View Full Version : Bobby Wallace's RV Set Ablaze
Birddog1911
10-25-2010, 08:27
Heard Peter Boyles talking about it this morning. Seems the poor old guy was attacked in retaliation for shooting the illegal back in Feb. Thankfully, it was just his RV, and not his home that was set on fire. Any Denver folks have further info?
If I'm behind on the times on this story, sorry. Been working swings and mids lately, and haven't kept up here very well.
Article posted in the Hometown forum over on arfcom.
Pancho Villa
10-25-2010, 09:39
I am curious as to how you establish that the fire was "in retaliation" to shooting an illegal (I assume it was justified self defense.)
Who would retaliate for that? Having worked among, with, and hired illegals aplenty in my time, I don't see much group identity among them.
What are the circumstances surrounding this, I guess is my question.
I am curious as to how you establish that the fire was "in retaliation" to shooting an illegal (I assume it was justified self defense.)
Who would retaliate for that? Having worked among, with, and hired illegals aplenty in my time, I don't see much group identity among them.
What are the circumstances surrounding this, I guess is my question.
Knowingly?....
Pancho Villa
10-25-2010, 09:47
Day labor. I don't check immigration status. I assume at least some of them were illegal, and I don't care.
Stealing jobs from Americans etc, I know. Cry more.
80 year-old guy in Wheat Ridge went outside his home to confront two guys trying to steal his trailer. They hooked it up to their truck and tore off. As they were driving by, the guy shot into the truck, hitting one of the guys in the eye. The man said that he was in fear of his life because the driver of the vehicle tried to run him down. Old guy bungles pretty much all of the post shooting stuff. A little bit of public outrage happens when he is arrested and threatened with jail time. He is eventually let off with 2 years unsupervised probation.
After the cops get involved, it is discovered that the guys are illegals with a previous record of doing similar stuff, only all their other charges were dropped to something like Agricultural Trespassing. Community is outraged (kind of) that these two guys are even allowed to have a history of this, instead of having been deported a long time ago.
Now, this guy's RV is set ablaze, and he says that it is obvious that someone climbed up the ladder and dumped gasoline down vent. He feels it is retaliation.
When I say that the community was "kind of" outraged, it is because we heard about it a lot on here and other gun sights, but I never heard of it at all on any of the local news channels.
USMC88-93
10-25-2010, 09:50
I am curious as to how you establish that the fire was "in retaliation" to shooting an illegal
Are you kidding me? How the F*** could you say it wasn't
Who would retaliate for that? Having worked among, with, and hired illegals aplenty in my time, I don't see much group identity among them.
I'm going to leave that one alone as it angers and disgust me.
Pancho Villa
10-25-2010, 09:53
Are you kidding me? How the F*** could you say it wasn't
It seems plausible. But there isn't any "Fraternal order of illegal immigrants" who go after these kinds of people so I wonder who did it, exactly.
I'm going to leave that one alone as it angers and disgust me.
I'm not in business to selflessly provide anyone with a job, least of all some self-righteous entitlement-mentality native born American. It makes about as much sense for some pencil-necked government dweeb to tell me who I can and cannot hire as it does for him to tell me what guns I can and cannot purchase.
Day labor. I don't check immigration status. I assume at least some of them were illegal, and I don't care.
Stealing jobs from Americans etc, I know. Cry more.
Wow, someone pissed in your Cheerios this morning huh? I just asked if you simply knowingly hired illegals. I don't cry about the whole "stealing jobs from Americans" cause half the fat-lazy-ass folks I've seen who "need" jobs seem to be more than happy to subsist on government handouts and their new 55inch TV. Anyways, what sort of day labor do you run? Do you do work on Saturdays? (Wife may be losing her job and I could use some extra work)...
Pancho Villa
10-25-2010, 09:56
80 year-old guy in Wheat Ridge went outside his home to confront two guys trying to steal his trailer. They hooked it up to their truck and tore off. As they were driving by, the guy shot into the truck, hitting one of the guys in the eye. The man said that he was in fear of his life because the driver of the vehicle tried to run him down. Old guy bungles pretty much all of the post shooting stuff. A little bit of public outrage happens when he is arrested and threatened with jail time. He is eventually let off with 2 years unsupervised probation.
After the cops get involved, it is discovered that the guys are illegals with a previous record of doing similar stuff, only all their other charges were dropped to something like Agricultural Trespassing. Community is outraged (kind of) that these two guys are even allowed to have a history of this, instead of having been deported a long time ago.
Now, this guy's RV is set ablaze, and he says that it is obvious that someone climbed up the ladder and dumped gasoline down vent. He feels it is retaliation.
