View Full Version : 300 AAC Blackout
http://www.300aacblackout.com/
looks a lot like the .300 Whisper
but with relatively inexpensive commercial ammo to be readily available
Colorado Osprey
10-08-2010, 06:16
http://www.300aacblackout.com/
looks a lot like the .300 Whisper
but with relatively inexpensive commercial ammo to be readily available
I'm not sure it will be cheap commercial ammo. Doesn't SSK sell commercial ammo for the Whisper? It aint cheap. I'm sure it will remain more expensive than other commercial rounds like the 6.8SPC.
Copied from oa2.org
http://www.oa2.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11304&highlight=blackout
"I received an email from a principal at AAC just the other day "announcing" this "new" cartridge. In his initial email he went out of his way to tout the platitudes of this "new" round, and really make it look like something new and better than what we had ever seen before. The main crux of his email was this:
He knows that Olympic manufactures 300 Fireball barrels and that we have had great success over the years with them. This "new" cartridge of which this gentlemen represented himself to be the "project lead" in its development, was so close to what we make that he said, "Your chamber is probably already within the spec", but that he recommended we go to HIS reamers, and "recommend you change the name on your barrels to 300 AAC BLACKOUT. People will be asking you for it soon enough." I informed him that they already do ask for it, and that Oly calls it the 300 Fireball, and that we have been manufacturing it for almost 30 years.
After several email exchanges, he wanted me to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement just to see a print of the cartridge. I was a bit thrown off by this, not wanting to get involved with or support an organization, project or individual that wants to push a new branding as an exclusive or otherwise fantastically new development, when it is little more than a rebranding that others have used and made famous over the last 30 years. Remember: JD Jones and all his wondrous rampages about anyone who made a 330/221 Fireball after he branded the name "300 Whisper"? Anyway, the whole NDA thing caused me to make some calls. After 17 years at one company and nearly 25 in the industry, I am not without contacts and resources of my own. In about 30 minutes I confirmed that the cartridge, although submitted IS NOT SAAMI approved as of yet. this was given to me as the reason for the NDA request. Hmmm... But I also received confirmation from a couple of inside industry sources that the chambering is almost identical to what Oly and others have been using for the 300 Fireball/Whisper® all along.
Specifically, I was told, "the headspace is exactly the same as 221 Fireball, the chamber is exactly the same as the 221 Fireball except the neck is .337 tapering to .335. The max case length is 1.368", chamber is 1.378 to where the case mouth would be. Throat is .309 for about .18 then it's a 1.5 degree into the bore."
Anyway the good news is they are advertising a partnership with Remington. Near as I can tell the partnership really seems more like a seller/client relationship with AAC being the buyer of ammo from Remington. In one of his letters he states that there are 5 Million rounds on order. Looking forward to testing some.
While I anticipate fully that the marketing wil continue with the re-branding of the 300 Fireball as the 300 AAC Blackout as the next greatest cartridge to hit the AR, we all know it is not. Something that a theology professor taught me about scripture and doctrine sort of applies here: If it is new, it is not a revelation. If it is a revelation, it is not new". Same principal pretty much applies to the AR after 50 years of tinkering. Yes, there will be some exceptions, most notably the WSSM conversions, but for the most part that adage holds true.
The best news of this, is if it all goes through as projected, is that the ammo will be commercially loaded and available in case lots, that will totally reinvigorate the cartridge, and in the end, in spite of any negatives in the process, I'm all for it.
It will always be a 300 Fireball to me."
theGinsue
10-09-2010, 22:55
Once these "new" cartridges become more commercially available, I'm curious what it'll do to the cost and how that cost will then stack up to the 5.56 or .223Rem.
I certainly like the idea of a .30 caliber cartridge out of an AR platform for more knock-down power, but I've avoided going that route as of yet due the the financial aspects and availability of it.
I am glad someone finally standardized the 300 Whisper. I would bet JDJ is fuming mad though. His fault for playing I have a secret for so long.
I will be making Blackout brass as soon as I get a copy of the reamer specs and a fired case or two. I have already done over 50K 300 Whisper brass so far this year.
Ammo is out.
Supersonic is about .60 a shot and subsonic is about a buck a shot. Much better than 300 Whisper factory ammo.
I have read the Blackout will eat Whisper ammo. Now SBR .300 Blackout upper firing subsonic on a FA lower would be a hoot ;)
kidicarus13
09-30-2011, 18:32
I believe you are correct.
I have read the Blackout will eat Whisper ammo. Now SBR .300 Blackout upper firing subsonic on a FA lower would be a hoot ;)
True. The Blackout is kinda like a 5.56 and the Whisper is kinda like a 223.
When you get back we can go run my M-16 a bit.
from what i've seen ammo for it, both sub and supersonic are nearly 1$ a rnd still. I'm hoping to build a SBR in .300 whisper, but not in a big rush with the price of .300 whisper compared to .556
it's a pretty cool round, the BC of the subsonic with heavy bullets is great. and super sonic is about the same energy of a .30-.30 or 7.62x39
I see all of the posts in this thread TOTALLY got lost due to the rewind.
Oh well finally figured out and finalized my .300 BLK configuration.
More to come.................
Sharpienads
05-27-2012, 16:55
I'm currently building a rifle in 300BLK. Got an AAC upper and a Noveske N4 Chainsaw lower. I can't wait to finish it and go out and shoot 'er!!! The good news is ammo is down around 5.56 prices.
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/Sharpienads/300BLKammo.jpg
I'm currently building a rifle in 300BLK. Got an AAC upper and a Noveske N4 Chainsaw lower. I can't wait to finish it and go out and shoot 'er!!! The good news is ammo is down around 5.56 prices.
