serious trouble and if we can get our crap together we can put the governors race in the bag, and thats the biggest prize in November, other wise we can continue to piss in each others wheaties and cry some more. This is a simple decision guys, Tancredo probably did it the wrong way but in the end he was right, and in the end he can win.

[Zundfolge]

Through all this mess I've grown to detest Tancredo ... he's still better than Hickenlooper (but I've scraped stuff off the bottom of my shoe that would be better than Hick).

Looks like I'll be holding my nose to vote for him (Tancredo that is).

[OgenRwot]

I don't know where this turned into an "Ogen hates Tancredo" argument. That's not what it's about. What I said from the beginning is that Tom is not going to win. Maes is not going to win. But if Maes doesn't get 10% then conservatives running for state level offices on down will be severely handcuffed financially. If you don't think money wins elections you're wrong. My point is that it's probably not a bad idea to vote for Maes so that the GOP doesn't forfeit the next two elections by default to the Democrats.

Believe me, I don't like Maes and as Zundfolge said, I can't stand Tancredo now either. I'm not complaining that McInnis isn't in the race. He's not so let's move along.

[OgenRwot]

Todays Rasmussen Poll: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2010/election_2010_governor_elections/colorado/election_2010_colorado_governor

Hick: 43%
Tancredo: 35%
Maes: 16%

Tancredo makes 20 points in 4 weeks, he is 8 points down from Hick and yet were still crying that Tancredo did this or Tancredo did that, lets face it fellas he's the candidate for the right, its time to suck it up and vote for him, he didn't do anything to Mcinnis or Maes they did it to themselves and Maes is clearly not going to drop out, he still has 16% of the vote which would make Tancredo the clear winner, stop the BS and lets put Tancredo in office we could do a lot worse.

Also as reported today on KHOW: http://www.khow.com/pages/caplisandsilverman.html

the Dems are playing hardball, in the republican primary, attacking Mcinnis while leaving Maes alone. Sounds to me as though the Dems are pulling out all the stops for the governor race which shouldn't be a surprise since it looks like their candidates are either completely safe or in serious trouble and if we can get our crap together we can put the governors race in the bag, and thats the biggest prize in November, other wise we can continue to piss in each others wheaties and cry some more. This is a simple decision guys, Tancredo probably did it the wrong way but in the end he was right, and in the end he can win.

Hickenlooper has not dropped below 42% since he entered the race. The only candidate that was ever beating him was McInnis when it was 46-41 in mid June. Tancredo's "surge" in the polls is not at Hickenloopers expense, Tanc rises and Maes drops. People see the SS Maes sinking rather quickly and they are jumping ship over to the Tancredo ticket. Tanc didn't make up 20 points on Hick, he made up 20 points on Maes.

When Tanc jumped in it was Hick 43% Maes 27% and Tanc 24% that was August 2nd.

On August 13th it was
H 43
M 31
T 18

September 14th
H 46
M 21
T 25

Oct 5th
H 43
M 16
T 35

Hickenlooper isn't going anywhere, he's polling consistently since he announced he was running. He hasn't hit the magic 50% threshold yet but he wont have to this year.

[Zundfolge]

Tanc didn't make up 20 points on Hick, he made up 20 points on Maes.

When Tanc jumped in it was Hick 43% Maes 27% and Tanc 24% that was August 2nd.

Oct 5th
H 43
M 16
T 35

This is what causes me such consternation.

If Tancredo can gain just 9 more points he wins and Colorado is sort of saved. If he takes all those points from Maes it may mean Tancredo will be Colorado's last Republican governor for a LONG time (however if Hickenlooper wins I predict Owens as Colorado's last Republican governor for a LONG time...of course some would argue that would make Vanderhoof the last Republican governor for a long time :p ).

Ideally the election will come down something like:
H 43
M 10
T 44

But yeah, that's some Pollyanna shit right there [Bang]

[OgenRwot]

Even if Maes were to drop at this point you have enough hard line Maes supporters that just wont vote or will write in Maes. I think that's going to happen anyway, many GOPers just wont vote. I also know a lot of conservatives that are planning on voting for Hick because they are afraid Maes is simply retarded and that will hurt the future GOP and they are afraid that Tanc is way too far right and that will also hurt the future GOP. We're going to see an undervote just like what happened in the primary. Don't be surprised to see 40-50,000 less people vote for governor than they did for Senate.

ETA:
Hick wouldn't be the worst thing that happened to this state. Ritter is way to the left of Hick. Hick is a businessman and the Colorado Chamber of Commerce is saying his short list for advisers is also very business friendly. He's not above lowering taxes either. I'm not going to vote for him but I'm not terrified of a Governor Hickenlooper either.