When I say that the community was "kind of" outraged, it is because we heard about it a lot on here and other gun sights, but I never heard of it at all on any of the local news channels.
What happened to the illegals?
(I always thought, given the porous nature of the border, that deportation was a silly idea. Hard labor has much to say for itself, and it also offsets the costs of keeping these people under guard nicely.)
Thank you for the info Stuart. So my question still is: who dun it? Did the aforementioned illegals sneak back in and set this poor guy's house ablaze? Or did some third party take offense and do it? If so, who?
Pancho Villa
10-25-2010, 09:57
Wow, someone pissed in your Cheerios this morning huh? I just asked if you simply knowingly hired illegals. I don't cry about the whole "stealing jobs from Americans" cause half the fat-lazy-ass folks I've seen who "need" jobs seem to be more than happy to subsist on government handouts and their new 55inch TV. Anyways, what sort of day labor do you run? Do you do work on Saturdays? (Wife may be losing her job and I could use some extra work)...
All back in Texas. I am trying to get something going again here now, but going is slow.
I will let you know if I need any day labor help, but don't know if I'll have anything soon.
I think part of the reason that people were so mad was not knowing what happened to the illegals. At least, I don't remember what happened to them.
Pancho Villa
10-25-2010, 10:03
I think part of the reason that people were so mad was not knowing what happened to the illegals. At least, I don't remember what happened to them.
That's unfortunate.
So I guess we don't know whodunit. I hope we can find out in due course.
You can catch up here: http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25422&highlight=save+this+rights
Are you kidding me? How the F*** could you say it wasn't
I'm going to leave that one alone as it angers and disgust me.
+1...
bellavite1
10-25-2010, 12:10
Day labor. I don't check immigration status. I assume at least some of them were illegal, and I don't care.
Stealing jobs from Americans etc, I know. Cry more.
If you don't care you are part of the problem.
I care.
I am an immigrant.
I overstayed my Visa, paid my fines, became legal and I am now a citizen.
It can be done.
"Illegal" is illegal.
You should care.
Pancho, I think if this case wasn't as publicized as it apparently was, then there would have been little chance of retaliation.
ChunkyMonkey
10-25-2010, 12:16
If you don't care you are part of the problem.
I care.
I am an immigrant.
I overstayed my Visa, paid my fines, became legal and I am now a citizen.
It can be done.
"Illegal" is illegal.
You should care.
+1... never overstayed my visa. HA i am better immigrant than you![Tooth]
bellavite1
10-25-2010, 12:33
+1... never overstayed my visa. HA i am better immigrant than you![Tooth]
[Rant2]
+1... never overstayed my visa. HA i am better immigrant than you![Tooth]
I nominate you for Immigrant of the Month.
If you don't care you are part of the problem.
I care.
I am an immigrant.
I overstayed my Visa, paid my fines, became legal and I am now a citizen.
It can be done.
"Illegal" is illegal.
You should care.
+1...
I maxed out my Visa.... hehehe [ROFL1]
Heard Peter Boyles talking about it this morning. Seems the poor old guy was attacked in retaliation for shooting the illegal back in Feb. Thankfully, it was just his RV, and not his home that was set on fire. Any Denver folks have further info?
If I'm behind on the times on this story, sorry. Been working swings and mids lately, and haven't kept up here very well.
All I know is what I heard on Peter Boyles' show.
A reasonable person could see where the asshole buddies of the illegal maggots that tried to steal Mr. Wallace' trailer decided to get back at Mr. Wallace.
We'll just have to wait and see when and if the facts come out.
/sarc on
I'm sure Scott Storey wants to get to the bottom of it.
/sarc off
Birddog1911
10-25-2010, 13:32
Pancho, a quick overview for you. 2 illegals try to steal trailor. Bobby shoots at them, seriously wounding one. Both have lengthy criminal records, but despite that are never deported. Scott Storrey gives them immunity to testify against Bobby Wallace, a US and Colorado Citizen. There is a plea, Wallace can't own guns anymore, and the illegal scumbags are in the wind. So yea, it's pretty easy to figure out that this is retaliation.
Despite all of that, I don't understand how you could be so completely ignorant of the fact that Latinos are a vengeful bunch; just look at the poor woman who's husband was killed in TX on Falcon Lake. Sorry, but you're sounding quite a bit like an apologist; particularly when you've admitted hiring illegals.
Isn't the woman who's husband was killed (they are from here by the way) under investigation for the possibility that she committed the murder? I know that the Mexican authorities immediately dismissed the idea that it was a Mexican gang, but I'm under the impression that she is being investigated by the US about it.