COngrats! There is some good ammo coming available.
That is the UMC stuff and great for all around plinking and a good price.For 10 boxes/200 rds that is a little over $110 ducks.
Every I have read the 110gr Hornady V-max and the new 110grain Barnes Vortex seems to be the best for stopping power. In fact "Stickman" did a review nicknaming the Barnes the "Destroyer".
I have some 125grain Nosler ballistic, 147grain PNW range rounds and want to get some sub-sonic and that UMC stuff to take and make sure my new .300 BLK pistol can eat it all. :D
Sharpienads
05-28-2012, 18:40
COngrats! There is some good ammo coming available.
That is the UMC stuff and great for all around plinking and a good price.For 10 boxes/200 rds that is a little over $110 ducks.
Every I have read the 110gr Hornady V-max and the new 110grain Barnes Vortex seems to be the best for stopping power. In fact "Stickman" did a review nicknaming the Barnes the "Destroyer".
I have some 125grain Nosler ballistic, 147grain PNW range rounds and want to get some sub-sonic and that UMC stuff to take and make sure my new .300 BLK pistol can eat it all. :D
Mine is an SBR, so I figure while I'm waiting for my Form 4 approval I'll have plenty of time to stock up on ammo :)
Finally got a day off to make some Whisper/Blackout brass from 223 for a buddy in Florida.
2,500 pcs only took a couple hours. Now to box it back up and send it back.
hammer03
05-28-2012, 21:18
Freedom Munitions is getting ready to release a commercial batch too, according to their facebook. They have pretty good prices on other things usually, might be something for you guys to watch (and if/when it gets under 30c a round, I'll probably build one)
This cartridge seems to be gaining popularity and momentum. I dont know why but it feels like this one is not a flash in the pan. Everybody who shoots it loves it.
This cartridge seems to be gaining popularity and momentum. I dont know why but it feels like this one is not a flash in the pan. Everybody who shoots it loves it.
It has been around for a very long time. It was and still is the 300 Whisper. JD Jones came up with the concept but was a jerk about the "Whisper" name.
The Blackout is pretty much nothing more than a long throated Whisper that got SAAMI approval.
It has been around for a very long time. It was and still is the 300 Whisper. JD Jones came up with the concept but was a jerk about the "Whisper" name.
The Blackout is pretty much nothing more than a long throated Whisper that got SAAMI approval.
So the Blackout is the way to go when getting into the 300 animal?
El Caballo Loco
05-29-2012, 20:16
I think the 300blk has gained momentum in it's current state because of a few reasons...
1. It is a great, versatile round that can be fired out of a common platform without a lot of hooplah needed to send the scunyon down range
2. "Did you say BLACK....OUT??? AAC....BLACK.....OUT....OMFGZORS THIS IS QUITE POSSIBLY THE COOLESTLY NAMED FUCKING ROUND IN THE HISTORY OF ROUNDS I MUST HAVE A RIFLE THAT BLACKS OUT MOTHER FUDGERS WITH MY BLACKED OUT VEST AND POUCHIES AND BLACK GUNS AND STUFFS BLACKOUT OR DIE MOTHER FUCKERS!!!" - random gear queer
Just wait until they come out with a ".408 shootyouinthefacewith300grainsofThorsfury". That one will be going places.
So the Blackout is the way to go when getting into the 300 animal?
Either work. I think the Whisper is more accurate, but the Blackouts different throat lets you run more pressure/higher velocity.
Spook (a member here) built my latest 300 Whisper upper. Incredibly accurate and with a 20 inch barrel I can get some impressive velocities. I dont need no stinkin blackout...
Thread hijack sort of- can either the whisper or the blackout be easily formed from .223 brass?
I assume these are running real fast twists?
Thread hijack sort of- can either the whisper or the blackout be easily formed from .223 brass?
Yup. Cut the 223 back to 1.355 or so and form a short neck.
I assume these are running real fast twists?
Most 300s use an 8 twist barrel to shoot the heavy subsonic ammo.
Here is a picture.
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac105/puebloshooter/Reloading%20Stuff/DSC03039.jpg
Sharpienads
05-30-2012, 13:31
Here's another comparison of 300BLK vs 5.56.
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/Sharpienads/300BLKvs556.jpg
The ONLY difference between a 5.56 rifle and a 300BLK is the barrel. Same bolt, same magazines, etc. As you can see in the above picture both rounds are loaded into PMAGs.
spqrzilla
05-30-2012, 16:32
The current Hodgdon 2012 Annual has some data for .300 Blackout. Thankfully, they are able to correctly describe what JD Jones has on the .300 Whisper, e.g., a trademark. Something even JD Jones can't get straight (writing in American Handgunner that he had "copyrighted the cartridge", which is nonsensical ).
mikeh1911
06-07-2012, 21:04
From what I understand and please correct me if I'm wrong, the Whisper can work in a 300 but be careful about shooting a 300 Blackout in the Whisper chamber. Like shooting 556 in a 223 chambered gun.
From what I understand and please correct me if I'm wrong, the Whisper can work in a 300 but be careful about shooting a 300 Blackout in the Whisper chamber. Like shooting 556 in a 223 chambered gun.
Exactly.
However,,, there is no standard version of the 300 Whisper. There is about a million different flavors.
Sharpienads
07-08-2012, 13:44
The chair is against the wall.
John has a long mustache.
Disregard...
Now I am all curious on what on you were going to say? [Coffee]
Sharpienads
07-11-2012, 11:14
Now I am all curious on what on you were going to say? [Coffee]
I thought the price for plinking ammo dropped, but after I posted realized it hadn't. So instead of looking like a fool, I just edited it to something mysterious, like "disregard".
