View Full Version : Mechanics: What would you do?
Question 1: Would you invest in owned car or trade in for a newer used car?
Question 2: If keep, do you have an estimate that repairs might cost and a time frame that I'd be without the car?
Details: '97 Honda Civic, 2 door coupe. 165+K miles. Engine is great. Car is paid for, no payments.
Needs: Suspension (complete I believe), rotors, brakes, battery.
I've been in contact with some mechanic shops and they quote the suspension work alone as about $2K. The car itself is barely worth $800. With winter coming on I was hoping to make it a little safer for my drive. It is just a beater car I use to get to work/range/around town, but I don't have the money for a new car and I do want to drive this one into the ground (safely) as it's paid off, etc.
So, the suspension is weird as it handles corners decently but when I hit a bump or a pothole, the car will literally fishtail and bounce a little until I get going straight again. I believe I'm a pretty decent driver but this can be the death of me in an ice/rain storm.
Brakes are just plain worn and I need to replace them. They squeal, takes longer to stop, can feel them catching, etc. Last time I rotated the tires I peeked at the rotors and they are scored quite badly. Pads are almost bare. Been quoted about $400 for brakes and rotors.
Finally, take $3K and fix the car and drive it till it dies or use that money to put a downpayment (or buy outright if I can find) a newer used car with hopefully less problems?
Your advice is greatly appreciated. The wife and I are bouncing back and forth on what to do...
Pick up the brakes pads and rotors at an auto parts store and bring them over my house. I'll teach you how to do them for the cost of good conversation over a couple beers. . . in about an hour, you'll learn to never pay to have brakes done again
While it's up on my lift, we can take a look at the suspension. . . while I dont have a press, it may be as simple as swapping out some shocks, again a DIY job
and the battery is a 5 minute swap...
nogaroheli
11-02-2010, 09:01
Bear, youre getting taken at those prices. Suspension (shocks/struts at least) should be under $500, brakes (pads/shoes/disks/rotors) should be less than $300, battery under $100, this is for parts. Offer a little cash/trades even beer and im sure you could get some help pretty quick (I'm up for helping and i work cheap these days- like beers :) ) .
I hope that helps a little. The least expensive car is usually the one you already own.
MichiganMilitia
11-02-2010, 09:03
JoeT,
We need more helpful fellas like you in this town. [Beer]
JoeT,
We need more helpful fellas like you in this town. [Beer]
+1, you are a good man JoeT to extend that kind of offer / assistance.
If you don't know when the timing belt was changed (or if it has more than 70,000 miles on it), plan on changing that ASAP.
When it fails (and they will) the valves will stop in place and be bent by the pistons.
Pick up the brakes pads and rotors at an auto parts store and bring them over my house. I'll teach you how to do them for the cost of good conversation over a couple beers. . . in about an hour, you'll learn to never pay to have brakes done again
While it's up on my lift, we can take a look at the suspension. . . while I dont have a press, it may be as simple as swapping out some shocks, again a DIY job
and the battery is a 5 minute swap...
sounds like the way to do it right there![Beer]
good on you JoeT!
If you don't know when the timing belt was changed (or if it has more than 70,000 miles on it), plan on changing that ASAP.
When it fails (and they will) the valves will stop in place and be bent by the pistons.
I second that as well.
hondas with timing belts and Subarus w/ timing belts are notorious for t-belt breakage causing engine seizure and ultimate replacement.
Look at picking up a timing belt and a water pump for it as well. best to do them at the same time because the t-belt has to come off to change the water pump.
this is another DIY job.
here is how you do it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmasxgJdXJ8
StagLefty
11-02-2010, 09:14
Good Man JoeT-I don't know Bear personally but I can tell when a guy needs a hand and will appreciate it. [Beer]
nogaroheli
11-02-2010, 09:14
I wish I had a lift, so jealous Joet!
I've got a press we can use for struts too.
ChunkyMonkey
11-02-2010, 09:22
+1 for JoeT... Definitely one of the good ones I've met here so far.