StagLefty
10-25-2010, 14:11
Isn't the woman who's husband was killed (they are from here by the way) under investigation for the possibility that she committed the murder? I know that the Mexican authorities immediately dismissed the idea that it was a Mexican gang, but I'm under the impression that she is being investigated by the US about it.
MMM Haven't heard this before now !!
Well, I only "heard" it, so don't put too much stock in that until you see something reported.
Well, I only "heard" it, so don't put too much stock in that until you see something reported.
HAHA, not sure I'd put too much stock in the news reporting either! lol.
Unintended joke! +1 for Stuart!!! [Beer]
Pancho Villa
10-25-2010, 16:29
Pancho, a quick overview for you. 2 illegals try to steal trailor. Bobby shoots at them, seriously wounding one. Both have lengthy criminal records, but despite that are never deported. Scott Storrey gives them immunity to testify against Bobby Wallace, a US and Colorado Citizen. There is a plea, Wallace can't own guns anymore, and the illegal scumbags are in the wind. So yea, it's pretty easy to figure out that this is retaliation.
Seems plausible enough. Bad show that those two didn't go away for a long time.
Despite all of that, I don't understand how you could be so completely ignorant of the fact that Latinos are a vengeful bunch; just look at the poor woman who's husband was killed in TX on Falcon Lake. Sorry, but you're sounding quite a bit like an apologist; particularly when you've admitted hiring illegals.
Having been born a "latino" (whatever the hell that is, as I've never heard of any homogenous culture between the cape and the Rio Grande, and as a recall there's a healthy amount of rivalry and prejudice but I guess that it is too hard to do more than take blind stabs at things) and having worked among them pretty much my whole life, I can't say I have seen very many "vengeful latinos" running around gunning down people and setting shit on fire to redeem their honor. I've also managed to not do either my entire life, despite having had access to both lighters and firearms my whole life.
Imagine that!
I don't apologize for anyone. Criminals (those who actually do physical harm to someone or their property) should be punished severely. I don't care if anyone here smokes pot in their spare time; it ain't my business, and I'm not such a busybody that I need to obsess over that. Similarly, I don't care if you're from America, Mexico, Canada, or the freakin' moon. If you're working hard for less money I'll hire you.
The fact that our illustrious government has seen fit to restrict immigration in an effort to appease a certain economically ignorant segment of the population is not something I care about.
The jobs I have provided in the past, and any jobs I provide in the future, are not "for America" or "for Americans." The job doesn't belong to you, or to the government, or to America collectively. The idea that it does is an evil, collectivist tripe of the kind that I do not tolerate personally.
I don't exist to provide you with a job. The assertion that you have the right to bar a certain man, having been born somewhere else, from working for me in favor of hiring you, to "protect" you from his greater competence or willingness to work for less, views me (the employer) as your slave.
I am not a milch cow here for your convenience. If I am short and irritable on this subject it is because I an insulted whenever a man tells me he has the right to my sweat and work despite not having earned it. And that's all I'll say on that subject.
What a narrow minded, self serving, selfish attitude you display.
Obviously you believe you are are above the laws of the United States of America and the US Constitution, or that you are some how able to avoid those laws because you say so.
Birddog1911
10-25-2010, 17:01
Pancho, if you'll forgive my apparently ignorant use of the term latino. That doesn't change the fact that Italians are not the only people that believe in vendetta. For you to claim that hispanics (proper term, this time?) use vendettas against others all the time is foolish. Plenty of evidence of that through out all of Latin America. Was I painting with as broad a brush as you suggest? I don't think so, and I never said "all" in any statement I've made. You did that, yourself. But do us all a favor; don't play stupid.
Who would retaliate for that? Having worked among, with, and hired illegals aplenty in my time, I don't see much group identity among them.
Its strange that despite the lack of any group identity, here you are trying to say its all a big coincidence, despite not even knowing the facts of the matter. [Eek3]
Mah baby didn do nuffin.
I can't say I have seen very many "vengeful latinos" running around gunning down people and setting shit on fire to redeem their honor. I've also managed to not do either my entire life, despite having had access to both lighters and firearms my whole life.
Herp derp. Nobody said that all Hispanics are vengeful criminals. But to deny that there isn't a criminal element which may be interested in vengeance is moronic at best.
<MADDOG>
10-25-2010, 18:36
Pancho, I only have one thing to say: knowing that you break the law hiring illegal’s says a lot about your business and you...
theGinsue
10-25-2010, 18:59
+1...
I maxed out my Visa.... hehehe [ROFL1]
Yes, but did you pay the fines? [Coffee]
Well, this thread has wound me up so here I go again with sharing my feelings and opinions with the rest of you.
