Bear Arms - Windsor, CO

[Jer]

Edit: my post/review was early on and before further dealings which is a small part of why they're not out of business w/o any reason or notifications given. Please disregard this glowing review of a new shop in Windsor that most of us which would have been a better source for the community.

I wanted to post a quick review on a new shop that opened in Windsor called Bear Arms. For those in Northern Colorado you owe it to yourself to swing by and check it out, especially for those who think Jensen Arms is a little... rough around the edges. You are greeted with a smile as soon as you walk through the door and everyone there is more than happy to help you out and answer any questions and you don't feel like your rushed or stupid for asking for something they don't have. They don't have as much inventory as Jensen's which is to be expected for a brand new shop but are MORE than willing to order anything that you want that they don't have. That being said they have quite a bit of inventory and quite a lot more than I expected they would have. What they do have is priced very competitively with the lowest prices I've seen both local and online. I really liked this shop and have already used them for a FFL transfer and I plan to make some more purchases soon. So stop by and check them out and help support a new local source for our hobby!

[jmg8550]

I agree, they are great people. They treat you good even if you are just browsing. I made some recommendation on what they should carry in stock and they listened, didn't just blow me off. People really should try them out.

[Sunshine]

Could not possibly say enough about how great this shop is! What impressed me most was the quality of customer service, I was greeted upon entering and everyone introduced themselves.

Immediately when you walk in you feel your buying a new toy in your living room. They have a great selection of everything you could imagine from the little .22 you learned to shoot on, up to high end tactical firearms and accessories. To top it all off they have excellent pricing.

Now we all hate the seemingly endless wait for background checks, not here. There are comfy seats and a T.V. and to top it all off theres even free Buck Hunter in the corner.

This shop is an hour and a half each way for me, but this now where I will purchase all of my future big boy toys.

THANK YOU BEAR ARMS!

[jreifsch80]

Good to hear I was just over there to check them out monday but they are closed most mondays I discovered, fortunatly I only live at most 10 minutes away. I was looking to order in a few nodak receivers ;)

[kejam]

Didnt see this one on here yet....Windsor Colrado. Nice selection, rifles, handguns, gear. Extremely nice people and prices are solid all around.
Worth checking out if you are in N. Colorado.

Strip mall right off main street.

[Great-Kazoo]

Didnt see this one on here yet....Windsor Colrado. Nice selection, rifles, handguns, gear. Extremely nice people and prices are solid all around.
Worth checking out if you are in N. Colorado.

Strip mall right off main street.

do a search and they are listed.

[xring]

I will compare bear arms to Jensens. First I will state that I have no problem whatsoever with Jensens. In fact Bob has proven to me that he will stand behind the products he sells. Jensens is a great resource for the Northern Colorado Shooting Community! I have noticed it seems a little tense there at times and when I go there im all business, in and out.

Before Mike had his heart attack, left this world, and Cache La Poudre rifleworks closed I enjoyed going there very much. I would get a coffee from the hippy shop next door ogle the coeds and go next door to Cache La poudre. Mike always had his classical music going and there was always great discussions. Mike was always willing to hear peoples views. There was always new stuff showing up guns, mountain man stuff, trade beads,tomahawks, skulls, and lovely junk. The shop was one of a kind, it reflected the creation of a man with values extremly rare nowadays. When Mike died I was struck by the loss of three things, the man, his creation and contribution, and a place to hang. More than one person realized after Mikes death that Cache La Poudre had been largely responsible for the creative frontier old west feel that had been old town Fort Collins. Without it it was not the same.

Bear arms is certainly not the hideway that Cache La Poudre was. Some things are once in a lifetime. However I noticed something at Bear arms. Everyone was Happy! The dogs were happy owner happy salespeople happy customers happy. All the customers were way comfortable smiling and enjoying themselves including me. The salespeople were knowledable and low key. I havnt felt that comfortable shopping for ANYTHING in a long time. Prices were comparable to Jensens or Orchard. Stock was incredible, and in that aspect, modern firearms it was ten times better than Cache La poudre. That kind of shopping experience is indeed rare nowadays and something to be cherished.

[Great-Kazoo]

I will compare bear arms to Jensens. First I will state that I have no problem whatsoever with Jensens. In fact Bob has proven to me that he will stand behind the products he sells. Jensens is a great resource for the Northern Colorado Shooting Community! I have noticed it seems a little tense there at times and when I go there im all business, in and out.