I thought the price for plinking ammo dropped, but after I posted realized it hadn't. So instead of looking like a fool, I just edited it to something mysterious, like "disregard".
I just picked up 115gr UMC stuff for like $190 for 300 rounds. PNW is like $12 something for their range rounds.......
Not as cheap as 5.56 but cheaper than 6.8. Bet reloading you can cut the cost down even more, just don't have the time for it.
in stead of "disregard" you could have said: "bet the weather is HOT in Florida now." or something. [Coffee]
Sharpienads
07-13-2012, 21:59
I just picked up 115gr UMC stuff for like $190 for 300 rounds. PNW is like $12 something for their range rounds.......
Not as cheap as 5.56 but cheaper than 6.8. Bet reloading you can cut the cost down even more, just don't have the time for it.
in stead of "disregard" you could have said: "bet the weather is HOT in Florida now." or something. [Coffee]
Ok I changed it for you.
Ok I changed it for you.
See, perfect! [ROFL2]
......but was there a 300 blk rifle leaning against the chair and why is John not sitting in the chair fondling his new 300 BLK rifle?
Just bought a .300 Blackout upper for a good deal, and I bought 400 rds of 115gr UMC from cheaper than dirt. That should keep me in enough brass for awhile since I plan on reloading. Now I need to save for the can.
pistoleer44
08-10-2012, 15:48
I am considering buying a 300 Blackout upper to use for hunting. Nothing fancy, just a scope.
I have read a ton of post on this round but nothing concrete. Is it a great hunting round or not and will I be wasting my money.
Your thoughts, please.
:)[AR15][AR15][AR15][Stooge][Help]
Your thoughts, please.
http://www.ar-15.co/forums/showthread.php?t=28938
Hunting? Depends...could be excellent depending on range/animal size. Inside of 400 yds on Deer or Antelope size game the ballistics indicate it would be fantastic. Look at the Atlanta Arms 125gr Nosler ballistic tip load at about 2300 ft/sec. If you are going to hunt Antelope at 500-700 yds, I wouldn't use it. If you are going to hunt elk at more than 200 yds (with a 147 gr load for instance), I wouldn't use it. Run a ballistics program(plenty free online) on the desired bullet/velocity and you will see the useful hunting range and energy this round has. I plan to hunt deer with mine. Hogs? great round for them as well.
Think .30-.30 rifle...would you take it on your hunt?...if so 300 AAC blackout is a good choice.
pistoleer44
08-10-2012, 20:02
White Tail out to about 175 yards and hogs in my front yard. [Rant1][Bang][Bang][Bang]
White Tail out to about 175 yards and hogs in my front yard. [Rant1][Bang][Bang][Bang]
Then yes, the ballistics on .300 AAC blackout say HELL YA!!!
spencerhenry
08-11-2012, 06:05
deer out to 400? elk at 200?
possible? yes.
unethical? definitely!
i dont care what bullets you are running in a 300 aac, whisper or whatever you want to call it, it is NOT a big game round beyond about 100 yards. 125gr at 2300fps? that is ridiculous to use on any big game beyond 100 yards. it is impressive for the size of the case, but is NOT impressive in trajectory or in energy.
please do not take a 300 aac out after big game. odds are pretty good that the animal will not be taken cleanly. keep the range to handgun range and it could be ok.
I agree that I wouldn't use it hunting, I think both the 6.8spc2 and the 6.5 Grendel are better suited there if you want to hunt with an AR.
However a small whitetail out to 200-250 yards or so would be an ethical shot with 300blk IMHO. Same with pronghorn or hogs. Problem with pronghorn, they are oftena further shot than that.
An elk within 100 yds would be OK too.
But like I said, I would want more gun for any of those species.
pistoleer44
08-11-2012, 06:46
Thanks guys. After studying on the ballistics and velocities, I had just about come to the same conclusion.
The white tail we have here in S. TX. run about 150 for a good buck, some a little larger and more even smaller.
Guess I will stick with my 7mm-08.
[Flower]
Colorado Osprey
08-11-2012, 07:06
A few bolt action rifle makers like Savage had announced they would be chambering the 300 Blackout in new rifles. They have since released statement that they will now NOT be selling rifles in the 300 Blackout.
Although as designed as the 300 Whisper is ok as a defensive short-intermediate range cartridge with heavy sub-sonic bullets. They showed that the supersonic lighter bullets and heavy sub-sonic were less than ideal as a hunting cartridge.
spencerhenry
08-11-2012, 14:27
a 300aac with a 125gr at 2300fps is 600 to 700 fps SLOWER than a 270win with a 130gr. most people consider a 270 minimum for an elk. that puts the 300aac as marginal at best at ranges UNDER 100 yards.
also, most 125gr .308 bullets are NOT made for big game, but rather varmints. i dont know, maybe the lack of velocity and light construction could work, or maybe not.
bottom line is that a 300aac is NOT a big game round unless you are shooting at iron sighted handgun ranges.
jerrymrc
08-11-2012, 18:19
I have a PSA upper on the way. They are back in stock as of this post. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/review/product/list/id/2827/category/312/
Been looking at ammo options (reloading) and in looking around for Supersonic use many options are out there. I have some 110 V-Max bullets on the way but they are very pricey. I have about 400 125G spitzers that I bought as AK bullets but are .308. Also have .310 bullets and many have reported good results using them as is and not resizing them.