For those non-citizen individuals who wish to come to the U.S. simply to work and provide an income for their families, the U.S. does have a work Visa program that they could apply for and then they'd be doing it LEGALLY. We have individuals who want to come to this country and they do it LEGALLY.
The fact of the matter is that we do have borders. These borders establish our territory which determines our socio-economic environments, defines the boundaries where monetary systems begin and end and identifies individuals with similar beliefs, ideals, and values. Or, I would be more correct to say that it USED TO do those things. Once upon a time anyone wanting to come to this country came here to become a citizen - in all that it entailed. That included speaking the language of that nation (even though it wasn't officially the nations language), and integrating into the societies and communities that already existed, NOT turning whole communities into the same as they just left - not completely. Sure, we've got places like "Little Italy" and "China Town" in certain areas of the nation which have clear boundaries, but most immigrant communities blended in. I saw evidence of this while I was in Massachusetts. I had to have a local (a friend) identify to me that we were now in the Vietnamese, or the Portugese, or the Italian, or the Irish part of town. Personally, aside from seeing a greater number of certain ethnicities, I couldn't tell one area from the next.
It's about assimilation to the host, not the host assimilating to the guest. It's about wanting to adopt the values, beliefs and behaviors of a new place for oneself and not bringing in what you left. If you want nothing more that to turn your new home into what you left, then why on earth did you leave your home in the first place?
While our justice system catagorizes different offenses as more or less severe, the fact of the matter is that a criminal is a criminal - period. By turning a blind eye on any criminal activity we are stating that we accept criminal activity in most any form. Some say that we should just open the borders and let these criminals in and give them amnesty for their crime of illegal immigration - I disagree. I would think that such a thing would be a huge slap in the face to those hard-working individuals who worked tirelessly to legally immigrate to this country. I, for one, would have a difficult time looking folks like MB888 and Bellavite it the eye.
That's just how I feel and I won't apologize for it.
.
USMC88-93
10-25-2010, 19:17
I'm not in business to selflessly provide anyone with a job, least of all some self-righteous entitlement-mentality native born American. I.
I am all for you being able to make that choice IF those you hire are here leagally. From the perspective I have. If someone is legally here regardless of nationality, religion, etc. etc... than by all means hire and fire at will most if not all of them work far harder that your typical individual.. It is solely the illegal aspect that I have issues with. And every thing else that results from it. There are some fine individuals here from south of the border and there is some incredible examples of ignorant trash from that same pool of humanity.
Isn't the woman who's husband was killed (they are from here by the way) under investigation for the possibility that she committed the murder? I know that the Mexican authorities immediately dismissed the idea that it was a Mexican gang, but I'm under the impression that she is being investigated by the US about it.
Of course she is under investigation. She was there. That doesn't mean that she did it though. The investigators have to cover all the bases.
So, are you paying them a decent wage or just taking advantage of the fact that they are possibly illegal. I'm all for people immigrating into this country, just do it through the front door. My opinion is that people knowingly hiring illegal immigrants from any country should be fined. Checking immigration status is the employers obligation. Not a personal attack, your business is yours. Just my opinion on the matter.
Birddog1911
10-25-2010, 20:00
Of course she is under investigation. She was there. That doesn't mean that she did it though. The investigators have to cover all the bases.
I'd say it's pretty clear that the cartels did it, when the Mexican Sherrif that was investigating the murder had his head cut off, stuffed in a suitcase, and delivered to the military garrison.
Innocent until proven guilty. The police investigating the spouse is standard procedure. I think the cartels did it too. But assuming goes nowhere.
KevDen2005
10-25-2010, 21:10
Of course she is under investigation. She was there. That doesn't mean that she did it though. The investigators have to cover all the bases.
I agree, and pointing out to Stuart I think there was a congressperson (read it in the news and don't remember who it was because it outraged me) that immediately dismissed her story and said she is the most likely suspect. However there are witnesses on the coast that said she was being chased.
gnihcraes
10-25-2010, 21:16
From what I understand too, for the last couple of years, when you apply for the work visa, it is denied because we have too many others unemployed that could fill the position. So those coming across illegally are not helping the situation out.
I am from AZ, I worked along the border, this issue is close to my heart and my roots. My opinion, it is an invention of polititions to get elected by scaring the voters. The U.S./Mexico border barely existed 10 years ago in terms of crossing for work, especially seasonal harvest work and labor, no one, NO ONE, in the border states where I lived ever gave two rat craps about where you came from because we harvested cotton, strawberries, and lettuce and in all honestly, we didn't have to work force to deal with that kind of labor intensive work in AZ. It was as simple as that, small U.S. farmers needed numerous cheap labor, 20 miles down the road was a sea of cheap labor, it was a no brainer for all involved. This isn't to mention any of the jobs in the city.