Before Mike had his heart attack, left this world, and Cache La Poudre rifleworks closed I enjoyed going there very much. I would get a coffee from the hippy shop next door ogle the coeds and go next door to Cache La poudre. Mike always had his classical music going and there was always great discussions. Mike was always willing to hear peoples views. There was always new stuff showing up guns, mountain man stuff, trade beads,tomahawks, skulls, and lovely junk. The shop was one of a kind, it reflected the creation of a man with values extremly rare nowadays. When Mike died I was struck by the loss of three things, the man, his creation and contribution, and a place to hang. More than one person realized after Mikes death that Cache La Poudre had been largely responsible for the creative frontier old west feel that had been old town Fort Collins. Without it it was not the same.

Bear arms is certainly not the hideway that Cache La Poudre was. Some things are once in a lifetime. However I noticed something at Bear arms. Everyone was Happy! The dogs were happy owner happy salespeople happy customers happy. All the customers were way comfortable smiling and enjoying themselves including me. The salespeople were knowledable and low key. I havnt felt that comfortable shopping for ANYTHING in a long time. Prices were comparable to Jensens or Orchard. Stock was incredible, and in that aspect, modern firearms it was ten times better than Cache La poudre. That kind of shopping experience is indeed rare nowadays and something to be cherished.


Nice, you had what i have found to be SOP for BA. Until you posted this Mike was a distant memory, CLP was the place to browse just because, their guns that would be traded in or consigned was great. Some too high for what one was selling new, then that NIB High Standard set, 1 in 22LR and the other in 22mag. I still have the 22mag AND the box.
Thanks for the flash back.

[trlcavscout]

So i called them today about doing an FFL transfer on a new SIG i bought on gun broker because i saved $230 over retail and got a holster and 3rd mag. He said he would not do a transfer on a NEW gun only on used. I understand he wants his markup but now he lost the transfer fee as well. I paid $40 in Greeley and still saved $190 over retail and got a free holster and 3rd mag. Just a heads up. [Beer]

[blacklabel]

I can understand him wanting the chance to sell new but there are definitely better, cheaper options for transfers out there.

[bryjcom]

He pretty much won't transfer a gun if he can get it for you as well or he'll charge you a increased transfer fee.

If its something that he can't get then he'll transfer at normal price.

[jmg8550]

Yeah they pulled the same crap on me. Wanted to transfer a Savage 111. He said he could get it through his vendor, so no transfer. I didn't want to pay more to get it at Bear Arms. They have completely lost my business. That isn't the first time they have done that kind of crap to me. But that's a completely different story.

Went to Stan's Gun Repair in Greeley, he was happy to do a transfer for me. It cost $25, and was a smooth, hassle free transaction. I was even running late from work and he waited for me.

[Graves]

He pretty much won't transfer a gun if he can get it for you as well or he'll charge you a increased transfer fee.

If its something that he can't get then he'll transfer at normal price.

That Lambo ain't gonna pay for itself. [Evil]

[bobbyfairbanks]

It is a business, he is trying to make money. Lots of gun shops have the policy not to do transfers on weapons that they carry or can order for you.

[USMC88-93]

I have been nothing but completely unimpressed with Bear Arms from its inception Both its actual store front and the interactions I witnessed with their staff were at best laughable.(one Mans personal opinion don't read anything more into it than that). They are a last resort business for me.

Everyone has a bad day or five and I may have just caught a few bad days but first impressions can stick with you. I would not steer anyone away from trying them out but they are at the bottom of my list as far as suggesting gun-shops.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

It is a business, he is trying to make money. Lots of gun shops have the policy not to do transfers on weapons that they carry or can order for you.

If the guy already bought the firearm why not make the $30-40 and move on? Seems silly.

[Goodburbon]

If the guy already bought the firearm why not make the $30-40 and move on? Seems silly.

Yep. Make money on the transfer or make no money. Which do you choose? They seem to have made their choice over and over again.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Imagine if they turned down one every other day? Safriday will be along soon to help me with the math. Thanks in advance!

[bryjcom]

I'll admit it does seem weird to refuse to do a transfer. I would think that the more transfers you do the more people realize that they need a new cleaning rod, or some ammo, or more mags, or what ever, for their newly acquired purchase.

Oh well, If you don't like it then don't use them.

[wax_job]

Imagine if they turned down one every other day? Safriday will be along soon to help me with the math. Thanks in advance!

Assuming they are open 6 days a week, every other work day would be 156 days. At $10/tranfer that is $1560/yr... At $40/transfer its $6240/yr... Since I don't know the "usual rate".

But to me, that isn't the point. As a business owner, you want the traffic... The potential money that you would make on a holster that you mark up %100 is the money that you should care about, not the transfer fee.

[glucas]

Guys. I will transfer in anything in you want. I just want the opportunity to price match your online findings before you go straight to gunbroker. Dont call me after you bought something online that I have sitting on my shelf and want me to transfer it in for you. If I cant match the price, I will let you know and I will happily transfer the firearm in for you. Doesnt seem unreasonable to me. If you have an issue talk to me directly and I will do my best to make it right. Transfer fees are $25 by the way. A little communication goes a long way to establishing good long term relationships, and THAT, you cant just order on the internet. I WANT to earn your business.