In poking around I also have 1000 of the M-160 108Gr frangibles that I bought for nothing. So some testing is in order.[Flower]
I have a PSA upper on the way. They are back in stock as of this post. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/review/product/list/id/2827/category/312/
Been looking at ammo options (reloading) and in looking around for Supersonic use many options are out there. I have some 110 V-Max bullets on the way but they are very pricey. I have about 400 125G spitzers that I bought as AK bullets but are .308. Also have .310 bullets and many have reported good results using them as is and not resizing them.
In poking around I also have 1000 of the M-160 108Gr frangibles that I bought for nothing. So some testing is in order.[Flower]
There was a guy on 300blktalk.com that was adamant that he and a lot of other reloaders there shot the 123 grain 7.62x39 surplus bullets. I thought that they were .310, and he said that is not a problem. You can get them for super cheap sometimes, so it looked like a good idea to me. I am thinking about it when I get my subsonic heavy and my hunting rounds built and finished. Then I will start working up a volume plinking round.
Colorado Osprey
09-16-2012, 20:38
Hunting? Depends...Look at the Atlanta Arms 125gr Nosler ballistic tip load at about 2300 ft/sec. ..... I plan to hunt deer with mine. ....
Think .30-.30 rifle...would you take it on your hunt?...if so 300 AAC blackout is a good choice.
Actually making them legal to hunt with in Colorado is very difficult. Making the 1000ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards is near impossible. (required to hunt in Colorado) I am not aware of any factory ammo that will make it legal to hunt with in Colorado .
Your own load listed above is NOT legal. Just over 1000ft/lbs at 50 yards, but shy of energy at 100 yards.
(page 12, top of the Colorado Hunting regs)
In fact I have looked at the Whisper, aka 300/221 aka ACC Blackout many times and it always falls short.
If you want an intermediate range AR the cheapest way to go to make it hunting legal is 7.62x39 or 6x45 (still hard to do in the 6x45 and 7.62x39). Next would be a 6.8SPC or 6.5 Grendel.
Rust_shackleford
09-17-2012, 09:47
6.5 Grendel would be a good choice.
Actually making them legal to hunt with in Colorado is very difficult. Making the 1000ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards is near impossible. (required to hunt in Colorado) I am not aware of any factory ammo that will make it legal to hunt with in Colorado .
Your own load listed above is NOT legal. Just over 1000ft/lbs at 50 yards, but shy of energy at 100 yards.
(page 12, top of the Colorado Hunting regs)
In fact I have looked at the Whisper, aka 300/221 aka ACC Blackout many times and it always falls short.
If you want an intermediate range AR the cheapest way to go to make it hunting legal is 7.62x39 or 6x45 (still hard to do in the 6x45 and 7.62x39). Next would be a 6.8SPC or 6.5 Grendel.
A. OP location shows Texas
B. My hunt will be in Nebraska
Thanks for the great info though.
can you buy factory 6.5 grendel ammo? If you had to choose between 6.8spc or 6.5 grendel for hunting which cartrige would you use?
I have a PSA upper on the way. They are back in stock as of this post. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/review/product/list/id/2827/category/312/
Been looking at ammo options (reloading) and in looking around for Supersonic use many options are out there. I have some 110 V-Max bullets on the way but they are very pricey. I have about 400 125G spitzers that I bought as AK bullets but are .308. Also have .310 bullets and many have reported good results using them as is and not resizing them.
In poking around I also have 1000 of the M-160 108Gr frangibles that I bought for nothing. So some testing is in order.[Flower]
Have you had an opportunity to shoot this upper? If so how is the accuracy?
jerrymrc
10-04-2012, 11:57
Have you had an opportunity to shoot this upper? If so how is the accuracy?
Monday. [Flower]
dwalker460
10-04-2012, 12:03
can you buy factory 6.5 grendel ammo? If you had to choose between 6.8spc or 6.5 grendel for hunting which cartrige would you use?
6.5 Grendel over 6.8 IMHO. The Grendel is a beast out to and past 500yrds in a short barrel carbine and out to 800yds in a longer barrel rifle.
My understanding is you can buy Grendel ammo but most Grendel guys are reloading. I believe it is boxed as 6.5x284 but would have to check to make sure they are the same.
mikeh1911
10-04-2012, 22:41
6.5 Grendel is 6.5 Grendel, definitely not 6.5 x 284
Woot just ordered a 300 blackout upper from psa! Cannot wait!
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/11379/s/psa-16-hammer-forged-300-aac-blackout-madness-upper-without-bcg-or-charging-handle/?utm_source=Stirke&utm_campaign=Constant+Contact&utm_medium=email
Monday. [Flower]
So how did she shoot?
jerrymrc
10-19-2012, 17:34
So how did she shoot?
http://www.ar-15.co/forums/showpost.php?p=667717&postcount=17
I need to borrow literally (3) rounds of 300 BLK ammo various grain. I will pay you for the rounds if need be.......
I have a brand new 300 BLK barrel that I am having BP Tactical check out the spacing and chamber for me and he needs some rounds as part of the test. I don't have any more 300 BLK and plan on selling off this barrel once I get the "it is good to go", so don't plan on stocking up on some and prefer not to have to buy a full box of ammo. I am in the Broomfield area but can meet somewhere around my neighborhood.
I don't think he is going to actually set them off so I could give them back to you.
[Coffee]
I just got my. 300 blog out upper. Still need to get a bcg....should I have the headspace checked before I run the rifle?
I just got my. 300 blog out upper. Still need to get a bcg....should I have the headspace checked before I run the rifle?
I have had several ARs I have put together including my existing ARs that I have never had the spacing checked by a gunsmith and have had no issues.
