View Full Version : I bought a used 1911 is it ok to use for CC
nathan0259
11-18-2010, 09:53
I bought a used Kimber Custom Tle/Rl... Is this ok to carry? Should I have a gun smith look it over and make sure everything is factory and safe and find out what the trigger pull is? I love the gun I'm only worried about the legal issues that might come if I ever have to use it.
ghettodub
11-18-2010, 09:57
I bought a used Kimber Custom Tle/Rl... Is this ok to carry? Should I have a gun smith look it over and make sure everything is factory and safe and find out what the trigger pull is? I love the gun I'm only worried about the legal issues that might come if I ever have to use it.
As long as a gun is reliable and fits you, it's ok to carry and there aren't any legal reasons not to carry a 1911 (unless of course you don't have a CCW).
My only thought is that if it's a full size 1911, it may be a bit of a pain to carry.
On having a gunsmith check it, that's not a terrible idea, but for me a big important part is making sure it is reliable, and that you've put a decent amount of rounds through it
Just my .02
KevDen2005
11-18-2010, 09:57
I bought a used Kimber Custom Tle/Rl... Is this ok to carry? Should I have a gun smith look it over and make sure everything is factory and safe and find out what the trigger pull is? I love the gun I'm only worried about the legal issues that might come if I ever have to use it.
What legal issues are you concerned about? As long as it is legally purchased I am not sure you should worry.
Is there something else you are concerned about?
I think he is wondering if he should see if it's has been modified in any way to make it A"more deadly" 1911. Lighter trigger etc. Just legality if it were ever used.
ghettodub
11-18-2010, 10:36
As far as I know, there is no legal change if the pistol has a lighter trigger, other than possibly being a dummy and accidentally shooting yourself if the foot or leg because the pull is too light.
TEAMRICO
11-18-2010, 10:48
Wear a BIG coat and drink lots of water while humping that hunk of metal around. Take breaks often and dont trip.
nathan0259
11-18-2010, 10:50
Wear a BIG coat and drink lots of water while humping that hunk of metal around. Take breaks often and dont trip.
Lol thats awsome! It's very cumfortable for me at least in my house... stupid CCW taking forever.
nathan0259
11-18-2010, 10:52
I think he is wondering if he should see if it's has been modified in any way to make it A"more deadly" 1911. Lighter trigger etc. Just legality if it were ever used.
This is what I was worried about. I have put about 500 rounds throught it I would say about 200 of them being hollow points That a buddy of mine reloaded for me. No problems what so ever.
I love the gun I'm only worried about the legal issues that might come if I ever have to use it.
The legal issues that will ensue if you ever have to use it are going to swamp any minor concerns about it having a possible trigger job.
I carry a 1911 every day (4"), and have carried a full size many, many days. After 10 years of this, I feel naked and walk funny without one. You'll get used to it.
I'll also add that if you don't have confidence in your ability to evaluate your own firearm, you might consider getting some more training, formal or informal, before you strap it on for real. I recommend you get with someone knowledgeable about 1911's and get the holes in your knowledge base filled.
If you filled out your location in your profile, someone around here might volunteer.
Byte Stryke
11-18-2010, 11:05
everyone is different... everyone has different tastes.
That being said, is the 1911 something YOU are comfortable carrying?
Its really irrelevant what I think you should carry...
The Gunsmith thing.
It never hurts to have a professional check the weapon for safe operation condition. If you are asking, its probably a good idea. If for no other reason than your own peace of mind.
The CCW Thing
Gawd... is it January yet?
Since we are kind of on the 1911 bit.
Anyone here have the mental block with the hammer back on a live round and the safety rubbing against you. I just picked up a brand new colt defender, feels great, shoots great and eats everything... I just have this issue with that hammer back. People tell me the safety won't go off "5years and I have never tripped a safety, and if it did the grip safety is there". Thoughts?
I was under the impression to buy a carry weapon you fell most comfortable with. A trigger job on a 1911 would not bother me, like said, if it was too light I would not want it. I personally would not worry about it, unless you sneeze and the thing goes off.