Gary Lucas
Owner of Bear Arms
970.795.0999

[jmg8550]

I did ask your employees if the business could transfer a firearm BEFORE ordering. They wouldn't match the price, and also would not do the transfer.

You lost my business. Sorry, strike three for you.

[glucas]

Sorry to hear that. Cant win 'em all. You certainly didnt talk to me and your original post says you called after you bought it.
So i called them today about doing an FFL transfer on a new SIG i bought on gun broker because i saved $230 over retail and got a holster and 3rd mag. He said he would not do a transfer on a NEW gun only on used. I understand he wants his markup but now he lost the transfer fee as well. I paid $40 in Greeley and still saved $190 over retail and got a free holster and 3rd mag. Just a heads up. [Beer]

For everyone else, like I said, if you have a problem ask me directly. I WILL make it right.

[sroz]

Guys. I will transfer in anything in you want. I just want the opportunity to price match your online findings before you go straight to gunbroker. Dont call me after you bought something online that I have sitting on my shelf and want me to transfer it in for you. If I cant match the price, I will let you know and I will happily transfer the firearm in for you. Doesnt seem unreasonable to me. If you have an issue talk to me directly and I will do my best to make it right. Transfer fees are $25 by the way. A little communication goes a long way to establishing good long term relationships, and THAT, you cant just order on the internet. I WANT to earn your business.

Gary Lucas
Owner of Bear Arms
970.795.0999


Really???:rolleyes:
Then again, it is your business. Good luck with that.

[Great-Kazoo]

Really???:rolleyes:
Then again, it is your business. Good luck with that.


At least Gary takes the time to respond instead of ignoring an issue, like some vendors.
He's taken care of me and other gun owners. Either way there are plenty of ffl's in NOCO to patronize.
I know 1 ffl in ft fun was doing $20 transfers. Since he had such a good flow of traffic, what did he do? That's right raised it from $20-25.

[bryjcom]

Really???:rolleyes:
Then again, it is your business. Good luck with that.


Yeah, I don't know how that is a bad response??

Seems like a perfectly good response to the issue at hand. He could have just ignored this or even worse started getting defensive like another vendor did on another board.

I've done business with Gary and have had no problems. Seems like a straight up guy.

[Goodburbon]

I understand what the issue is but the way he's looking at it is a little odd.

Apparently his business model is:

1. Sell in store stock and make money on his mark-up.
2. special order and make money on his mark up
3. do a transfer and make the transfer fee, but only on items he can't order or stock.
4. Turn away someone who wants to give you $25 for filling out some paperwork on the principle that you should've made your mark up. Thus instead of making mark up, choosing to make zero because it's insulting to make $25.

In the end it's his choice how to run his business, but running people away who want to give him $25 because he could've made more doesn't seem wise, at least to me. He's probably losing a lot more than $25 for a transfer per customer in the long run because of the bad experience the refusal leaves in the customer's mind. His response explained his position clearly, and I respect it and the respectful manner in which it was posted. I don't think it's the best position business wise, but it's not my business to run and I wish him the best of luck.

[sroz]

I understand what the issue is but the way he's looking at it is a little odd.

Apparently his business model is:

1. Sell in store stock and make money on his mark-up.
2. special order and make money on his mark up
3. do a transfer and make the transfer fee, but only on items he can't order or stock.
4. Turn away someone who wants to give you $25 for filling out some paperwork on the principle that you should've made your mark up. Thus instead of making mark up, choosing to make zero because it's insulting to make $25.

In the end it's his choice how to run his business, but running people away who want to give him $25 because he could've made more doesn't seem wise, at least to me. He's probably losing a lot more than $25 for a transfer per customer in the long run because of the bad experience the refusal leaves in the customer's mind. His response explained his position clearly, and I respect it and the respectful manner in which it was posted. I don't think it's the best position business wise, but it's not my business to run and I wish him the best of luck.

A friend who's an ffl considered doing the same thing. I advised him otherwise for this very reason. A good number of folks will go elsewhere based on that business decision. I say again, have nothing against Bear Arms and wish them the best.

[funkymonkey1111]

Seems like an incredibly stupid policy, but hey, Bear Arms is free to look stupid to whoever they want.

[xring]

Guys. I will transfer in anything in you want. I just want the opportunity to price match your online findings before you go straight to gunbroker. Dont call me after you bought something online that I have sitting on my shelf and want me to transfer it in for you. If I cant match the price, I will let you know and I will happily transfer the firearm in for you. Doesnt seem unreasonable to me. If you have an issue talk to me directly and I will do my best to make it right. Transfer fees are $25 by the way. A little communication goes a long way to establishing good long term relationships, and THAT, you cant just order on the internet. I WANT to earn your business.