Byte Stryke
11-02-2010, 09:23
I Also have a press I can drag down there
funkfool
11-02-2010, 09:23
JoeT ROCKS.
Wow JoeT, very gracious offer. If you would like to PM when you might be available and all that jazz, I'd love to try to work something out.... Sometime close to Thanksgiving would be great as I ahve that Thursday/Fri/Sat/Sunday off and I won't be "on call".
I kinda had a feeling the prices were high but I was just chalking it up to time+labor, etc. My car is just a beater, but I would like it to be halfway safe once the snow hits. Last year was a friggin' nightmare...
I was told not to worry about the t-belt until I did a tuneup... so I guess a followup question would be, what is involved in a tuneup? Is it just switching out spark plugs and their corresponding wires?... No, I'm not a car guy. But I can change oil, tires, etc. lol.
I don't know how many times I need to tell you that your car doesn't need all new suspension. Like others have said, those prices are ridiculous. There are plenty of back yard mechanics like Joe who can do that stuff for a fraction of the price for you.
Pick up the brakes pads and rotors at an auto parts store and bring them over my house. I'll teach you how to do them for the cost of good conversation over a couple beers. . . in about an hour, you'll learn to never pay to have brakes done again
While it's up on my lift, we can take a look at the suspension. . . while I dont have a press, it may be as simple as swapping out some shocks, again a DIY job
and the battery is a 5 minute swap...
Rgr, let's figure out a time. Battery I can do, done it before.
The least expensive car is usually the one you already own.
Rgr, thanks for the info on the prices. Wife said that same exact thing about least expensive. Which is good. Final student loan is coming off of deferrment this month, ouch.
If you don't know when the timing belt was changed ... plan on changing that ASAP.
I second that as well...Look at picking up a timing belt and a water pump for it as well.
Rgr that, thank you for the headsup.
I don't know Bear personally ...
We'll have to remedy that, I have a bunch of clays just waiting for a day off of work to go break.
I've got a press we can use for struts too.
I Also have a press I can drag down there
Party at Joe's house?... lol. [Beer]
Nogaroheli, you still need that G21SF for a form or no? I never did hear back on that. This would be a good time to get it to you.
I don't drink (oh noes, the horror!!!) so now would be a good time to let me know what y'all's flavor is so I don't pick up some Keystone piss or something. I know Byte likes Mike's Hard Lemonade (I think) stuff.
[Beer]
I don't know how many times I need to tell you that your car doesn't need all new suspension. Like others have said, those prices are ridiculous. There are plenty of back yard mechanics like Joe who can do that stuff for a fraction of the price for you.
At least three times Stu!.. make it four now. lol. Thank you Sir. It needs something, that's for sure. A car isn't supposed to literally bouce/shake and fishtail on asphalt when it hits a bump or pothole... Rgr on the back yard mechs, I'm working on it.
2ndChildhood
11-02-2010, 09:42
+87 for this whole thread
[Beer]
HBARleatherneck
11-02-2010, 09:43
i would help, but you would waste a tank of gas getting here. but, i can.
also stuart, get rid of that avatar. i want the last one back. this one creeps me out.
also stuart, get rid of that avatar. i want the last one back. this one creeps me out.
It's supposed to.
FuLNNLQ5SyU
Bear, look around at car forums for good prices and reviews on parts. For things like water pumps, timing belts, and especially spark plugs, just stick with OEM Honda stuff. Shocks, struts, springs, etc you might be able to find better after market stuff for cheaper.
Put me in the fix it up category. I do a lot of my own work. Brakes are real easy. While 2k sounds way too high for suspension, what did they want to replace?
I think timing belt replacement is every 80k. Do the cam seals at the same time.
Don't forget to replace the air freshener!!
Troublco
11-02-2010, 09:59
I have a good coil spring compressor; depending on the when I may be able to lend a hand too.
