View Full Version : Best combat shotgun
I bet this is overdone. I am wondering about all your opinions on what you consider the best tactical/combat shotgun is. Across the board. Semi auto, pump, tube capacity etc. Home defense, combat, collection value? Just curious.
Looked at a benelli M4 but heard that is was plagued with problems. Looked as the SPAS but that thing is a mess to opperate.
What are your thoughts?
If you buy semi-auto, go for gas operated. Inertia is just not reliable enough for different shooting positions etc.
I carried both SPAS-12 and SPAS-15 on duty years ago. I do not think there is something really strange operating things with those. They were very reliable and super easy to shoot fast.
SPAS-15 we did not do anything else with but dragged and shot. They were like AK´s, except many of them shot more accurately with slugs than typical AK with ball ammo :)
Early SPAS-12 we needed to change some part (buffer or something like that) after 5-6000 rounds but never ones went at least 20k without any problems .
I do not like folding stocks, however. Our guns had detachable wooden stock or telestocks, I always carried with detachable stock either attached or removed.
If given the option to pick only one shotgun, I'd take the 870.
Although I don't own one, I really want the Moss 590!!
ChunkyMonkey
10-24-2010, 02:57
I have both 590 and 870. I am looking at saiga 12... and now benelli m2 thanks to Jim... I dont know man - semi auto shotty is just so not traditional.
henpecked
10-24-2010, 06:38
beretta 1201FP
light weight
rifle sights or ghost rings
prefers grease over oil
Still find one for 500.00
BPTactical
10-24-2010, 10:32
I love my 590-A1. 100% reliability and you can mod it to just about any thing you want. It is the "under the bed" item.
I had a FNH SLP with the 22" barrel and it is an awesome shotgun as well. Very smooth and quick.
I prefer a Mossberg over an 870 for 2 reasons:
1- Ejector is an easier repair on the Mossy.
2- Position of the action release.
I had played around a bit with a SPAS because I was thinking of buying one. Seemed really heavy and boxy feeling.
M-4 is a nice shotty but is it woth what you pay for? I dont think so when you compare it to the SLP or 930.
pickenup
10-24-2010, 12:09
Have had 590, 870, 1100, 1187, and a ton of others. Looked at the SPAS, didn't like the feel (or the reports I read about them) Almost got a Benelli, but ended up with a Saiga. I love the mag fed shotgun for quick reloads, and there is just something about having a 20 round drum hanging on a 12 ga. Talk about being able to sweep the streets. Along with the fact that you can customize it a LOT of different ways.
gcrookston
10-24-2010, 12:52
I've owned both the Benelli M1S90 and FN SLP. I prefer the FN primarily due to the sites, ease of shooting and over-all balance over the Benelli. But either of these would be my choice, are my choice.
I really like the 870's. Very rugged and extremely reliable. Mine is a police trade in that is pretty much stock. The barrel had been cut down to 20" and the bead re-attached. I think it was made in the 70's. Not sure when they stopped doing the chrome bolt.
bellavite1
10-24-2010, 18:02
Benelli M2.
You must use loads over 1oz (1 1/8 works best for me, we are talking about combat shotguns-right?) but is super reliable and MG fast.
I can unload an 8 rnds mag in about 2 secs.
No gas rings getting worn, no gas ports getting dirty.
Surefire light forend available, as good as it gets.
Daniel_187
10-25-2010, 12:40
Love the Remmy 870. Had a Benelli M2 but could not get any freaking part for it and when I could find them they cost a butt load of money(am kinda off things made it Italy). Kinda Like the new Mossberg 930's but want to see what kind of abuse they can take before getting one
I am wondering about all your opinions on what you consider the best tactical/combat shotgun is. Across the board. Semi auto, pump, tube capacity etc. Home defense, combat, collection value? What are your thoughts?
My thoughts and my opinion:
Action: For myself, pump is preferred. I do have a semi for clays and such but a pump would suit me better in defensive situations. I say pump because they are traditionally better work horses and can take major abuse. However, firearms design is coming along to where semi-autos are just as strong. Pumps seem to me to be faster/easier to clear/diagnose, etc during a malfunction.
Tube capacity: I think most standard "defensive" pump shotguns are 6-9 rounds while most semi-autos are 4-6. However, there are always aftermarket parts to deal with that.