Now, for whatever reason, illegal immigration is the greatest sin known to man. In my eyes, this is "the war on drugs," "the war on crime," on the "war on poverty." None did much other than stir up scared voters just as "the war on illegal immigration" is doing now.
Worry about strain on our hospitals, look first at the lawyers and the lazy leaches who happen to be US citizens. I say this after spending 4 years in the emergency medical field in Tucson, AZ. The worst offenders, poor white jerks who were too busy drinking to get a job! I once picked a guy up with my ambulance because "you guys are faster than a cab" and he just wanted a ride across town. thanks socialized medicine!
worry about strain on our schools-really, AZ schools suck, even a kid from Mexico wouldn't see them as some pot of gold, trust me, I learned to spell there! HA!
Social Security-they ain't getting it, but they create profit for the employer who pays into it, and only collects for one. That's a win/win for the U.S.
Crime - Arizona born and raised, our crime rate is atrocious, the FBI puts Tucson and Pheonix on their list all the time, its awful, and getting worse(EDIT: per later posts, it turns out I was in error, its getting better) , as the enforcement steps up. problem isn't jobs, the problem is drugs. too bad the war on drugs didn't go so well for us!
Anchor babies - from a dude who worked in health care - I have been to Mexican hospitals, if my wife was having a baby I would jump the line too. Nothing to do with citizenship, a lot to do with not wanting to have a baby born in a hospital lost in a time vortex where everything is stuck in 1864! look into the laws, it takes some 20 years to get back across the line after an anchor baby, they will be here far faster than that if that's their goal!
The only real complaint I have is with all this press to stop the flow we poured money into law enforcement, (see USBP budget) which may as well be trying to coral cats. Honestly, spend two days on the border, you will see the same dude trying twice. they come in, get picked up, get taken back, try again. While they are at it they waste some very expensive flight time from the air support (BTW, USBP, uses awesome looking Black Hawks) as they are running threw land Apaches made famous because the U.S. gov't couldn't find them, take some time in the ER as they had to run through the desert at 110 degrees, because the cities are crawling with PD now, and then eat three meals on our dime in lock up! its makes no sense! Hell, that's not a half bad job, quick jog, three hots and a cot and a nice scenic drive, maybe wrap up the day with a margarita.
also
Or, I would be more correct to say that it USED TO do those things. Once upon a time anyone wanting to come to this country came here to become a citizen - TheGinsue this is not true. In fact, there is a long history of migrant workers who functioned outside of the legal system for generations in this country, especially the Southwest. In fact, this statement truely speaks to how much of an invention this sudden "crippling strain" on the U.S. is. see- Ceasar Chavez and what/who he worked for.
End rant, thank you for your time
[Bang]
Birddog1911
10-25-2010, 22:02
So Big, your going to completely ignore the increase in crime as a direct result of criminals coming from Mexico? Or how about MS 13 from, I believe, Honduras? How are you going to deny that there has been a sharp increase in crimes committed by illegal aliens here in the US?
So Big, your going to completely ignore the increase in crime as a direct result of criminals coming from Mexico? Or how about MS 13 from, I believe, Honduras? How are you going to deny that there has been a sharp increase in crimes committed by illegal aliens here in the US?
Not at all! MS 13 started in L.A., California, A large number were deported to El Salvador, where they took over as well, in fact, El Salvador should be pissed at us!
In terms of the crime coming in from Mexico, we are talking two issues. Crime(read drugs) and labor. you can't stop the flow of people. (Just because it will be said, there are reservations on the border that doesn't care for federal/non-native law enforcement and won't let us build a wall across their land.)
In terms of crime, the issue isn't cheap labor its drugs, the US has all but given up on dealing with the drug issue, we just keep chasing out tails. dropping junkies in jails full of drugs and then letting them out to streets full of drugs. Stop the drugs, the cartels don't exist, but we will still have strawberries to pick. In terms of dealing with America's dependence on drugs, that's a debate for another day!
here is an analogy, a bank robber and a dude with a busted tail light are driving down I-25, D.P.D. is going to handle these two offenders differently. I am suggesting we chase the problem we are really after, no try to stop every guy with a busted tail light and hope 1 in 1000 we stop happens to be a bank robber. Who, by our policy now, we hold for a day, then send back to rob the bank again! It just makes no sense!
Birddog1911
10-25-2010, 22:31
You're dodging the issue. And if you think for one second that you will stop drug use in America, you're nuts. It won't happen.
