Smile !, Your On Red Light Camera

[SideShow Bob]

Coming To An Intersection Near You.
SH 285 / Hampden AT River Point Pkwy. / Brady Ct.
Red light Photo enforcement is to be installed and is under construction at this location.
If you don't want an unneeded or unwanted expense with a picture of your license plate and your face showing up in your mail box start slowing on the Yellows and stopping on the RED Signals.
I am not sure of the completion date or when enforcement will start, but if you see those strobes go off, it is probably too late.

[sniper7]

load of BULL SHIT!!!!!


i hate those things

[Irving]

Take care of the problem then: http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30359

[car-15]

if its like the two down here just cover half your face when you go through, they cant ticket you unless there is a clear view of your full face, and the person in the pic is the registered owner of the car. and the local pd has to review every pic before it is sent out. last I heard they were breaking even at best.

[SideShow Bob]

if its like the two down here just cover half your face when you go through, they cant ticket you unless there is a clear view of your full face, and the person in the pic is the registered owner of the car. and the local pd has to review every pic before it is sent out. last I heard they were breaking even at best.

Up here in the Metro area they can fine the registered vehicle owner regardless of the person driving. I don't know the particulars of this.

[hurley842002]

Seems to me, the only reason to be disgruntled over the Red light cams, is if you run red lights. Easy solution, DON'T RUN RED LIGHTS.
[Beer]

[Byte Stryke]

Up here in the Metro area they can fine the registered vehicle owner regardless of the person driving. I don't know the particulars of this.


I would be interested in seeing the full law on that.

"Welcome back from your 3 year coma Mr. Smith, but we have to take you to jail no for running a traffic light 6 months ago and failing to appear in court."

[Richard K]

At Yosemite and Arapahoe I stopped at a red light. A woman in the next lane stopped in the crosswalk and then backed up. Before she backed up the camera flashed. I'd assume she got a surprise in the mail. BS

[Birddog1911]

Seems to me, the only reason to be disgruntled over the Red light cams, is if you run red lights. Easy solution, DON'T RUN RED LIGHTS.
[Beer]
My thoughts exactly. I don't know about Denver, but the intersections here in the Springs where they put them have been notorious for runners, and some of the most dangerous intersections because of them.

[StagLefty]

There was a youtube compilation of red light runnings awhile back. I flinched at every red light after watching that.

[SideShow Bob]

They reduce Red light runner accidents, but cause an increase of rear end collisions due to drivers that follow too closely ( tailgaters ).
Also be forewarned, the red light enforcement at SH 6/85 @ 60th Ave. in Commerce City is now in full operation.

[68Charger]

This works for the most part, unless the city starts shortening the yellows...

some municipalities were found to shorten them below some standard (Federal?) when they were measured.

[Clint45]

Up here in the Metro area they can fine the registered vehicle owner regardless of the person driving. I don't know the particulars of this.

Here in Denver Metro they have something called "Photo Enforcement" that has nothing to do with red lights. They park a Prius minivan with the strobes mounted all over the rear hatch and an array of cameras in the back window on the side of he road. Sometimes it is in school zones, other times it is on a main road during rush hour.

Last year I got a letter from "Photo Enforcement" in the mail with a color photo of my tag as well as my face behind the wheel. Letter claimed I'd been exceeding the speed limit by 8 mph a month earlier in a neighborhood I seldom drive through. Stated that if I paid $70 online no points would be reported to DMV.

You CAN fight these and win, but it involves taking a day off from work and hiring an attorney, which usually amounts to many times the amount they're extorting in the form of "fines."

[SideShow Bob]

At Yosemite and Arapahoe I stopped at a red light. A woman in the next lane stopped in the crosswalk and then backed up. Before she backed up the camera flashed. I'd assume she got a surprise in the mail. BS

You won't get ticketed if you stop, but trip the camera by passing the plane of the stop bar or entering the crosswalk.
The second picture that shows your vehicle in the intersection and shows the red signal will be of an empty intersection and a red traffic signal.
So if you come to a complete stop behind the crosswalk and remain there until the signal is green you should never see the flashes.

[SideShow Bob]

This works for the most part, unless the city starts shortening the yellows...

some municipalities were found to shorten them below some standard (Federal?) when they were measured.

This can only happen due to a Traffic Signal Controller malfunction,
All Controllers are manufactured so that the Yellow timings cannot be manually changed to below Federal ( MUTCD ) standards.

[Half Live]

Here in Denver Metro they have something called "Photo Enforcement" that has nothing to do with red lights. They park a Prius minivan with the strobes mounted all over the rear hatch and an array of cameras in the back window on the side of he road. Sometimes it is in school zones, other times it is on a main road during rush hour.