Mods: The big two (Rem 870 and Moss 500) have the most accessories out there including lights/forends/stocks/shell holders/etc. Some of the more fashionable (insert own vocabulary) shotguns are harder to find parts for as mentioned.
jerrymrc
10-25-2010, 19:15
Had an 870 police but replaced it with a 590. Also have a Siaga that I love. The wife has a win 1300? auto in 20ga that she likes for clays.
I did not grow up with shotguns. Dad had an old break open that we used for Pheasants. I have done lots of drills with the pumps but still suck at them. That is why my Siaga will never go anywhere. :) And if you take the Siaga to shoot clays be prepared for the looks. ;)
My opinion for best tactical/combat shotgun is the one that is being used in combat now....the 870. Less moving parts (because we all know how Murphy likes to show up at inoppertune times), simple operation, dozens of varients, been around 60 years, and reliable. It's the AR/AK of shotguns. Are the better suited models for various applications? Of course. But best all around shoutgun for TACTICAL/COMBAT use...Rem 870 hands down.
Jumped in and got a Benelli M4. Shot it and I just love it. Thanks for all your input. I will see how it works,
SA Friday
10-29-2010, 12:15
870. Put a cheap 21" rifle sighted slug barrel on it. Put a Nordic tube extension on it (file out the retention bump on the inside of the top of the tube, it's easy). Done. Anything else is whatever you want it to have. Parts are cheap. Working on it is easy. It will run. Now go practice with it.
Troublco
11-01-2010, 14:51
I like my 590. Parts and accessories are readily available, they're reliable, and they're common.
agent-smith
11-04-2010, 23:13
Jumped in and got a Benelli M4. Shot it and I just love it. Thanks for all your input. I will see how it works,
You won't regret it.
Love mine.
Jumpstart
11-16-2010, 22:41
870
carnplanenut
11-22-2010, 09:32
I have a Mossber 500 Pursuader and a 930 SPX, both are awesome. For overall 100% reliability, pump is the way to go.
CO-Exprs
11-25-2010, 23:22
Competition has a tendency to weed out the best from the rest. This is all personal opinion of course, but I tried all of the major brands and models in search of a tactical shotgun I could use for home defense and for 3G. I ran Benellis, Remingtons, Mossbergs and Winchesters. My selection considered reliabilibty, shootability, versatility, mag capacity, equipment, reloadability and cost. For semi-auto, I settled on the FN-SLP MK1. 22" choked barrel, iron sights, scope rail, solid construction, easy to reload, easy on recoil, 8rd mag, less parts than an 1100 and just as reliable as an M2. The extra weight makes follow up shots really quick. I have about 3k rounds through my SLP and have found it to be very reliable, so long as you clean the piston and mag tube after you shoot it. It's easy to break down and clean too. For Pump, I used to feel 870s were king of the pump action heap, but the Mossberg 590 spx is the new king of the pump action heap. The action is smooth, simple and solidly built. 8rd magazine, iron sights and easy reloading make this shotty meaner than a caged wolverine. A friend of mine runs his very successfully in 3G iron man division. I believe these two choices to represent the pinnacle of tactical shotgun value and execution in design and function.
If I had to choose between my 870's, 1187 Police, or Saiga 12's it would be the Saiga 12's hands down.
They are just as reliable as a pump under normal use (I find that about 500 rounds of shit target ammo without cleaning is where you will start to see some misfeeds etc). Keep in mind, this is on the "high power" gas setting shooting the lightest loads possible! With better ammo and full power loads (buckshot, slugs etc) you could probably do 750-1000 before it starts giving you problems. Reloading ANY tube-fed takes way too long to be a "great" tactical gun IMO. You really can't beat 20 rounds in a drum, or 10-12 rounds in a stick mag with lightning fast reloads.
Love the 1187, and it definitely has less felt recoil than the Saigas, but once again, reloading a tube-fed shotgun is for the birds.
My old roommate has a Benelli (super 90?) and it is nice, but kicks like a mule in comparison. Again, reloading tubes sucks.
Again, reloading tubes sucks.
You need to practice it more. It isnt hard or slow.
DeusExMachina
11-30-2010, 08:54
You need to practice it more. It isnt hard or slow.
Its pretty difficult to make the argument that reloading one round at a time is going to be as quick as a 10 or even 5-round magazine change. No matter how fast you are.
The advantage is administrative reloads are fast and easy. God forbid you need to use all 8 rounds in a tube. Emergency reloads, you're kind of screwed and will want to switch to sidearm until the threat is over.
You wont be topping off the rounds in your Saiga magazines while behind cover in a firefight, that's for sure.