That doesn't change the fact that there has been a huge surge in crimes being perpetrated by illegal aliens; whether they were criminals back in Mexico, or not. That is how this whole issue started; Bobby Wallace shot an illegal alien with a large rap sheet. It's sick that "sanctuary" cities even exist; those town officials should be locked up themselves.
You're dodging the issue. And if you think for one second that you will stop drug use in America, you're nuts. It won't happen.
I would say the same to you about immigration. Visit the line along AZ, it won't happen, ever. Ever. The land is too rough, the heat is too much, the distances are too long. Not to mention the people too desperate, I have picked up a man in my ambulance who walked 16 days across the desert Southwest in penny loafers! highs in the triple digits, but he wanted to look good for a job interview. If you can stop a flood of men like that, more power to you! (I should add, he was still going, but USBP decided wisely after that long in the desert he needed some medical attention)
In terms of crime rates by illegal immigrants, I can't argue that because I have seen no solid facts, either way. My opinion though, I have known many illegal immigrants, and many US citizens, I can't in any way say, based off my experience first hand that the "illegal immigrant" crime wave (assuming it exists) has to do with anything more than drugs and gangs, not to mention better information on numbers of migrants in this country. because, those are the problems we face down south. Chasing poor men through the desert isn't helping. Move USBP to Tucson and have them chase down kidnappers (usual work for drug cartels) and drug dealers, and then you would see a change in issues effecting US citizens for real.
Just looked into it because it seemed views on the illegal immigrant crime wave depend on the letter after your name more than the data. In good news the FBI says violent crime is down in '09 (http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-preliminary-annual-crime-statistics-for-2009/). Worth note, and not spot on info, in the nations four most hispanic cities, crime rates run 10% low of the national average for urban areas, to name a few New York, LA, and Pheonix. Violent crime is also down in Arizona, per the FBI.
A gang is a gang, no matter where they are from. Is it worse that they are from another country? Is it worse to shoot someone at a liquor store or a school?
OneGuy67
10-26-2010, 09:44
here is an analogy, a bank robber and a dude with a busted tail light are driving down I-25, D.P.D. is going to handle these two offenders differently. I am suggesting we chase the problem we are really after, no try to stop every guy with a busted tail light and hope 1 in 1000 we stop happens to be a bank robber. Who, by our policy now, we hold for a day, then send back to rob the bank again! It just makes no sense!
Stopping everyone with a broken tail light in your analogy is pro-active policing and may allow law enforcement to come into contact with people who may have gone under the radar. Sure, 7 out of 10 are most likely normal citizens and will go on their way with a warning or citation, 1 may be prohibited from driving through a suspension, revocation, denial or other prohibition, 1 may have a warrant for their arrest for something and 1 may be illegal who doesn't have any identification other than a fictiitous Mexican drivers license and a Matricular Consular ID card who may or may not own the vehicle he is driving and it may or may not have insurance on it.
So, in those 10 stops the officer wrote a few tickets, got a couple of people off the street and may or may not have towed a couple of vehicles. Did his actions provide public safety? I think so. A small, small fraction of public safety, but if the officer was multiplied by the hundreds, then maybe there would be a substantive impact.
If you were a wanted person, or had no license, or were illegal, and you knew that City of Whichever's PD were heavy in the use of traffic enforcement, would you risk driving through their city?
here is an analogy, a bank robber and a dude with a busted tail light are driving down I-25, D.P.D. is going to handle these two offenders differently. I am suggesting we chase the problem we are really after, no try to stop every guy with a busted tail light and hope 1 in 1000 we stop happens to be a bank robber. Who, by our policy now, we hold for a day, then send back to rob the bank again! It just makes no sense!
One point: Timothy McVeigh was caught because of a traffic violation....jus' sayin'
Byte Stryke
10-26-2010, 12:56
damnit I have checked every hardware store, Metal fabricator and construction supply company in the state!
and none of them make a pole long enough.
[Tooth]
One point: Timothy McVeigh was caught because of a traffic violation....jus' sayin'
and to OneGuy67 as well, same basic point, for the sake of having some fun with this analogy
If my cities approach to catching bank robbers (serious criminals and such) is stopping people with busted tail lights, they should fire all their detectives and we need to be looking for a new chief!
OneGuy67
10-26-2010, 15:23
It is but one prong to a multi-prong approach. Detectives are needed (Hey! I need my job!) as another prong in the approach to law enforcement.
To change your analogy: does a store just have a storefront and hope people drive by and see it and come in, or do they advertise, have a website, sent out flyers, have sales, etc. to bring in customers? Multi-prong approaches to sales. Same goes for law enforcement.