Is it January yet? Same boat there byte. Let's see who is first. My 90th day is Jan 30. Jeffco better get moving, haha.
Only way I ever carry is condition one, cond. 2 is just a foolish way to go IMO.
ghettodub
11-18-2010, 15:16
Is it January yet? Same boat there byte. Let's see who is first. My 90th day is Jan 30. Jeffco better get moving, haha.
I remember the wait for my CCW, ugh, that was the longest 90 days ever... But the day that Bob called me to tell me it was ready was a happy damn day
funkfool
11-18-2010, 15:30
Only way I ever carry is condition one, cond. 2 is just a foolish way to go IMO.
+1
Only one way to carry a 1911.
Condition 1 (http://jeffcoopersfivefactsof1911life.blogspot.com/2009/02/john-brownings-revolutionary.html)
Condition One And Only
Unless you are one of the unfortunates who is forced to wear a decorative pistol with an unloaded magazine, there are three possible conditions in which to carry your 1911.
Condition Three. Chamber empty, hammer down. This requires you to manually cycle the slide before firing. To return the gun to its carry position after firing, you have to drop the magazine, empty the chamber, drop the hammer, reload and reinsert the magazine, all without shooting an innocent bystander. Condition Three is the slowest-into-action of any method of carrying a 1911 and, as such, is a dangerous concession to those whose nervous systems are conditioned to revolvers whose hammers are always at rest when not in use and which are not equipped with the operator-controlled safety systems of the 1911.
Condition Two. Chamber loaded, hammer down. This requires you to cock the hammer with your thumb before firing. It also requires you to very carefully pull the trigger and lower the hammer over a loaded chamber before returning the gun to its holster. The technique for manipulating a Condition Two carry is best practiced out in the country in a freshly plowed field, where the bullets will not ricochet off the pavement or the occasional rock every time you re-holster your gun.
Condition One. Cocked and locked. Chamber loaded, hammer cocked, thumb safety on. This requires you to snick the safety down before firing and snick it back up when you’re finished. Simple. And as safe as any mechanical safety can possibly make a gun, which is to say as safe as is consistent with practical readiness. Condition One is the fastest way to get your 1911 into action, the least prone to mistakes, and therefore the only way to go.
Jeff Cooper
BPTactical
11-18-2010, 15:31
Only way I ever carry is condition one, cond. 2 is just a foolish way to go IMO.
We really need more info to make an educated decision on this one.
Is the 1911 a series 70 or a series 80? It makes a huge difference on carry mode. If. It is a series 70 the ONLY way to carry safely with a round clambered is cocked and safety engaged. I believe that is condition 1 IIRC.
If it is an 80 series with a CORRECTLY operating firing pin block then you have a bit of flexibility although I always carry cocked and locked if a round is chambered.
- have gotten into the habit of checking my thumb safety often when chambered. If you are a righty this is one place the ambi safety can work against you. If it does not detent firmly you can easily disengage if you bump it, hit it with the seatbelt etc.
Check your PM,s
I agree on condition one. Just a lot of training, and becoming more familiar with this 1911 again. So used to glocks. But when you think about it, in a sense glocks are condition one without 2 manual safeties. Seems like the more I read on the 1911 the more I see how safe they really are.
BPTactical
11-18-2010, 15:58
I agree on condition one. Just a lot of training, and becoming more familiar with this 1911 again. So used to glocks. But when you think about it, in a sense glocks are condition one without 2 manual safeties. Seems like the more I read on the 1911 the more I see how safe they really are.
Your Glock is not cocked until you pull the trigger. The majority of your trigger pull is dedicated to cocking the striker, very little of the pull drops the sear.
BuffCyclist
11-18-2010, 16:03
Reliability is the first thing to look for when choosing a concealed carry pistol. I was told that a good number to shoot before putting it into service is 150. If you can do that without any malfunctions, it's reliable enough to work when you need it. That testing helps a LOT if you can use the ammo you plan to carry, although that might not be possible if you plan to carry defensive ammo that can cost upwards of 50 cents to a buck per round.