And 99.9% of us will never see combat, much less combat with a shotgun...
It's like the trany debate: Manual vs. Auto - some folks could use the extra help.
Its pretty difficult to make the argument that reloading one round at a time is going to be as quick as a 10 or even 5-round magazine change. No matter how fast you are.
The advantage is administrative reloads are fast and easy. God forbid you need to use all 8 rounds in a tube. Emergency reloads, you're kind of screwed and will want to switch to sidearm until the threat is over.
You wont be topping off the rounds in your Saiga magazines while behind cover in a firefight, that's for sure.
And 99.9% of us will never see combat, much less combat with a shotgun...
Rgr what Hoser said... Isn't three gun more about strategic planning on how to accomplish the stage? I could see a tube fed having a great advantage in most situations when needing to "top off" a round or two instead of trying to fill a mag and reinsert, etc...
But, just my know nothing two cents. Can I have change please?
DeusExMachina
11-30-2010, 09:26
But isn't that the point of the thread? It's about combat shotguns...
Are you going to argue that the best combat shotgun is a side by side?
Rgr what Hoser said... Isn't three gun more about strategic planning on how to accomplish the stage?
3-gun is not "Combat." It is a game. The targets dont shoot back. That is why this thread makes me laugh.
If you want to know what shotgun can hold up for lots of fast shooting like in 3-gun or skeet/trap/SC, I can chime in.
I know of only a handful of people on this site that have spent time in a war zone. And maybe one or two of them might have carried a shotgun. Every time I have been deployed, all I had was a simple M9 and I didnt get to shoot it, not even once. And that is fine with me.
Are you going to argue that the best combat shotgun is a side by side?
Only if it's a 4-bore! HAHAHAHAHA! [Beer]
3-gun is not "Combat." It is a game. The targets dont shoot back. That is why this thread makes me laugh.
If you want to know what shotgun can hold up for lots of fast shooting like in 3-gun or skeet/trap/SC, I can chime in.
I know of only a handful of people on this site that have spent time in a war zone. And maybe one or two of them might have carried a shotgun. Every time I have been deployed, all I had was a simple M9 and I didnt get to shoot it, not even once. And that is fine with me.
This.
A shotgun has it's place, so if you can nail your target with one chances are a follow up shot won't be too critical. If there are waves of em comin your way even the most "combat" ready shotty won't save your ass so kiss it goodbye.
This.
A shotgun has it's place, so if you can nail your target with one chances are a follow up shot won't be too critical. If there are waves of em comin your way even the most "combat" ready shotty won't save your ass so kiss it goodbye.
The combat shotgun is not for "waves of 'em." It's a multi purpose CQB tool. It is used to breaching, deploying chemical/less lethal munitions, and for close target engagement. Anyone using a shotgun for holding back the hordes, is either intentionally dying a glorious death or out of other reasonable options. Some of the critera suggested for a "combat" shotgun are misguided and unrealistic. As an instructor and more importantly, someone who has used a shotgun in combat, let me suggest more appropriate critera and why:
1) Reliability: the firearm must not only work everytime, but for everyone, and with various types of ammunition. If the gun won't run, it's useless and extra weight. Pumps are preferred as there is less moving parts to get dirt in, less things that can potentially break (less parts for the armorer to stock), and less weight. Anyone should be able to pick it up and utilize it effectively, to include reloading. Transitioning from breaching rounds to lethal rounds (although targets can be neutralized with breaching rounds!) without tubes or magazines is often the simplest method for MOST shooters, especially under duress.
2) Durability: It has to be able to get to the fight to be an effiective tool. If it cannot handle being tossed around a vehicle, dropped in dirt/mud/snow/blood, strapped to your kit while running/jumping/climbing, exposure to small blasts from NFDD's/grenades/IED, and just getting beat around in general...then it is a waste of space and effort. I've seen the charging handles of auto shotguns broken off, stocks shattered, and barrels bent. IT SHOULD STILL WORK! (I didn't say be a tackdriver, but function) If not, get rid of it.
3) Availability: if you don't have it ready, it's not a tool, it's a paperweight. As mentioned before, a combat shotgun is a multi purpose tool. If you have to wait for the guy to get into position with a 28" barrel...too late. If it costs too much and your commander is not willing or able to spend that much for them, it's useless. If you have to figure out how to work it because you did not get sufficient time and recources to train with it (not just the shooter, the entire team/unit), it's useless. Tools only work when there is need and oppertunity. If the oppertunity passes by, it's not an effective tool.