It is but one prong to a multi-prong approach. Detectives are needed (Hey! I need my job!) as another prong in the approach to law enforcement.
To change your analogy: does a store just have a storefront and hope people drive by and see it and come in, or do they advertise, have a website, sent out flyers, have sales, etc. to bring in customers? Multi-prong approaches to sales. Same goes for law enforcement.
AH! A civilian's worst nightmare and what I always secretly expected! In a town full of bank robbers and kidnappers the cop still wants to give tickets for tail lights! [Tooth]
In all seriousness, I agree with you, but I think our focus is wrong. I've been told, working search and rescue not to go into parts of the desert because it was "too dangerous" and USBP didn't go there either. It was a route used by drug runners. Drug runners our military trained to fight cartels but got bought and now mule loads packing all kinds of heat. I heard this directly from several field agents and found evidence of it myself on the trails. Hell, I had a collection of black ski masks found in the desert, and I can tell you, no one was worried about any Black Diamonds down there! My wife was not fond of my choice of wall art, I had two of them hanging on my wall when we met and someone thought that was "creepy." I was shooting with another member of the forums (Morgan338) a few miles outside of Tucson, combined we had two ARs and two Glock 19s (he may have had his M1a at the moment) not counting the usual stack of 22s and a Mosin or two. A deputy pulled up to us, no joke, told us "you should have more guns" explaining the drug running in the area, and went on to tell us he wouldn't be there at night. We have a bag full of stories like this. My opinion, why can this exisit and we are still chasing and directing energy after old men looking for work!?
We heard a story the other day on NPR about Mexico complaining about rich senior citizens from this country, retiring illegally to Mexico. I told Gloria, "They're only pissed because those seniors are doing the jobs that the Mexicans won't do."
For whom that do not believe Mexican and other south of the border people are vengeful against American citizens and the constitution.
Whos Obama talking to here when he says latinos need to punish our ememies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB1tyaKvKRI
Whats going on here http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_mexican_flag.htm
and here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I5-Wk2tEtA
and this
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4e0_1184800229
and what the hell is with LaRaza - the race, raceist group.
Examples all over the web of these American haters.
It is flat out stupid to think that Latinos are any more vengeful than anyone else.
KevDen2005
10-27-2010, 15:11
It is flat out stupid to think that Latinos are any more vengeful than anyone else.
Or any less. Can any white person on here say they wouldn't be vengeful if someone they cared for was injured or that people they knew were attacked because of race.
I am NOT implying that the were shot at because of race, I certainly believe they were shot at because they were criminals. I am merely making a point about vengeance.
If I had unlimited resources and time, I'd be one vengeful son of a bitch.
and here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I5-Wk2tEtA
this one is a chicano having a nigga moment
I forgot my disclaimer for the dummies.
Im not saying everyone south of the border hates America, I am pointing out that this is more then 1 or 2 people that share that view and its only hidden to those that care not to pay attention.
No excuses, if you hate America, your the enemy, wake up you idiots or dont, just please leave the land that I love since you hate it so much.
rockhound
10-27-2010, 19:34
[quote=BigMat;253038]I am from AZ, I worked along the border, this issue is close to my heart and my roots. My opinion, it is an invention of polititions to get elected by scaring the voters. The U.S./Mexico border barely existed 10 years ago in terms of crossing for work, especially seasonal harvest work and labor, no one, NO ONE, in the border states where I lived ever gave two rat craps about where you came from because we harvested cotton, strawberries, and lettuce and in all honestly, we didn't have to work force to deal with that kind of labor intensive work in AZ. It was as simple as that, small U.S. farmers needed numerous cheap labor, 20 miles down the road was a sea of cheap labor, it was a no brainer for all involved. This isn't to mention any of the jobs in the city.
Now, for whatever reason, illegal immigration is the greatest sin known to man. In my eyes, this is "the war on drugs," "the war on crime," on the "war on poverty." None did much other than stir up scared voters just as "the war on illegal immigration" is doing now.
Worry about strain on our hospitals, look first at the lawyers and the lazy leaches who happen to be US citizens. I say this after spending 4 years in the emergency medical field in Tucson, AZ. The worst offenders, poor white jerks who were too busy drinking to get a job! I once picked a guy up with my ambulance because "you guys are faster than a cab" and he just wanted a ride across town. thanks socialized medicine!
worry about strain on our schools-really, AZ schools suck, even a kid from Mexico wouldn't see them as some pot of gold, trust me, I learned to spell there! HA!
Social Security-they ain't getting it, but they create profit for the employer who pays into it, and only collects for one. That's a win/win for the U.S.