Gary Lucas
Owner of Bear Arms
970.795.0999

Seems clear to me. Appreciate your commitment to the customer Gary. Overall I think it would be in your business's best interest to do transfers without criteria but thats your call. Personally I dont see what the issue is, its not hard to find a FFL to do transfers. Some do some dont. If Im going to do a transfer ill do it with a dealer that doesnt mind hopefully by email using a JPEG FFL. If I want to go to a stocking dealer thats relaxed with reasonable prices Ill go to Bear arms. A dealer that does gunbroker transfers yes thats a nice thing. Many dealers who willingly do gunbroker transfers dont have Garys overhead in inventory or location. A personal relationship with a dealer that stands behind his product has value. Yes you can save significant money on gunbroker - sweet score! but Gary is running a stocking shop. If he wants to set criteria for tranfers thats his choice, If you dont want to give him your business because he sets terms for transfers thats your choice. Personally if i want taco bell ill go there if I want Carinos ill go there. Both serve food but provide a very different product.

[bryjcom]

Gary, it seems that some of the employees are not fully aware of your policy. You say you will transfer in anything we want but this thread is the second report that I have heard, saying that your guys are refusing to do transfers on new guns.

Just thought I'd point that out.

[SouthPaw]

Gary, it seems that some of the employees are not fully aware of your policy. You say you will transfer in anything we want but this thread is the second report that I have heard, saying that your guys are refusing to do transfers on new guns.

Just thought I'd point that out.

I think that is the case. Gary has always treated me and my family right whether it be for guns, ammo or accessories. Do you really think he will be the cheapest on EVERYTHING? All he is asking is give him a chance to see if he can match it and if he can't he will try to make it right to EARN your business.

[beast556]

Some people you can never make happy always something to bitch about no matter what. The few times I have been to bear arms they have always been nice andhave a good selection of products to choose from.

[Eggysrun]

I understand what the issue is but the way he's looking at it is a little odd.

Apparently his business model is:

1. Sell in store stock and make money on his mark-up.
2. special order and make money on his mark up
3. do a transfer and make the transfer fee, but only on items he can't order or stock.
4. Turn away someone who wants to give you $25 for filling out some paperwork on the principle that you should've made your mark up. Thus instead of making mark up, choosing to make zero because it's insulting to make $25.

In the end it's his choice how to run his business, but running people away who want to give him $25 because he could've made more doesn't seem wise, at least to me. He's probably losing a lot more than $25 for a transfer per customer in the long run because of the bad experience the refusal leaves in the customer's mind. His response explained his position clearly, and I respect it and the respectful manner in which it was posted. I don't think it's the best position business wise, but it's not my business to run and I wish him the best of luck.


I paid $531 out the door for a brand new Gen 3 glock 19, prove me wrong someone can find the same thing for less when including shipping and transfer fees. Bear Arms is not one of those gun stores that rip you off with high mark ups, same with their ammo prices too.

[funkymonkey1111]

I paid $531 out the door for a brand new Gen 3 glock 19, prove me wrong someone can find the same thing for less when including shipping and transfer fees. Bear Arms is not one of those gun stores that rip you off with high mark ups, same with their ammo prices too.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_43/products_id/73204/Glock+19+Compact+9mm+Auto+Fixed+Sights

plus $25 transfer has got you beat. That took me about 10 seconds to find and frankly didn't look at other retailers.

if you're in south denver, J&J has transfers at $20

[Eggysrun]

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_43/products_id/73204/Glock+19+Compact+9mm+Auto+Fixed+Sights

plus $25 transfer has got you beat. That took me about 10 seconds to find and frankly didn't look at other retailers.

if you're in south denver, J&J has transfers at $20

Buds price listed is the cash discount price. So if you add 3% that's $515

[funkymonkey1111]

Buds price listed is the cash discount price. So if you add 3% that's $515

So pay cash. Problem solved.

[SouthPaw]

So pay cash. Problem solved.

Don't forget to add the transfer fee. Another $20-$30 and have to wait a few while it ships from buds. I would rather pay the difference and have it the same day and support a local business.

[funkymonkey1111]

Don't forget to add the transfer fee. Another $20-$30 and have to wait a few while it ships from buds. I would rather pay the difference and have it the same day and support a local business.

right. did you actually read the post where i quoted the price plus the transfer fee?

[Great-Kazoo]

right. did you actually read the post where i quoted the price plus the transfer fee?



It still runs $500 range from buds. The $531 includes tax. For a few dollars more i prefer to give my money to a local business.
That is something we hear about in threads here, how we need to support our LGS. So save a few dollars and order from Buds or buy local. That is a personal choice.