Timing belt is every 60k, at least on a Honda.
im up for a fix it up party. i can do almost anything on cars with the right tools, ill bring the stripper pole you guys bring the girls hahaha
Put me in the fix it up category. I do a lot of my own work. Brakes are real easy. While 2k sounds way too high for suspension, what did they want to replace?
I think timing belt replacement is every 80k. Do the cam seals at the same time.
Don't forget to replace the air freshener!!
What did they want to replace on the suspension?... I'm not sure, the guy just said "suspension". But he did mention something like shocks on the front and struts in the back or something or other. I'm not mechanically inclined.... [Swim]
What are cam seals?
Gosh dangit, I need a list of what to replace.
I have a good coil spring compressor; depending on the when I may be able to lend a hand too.
The more the merrier in my view. It's Joe's house though, all up to him.
So list:
Shocks
Struts
Brake pads/shoes (front and back)
Rotors (front and back?)
Battery
Timing belt
Other belts?
Water Pump (what is this for? I don't have a drinking fountain in the trunk. Hehe.)
Cam seals?
Spark Plugs?
Spark plug wire things?
Anything else?
(I just had the tires rotated, oil changed, air filters changed... which brought up this whole mess again.)
StagLefty
11-02-2010, 10:11
We'll have to remedy that, I have a bunch of clays just waiting for a day off of work to go break.
I don't drink
You'll be in my neck of the woods at JoeT's. I'd be up for learning some car repairs. We could do some pizza and you and I soft drinks. [Beer]
Troublco
11-02-2010, 10:16
Don't forget brake fluid. The brakes will need bled after the brake job, and it never hurts to flush the old fluid out when you do this sort of work. But I'll bet there's an auto supply somewhere close to JoeT's.
ill bring the stripper pole you guys bring the girls hahaha
I can bring these two but I garuntee you they won't be dancing on any poles, HAHAHAHA.
darn... won't let me attach wifey and friend....
Edit: got it.
Byte Stryke
11-02-2010, 10:20
i would help, but you would take a tank of gas getting here. but, i can.
get to denver and then carpool with one of the others... like me.
HBARleatherneck
11-02-2010, 10:33
i meant working on it up here. i dont care for leaving much. plus, i have a house full of kids all the time to watch.
yea my wife would kill me anyways hahahah
Byte Stryke
11-02-2010, 11:02
well if I am bringing a press I would have to take the pickup.
Room for 1 more.
Guys,
Thanks for the kind words. . . I'm by no means a mechanic, I'm just relatively handy with a set of tools. Someone about 20 years ago did the same thing for me. . . I was paying someone for basic auto maintenance, and a neighbor showed me how to do the basics. Knowing your limitations is the key to success
I'm not sure if the weekend after Thanksgiving is good for me. . . My mother in Law is flying in for the week and I'll have to check with Momma if there are any plans.
Either way a brake job is only a couple hours (I've never done a honda, but how hard could it be).
I'm in Broomfield and if we want to make a small get together out of it, that works for me too. . . .
here's the garage. . .
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p92/jtehan/1282681772.jpg
the lift was the best money I've spent. This is my second, it was more money to ship the old one that it was to buy one out here. depending on what you drive, you only need 10' ceilings to double your parking.
Time is all on you, whenever you are free and feel up to it. If I have to take a day off work, we'll get it done! lol. Just let me know your schedule. Again, thank you Sir.
ShooterJM
11-02-2010, 12:29
FYI, if you've done any brake jobs before the front brakes on a mid 90's civic you can knock out in an hour or two tops. Rotors might take a bit longer, but as long as you have the tools should be fast.
I hear you on the suspension though. Mine's a 95 civic and it does the exact same thing. Of course my CV joint is going too...
Beater cars, aren't they great? [Bang]
CV joint... that sounds familiar... what is that?
It is the joint in your front axle that allows your wheels to turn (for steering, not spin). If your car clicks when you turn, then your CV joints are bad. Axles are cheap and easy (for a back yard mechanic) to replace.
The water pump is what pushes your radiator fluid through your engine.