I see these all the time working and they are not Prius minivan since I don't think there is a thing called that :) But they are Dodge Caravans.

[Irving]

Seems to me, the only reason to be disgruntled over the Red light cams, is if you run red lights. Easy solution, DON'T RUN RED LIGHTS.
[Beer]

Many, many cities have illegally short yellow lights. I drove through one that I'm sure was illegally short. I was too lazy to go back and time it though. I've read several articles about cities being caught doing this and having to refund millions of dollars to the people ticketed.

Also, don't forget that when you pay $70 on-line, they also charge you an extra $5 for the "Convenience Fee."

[StagLefty]

Many, many cities have illegally short yellow lights. I drove through one that I'm sure was illegally short. I was too lazy to go back and time it though. I've read several articles about cities being caught doing this and having to refund millions of dollars to the people ticketed.

Also, don't forget that when you pay $70 on-line, they also charge you an extra $5 for the "Convenience Fee."

Call Jesse-sounds like conspiracy to me [ROFL1]

[Anton]

They're for our safety and totally not just another source of income for the local government. [Stooge]

[Ah Pook]

This works for the most part, unless the city starts shortening the yellows...

some municipalities were found to shorten them below some standard (Federal?) when they were measured.

You won't get ticketed if you stop, but trip the camera by passing the plane of the stop bar or entering the crosswalk.
The second picture that shows your vehicle in the intersection and shows the red signal will be of an empty intersection and a red traffic signal.
So if you come to a complete stop behind the crosswalk and remain there until the signal is green you should never see the flashes.
I seriously feel that some of the yellows, on camera(ed) intersections, in Boulder are too short. No, I have never received a red light camera ticket (knocking on wood).

IMHO the red light cameras and van cams are nothing more than revenue enhancers.

[Byte Stryke]

http://www.nbc-2.com/Global/story.asp?S=12265823

The speed limit on Collier Boulevard, where she was cited, is 45 mph. According to county guidelines, the yellow light should be 4.5 seconds.
Mogil said he tested it 15 times with an average of only 3.8 seconds.


http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/04/arizona-police-report-shows-speed-camera-caused-accident/

A 2007 study by Arizona State University concluded that there was a 54-percent increase in rear-end collisions and a 9-percent increase in injuries from rear-end collision on the Loop 101 freeway during the state’s first experiment with automated freeway ticketing. The study’s author, paid by the city of Scottsdale, dismissed the significance of this finding by saying, “Increases in rear-end crashes are traded for reductions in other crash types.”

Just because someone with a badge and a gun says you were wrong doesn't make it so.
He may perceive you have done wrong...take it to court.
Just saying

[Anton]

Just because someone with a badge and a gun says you were wrong doesn't make it so.
He may perceive you have done wrong...take it to court.
Just saying

The only way to win at court is if the cop doesn't show up, which almost never happens. When its your story against a cop's, you lose.

[Elhuero]

if the cops want money from tickets they should get up off their damn lazy asses and go write them.

they put cameras everywhere, but harass and arrest people that point a camera at them in public?

fuck that shit

I hope every officer involved with the cameras gets nut cancer.

(in case you can't tell, this is a hot button issue for me)

[funkfool]

...., they also charge you an extra $5 for the "Convenience Fee."
How convienient.
Saw someone get it today on W. bound Platte at Circle in the Springs...

[theGinsue]

Seems to me, the only reason to be disgruntled over the Red light cams, is if you run red lights. Easy solution, DON'T RUN RED LIGHTS.
[Beer]

I'll see how things turn out from my tripping one of these devices today and get back to you on that point if it doesn't go in my favor.


My thoughts exactly. I don't know about Denver, but the intersections here in the Springs where they put them have been notorious for runners, and some of the most dangerous intersections because of them.

See my next comment about these devices in the Springs to see what I think of them.


You won't get ticketed if you stop, but trip the camera by passing the plane of the stop bar or entering the crosswalk.
The second picture that shows your vehicle in the intersection and shows the red signal will be of an empty intersection and a red traffic signal.
So if you come to a complete stop behind the crosswalk and remain there until the signal is green you should never see the flashes.

I was test driving a car today for my daughter and came to the intersection of Platte & Circle here in the Springs. I was in the right turn lane on Platte to turn onto northbound Circle. I came to a FULL stop - almost certain that I was behind the edge of any crosswalk when I saw a light flash (didn't realize that they had the photo enforcement at this intersection). No one that I noticed has gone through the intersection late so it could have been for me as much as for anyone else. I looked to ensure there was no oncoming traffic and then made my right turn - when the camera flashed again; this time clearly for me. Hey, it was a legal right turn on a red since it wasnt posted otherwise; right? Anyway, this vehicle didn't have a front license plate and only had a dealers plate in the back window of the SUV. I'm doubting that they'll have photo evidence, but who knows? If it does get back to the dealer, he has a photo copy of my DL and it could possibly work it's way around to me, but I still deny any wrong-doing. We'll see how it turns out.