[OgenRwot]

A little bit more on the situation from the Denver Post this morning:
http://www.denverpost.com/election2010/ci_16254377

[LippCJ7]

I don't know where this turned into an "Ogen hates Tancredo" argument. That's not what it's about. What I said from the beginning is that Tom is not going to win. Maes is not going to win. But if Maes doesn't get 10% then conservatives running for state level offices on down will be severely handcuffed financially. If you don't think money wins elections you're wrong. My point is that it's probably not a bad idea to vote for Maes so that the GOP doesn't forfeit the next two elections by default to the Democrats.

Believe me, I don't like Maes and as Zundfolge said, I can't stand Tancredo now either. I'm not complaining that McInnis isn't in the race. He's not so let's move along.

OgenRwot, if my post came off to you that I was blasting you I apologize as that wasn't my intentions at all.

As for the possibility that the GOP could become a minor party, they dug the hole themselves. I was for Tancredo when he decided to pull out, then Penry dropped out now I am backing Mcinnis and not happy about it, when Tancredo started demanding Mcinnis and Maes withdraw I agreed with him and when he went outside the party to enter the race again I was very happy but also knew that this could be the end of the GOP for a long time. I hope thats not the case, I hope the GOP leadership realizes that we are in charge not them and that alot of us are sick and tired of their arrogance. I want to choose who runs for office, not be given a choice of candidates dictated by the leadership, this is further backed by the fact that neither candidate the GOP gave us was vetted or checked out they simply said here are your candidates.........vote. Welcome to a pissed of bunch of voters.

At any rate, Tancredo is extreme I don't bother defending that, he is brash and I understand alot of people think he is self centered and has a huge ego, well I have talked to him a couple times and as far as him being self centered and has a huge ego? I say BS he was great to talk to, I enjoyed it very much, being extreme and brash? well so am I.

[sroz]

Why all this concern over the Republican, Democrat or American Constiitution parties. I hope they all go belly up. Political parties lead to corruption and we definitely have an over-abundance of that!! Why do you think so many of our founding fathers were against organized parties??? It irks me to hear all these folks concerned about the future of their parties when they should be concerned about the future of this state and this country; which by the way the parties are not.
It's real simple, guys:

The Hick and everything he stands for,
Maes and his fairy tales, or
Tancredo.

Our actions have consequences. Maes doesn't have a chance and as long as the votes are split between he and Tancredo, Hick is our man.

[68Charger]

I noticed this:

"Minor-party candidates only stand for a primary election if they're challenged by one of their own. "

doesn't that also mean they get to raise funds for primary election just by having another GOP candidate run against them in the primary?

[jim02]

Im crying my eyes out, boohoo if the GOP gets demoted.

They did this to themselves and anyone voting just to save the GOP from droping down is only hurting Colorado.
This 2 party system is what has gotten us where we are today, supporting it out of fear has gotten us nothing in the past 20 years, its time to smoke the Colorado GOP out and if the house burns then thats the way they can have it.

[trlcavscout]

The GOP also looses delegates for Presidential committee too. In fact, they loose canidates if ACP get over 10% too (if I understand correct). Basically having Tancredo in the race, means less input from Colorado for who runs for Prez.


That may not be a bad thing? CO has a lot of lib voters.

Also listening to the mud slinging radio ads bad mouthing Tancreado, I may have to vote for him? He is terrible for wanting english to be the official language.

[OgenRwot]

Why all this concern over the Republican, Democrat or American Constiitution parties. I hope they all go belly up. Political parties lead to corruption and we definitely have an over-abundance of that!! Why do you think so many of our founding fathers were against organized parties??? It irks me to hear all these folks concerned about the future of their parties when they should be concerned about the future of this state and this country; which by the way the parties are not.
It's real simple, guys:

The Hick and everything he stands for,
Maes and his fairy tales, or
Tancredo.

Our actions have consequences. Maes doesn't have a chance and as long as the votes are split between he and Tancredo, Hick is our man.

Many of our Founding Fathers were against parties before the government started...but how do you explain the fact that there were political parties formed, by Founding Fathers, before Washington was out of office? They didn't foresee a big issue with factions in the country, they thought the republic would work smoothly without huge disagreement. Obviously they were wrong.

Parties are the vehicles that make ideas happen. If we weren't organized it would be a whole bunch of individuals spinning their wheels in the mud. Organization is necessary to republican forms of government. To say that parties are not interested in the future of the state is to have an overly simplistic view of politics.