It is up to your comfort level. It can eliminate concern or worry it was not set properly to begin with. It does not hurt and not sure what the cost is but BP Tactical is fairly reasonable to make sure everything is 5 by 5.
My specific issue I sold the barrel once, after it was replaced under warranty from the company. That person who bought it had concerns and I bought it back out of honor and will have Bert inspect and fix if needed before I resell it rather that than deal with a month long wait again from the company under warranty.
So.................anyone in the north Denver Metro area / Broomfield have 3 rounds I can borrow for a week or so? [Coffee]
So.................anyone in the north Denver Metro area / Broomfield have 3 rounds I can borrow for a week or so?
I dont have any factory ammo. Sorry. If Bert wants to check with my reloads, I will bring some up Sunday. Just let me know.
I just got my. 300 blog out upper. Still need to get a bcg....should I have the headspace checked before I run the rifle?
You will be fine.
Yank out the BCG from your 5.56 upper and go to town.
I dont have any factory ammo. Sorry. If Bert wants to check with my reloads, I will bring some up Sunday. Just let me know.
Thanks for the super offer HOSER!
I actually realized my FFL guy (Triple 8) just down the street has a 300 BLK so I buzzed him today and he is going to let me snag 3 rounds.
Thanks Again! [Beer]
dwalker460
11-30-2012, 20:45
Still interested in that barrel when your ready to sell.... ;) Have a spiffy brand new 16" 5.56 barrel as trade fodder too...
Still interested in that barrel when your ready to sell.... ;) Have a spiffy brand new 16" 5.56 barrel as trade fodder too...
Yeah the second time around..................... [Flower]
I almost want to build another 300 BLK, but I just am not in the place to afford another caliber to stock up on. That and I look at the 300 BLK, then at the 308 and think why? I got something with a lot more punch at all meters............
[Coffee]
Not in a need at the moment for a 5.56 build out either, I got to conserve for a little.
Yeah I've got some you can use. I'm in Broomfield too so it should be easy to meet.
Running the 125 UMC out of an 8" rock creek barrel I'm getting a AV of 2078 fps unsuppressed. I want to build a 110gr Vmax load, if anyone has some info on that I would appreciate it. Thanks.
I just ordered a 300 BLK barrel that I want to put on a SBR. Figured since I reload 5.56 and .308 it was a perfect fit.
I want to build a 110gr Vmax load, if anyone has some info on that I would appreciate it.
Just start where you are right now and head up. Max loads for the 125 are a good start to mid point for the 110s.
Running the 125 UMC out of an 8" rock creek barrel I'm getting a AV of 2078 fps unsuppressed. I want to build a 110gr Vmax load, if anyone has some info on that I would appreciate it. Thanks.
The handloading section on www.300blacktalk.com has what you are looking for.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2
Thanks Hoser, thanks for the brass also! 20X11, thanks for the link. I think while everyone panics for a while I'm gonna lock myself in my loading room.
mikeh1911
03-09-2013, 23:03
I'm using 19.5 grains of H110, in Remington cases with Winchester SPR primers, and Hornady 110 grain Vmax bullets. Velocity is 2321 FPS out of my 12.5 inch AR pistol length gas system upper. Standard Deviation was 14 for this load. I found 20.0 grains of H110 was too hot so make sure you work this load for your gun.
Good luck.
coloradocad
03-18-2013, 21:49
I just got a 300 blackout, do you know where I can get some ammo for it. I am in Colorado Springs
XC700116
03-18-2013, 23:06
Elk bomb in Milliken has some 125 Gr OTM on hand for $32.99/box, that's the only place I know of that has ANY 300 AAC on hand.
Sharpienads
03-19-2013, 10:06
I just got a 300 blackout, do you know where I can get some ammo for it. I am in Colorado Springs
If you find some, let me know.
While the 300 is marketed as a mainstream caliber, it really isnt. Even in the best of times, finding ammo at the average gun shop isnt easy.
When you shoot odd-ball wildcats like it, reloading is a very good idea.
NGCSUGrad09
03-19-2013, 14:00
There's some Hornady stuff at Mile High Shooting in Erie.
208gr AMAX for $25.99 per 20 and 110gr VMAX for $21.99 per 20.
USAFGopherMike
03-21-2013, 03:45
I'm speculated my SBR build and was planning to go 7.62 AK for price but the .300 makes me want to reconsider. Aside from a single youtube video and a couple of older websites talking about bringing 7.62 knockdown power to the AR, I haven't seen any comparisons on penetration abilities. Anybody have any hard data on this? The availability of ammo is definitely an issue.
mikeh1911
03-23-2013, 16:36
Grand Prix Guns located just north of C 470 and east of Santa Fe had some Remington 300 Black Out ammo not too long ago. Not sure they have any left but you could call and ask.
buckshotbarlow
04-07-2013, 20:39
I'm speculated my SBR build and was planning to go 7.62 AK for price but the .300 makes me want to reconsider. Aside from a single youtube video and a couple of older websites talking about bringing 7.62 knockdown power to the AR, I haven't seen any comparisons on penetration abilities. Anybody have any hard data on this? The availability of ammo is definitely an issue.
Well first off, are you shooting it subsonic? If so, then it can't really be compared to the commie round. I run mine suppressed, 240gr SMK at 1050fps. If anyone wants, we could do a ballistics gel test, I have everything but the gel! Hoser, have u plugged any gel with yours?
buckshotbarlow
04-07-2013, 20:53
Here's some subsonic bullets for hunting, i'm gonna see if i can get a few...
http://www.outlawstatebullets.com/2.html
300blacktalk.com has pics of gel penetration...just search
Hoser, have u plugged any gel with yours? Nope. I have no interest of shooting critters with subs. I would rather smack them with a 130gn 6.5 bullet going the speed of heat.