They're for our safety and totally not just another source of income for the local government. [Stooge]

I hope you're being sarcastic (which I'm guessing that you are given your 3 Stooges smiley). This Spring/Summer, when Colorado Springs started advertising that they were putting up several of these devices most of the information being reported was how much money the city was expecting to generate from them with little side notes about how they'd improve safety. Each time I read about them I clearly knew what the cities primary motive was/is for putting these in - $$!, not safety (especially since the original word was that they were getting the devices for a tremendous discount, or even free to the city).

[Byte Stryke]

The only way to win at court is if the cop doesn't show up, which almost never happens. When its your story against a cop's, you lose.


holy shit! you are right.. we will always lose.
NEVER stand up for what you believe to be correct!
How terribly optimistic of me to think that there might be some semblance of justice left in the system!

Fuck I might as well just lay down and die right now.. shits done, game over.


/sarcasm
I kinda meant that you should get your shit together, get some proof and stand up for what you believe in.(see example of man in article as quoted.)

I Saw a lady beat a speeding ticket based on her GPS/navstar-whatever recordings.

I beat a speeding ticket I was clocked at 44 in a 45, cop wrote it was a 40 and I brought a picture of the speed limit sign and surrounding area to the court, case dropped.

Of course if you are a dumb-shit and just go in there and say "Nuh-Uhh", you deserve whatever they give you.

[Anton]

How terribly optimistic of me to think that there might be some semblance of justice left in the system!

Yep. [Coffee]

[Byte Stryke]

Yep. [Coffee]

Goofy, yer not helping :D

[OneGuy67]

At Yosemite and Arapahoe I stopped at a red light. A woman in the next lane stopped in the crosswalk and then backed up. Before she backed up the camera flashed. I'd assume she got a surprise in the mail. BS


That one belongs to the City of Greenwood Village and I know that they have an officer (he's retired and doing the photo red light enforcement on a contract basis) who's sole job i review each one for violation. There is video of the incident that you can review online if you get a citation. Theirs is pretty fair overall.

[OneGuy67]

Here in Denver Metro they have something called "Photo Enforcement" that has nothing to do with red lights. They park a Prius minivan with the strobes mounted all over the rear hatch and an array of cameras in the back window on the side of he road. Sometimes it is in school zones, other times it is on a main road during rush hour.

Last year I got a letter from "Photo Enforcement" in the mail with a color photo of my tag as well as my face behind the wheel. Letter claimed I'd been exceeding the speed limit by 8 mph a month earlier in a neighborhood I seldom drive through. Stated that if I paid $70 online no points would be reported to DMV.

You CAN fight these and win, but it involves taking a day off from work and hiring an attorney, which usually amounts to many times the amount they're extorting in the form of "fines."


When this technology came out and was introduced, a legislature quickly got a law passed that the maximum fine was $40 for a first time offense and there would be no points assessed. Secondary offenses are more expensive, but still do not carry points. My wife keeps getting her picture sent to her with a bill. Frickin' lead foot!

[Anton]

When this technology came out and was introduced, a legislature quickly got a law passed that the maximum fine was $40 for a first time offense and there would be no points assessed. Secondary offenses are more expensive, but still do not carry points. My wife keeps getting her picture sent to her with a bill. Frickin' lead foot!

In my mind, the fact that they can't assess points with these tickets is an admittance that they are illegitimate in the first place...

[OneGuy67]

Additionally, these red light and photo speed technologies are owned by private companies who contract with the cities for a small fee and shares of the fines. So you have private industry working with city government for...well, you can fill in the rest with your opinion of them. Personally, red light runners and left turners were the worst accidents to go on as a patrol officer. So anything can lowers their rate of occurance is a good thing in my book. As someone here said, why worry about them if you aren't running the light or speeding?

[OneGuy67]

In my mind, the fact that they can't assess points with these tickets is an admittance that they are illegitimate in the first place...


I'm not inclined to argue with you over their legitimacy, but would you rather get the $40, no point ticket in the mail or the nice officer giving you the $100, 4-point ticket in person?