ChunkyMonkey
11-02-2010, 12:49
Party at Joe's house? Honda brake is easy... It wont take more than a broncos game, few pack of beers, some BBQ and 3 hours to finish 4 set. [Tooth]
It is the joint in your front axle that allows your wheels to turn (for steering, not spin). If your car clicks when you turn, then your CV joints are bad. Axles are cheap and easy (for a back yard mechanic) to replace.
The water pump is what pushes your radiator fluid through your engine.
Ah, thanks Stu. I think I had CV joints replaced a year or two ago. Need to find that folder of my car maintenance records... but I've moved like four times in the past year....
Just found a neat site with lots of car info: www.2carpros.com (http://www.2carpros.com)
Interesting reading some of this stuff.
"Get that beer off the Shelby!" can be the theme! HAHA.
ChunkyMonkey
11-02-2010, 12:57
... or get that bear of the shelby!
Here is a how to write up and honda front brakes.
http://spoon.org/civic/DIY-Brakes/
The only issue I see is getting the screws out of the rotors. Hammer drivers work best for these screws if you have that tool. Or you can use a big phillps screwdriver and a hammer to get them out.
The suspension is struts all around. From the problem you described I would look at the strut mounts.
clublights
11-02-2010, 13:07
the only " problem" I see would be if the front rotors are pressed onto the hub on that car.. otherwise the brake swap is easy as pie to do.
The front struts on the suspension can be a pain .. but as long as someone has a spring compressor ( or you can "rent" them at a auto zone or advanced auto parts .. what you do is deposit the cost of buying them which they refund when you bring it back ) it's not super hard to do all in all
the battery is 5 mins of swap work .. tho man have batteries gotten expensive in the last few years!!!!
if you don't have a clymer, haynes or Chilton manual I suggest picking one up .. or search on-line for the honda factory service manual...that's free if you can find it .. the others cost about 40 bucks or so( at least the last time I bought one) the Haynes, Clymer, Or Chilton Manuals are nicer for " backyard " type mechanics as they describe the process in much greater detail then the factory manual.
Edit...
I'd also consider completely draining and putting new brake fluid in .. I'm sure it's been awhile since that last happened on your car ( everyone is bad about this.. even the guy suggesting you do it LOL ) then of course giving them a good bleed. this will improve feel and power of the brakes.
Oiy vey... lots of stuff being mentioned with "and check this or that".... Should I just take it to a mech in town (heard great things about a place called Japenese Connection) and get things in writing as to what needs to be done to keep the car "safe" and after I get teh exam then just go buy the parts and get with y'all to help with the work?
Okay, taking copius notes.... Let me iron out a time with Joe and then we'll take things from there.
... or get that bear of the shelby!
HA, doubt I can even fit in a shelby. I have probs gettin into the FIL's (I hate the man... long story) Rousch.
clublights
11-02-2010, 13:26
Oiy vey... lots of stuff being mentioned with "and check this or that".... Should I just take it to a mech in town (heard great things about a place called Japenese Connection) and get things in writing as to what needs to be done to keep the car "safe" and after I get teh exam then just go buy the parts and get with y'all to help with the work?
Okay, taking copius notes.... Let me iron out a time with Joe and then we'll take things from there.
I think some of it can be done in "stages"
I'd do the brakes and suspension at the same time since you have to take all of the brake stuff off to do the struts..... might as well replace em while your in there.
I did some QUICK research on your car and it's not as bad as it could be so the brakes and suspension is a decent afternoon of work. a good 2-3 six pack of beer job :-D
doing the water pump and timing belt can be done " at a later date" but as others have suggested something to do before it fails and ruins the motor.
when you joe and the others ( I'm willing to help if we can make the day work out for timing right) do the brakes/suspension we can look over the car and make a list of things to work on. No need to pay someone to do this.
ShooterJM
11-02-2010, 13:33
Here is a how to write up and honda front brakes.
http://spoon.org/civic/DIY-Brakes/
The only issue I see is getting the screws out of the rotors. Hammer drivers work best for these screws if you have that tool. Or you can use a big phillps screwdriver and a hammer to get them out.