Crime - Arizona born and raised, our crime rate is atrocious, the FBI puts Tucson and Pheonix on their list all the time, its awful, and getting worse(EDIT: per later posts, it turns out I was in error, its getting better) , as the enforcement steps up. problem isn't jobs, the problem is drugs. too bad the war on drugs didn't go so well for us!
Anchor babies - from a dude who worked in health care - I have been to Mexican hospitals, if my wife was having a baby I would jump the line too. Nothing to do with citizenship, a lot to do with not wanting to have a baby born in a hospital lost in a time vortex where everything is stuck in 1864! look into the laws, it takes some 20 years to get back across the line after an anchor baby, they will be here far faster than that if that's their goal!
The only real complaint I have is with all this press to stop the flow we poured money into law enforcement, (see USBP budget) which may as well be trying to coral cats. Honestly, spend two days on the border, you will see the same dude trying twice. they come in, get picked up, get taken back, try again. While they are at it they waste some very expensive flight time from the air support (BTW, USBP, uses awesome looking Black Hawks) as they are running threw land Apaches made famous because the U.S. gov't couldn't find them, take some time in the ER as they had to run through the desert at 110 degrees, because the cities are crawling with PD now, and then eat three meals on our dime in lock up! its makes no sense! Hell, that's not a half bad job, quick jog, three hots and a cot and a nice scenic drive, maybe wrap up the day with a margarita.
also
this is not true. In fact, there is a long history of migrant workers who functioned outside of the legal system for generations in this country, especially the Southwest. In fact, this statement truely speaks to how much of an invention this sudden "crippling strain" on the U.S. is. see- Ceasar Chavez and what/who he worked for.
this is all BS imho, we also grew up in southern AZ, Yuma, 13 miles from the border, My father was in law enforcement for 35 years, he has been dealing with the all of the issues of the illegal aliens, they used to call them wetbacks in the day, for nearly 4 decades.
we used to go down to the orange groves behind our property in the early 70s and chase them away at night as they tried to cross in the orange groves.
they are a drain on our society from insurance to education you don't need an accounting degree to figure that out,
I have owned a construction company and got out due to the companies like Pancho's who takes advantage of the illegals like they were slaves. he gets away with nearly 62% lower overhead cause he is IMHO enslaving workers who aren't provided the basic coverage of workman's comp, health insurance or I am sure any type of liability that might actually cover the loss to his customers should there be any.
Businesses that run above board and pay their taxes and provide insurance should be rewarded, Pancho should be sure to post his next business venture here, name and address so that we can be sure not to use him and can spread the word to avoid him like the plague. oh and maybe we will just call INS and help him see the light.
anchor babies, you can no longer get maternity coverage in this state due to the anchor babies. the hospitals are covering so many uninsured births to illegal aliens that normal people cannot get covered unless you belong to a large group policy. I KNOW BECAUSE I TRIED AND HAD TO PAY FOR MY LAST BIRTH FROM MY OWN POCKET STRAIGHT UP. WE HAD LET OUR POLICY FOR MATERNITY LAPSE BECAUSE WE THOUGHT WE WERE DONE WITH HAVING KIDS, WERE STILL HAD OUR POLICY JUST NOT MATERNITY. could not add it back and could get covered anywhere. more than one agency gave us the same story.
if you don't like the living conditions and hospitals in your own country why don't you do something about it, the mexican people are sitting on the one of the largest stores of natural resources in the world and do nothing with it. stay the home and improve your own country. fund your own gov't and get a handle on the corruption, stop bringing it into my life and my country.
[Rant1] rant that, if you want to make a difference really close to home vote TANCREDO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I5-Wk2tEtA
One of the root causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was the uncontrolled migrations of various hostile tribes, leading to its eventual conquer by those tribes.
One of the root causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was the uncontrolled migrations of various hostile tribes, leading to its eventual conquer by those tribes.
Just want to play with this idea because I never understand the comparison of the US to Rome.
One of the root causes of the CREATION of the United States was the uncontrolled migrations of various hostile tribes (European states), leading to the eventual conquering OF those tribes.
Just want to play with this idea because I never understand the comparison of the US to Rome.
One of the root causes of the CREATION of the United States was the uncontrolled migrations of various hostile tribes (European states), leading to the eventual conquering OF those tribes.
The comparison is only meant to demonstrate how extreme demographic shifts typically don't turn out well for those whose position is usurped. Your example is a good one, too. ;)
The comparison is only meant to demonstrate how extreme demographic shifts typically don't turn out well for those whose position is usurped. Your example is a good one, too. ;)
touche!
[Beer]
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