I noticed this:

"Minor-party candidates only stand for a primary election if they're challenged by one of their own. "

doesn't that also mean they get to raise funds for primary election just by having another GOP candidate run against them in the primary?



Keep in mind this is for state politics only. Most of the seats don't have primary challenges.


Im crying my eyes out, boohoo if the GOP gets demoted.

They did this to themselves and anyone voting just to save the GOP from droping down is only hurting Colorado.
This 2 party system is what has gotten us where we are today, supporting it out of fear has gotten us nothing in the past 20 years, its time to smoke the Colorado GOP out and if the house burns then thats the way they can have it.

Multi-party systems aren't all they are cracked up to be. Take a look at Europe. Look at the UK, the conservatives had to form a coalition with the liberals just to get a prime minister. That means that they have to "scratch each other's back". Everybody got pissed at McCain for working across the isle too much, how would you like it if our newly elected Senator Buck voted with Harry Reid 40% of the time?

The way our government it set up makes it almost a defacto two party system. Good luck breaking the two party system up. It's been tried, read your American History.

[Irving]

Channel 2 "The Duece" had Dan Maes on this morning. I didn't hear much as I was just walking out the door, but I did hear the guy ask Dan if he paid any attention to the polls, and Dan said something like No, I disregard the polls. They don't mean anything. The polls have never even shown us winning.

Way to go Maes. [/sarcasm]

[jim02]

Good luck breaking the two party system up. It's been tried, read your American History.

I have and many a party has gone the way of the dodo even the major ones. Maybe we will always be a 2 party system but the 2 in power dont have to remain the same 2 and have not according to history.

[sroz]

Many of our Founding Fathers were against parties before the government started...but how do you explain the fact that there were political parties formed, by Founding Fathers, before Washington was out of office? They didn't foresee a big issue with factions in the country, they thought the republic would work smoothly without huge disagreement. Obviously they were wrong.

Parties are the vehicles that make ideas happen. If we weren't organized it would be a whole bunch of individuals spinning their wheels in the mud. Organization is necessary to republican forms of government. To say that parties are not interested in the future of the state is to have an overly simplistic view of politics.


True, they were split on the concept, however both Washington and Adams remained against it to the end mainly because they foresaw the problems we are today dealing with. Jefferson and Hamilton were both for the party system for their own reasons.

True also that parties are vehicles that make ideas happen....until the parties themselves become a higher priority than the good of the country and the will of the people. Depending on one's perspective, some would find it difficult to come up with many good ideas this past decade and may even say we are spinning our wheels in the mud or something of similar consistency.

Once the priority becomes themselves and those who support their need for power and money, the whole argument falls by the wayside. Several Repubs (btw, I am a true Independent) have publicly stated their loyalty to their party regardless of the character of their candidate. This will cause more damage to the party than standing up for principle. Party is not principle.

When we get right down to it, the fact that we can engage in these discussions in an open forum speaks to what a great country we live in. We can however always strive to make it better.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I've generally liked Tom Tancredo but I have to say his move here annoyed the piss out of me. All he's going to do is split the vote enough to gift Hickenlooper with an undeserved victory like Wilson in 1912 and Clinton in 1992 and 1996. He should have run in the GOP primary if he felt both Maes and McInnis were unqualified.

I don't trust news from the Denver Post much less "political analysis" so will wait to see what transpires after the election. 15% is "dangerously close to single digits"? Hmm ... guess my math classes so many decades ago that said 5 was half of 10 and rounds upward were wrong -- must be that New Math thing.

[OgenRwot]

He's six points away from being in the single digits, he can be there in a week no problem. Remember, Maes has been nose diving in the polls. Tancredo didn't ruin our chances. There is no way Maes beets Hick straight up. Maes is a complete moron, every time news comes out about him it's another huge blow to his campaign. More lies from his camp. More embellishments.

Sure the Post is mostly bat shit liberal but that article wasn't political analysis from the Post was chalked full of quotes from political analysts, did you read it? They are right too.

[Irving]

Anyone read democratic underground? I'm curious if all the Hick supporters are jerking off at how low Maes numbers are and are completely ignoring Tanc, or if they are sending Tanc flowers or what? Anyone know?

[OgenRwot]

I looked around on there the other day, not much in the way of the Gov race. They know Hick has it. The are, however, pissed about Bennett and how he's going to lose to Buck. Oh man the whining coming from them on that one is pretty funny. Actually, the whole site is pretty funny. You thought there was a lot of government conspiracy on conservative and gun sites, you should check out how paranoid they are on there of the Republican Party hahaha. [ROFL1]

[Irving]

I catch glimpses of it in the comments of every article on politics on the web.