That's a good walkthrough
bear I'm in the same boat with my zuki.
any amount of money I could spend to get into a different car (that will still have high miles and maintenance issues) would be better spent keeping my current high mile car running.
I decided to keep it.
The cost of fixing an owned vehicle doesn't matter at all if you don't sell it.
Bear, I'm in the same situation with my Infiniti. I'm going to do the brakes with a friend. I think I have a broken axle as well. I recently had to replace my wiper motor as well. Fortunately it turned out to be really easy. As soon as I get a job, I'm going to get it some other much needed repairs and keep rolling it.
Alright. . .I just spoke to my wife and the Saturday after Thanksgiving works for me.
Anyone interested in coming over and giving Tim a hand let me or him know and I'll get the address over to you. For a point of reference, I'm just off 136 and Sheradan in Broomfield
StagLefty
11-02-2010, 18:53
Alright. . .I just spoke to my wife and the Saturday after Thanksgiving works for me.
Anyone interested in coming over and giving Tim a hand let me or him know and I'll get the address over to you. For a point of reference, I'm just off 136 and Sheradan in Broomfield
We're almost neighbors-I'm at 132nd and Huron. I believe Bear is in the Springs so I guess our goal would be to get as much done as possible while he's up here.I have overnight space for him if needed. [Beer]
I could walk to your house Joe. It'd take me two hours, but I could do it.
gnihcraes
11-02-2010, 19:26
I haven't read all the replies, but there appear to be complete suspension upgrade kits for that make/model of honda. Could possibly get everything and then some extras for one price.
price isn't listed, but as an example: http://www.carpartswholesale.com/wholesale/suspension/honda-civic-9438842.html
Byte Stryke
11-02-2010, 19:28
120th and York
so do we need the Hydraulic press?
This isn't something that you want to cart around on a whim.
Lemme know one way orta other if'n we need it.
argonstrom
11-02-2010, 19:45
We're almost neighbors-I'm at 132nd and Huron.
We're almost neighbors, too! (Well, at my old house, and neighbors being like 200-some blocks south of you... [ROFL1] )
If I can lend any automotive assistance to anyone down here, I'd be happy to help.
120th and York
so do we need the Hydraulic press?
This isn't something that you want to cart around on a whim.
Lemme know one way orta other if'n we need it.
Admittedly I've only done suspension on my cobra (easy to do with brand new parts with no weight to the chassis and no body to get in the way) and front air bags on my audi. So if you've done it, and feel comfortable doing it at my house, lets get as much done for him as he wants
Byte Stryke
11-02-2010, 21:13
<--- Fixes computers, Networks and MINOR Automotive.
I haven't a clue what we would need the press for in his car.
we use it for A-Arm Bushing on S series trucks
clublights
11-02-2010, 23:33
Alright. . .I just spoke to my wife and the Saturday after Thanksgiving works for me.
Anyone interested in coming over and giving Tim a hand let me or him know and I'll get the address over to you. For a point of reference, I'm just off 136 and Sheradan in Broomfield
If I'm not in New Mexico For the holiday I'm in to help ( I never decide if I'm going to go till the last min drives my mother crazy )
I don't THINK we need the press for the suspension or brakes on this car...
Tho Bear should go grab one of the manuals I suggested before we say for sure on that.
Troublco
11-03-2010, 00:00
the only " problem" I see would be if the front rotors are pressed onto the hub on that car.. otherwise the brake swap is easy as pie to do.
The front struts on the suspension can be a pain .. but as long as someone has a spring compressor ( or you can "rent" them at a auto zone or advanced auto parts .. what you do is deposit the cost of buying them which they refund when you bring it back ) it's not super hard to do all in all
the battery is 5 mins of swap work .. tho man have batteries gotten expensive in the last few years!!!!
if you don't have a clymer, haynes or Chilton manual I suggest picking one up .. or search on-line for the honda factory service manual...that's free if you can find it .. the others cost about 40 bucks or so( at least the last time I bought one) the Haynes, Clymer, Or Chilton Manuals are nicer for " backyard " type mechanics as they describe the process in much greater detail then the factory manual.