Ed@DarkStorm
04-15-2013, 06:50
Elk bomb in Milliken has some 125 Gr OTM on hand for $32.99/box, that's the only place I know of that has ANY 300 AAC on hand.
We see it trickle in here and there here in NY. I got some 223 varmit and some 458 SOCOM in last week. We have a ton of ammo, including 300 blackout on order, just very slow to show up.
Anyone have any load data for 300 Blackout using BLC-2? Thank you.
Anyone have any load data for 300 Blackout using BLC-2? Thank you.
BLC-2 is NOT a suitable powder for 300 Blackout...in fact, none of the powders for .223/5.56 are suitable for 300 Blackout. You need to look at powders like H110, Win 296, Lil Gun, A1680, VV N110.
bellavite1
08-15-2013, 18:07
As I suspect many of us, I am intrigued at the idea of shooting a 30 cal bullet out of an AR.
I do have a few questions, however, that somebody hopefully can answer:
I do realize that a 300 BLK is not a 308, but what is the feasability of using it as a medium range cartridge (say 500yds)?
What kind of accuracy can be expected in this application?
I can tipically hold 1/3 MOA a 100 yds with my 308, sometimes out to 300 yds.
Using a medium weight bullet, say around 150gr, what kind of velocity can be expected from a 20" barrel?
Does a 20" barrel in this caliber even exist?
Yes, I know it is a round supposed to be for CQB, but it would be nice to be able to convert my 20" .556 and have a lightweight med range precision weapon...
Any imput?
As I suspect many of us, I am intrigued at the idea of shooting a 30 cal bullet out of an AR.
I do have a few questions, however, that somebody hopefully can answer:
I do realize that a 300 BLK is not a 308, but what is the feasability of using it as a medium range cartridge (say 500yds)?
What kind of accuracy can be expected in this application?
I can tipically hold 1/3 MOA a 100 yds with my 308, sometimes out to 300 yds.
Using a medium weight bullet, say around 150gr, what kind of velocity can be expected from a 20" barrel?
Does a 20" barrel in this caliber even exist?
Yes, I know it is a round supposed to be for CQB, but it would be nice to be able to convert my 20" .556 and have a lightweight med range precision weapon...
Any imput?
1. Max effective range according to US Gov is 440 yds...can shoot further, but bullet trajectory is a BITCH.
2. Very accurate round...but accuracy will suffer some due to shorter barrel lengths
3. Longest barrel I have seen/heard of is 16"...custom could go longer, but generally not recommended.
4. You can push 125 gr bullet to around 2300 fps...130 gr to around 2200 fps..150 gr to near 2100 fps from a 16 inch barrel...due to powders used for this round a longer barrel isn't going to give much more velocity.
5. Converting a 20" can be done, but you probably will need to swap in a carbine buffer, spring, and spacer (if you have a standard rifle tube on you lower)
XC700116
08-15-2013, 22:30
I built mine with an 18" barrel and it works pretty damn well. But since I have it set up with only a red dot on it right now, I wouldn't even bother to try 500. It's quite accurate, easily sub MOA, but not a long range round because of the velocity.
Here's the barrel I used http://www.precisionreflex.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=799636&CAT=4293 but it's been on BO for months now.
nisils14
08-15-2013, 23:04
This video pretty much sums it up about 300blk. 300blk in super sonic is just about completely burned at about 16". Anything longer than that would only net minimal velocity/energy gains and more weight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik
So are some of these rounds like 300 blk/whisper and .458 being designed around a 16" barrel then? I've seen a bolt gun for 300 blk that I believe was 22"(ish), but all AR platforms for all those rounds are 16" or shorter and they have huge diminishing returns on velocity after 16".
As I suspect many of us, I am intrigued at the idea of shooting a 30 cal bullet out of an AR.
I do have a few questions, however, that somebody hopefully can answer:
I do realize that a 300 BLK is not a 308, but what is the feasability of using it as a medium range cartridge (say 500yds)?
What kind of accuracy can be expected in this application?
I can tipically hold 1/3 MOA a 100 yds with my 308, sometimes out to 300 yds.
Using a medium weight bullet, say around 150gr, what kind of velocity can be expected from a 20" barrel?
Does a 20" barrel in this caliber even exist?
Yes, I know it is a round supposed to be for CQB, but it would be nice to be able to convert my 20" .556 and have a lightweight med range precision weapon...
Any imput?
Here is a link to some data posted by the Lead Engineer for the 300 BLK project for AAC...
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=78987
Nope. I have no interest of shooting critters with subs. I would rather smack them with a 130gn 6.5 bullet going the speed of heat.
creedmore or grendel
i am intrigued by the 300 blackout but how is it really different from 7.62x39 besides mag and bolt interchangeability?
i am intrigued by the 300 blackout but how is it really different from 7.62x39 besides mag and bolt interchangeability?
Better ballistics past 100yds due to higher BC projectiles. Knowing you can use standard 5.56 PMAGS is a huge plus for reliable feeding. If someone wants to shoot 7.62x39, get an AK.
from anyone who loads it, how cheaply can it be reloaded? 308 projectiles generally aren't cheap but can you get it down to 0.30 cents a round?
from anyone who loads it, how cheaply can it be reloaded? 308 projectiles generally aren't cheap but can you get it down to 0.30 cents a round?
No...I doubt .30.... unless you cast your own bullets. 45 cents maybe for regular rounds.
I've never really tried to add it up. I know that my Barnes 110gr TAC TX projectiles alone cost me $.70 per bullet.