The next thing to look for is to find one that FITS you, that is comfortable to shoot, as if the grip was made for your hand. If it's awkward to hold/shoot or you are unfamiliar with the platform it isn't a great idea to carry it. If you can't control the recoil, the chances of placing a second shot under stress on target is diminished.
As far as the 1911 thing goes, I will never carry a 1911 concealed for the fact of I'd forget to remove the safety before firing under stressful situations. Thats why I love my Glocks, because they work, everytime. That doesn't mean I won't own a 1911, but I won't rely on one as a concealed carry pistol. Open carry, why not, everyone likes showing off 1911s!
Ah, thanks. I was under the impression from a ccw instructor that glocks were in a grey area, but now it makes more sense. I love this colt defender, so I will do my best to get used to it. Kicking the safety has never been an issue as I have a lot of trigger time on full size 1911s. Just getting used to living with it, all the time. Hammer back safety on.
If you just carry while you're waiting for your CCW, the wait doesn't seem as bad.
funkfool
11-18-2010, 17:31
If you just carry while you're waiting for your CCW, the wait doesn't seem as bad.
Stuart!
Stuart!
Bad influence isn't he haha. Just joking
We all gotta wait.
Stuart!
I think perhaps he omitted the word "open" from his post....although that has its hazards as well depending on the locale
What better way to make sure you aren't printing? ;)
68Charger
11-18-2010, 18:57
If you just carry while you're waiting for your CCW, the wait doesn't seem as bad.
I did this, just not in public... I hosted a few parties at my house, carried the whole time... nobody noticed. Not even my family.
no, it doesn't cure any uneasiness you have when in public, but a year ago that didn't really bother you, right? otherwise you would have applied for your permit then...
on the 1911, if you're not going to bring it to a gunsmith, at the very least perform function & safety checks (in addition to firing 150+ rounds through it with your load you'll carry)
http://www.cylinder-slide.com/1911safetyck.shtml
http://www.coolgunsite.com/funcheck/function.htm
or my preferred one:
http://www.m1911.org/InspectionChecklist.pdf
I would not even load a 1911 that won't pass these tests... if it passes all these tests, then I wouldn't hesitate to carry it in condition 1, as long as the safety locks well, if you can disengage the safety too easily, I'd fix that before carrying (yeah, that's subjective- but you're the one that has to be comfortable with it)
You didn't even carry into a bank or the Taste of Colorado or anything? Just stayed home?
68Charger
11-18-2010, 19:38
You didn't even carry into a bank or the Taste of Colorado or anything? Just stayed home?
ok, I carried in the car, which doesn't require a permit- but helps with a comfort level in public... I didn't just stay home, but wouldn't carry when I left my property, unless I was in my car... I even parked my car on the street and walked unarmed into the USPS when I had to go there...
I'll plead the 5th on anything further- that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
BTW, what's the "Taste of Colorado" like? I don't get north of Castle Rock much
I wouldn't drive from Penrose to go to it. Actually, I honestly wouldn't go to it at all unless I was dragged to it. That's just me though. They pat you down at the entrance too. Unless you're white and carrying a baby.
68Charger
11-18-2010, 20:26
I wouldn't drive from Penrose to go to it. Actually, I honestly wouldn't go to it at all unless I was dragged to it. That's just me though. They pat you down at the entrance too. Unless you're white and carrying a baby.
LOL, you're giving ideas to terrorists...
that's pretty much what I thought when I saw the website for it... Only thing that I'm considering going to is Fogo de Chao in LoDo... been to a Fogo de Chao in Dallas... awesome experience!
TriggerHappy
11-18-2010, 21:06
Wear a BIG coat and drink lots of water while humping that hunk of metal around. Take breaks often and dont trip.
+1
Byte Stryke
11-18-2010, 21:44
Condition One And Only
Unless you are one of the unfortunates who is forced to wear a decorative pistol with an unloaded magazine, there are three possible conditions in which to carry your 1911.