You forgot to mention the Glock listed only comes with 10 round mags. Add a few 15 round mags and you're in the high $5-600 range now. Yep sure saved a few dollars.

Bear Arms has taken care of me since they opened, done me right on NFA items as well as transfers. You either like them or you don't. YMMV.

This could be worse, it could be jensens.[Coffee]

[funkymonkey1111]

[quote=jim;558370]
You forgot to mention the Glock listed only comes with 10 round mags. Add a few 15 round mags and you're in the high $5-600 range now. Yep sure saved a few dollars.

Bear Arms has taken care of me since they opened, done me right on NFA items as well as transfers. You either like them or you don't. YMMV.
[quote]

fair enough on the 10 rounder. i did a search and grabbed the first link i saw. i haven't gone back and looked for 15 rounders. However, allegiance to local dealers wasn't part of the challenge--it was can you beat that price online, and yes, i think you can--even paying the transfer. Now, like you, if the difference in price amounts to $6, I'd pull the trigger locally.

And, I've bought from Bear Arms before (having driven up from Englewood), and sung their praises on this and other forums. None of that matters, really, when determining how ignorant their policy is because there are plenty of folks that aren't that petty that are alot closer to me that i can deal with.

[Great-Kazoo]

[quote=jim;558370]
You forgot to mention the Glock listed only comes with 10 round mags. Add a few 15 round mags and you're in the high $5-600 range now. Yep sure saved a few dollars.

Bear Arms has taken care of me since they opened, done me right on NFA items as well as transfers. You either like them or you don't. YMMV.
[quote]

fair enough on the 10 rounder. i did a search and grabbed the first link i saw. i haven't gone back and looked for 15 rounders. However, allegiance to local dealers wasn't part of the challenge--it was can you beat that price online, and yes, i think you can--even paying the transfer. Now, like you, if the difference in price amounts to $6, I'd pull the trigger locally.

And, I've bought from Bear Arms before (having driven up from Englewood), and sung their praises on this and other forums. None of that matters, really, when determining how ignorant their policy is because there are plenty of folks that aren't that petty that are alot closer to me that i can deal with.

Understandable.

[Big John]

Bear Arms is no longer in business. The end...

[funkymonkey1111]

I was thinking about Bear Arms the other day, wondering if they were still around

[Great-Kazoo]

I was thinking about Bear Arms the other day, wondering if they were still around

I'm going to try and swing by there today, see if there's any signs or notice. Haven't been in there for some time, since most stuff is on line or through gun forums trading post..

[Great-Kazoo]

After I talked with Kazoo last night I checked. No more website, no more facebook page. Its funny how someone could start out so strong, get to doing well, then fuck over his customers and lose a great business.

Damage Factory needs to get up there and fill the void. Windsor doesnt have any other gun store that I know of, Greeley doesnt either as far as Im concerned.
shit house guns in greeley are ripoff artists selling stuff that looks like it came from the flea market at retail prices, you could buy from anthony, but why?, whats left Garrettsons? fine for softball uniforms, not so good for guns.

Actually, their last ad i saw in the paper. They has AK's from $550- 599. Which for those who know Zek Garretson and family is giving them away. Especially considering they were never anything but "Hunting & Archery" for guns at a $$$$ price point

[SouthPaw]

I know they have been super slow and that business was not doing so hot. Gary was headed back to the Virgin Islands yesterday so maybe he just decided it wasn't worth it anymore.

[Jer]

Good. POS. This guy is a con by every definition of the word.

Shortly after starting this thread I went to S.H.O.T. with the owner whom I've known (not real well) for some time. Basically friend of friends and we'd hang out from time to time for happy hour or similar type get togethers. That trip was a nightmare because his true colors came out. I footed the bill for the hotel, flight and a few other accommodations for not just myself and my buddy but him as well as his buddy. I footed the bill and organized the entire trip for four and my buddy was the ONLY one to offer to pay me for his portion the moment I informed him of the details & totals. The owner of Bear Arms, aka Mr Lamborghini and his good friend didn't offer once to pay me and even started an ugly argument at 3:00am DURING THE TRIP over the prices of items which they hadn't yet even paid me back for. Demanding receipts at 3:00am (which I produced via email) for package deals and pricing they couldn't have got for themselves only booking travel for two. Instead, I put my research time into getting us all a really good deal on a trip for four and used that as leverage to further negotiate either better deals or upgrades. I even got us the Presidential Penthouse Suite at the Planet Hollywood which employees can't even stay at because they reserve it for the conglomerate's ownership team and head's of state and VIP's that fly in from all over the world. 1,700sq ft with 6 flat panel TVs, floor to ceiling glass walls with strip view in both bedrooms and living room, dining room & kitchen, a dining room table that seats 8 and even a 120" projector screen that comes down out the ceiling. The only catch was that the day we got there we had to trade in our two separate suites that I got for us and move our belongings. They refused from the morning we arrived and began all this other weirdness with him claiming he couldn't pay me because his accountant needed to move funds from one account to another and..... blah blah blah. Sure had enough money to party it up the entire time we were there but couldn't satisfy his debts. I have no doubt he was trying to piss me off to get out of the bill I footed for the entire trip. Whatever.