Edit...
I'd also consider completely draining and putting new brake fluid in .. I'm sure it's been awhile since that last happened on your car ( everyone is bad about this.. even the guy suggesting you do it LOL ) then of course giving them a good bleed. this will improve feel and power of the brakes.
I have the spring compressor, and an impact driver that takes the larger size apex type bits or 1/2 sockets. I also have a fair assortment of brake tools, so if this is one of those (like a subaru or mazda) where you have to turn the pistons back in on a threaded shaft I have a tool for that as well.
StagLefty
11-03-2010, 08:02
We're almost neighbors, too! (Well, at my old house, and neighbors being like 200-some blocks south of you... [ROFL1] )
I can see Littleton from my porch [ROFL1]
Alright. . .I just spoke to my wife and the Saturday after Thanksgiving works for me.
Anyone interested in coming over and giving Tim a hand let me or him know and I'll get the address over to you. For a point of reference, I'm just off 136 and Sheradan in Broomfield
Rgr, much appreciated. I will start getting some parts together... hopefully the right ones, lol.
I haven't read all the replies, but there appear to be complete suspension upgrade kits for that make/model of honda. Could possibly get everything and then some extras for one price.
price isn't listed, but as an example: http://www.carpartswholesale.com/wholesale/suspension/honda-civic-9438842.html
I'll look into it.
Tho Bear should go grab one of the manuals I suggested before we say for sure on that.
Rgr Wilco, will do.
Byte Stryke
11-03-2010, 09:15
I can see Littleton from my porch [ROFL1]
I'd Move
[LOL]
ShooterJM
11-03-2010, 10:40
http://www.honda-acura.net/forums/do-it-yourself/165815-diy-6th-gen-civic-suspension.html
Here's a pretty good walkthrough on how to replace the suspension on a 97 civic. Not sure what model you have, but it should be the same as long as it's not like a CRX or del sol.
Wow... that looks intense to my non-mechanical self... "the spring can kill you" Wow, talk about some tension....Sure this is a single day project?....
ChunkyMonkey
11-03-2010, 12:53
Nah, 1/2 hour each corner for coil over. Five link suspension on airmatic like mine is freaking 1/2 day per corner.
ghettodub
11-03-2010, 13:29
That's a pretty good walkthrough, and yeah, it's pretty easy. Going to borrow/rent a spring compressor from Checker will make the job super easy, so definitely recommend doing that
nogaroheli
11-06-2010, 00:01
Bear, I can't make it that day but I have a spring compressor I can give you before you go up. Also, check the library for Chilton/Haynes manuals- they have a TON of them. If you want to I can check your rotors beforehand as well to see if you have enough thickness to get them turned or just need to get new ones. And not to hijack a part of the, gtg but if you want to change the brakes here in the Springs I can show you how- I'll be doing the ones on my wife's Passat in the next week if you want to join in.
Thanks again for the offer on the Glock to mold off of, I've been spending a lot of (what little I have free) time working on the business side of the holsters and haven't been making too many actual holsters. I'd love to take you up on the offer when I'm ready though.
If you need your battery installed before the meet lemme know and we can get it done in a few minutes.
argonstrom
11-06-2010, 00:04
I can see Littleton from my porch [ROFL1]
I'd Move
[LOL]
HEY!!!! :(
Bear I just did my brakes (in the Springs actually) the other day and was surprised how easy it was.
CANCELLED: Enjoy your Saturday.... my wife lost her job, so this will have to wait.
Thanks for everyone trying to chip in and volunteer their time/tools/etc (although I was going to try and bring beer for y'all). I love this board.
See y'all around.
StagLefty
11-09-2010, 11:01
We're not going anywhere Bear. Let us know when your ready. [Beer]
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