I'd imagine 147g bi metal could be close to $.30/rd
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
jerrymrc
09-17-2013, 18:28
No
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
I think you can get close. If you have the brass $200 for bullets, $35 for primers and about $60 in powder if you buy in jugs. This is just going off of the prices I have seen and what I have been paying.
Many guys got in on the AK .310 pulls and have had good results and made loading closer to $200 per K. Just what I have seen.[Flower]
Personally, I think I'd have a heart attack thinking about how much $ it costs me every pull of the trigger. I enjoy my time reloading knowing that it's the best ammo for my rifle and application. I can't put a price on that.
Personally, I think I'd have a heart attack thinking about how much $ it costs me every pull of the trigger. I enjoy my time reloading knowing that it's the best ammo for my rifle and application. I can't put a price on that.
depending on your occupation, marital status, and general importance you put into shooting, the cost still matters. yes, i would rather reload a good round for $0.40 a round than buy a crappy one for $0.30 a round, but i also don't want to reload for $1.00 a round when a reasonable one can be bought at $0.50 a round. so, to most, the cost does matter somewhat, even if it isn't the be all end all. i have considered switching to this caliber, has some intriguing advantages, but i also don't want to get into it finding out its immensely expensive. really if you can get a round down to the 30-40 cents per round range reloaded then it at least beats manufactured 223, which makes such a switch more financially understandable.
depending on your occupation, marital status, and general importance you put into shooting, the cost still matters. yes, i would rather reload a good round for $0.40 a round than buy a crappy one for $0.30 a round, but i also don't want to reload for $1.00 a round when a reasonable one can be bought at $0.50 a round. so, to most, the cost does matter somewhat, even if it isn't the be all end all. i have considered switching to this caliber, has some intriguing advantages, but i also don't want to get into it finding out its immensely expensive. really if you can get a round down to the 30-40 cents per round range reloaded then it at least beats manufactured 223, which makes such a switch more financially understandable.
Ok...here is the math based on my most recent purchases for powder, primers, projectiles...this is a highly accurate load in my 300BLKs...supersonic 125 gr Speer TNT HP, rem 7 1/2 primers, Lil gun powder...
powder = 7.5 cents per round ($25/lb ...7000 gr/lb...18.2 gr per round)
Primers = 2.5 cents per round ($25/1000)
Projectiles = 21 cents per round (Midway had 500 for 101.99 + shipping less 10% coupon code)
So...my initial thought was wrong... there we have 31 cents per round...if you already have the brass. I'm going to the range this weekend and blowing off a few hundred. WOOOHOOO!!!!
Damn! Where'd you find primers for $25? Right now and probably in the foreseeable short term future, reloading is the only way to go. So far I've only found Remington factory ammo at LGS and it was only a few boxes. $32/20 of Remington 125gr matchking and $23/20 220gr subsonic.
Damn! Where'd you find primers for $25? Right now and probably in the foreseeable short term future, reloading is the only way to go. So far I've only found Remington factory ammo at LGS and it was only a few boxes. $32/20 of Remington 125gr matchking and $23/20 220gr subsonic.
My gun range has been consistently having them in stock...July, I picked up a thousand for $25. Planning on heading out his weekend...I'll see if they still have them. They do limit quantities so all members have access to some. Sometimes a 1k limit...sometimes a 500 limit. I'll check their current price as well. Primers are one thing I haven't run low on. They have also been stocking H110 and Lil Gun powders which I have been consistently picking up as well.
jerrymrc
09-20-2013, 15:03
Damn! Where'd you find primers for $25? Right now and probably in the foreseeable short term future, reloading is the only way to go. So far I've only found Remington factory ammo at LGS and it was only a few boxes. $32/20 of Remington 125gr matchking and $23/20 220gr subsonic.
I got primers at Cabelas for $30 two days ago. Reloading opens up many other calibers that one would never think of having to buy ammo. That is why I like 38 super over 9mm. Once you have the brass loading is only 1.5-2gr more powder and you have a wider range to play with.[Flower]
So I got an email for a .300 HBAR barrel, 16" and 1:7 twist for $109. Would it be worth it to grab?
So I got an email for a .300 HBAR barrel, 16" and 1:7 twist for $109. Would it be worth it to grab?
Yes
So I got an email for a .300 HBAR barrel, 16" and 1:7 twist for $109. Would it be worth it to grab?
Depends...is it from Alpha Shooting Sports? There have been chamber issues reported with those. Their 5.56 barrels are good to go, but I have seen more than a few posts regarding their .300 BLK chambers.
Depends...is it from Alpha Shooting Sports? There have been chamber issues reported with those. Their 5.56 barrels are good to go, but I have seen more than a few posts regarding their .300 BLK chambers.
Says ESS Barrels as the manufacturer.
osok-308
10-25-2013, 11:18
Not trying to hijack the thread, but how does the .300 blk compare to 6.8 for HUNTING purposes? I'm not talking ballistics past 300 yards, because I really won't be taking shots past that. How is ammo availability for hunting for both?
thvigil11
10-25-2013, 11:27
So I got an email for a .300 HBAR barrel, 16" and 1:7 twist for $109. Would it be worth it to grab?
Who's giving this deal?
XC700116
10-25-2013, 17:55
For that I'd probably lean toward the 6.8 as 300 BLK if not loaded pretty hot doesn't have the snoot to make the legality requirements for CO. That said, it can be done. 125 Nosler BT's are probably the best bet for a good hunting bullet.
osok-308
10-25-2013, 18:10
For that I'd probably lean toward the 6.8 as 300 BLK if not loaded pretty hot doesn't have the snoot to make the legality requirements for CO. That said, it can be done. 125 Nosler BT's are probably the best bet for a good hunting bullet.