I feel guilty that I was the one who started this thread and I never came back to amend my post to warn people away. I honestly forgot that I was the thread starter and every time I got an email alert I just read the new posts with gritted teeth convincing myself to just let it slide. Had I scrolled up and saw that I was the one who actually created this thread before all of that and talked so highly I would have edited that so that others would have known better than to deal with such a crew.

Sounds like how this guy rolls & I have zero doubt his shady dealings have something to do with a popular business and model failing.

So, if anyone out there has a chance to do business dealings with Gary Lucas or his partner in crime Joel Elena... don't. Here's another funny story: Bear Arms was MY idea. That's right. His pie in the sky dream years ago was to start an exotic sports car rental company. Hell, I still have the business cards he created for hit before the economy turned. Then, one night over drinks at Old C's on Harmony in Fort Collins I was telling him about my idea to open up a firearms shop that could give Jensen Arms some competition. My idea was that if that business could run such profit with seemingly the world's worst customer service than surely a similar establishment that was more technology advanced with better service could thrive. Gave him all sorts of my good ideas and it wasn't too long after that I discovered from mutual friends that he was going to run with my idea. I'm just glad to see that so many others saw through the BS and shadiness w/o me even having to head that effort and turning the other cheek.

Sometimes karma takes a while to come around but come around it does.

[Great-Kazoo]

Good. POS. This guy is a con by every definition of the word.

Shortly after starting this thread I went to S.H.O.T. with the owner whom I've known (not real well) for some time. Basically friend of friends and we'd hang out from time to time for happy hour or similar type get togethers. That trip was a nightmare because his true colors came out. I footed the bill for the hotel, flight and a few other accommodations for not just myself and my buddy but him as well as his buddy. I footed the bill and organized the entire trip for four and my buddy was the ONLY one to offer to pay me for his portion the moment I informed him of the details & totals. The owner of Bear Arms, aka Mr Lamborghini and his good friend didn't offer once to pay me and even started an ugly argument at 3:00am DURING THE TRIP over the prices of items which they hadn't yet even paid me back for. Demanding receipts at 3:00am (which I produced via email) for package deals and pricing they couldn't have got for themselves only booking travel for two. Instead, I put my research time into getting us all a really good deal on a trip for four and used that as leverage to further negotiate either better deals or upgrades. I even got us the Presidential Penthouse Suite at the Planet Hollywood which employees can't even stay at because they reserve it for the conglomerate's ownership team and head's of state and VIP's that fly in from all over the world. 1,700sq ft with 6 flat panel TVs, floor to ceiling glass walls with strip view in both bedrooms and living room, dining room & kitchen, a dining room table that seats 8 and even a 120" projector screen that comes down out the ceiling. The only catch was that the day we got there we had to trade in our two separate suites that I got for us and move our belongings. They refused from the morning we arrived and began all this other weirdness with him claiming he couldn't pay me because his accountant needed to move funds from one account to another and..... blah blah blah. Sure had enough money to party it up the entire time we were there but couldn't satisfy his debts. I have no doubt he was trying to piss me off to get out of the bill I footed for the entire trip. Whatever.

I feel guilty that I was the one who started this thread and I never came back to amend my post to warn people away. I honestly forgot that I was the thread starter and every time I got an email alert I just read the new posts with gritted teeth convincing myself to just let it slide. Had I scrolled up and saw that I was the one who actually created this thread before all of that and talked so highly I would have edited that so that others would have known better than to deal with such a crew.

Sounds like how this guy rolls & I have zero doubt his shady dealings have something to do with a popular business and model failing.

So, if anyone out there has a chance to do business dealings with Gary Lucas or his partner in crime Joel Elena... don't. Here's another funny story: Bear Arms was MY idea. That's right. His pie in the sky dream years ago was to start an exotic sports car rental company. Hell, I still have the business cards he created for hit before the economy turned. Then, one night over drinks at Old C's on Harmony in Fort Collins I was telling him about my idea to open up a firearms shop that could give Jensen Arms some competition. My idea was that if that business could run such profit with seemingly the world's worst customer service than surely a similar establishment that was more technology advanced with better service could thrive. Gave him all sorts of my good ideas and it wasn't too long after that I discovered from mutual friends that he was going to run with my idea. I'm just glad to see that so many others saw through the BS and shadiness w/o me even having to head that effort and turning the other cheek.