Condition Three. Chamber empty, hammer down. This requires you to manually cycle the slide before firing. To return the gun to its carry position after firing, you have to drop the magazine, empty the chamber, drop the hammer, reload and reinsert the magazine, all without shooting an innocent bystander. Condition Three is the slowest-into-action of any method of carrying a 1911 and, as such, is a dangerous concession to those whose nervous systems are conditioned to revolvers whose hammers are always at rest when not in use and which are not equipped with the operator-controlled safety systems of the 1911.
Condition Two. Chamber loaded, hammer down. This requires you to cock the hammer with your thumb before firing. It also requires you to very carefully pull the trigger and lower the hammer over a loaded chamber before returning the gun to its holster. The technique for manipulating a Condition Two carry is best practiced out in the country in a freshly plowed field, where the bullets will not ricochet off the pavement or the occasional rock every time you re-holster your gun.
Condition One. Cocked and locked. Chamber loaded, hammer cocked, thumb safety on. This requires you to snick the safety down before firing and snick it back up when you’re finished. Simple. And as safe as any mechanical safety can possibly make a gun, which is to say as safe as is consistent with practical readiness. Condition One is the fastest way to get your 1911 into action, the least prone to mistakes, and therefore the only way to go.
Jeff Cooper depending on what I am carrying and where...(Note: I Currently only OPEN Carry in authorized areas/Municipalities as well as my motor vehicle.)
The Ruger .40S&W (http://www.ruger.com/products/p944/specSheets/3425.html)
Condition 1 v2.
Cocked and locked. Chamber loaded, hammer DOWN, thumb safety OFF.
This does not require a manual hammer cocking, nor does it require slide action. The trigger simply requires a slightly longer pull. The joys of true double-action :)
The XD .45 is in Condition one as stated above with exception of the thumb safety (of course)
I need to find someone local that will make a good solid IWB for my Ruger... that isn't a hater :P
nathan0259
11-18-2010, 23:00
I think he is wondering if he should see if it's has been modified in any way to make it A"more deadly" 1911. Lighter trigger etc. Just legality if it were ever used.
This was what had me worried.... I have full confidence in the gun, I know it will go band when I want it to and not when I dont want it to. I have confidence in myself with this gun. I'm no 1911 Jedi but I KNOW that this gun is safe. I just wanted to know if a gun has a light trigger pull if it would be used against me if I ever had to use it. This was all out of curiosity. I would never carry a gun I wasn't comfortable with and that I didn't have full confidence it.
I know it's a heavy gun thats part of why I got it. If I come to find it's too much gun for me to conceal I will have to go get a Sig P238. But it seems to conceal very well plus it's winter if I throw a coat on there is no chance it will be seen.
WOW you guys really took off with this question didn't you? I will be carring in condition one. I'm confident in myself and in my gun.
espAmerica
11-21-2010, 15:03
I just wanted to know if a gun has a light trigger pull if it would be used against me if I ever had to use it.
The simple answer is:
"everything can and will be used against you in a court of law....."
If the use of the weapon we deemed justifiable by the prosecutor and no Criminal Charges are filed the it should not be a problem. If and when a Civil Case is filed then anything is on the table.
Jack
hollohas
12-13-2010, 21:22
I carry a Kimber Ultra every day, condition 1. After spending countless hours on the range, using the thumb safety is simple muscle memory now. I don't even have to think about it anymore. Your thumb should be on that safety before your gun comes out of the holster. In fact, I am of the school of thought that your thumb should ride the safety even if that maybe a little old school now. If you spend enough time on the range you will never "forget" to disengage the safety in a stressful situation...your subconscious will do it for you.