I specifically left out some of the critera mentioned before and here is why. Benefits like accuracy, recoil management, and "faster follow on shots" are more functions of the operator, and less of the equipment. I consider them benefits because they are things that are better improved upon by training, not gear. Having a peice of equipment that makes them easier are benefits, not necessities. Training is a necessity. Training with less beneficial equipment make the use of the cool stuff that much easier. I'm not suggesting that we need to work with single shot rifles for practice, however training with a racegun setup for concealed carry, or combat for that matter, can be counter productive.
"In the end, it is not about the hardware, it's about the "software". Amateurs talk about hardware (equipment), professionals talk about software (training and mental readiness)" Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. On Combat
As mentioned before, this thread is about a combat shotgun. While there are as many options as there are members here, this is a very specific use. There are much better choices for 3 gun, home defense, clays, etc... When looking for a combat shotguh, I suggest using the critera above before anything else.
Stay safe...
I appreciate the realism that Hoser and Coloccw bring to this thread. I've personally never experienced combat, and very likely never will. With that point made several times now, what is the best shotgun for a first date? I think people are more likely to be put into that position. ;)
what is the best shotgun for a first date? ;)
this one
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae207/coloccw/pinky-2_50.jpg
this one
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae207/coloccw/pinky-2_50.jpg
Winner! HAHA.
Winner indeed. I got all the info I needed. Thanks guys!
You need to practice it more. It isnt hard or slow.
Hard no, slow yes. I've been shooting 870's for a long damn time, and you're right, its not difficult at all.
If you can reload 10 rounds in under a second, I give you mad props. [Tooth]
If you can reload 10 rounds in under a second, I give you mad props. [Tooth]
Right back at you.
If you can reload a Siaga in 1.0 seconds or less I will give you mad props.
DeusExMachina
11-30-2010, 15:20
What's the best shotgun for a bris?
What's the best shotgun for a bris?
Here's the full package....
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae207/coloccw/BruceCampbellArmyofDarknessC10101910.jpg
Here's the full package....
Nice boomstick.
Asmodiar
11-30-2010, 23:20
Had an 870 but it was more of a bird gun, gave it to my brother when I left Missouri - and then bought this guy when my daughter was born... I have a lot more fun shooting this than the 870
Here's mine... 12 gauge Benelli Nova w/ mag extender so it's 7+1 if using the 2 3/4... but can shoot the 3.5 that the 870 couldn't.
Shirt Added to the picture for the lols.
With all the talk of pump vs. semi, why no mentions for the Benelli M3? If I could get my hands on one that was under $1000, I would.
With all the talk of pump vs. semi, why no mentions for the Benelli M3? If I could get my hands on one that was under $1000, I would.
I got to handle one... it was really picky on loads.... so maybe that's why? However, some elements of the USMC use it so... I dunno...
The combat shotgun is not for "waves of 'em."
I take it you didn't pick up on the sarcasm there. The average Joe looking for suggestions for the best combat shotty is a lot like Steven Hawking looking for opinions on the best running shoes...why?
With all the talk of pump vs. semi, why no mentions for the Benelli M3? If I could get my hands on one that was under $1000, I would.
The M3 is kinda heavy. I had one for a long time, but ended up with an M1 and am much happier.
The M3 has a small market and they dont import that many of them.
I take it you didn't pick up on the sarcasm there. The average Joe looking for suggestions for the best combat shotty is a lot like Steven Hawking looking for opinions on the best running shoes...why?
I caught it. Just clarifying in case someone else thought you could hold back a mongolian horde with a shotgun and 1 box of shells.....
I caught it. Just clarifying in case someone else thought you could hold back a mongolian horde with a shotgun and 1 box of shells.....
Well, if you run out of shells, you can buttstroke 'em! HAHHA. [Beer]
Asmodiar
12-01-2010, 13:38
The average Joe looking for suggestions for the best combat shotty is a lot like Steven Hawking looking for opinions on the best running shoes...why?
I'm pretty sure most people that ask this question are only buying a shotgun for one reason - Zombie Apocalypse Survival.
...I know that's why I got mine.
DeusExMachina
12-01-2010, 14:16
http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/129205800868842105.png
Blue section is WAY to big for 99% of the population.... Most people can't tell you why water becomes ice when it's frozen!!!
That graph is hilarious though!! HAHAH +1
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