Thanks, that's good to know
RonMexico
10-28-2013, 19:18
For that I'd probably lean toward the 6.8 as 300 BLK if not loaded pretty hot doesn't have the snoot to make the legality requirements for CO. That said, it can be done. 125 Nosler BT's are probably the best bet for a good hunting bullet.
Not true. Light stuff like 115gr or heavy slow 220gr stuff doesn't but I was going to takeout 147gr and 150gr stuff this year. Both are factory listed at 1200+ I think in my ballistic cal I had a not too "hot" load at 1400.
Who's giving this deal?
ShadowOps sent me an email for it since I've bought lowers from them.
XC700116
10-28-2013, 23:00
3566935669
Not true. Light stuff like 115gr or heavy slow 220gr stuff doesn't but I was going to takeout 147gr and 150gr stuff this year. Both are factory listed at 1200+ I think in my ballistic cal I had a not too "hot" load at 1400.
What kind of 147 or 150 grain bullets are you finding that will expand approriately to consistently and ethically take game at those speeds? IMO there's more important things to considder on hunting bullets than if it delivers 1K@100 Not to mention to hit that 1400 ft/lb mark with a 150 it'd have to have a muzzle velocity of 2250 and that is 200 fps faster than any published data I've seen for 300blk
Here's a quick ballistics chart (link above) from Hornady's online calculator of a 150 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2012 which is a max load of 5744 (one of the powders that produces the highest speed out of 300 BLK) While it does produce 1100 ft lbs of energy at 100 yds that meets the bare minimum requirement for CO law for (quoted below). Then when you take into consideration it's only moving at 1800 fps at 100 yds and the expansion question comes into play. 1800 fps is the minimum speed required for decent expansion on Nosler Ballistic tips which is a VERY fast expanding hunting bullet. Point being 100 yds is absolute maximum range for 300 blk with 150's hence my reccomendation for the 125 if you're going that route. Also all said and done, there's actually factory loaded 6.8SPC hunting ammo available. That for the specific purpose of hunting is a far better choice.
Basically to my first asserted point, 300 blk has to be loaded pretty hot to meet the requirement, ie my example is the MAX load for 150's with a powder that produces some of the fastest moving 300 blk loads barely meeting the requirements. So I ask what part of my statement wasn't true???? I have a 300 blk and love it for what it is and what I built it for, but I'm not taking it big game hunting anywhere that I may have to shoot more than 100 yards either. I have much more appropriate firearms for that. If I was building up a rifle and deciding between 300 blk and 6.8 SPC with hunting in mind, 6.8 all day every day, no doubt about it. The round simply has more velocity and energy at short to medium hunting ranges than 300 blk.
That said I have a round of hunting loads in the 125 BT's and it will be with me when I go back to MN for whitetails next weekend, along with other rifles. The load is HOT and moving at just under 2400 and delivers about 1300 ft/lbs @100 yds and still moving over 2100 fps, but the brass lasts about 2 loadings before th primer pocket is loose too.
Rifles using center fire cartridges of .24 caliber or larger, having expanding bullets of at least seventy (70) grains in weight, except for elk and moose where the minimum bullet weight is eighty-five (85) grains, and with a rated impact energy one hundred (100) yards from the muzzle of at least one thousand (1000) foot pounds as determined by the manufacturer's rating providing that any semiautomatic rifle used shall not hold more than six (6) rounds in the magazine and chamber combined.
I pretty much have put the .300 Blk in the same boat as 7.62x39, it's a good defense round best used against people in a short to medium range. If I was going for an AR platform for hunting I'd go with a long barreled 6.8 SPC or .308 AR-10. Or now that I have my .458 upper I can slam some hogs with a big bore round. I am thinking if I jump into the .300 world I'd get it in my first NFA items like a SBR and a can for it to shoot heavy slow movers.
XC700116
10-29-2013, 20:06
I pretty much have put the .300 Blk in the same boat as 7.62x39, it's a good defense round best used against people in a short to medium range. If I was going for an AR platform for hunting I'd go with a long barreled 6.8 SPC or .308 AR-10. Or now that I have my .458 upper I can slam some hogs with a big bore round. I am thinking if I jump into the .300 world I'd get it in my first NFA items like a SBR and a can for it to shoot heavy slow movers.
That is the exact application where the 300 blk REALLY shines. Short range, short barrels, and quiet. The efficiency of the cartridge in a short barrel makes it SBR magic.
heres an interesting question. I have a remington 700 i shoot fairly long ranges with and have used 168 bthp from nosler and 178 gr amax. the 168 bthp are actually fairly cheap in bulk. does anyone know if you can make the 168's subsonic in 300 blackout? it would be nice to have one bullet size to use. i could use it for both my 700 in 308 and my ar in 300. i know 178 amax can be made subsonic and some people have had pretty good results with them. couldn't find any info on 168's.
I have loaded the 168 and 175 grainers. Not really any published data so I made my own up. Definitely seemed like they were subsonic but I never chronographed them.
I have loaded the 168 and 175 grainers. Not really any published data so I made my own up. Definitely seemed like they were subsonic but I never chronographed them.
were you trying to load subsonic or just regular rounds?
were you trying to load subsonic or just regular rounds?
Lol. Not quite sure. Mostly just wanted something that was accurate and would cycle reliably. I used data for lighter and heavier bullets and basically "filled in the blanks" for the missing data for the mid-weight bullets.
XC700116
10-31-2013, 22:59
You'd definitely be able to load them subsonic, but weather or not they'd cycle reliably is the question.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.