Sometimes karma takes a while to come around but come around it does.

WELL................... if you weren't spending so much time over on that other site, you could have informed us, earlier [LOL]


Shelves (have been for some time) empty, only thing there are some misc accessories for who knows what.

[Jer]

WELL................... if you weren't spending so much time over on that other site, you could have informed us, earlier [LOL]


Shelves (have been for some time) empty, only thing there are some misc accessories for who knows what.
Yeah, we'll blame it on that. You don't know how many times I nearly created a new thread to warn everyone but decided to take the high road and be thankful I never put myself into position to be taken for more by him.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yeah, we'll blame it on that. You don't know how many times I nearly created a new thread to warn everyone but decided to take the high road and be thankful I never put myself into position to be taken for more by him.

DUDE, you're too easy.

[Irving]

Jensen's just doesn't smile enough for you and you never miss an opportunity to drag them through the mud, but this chump burns you for what I assume is thousands of dollars and you don't even mention anything?

As punishment you should burn both your palms on the stove, then drive over to Jensen's and buy a months worth of bandages from them, with cash, and smile as hard as you can the whole time.

[Jer]

Jensen's just doesn't smile enough for you and you never miss an opportunity to drag them through the mud, but this chump burns you for what I assume is thousands of dollars and you don't even mention anything?

As punishment you should burn both your palms on the stove, then drive over to Jensen's and buy a months worth of bandages from them, with cash, and smile as hard as you can the whole time.

It has nothing to do with Jensen not smiling enough for me and everything to do with them overcharging me in a situation where I basically had little to no out and then making it seem like they were doing me a favor when they offered to discount that overcharge slightly after I brought it up repeatedly. They then proceeded to attempt to sully other well-known and trusted industry partners to the end of slightly higher profits on a few NFA items for themselves. The list goes on and extends back years but I won't bring that up because I don't have to. I don't shop there and occasionally mention that I don't as a bit of a tongue in cheek warning to others who may not know.

In the end I was able to recover what was due to me (after some repeated attempts and BS excuses) financially and after much debate decided that I would simply call it a day on the topic in an attempt to move on. It was far more personal than business dealings and therefore wasn't laundry I was wanting to air or get into detail on. The only hope was that the long string of those he had burned personally and professionally would find the light of day and he would sink his own ship. As I already stated, I do fill guilty for not editing my first post in this thread which I would have had I remembered it was me who started the thread. Those that have talked to me in person can tell you that I pretty much buy online exclusively now and use FFL's because the LGS options in the area aren't worthy of my business for various reasons.

For the record, I also don't shop at Liberty Arms for less personal reasons that involve some of the same thing that Jensen Arms did to me (they actually had the same canned response in regards to the industry partner mentioned earlier) but I wasn't a long-term customer who was known by first name by all of the employees so it was far less personal. To me, the Jensen Arms thing felt more personal because of the long time business relationship that existed between us. I spent many years as the 'Jensen Arms Apologist' whenever people would bring their customer service into question when few others would. I even met with the new owner before hours to try give him an opportunity to explain his side and I mine and give him a chance to make it right and he still didn't. Bridges burned can be forgiven but never forgotten. As far as I'm concerned I never even crossed the Liberty Arms bridge.

[Irving]

I know exactly what you're talking about, because I've read all those threads, but there is no way I wasn't going to rib you after this admission.

[Jer]

I know exactly what you're talking about, because I've read all those threads, but there is no way I wasn't going to rib you after this admission.

I deserved it.

[SouthPaw]

The only hope was that the long string of those he had burned personally and professionally would find the light of day and he would sink his own ship.


Funny that you say. Remember when his yacht sank after three days of buying it lol.

Gary has always been good to me and I have hung out with him times for happy hour drinks, or the like. Back when they first opened, we had talked about me working there to manage the store while he was gone. In the end, I saw the writing on the wall. I think that is why him and Brady got along so well. Their 'business' are toys to them. Sink or swim, I really feel like they could care less. They were great when they first opened up but anymore 'good' gun stores are hard to come by. Like you, I find it so much easier to buy all my stuff online. I have two suppressors in jail right now from a local dealer, but I will not be using him again. I have had to do all my own foot work on it and honestly, I have hard time trusting others with my paperwork and follow ups.

[Jer]

Funny that you say. Remember when his yacht sank after three days of buying it lol.

Gary has always been good to me and I have hung out with him times for happy hour drinks, or the like. Back when they first opened, we had talked about me working there to manage the store while he was gone. In the end, I saw the writing on the wall. I think that was him and Brady got along so well. Their 'business' are toys to them. Sink or swim, I really feel like they could care less. They were great when they first opened up but anymore 'good' gun stores are hard to come by. Like you, I find it so much easier to buy all my stuff online. I have two suppressors in jail right now from a local dealer, but I will not be using him again. I have had to do all my own foot work on it and honestly, I have hard time trusting others with my paperwork and follow ups.