[SideShow Bob]

I was test driving a car today for my daughter and came to the intersection of Platte & Circle here in the Springs. I was in the right turn lane on Platte to turn onto northbound Circle. I came to a FULL stop - almost certain that I was behind the edge of any crosswalk when I saw a light flash (didn't realize that they had the photo enforcement at this intersection). No one that I noticed has gone through the intersection late so it could have been for me as much as for anyone else. I looked to ensure there was no oncoming traffic and then made my right turn - when the camera flashed again; this time clearly for me. Hey, it was a legal right turn on a red since it wasnt posted otherwise; right? Anyway, this vehicle didn't have a front license plate and only had a dealers plate in the back window of the SUV. I'm doubting that they'll have photo evidence, but who knows? If it does get back to the dealer, he has a photo copy of my DL and it could possibly work it's way around to me, but I still deny any wrong-doing. We'll see how it turns out.





Is this intersection posted " NO RIGHT TURN ON RED " ?
The photo RED light camera at Bellview Ave. @ Quebec St. is also used to enforce the EB no right turn blank out sign when it is illuminated.

[Anton]

I'm not inclined to argue with you over their legitimacy, but would you rather get the $40, no point ticket in the mail or the nice officer giving you the $100, 4-point ticket in person?

If you were to get assraped would you be thankful that they used lube or would you be pissed about getting assraped in the first place? Your question is a false dichotomy.

[theGinsue]

?? Sideshow

I don't get it.

ETA: Sideshow, your comments below my quote didn't originally show up, I just saw you quoting me. But, now that I see:

Is this intersection posted " NO RIGHT TURN ON RED " ?
The photo RED light camera at Bellview Ave. @ Quebec St. is also used to enforce the EB no right turn blank out sign when it is illuminated.

I didn't see a No right on red sign posted and there has never been one there before, but then again, I could have missed it. The next time I drive past that intersection I'll have to make a point of looking to see if they've changed the rules at that location.

[SideShow Bob]

I'll try to get a picture of it in the illuminated and blanked out modes and post them.

[Daniel_187]

Most of the money goes to AZ theres a company there that makes most of the cams. last I heard

[car-15]

below is a cut and paste from the local paper, looks like if you take them to court you stand a pretty god chance of getting it dropped. it also say's if the driver is not the owner than it will be dismissed.

The cameras record vehicles that run red lights. The photos are supposed to capture the vehicle's license plate, which is used to track a violator through Colorado driving records. Suspected violators then receive tickets in the mail.
American Traffic Solutions, a national red-light-camera company, installed the cameras and reviews the photos for violators. The photos are then sent to the police department for final review.
The idea of the program is to make those busy intersections safer, which seems to be the case thus far.
"The feedback we've gotten is positive," said Capt. Linda Grisham of the police department's traffic division.
Judge William Alexander said of the tickets to come through court, 14 were dismissed for identity issues.
"Like where someone else was driving the car rather than the registered owner," he said.
Four tickets have been challenged in court and all were found guilty.
A little more than half of the tickets to come through municipal court have been paid, Alexander said, noting people have 60 days to pay their fines before a second notice is mailed out.
At $75 a ticket, that total comes to more than $44,000.
The majority of that revenue goes to ATS to pay for camera rentals and the ticketing service.
Money left over goes into the city's general fund.
"The point is to make the intersections safer, not (for) revenue," Grisham said

[ChunkyMonkey]

http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd103699/E98ed12a.jpg

[Marlin]

Brillant, on board smoke generator. Brillant..



[Abused]

[OneGuy67]

If you were to get assraped would you be thankful that they used lube or would you be pissed about getting assraped in the first place? Your question is a false dichotomy.


We certainly are going to disagree on this.

[OneGuy67]

Many people will trade all of their freedom for just a semblance of safety.

Our freedom is earned not just by veterans that die on the battlefield - it's constantly earned on the backs of people who die just living life. Freedom to shoot earned on the backs of those that die in firearm accidents. Freedom to eat 95% preservative hamburgers at a fast food chain earned on the backs of people who just die [LOL] but seriously, have you considered that government intervening any time it can save lives is a bad thing? We could save millions and millions of lives every year on a government mandated diet, while under house arrest with curfew hours (enforced by shooting on site) and arranged heavily medicated relationships.

I always cringe when people use the "it will save a life, and a life is invaluable" argument. Remember, they use that for firearms to....


Lastly, in my mind, any sort of automatic enforcement system is a clear and obvious 4th amendment violation. I don't care about any supreme court rulings, how can it not be. Why is it an officer has to follow various rules when running a speed trap to avoid "entrapment" type claims, but an automatic 24/7 camera that sends you a bill doesn't?


Not sure on what rules you are referring to regarding speed traps. Hasn't been an issue in the nearly 20 years I've been a cop.

Entrapment regarding speed? To be considered entrapment, the officer would have to give you the vehicle, tell you how fast it goes, point you in the direction to drive and tell you kick in the ass in order to be considered entrapment.