Believe it or not, you will run into people in the CCW crowd that will give you shit for carrying a 1911. They'll tell you that the manual safety will cause you problems in a deadly force situation. Or that your all metal gun is too heavy and you won't carry it. Tell those people to get their heads out of their ass. There is a reason the 1911 has been carried as a defensive pistol forever. Those people have probably never owned, carried or trained with a 1911. Like other handguns, if you spend the time on the range and at home training then your choice of a 1911 as a carry gun will serve you well.
nathan0259
12-15-2010, 23:06
I actually got rid of this gun... It stopped extracting and I couldn't find parts for a new exctractor and when I called Kimber to get the slide replaced with an internal exctractor they wanted more than I was willing to spend. I have a Glock 17 that I carry for right now sense it's coldish and I can wear a jacket. I will be getting a 1911 again soon I just won't buy a uesd one. I want a Springfield but I may get a Taurus. I love 1911 but I could not carry that gun with any confidence. I think I just wanted a 1911 and jumped on the first one I came my way. Foolish me [Bang]. Thank you guys for all your input.
Honor Bound
12-16-2010, 17:17
When dealing with a unvalidated 1911, here's a good place to start...
http://www.cylinder-slide.com/1911safetyck.shtml
HB
We really need more info to make an educated decision on this one.
Is the 1911 a series 70 or a series 80? It makes a huge difference on carry mode. If. It is a series 70 the ONLY way to carry safely with a round clambered is cocked and safety engaged. I believe that is condition 1 IIRC.
If it is an 80 series with a CORRECTLY operating firing pin block then you have a bit of flexibility although I always carry cocked and locked if a round is chambered.
Actually no more info is needed. Series 70 or 80, you still have to overcome all three safeties to lower the hammer over the live round in the chamber. The hammer slips and you have an ND. Not an AD, an ND. It's an ND because you knowingly lowered the hammer onto a live round.
Now once the hammer is down in a series 80 then you are right, it's safer than a series 70. Unfortunately it's the going from cocked to uncocked that is where people can get into trouble.
ldmaster
02-04-2011, 20:03
I carry a fully forged Springfield around every day.
Back in "the day" I always had a problem with the little mouseguns carried by many. They give a HUGE fireball when they fire, they are less accurate and you lose velocity (and thus terminal ballistics suffers).
So why would I want a gun that was less accurate, killed my recoil control and was less than optimal for ballistics?
My other carry is a Glock 20 or 21, depending on mood.
There is no such thing as safe carry, only safe handling.
If you haven't done it already, do the dry fire from the holster thing. you NEED to get used to sweeping that safety OFF upon presentation to target from gun-ready or from holster.
I use a serpa mostly, but have a galco with a thumbstrap that goes under the hammer, same for my duty holster. I am always checking to make sure the safety is engaged with the serpa, nervous habit?
GOD I hate the old ND vs AD arguments. I've never figured that anybody argued the point except to try and prove that they were somehow smarter or more saavy than others.
If you meant to do it, it was intentional, if you didn't mean to do it it was accidental.
If you do something negligently, under the law, then you had an idea that what you were doing would PROBABLY result in something going wrong. Just by carrying a gun everyday I'd bet most people would consider ANYTHING that happened wrong to be "negligent" regardless of intent.
Carrying a gun with the hammer back? Well that's just plain foolish! Doesn't the news tell you that guns just "go off"? Don't you see it happen all the time in the movies?
so the AD/ND argument is a non- issue for me because I have no desire to label any person the way others do.
By that standard, a LOT of children born would be born to negligent parents (remember NO accidents!) And a car that hits a patch of ice and hits a sign is negligent, because, gee, you must have known that an accident would result if you hit ice too fast.
I lower the hammer all the time on a live round, I do it at the range when running drills. If the gun goes off because I slipped, am I negligent?
But it's important to some people to feel superior, so be it. I'd rather train someone to avoid any accident, and then train them some more. Then back it up with a few more safety rules to keep any accident from creating harm. Then train them some more.
I don't personally like series 80's the firing pin safety was a solution in search of a problem, a need created by politicians who knew little about guns, and an industry hell-bent on k-tou'ing to said politicians to make a buck.
I'd only suggest that you consider a paddle style holster or a fanny pack, once you get your CCW you will find opportunities to store your gun when you go somewhere you can't carry, and if you don't have to remove your gun from the holster at ALL, then you can avoid any accidents. The majority of accidental discharges happen when you are holstering/unholstering and cleaning your gun. Eliminate as many opportunities as you can.
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