Yeah, I do recall that and I would be lying if I said that my first knee-jerk reaction wasn't of fraud being involved.

[Great-Kazoo]

I have hard time trusting others with my paperwork and follow ups.


RULE #1 IN NFA: If you want it done right do it yourself. This way IF something goes south, paperwork wise. There's no one to blame but yourself.
It also keeps time frame down when the person at the shop FORGETS TO CONTACT YOU WHEN THE PAPERWORK COMES BACK DENIED !


AS for the former gun store. Yes when it's run as someone's hobby. Like any other hobby they eventually lose interest.

[SouthPaw]

I have hard time trusting others with my paperwork and follow ups.


RULE #1 IN NFA: If you want it done right do it yourself. This way IF something goes south, paperwork wise. There's no one to blame but yourself.
It also keeps time frame down when the person at the shop FORGETS TO CONTACT YOU WHEN THE PAPERWORK COMES BACK DENIED !


AS for the former gun store. Yes when it's run as someone's hobby. Like any other hobby they eventually lose interest.

My paper work was good. Getting him to send it is was another story. Then when the check wasn't cashed for four or five weeks, I kept having to ask him what was going on. After asking him enough times he finally called to find out that they did not like that my check and forms were dated different (or at least that is what he told me). Silencershop makes it stupid easy to buy from them now with their 'Powered' dealer option.

[brutal]

After reading this, I realize how blessed we are to have guys like Tim @DangerLee Industries (https://www.ar-15.co/forums/221-DangerLee-Industries-LLC)on this end of town.

[Chanceforit]

Does anyone know what they did with all their inventory? I had purchased a suppresser which they had in the store and was just waiting for the paper work to go through. I am wondering I you guys have any idea what happened to it or where it would be.

[Great-Kazoo]

Does anyone know what they did with all their inventory? I had purchased a suppresser which they had in the store and was just waiting for the paper work to go through. I am wondering I you guys have any idea what happened to it or where it would be.

Here's the # you need to call ASAP . Going to wager they never sent any paperwork to the ATF / NFA branch. They have your money, you're SOL. Unless there's other things the feds want to bring the owner back from the V.II for.
When you call have the serial number of the item you paid for. If not, there's not much they can do.

BATFE/W.Va. phone numbers:
(304) 616-4500
(304) 616-4501 (fax)

[MAP]

Does anyone know what they did with all their inventory? I had purchased a suppresser which they had in the store and was just waiting for the paper work to go through. I am wondering I you guys have any idea what happened to it or where it would be.

As per a former employee, the ATF is expediting pending form 4s.

Mike

[Irving]

After the ATF helps you, make sure you swing by their Facebook page to thank then.

[Chanceforit]

Thanks for your help. I sent in the paperwork myself back in October so I know that at least got done. I tried calling the BATFE but all they do is transfer me to a voice mail box that is full. I guess I will just keep trying to call until I get to someone that can help me.

Once again thank you guys for your help

[JohnnyEgo]

I drove by the storefront today because it is adjacent to our local donut shop, which made me think of this thread.
Not to beat a dead horse, but I am so glad this place is out of business, even though it was right next door to my house.
Gary either didn't know or didn't care how to manage or fund a successful gun shop.

In the course of three years, these fools begged for me to hook them up with some friends in the industry, then spurned all the opportunities they begged for because of 'cash flow issues'.
These same geniuses forgot to sign not one, but two of my NFA forms.
And then there was the suppressor that time forgot; a Surefire can I bought in another state that took them nearly a year to notify me it had been transferred to their shop, after first accusing the gun store I bought it from of not actually sending it.

Prior to the great Magpul price run-up that first started to really clue people in, I used to talk about how frustrated I was with this shop, and I would feel like I was the bad guy. Eventually, I just quit, except to vent to Jim at every opportunity. There were some decent people in that shop who seemed to want to do right, but in the collective sense, that whole place was a train wreck from day 1.

[Great-Kazoo]

I drove by the storefront today because it is adjacent to our local donut shop

MR. YO'S [Beer]

which on a way OT item.

Originally was called Mr. Yo Yo's.

BUT............................................... ....... They received a cease & desist order from some law firm. Informing them their client was using that name and did not want Anyone confusing the doughnut shops

Which is real sad, considering the shop telling them to stop using Mr YoYo's is in bumfuk OKLAHOMHA Hell i know i'd confuse them [facepalm]

[JohnnyEgo]

Not to get even further off topic, but the Dunkin Donuts move to Windsor is one of the greatest examples of the positive effect of capitalism and competition in the doughnut economy. Prior to Dunkin's arrival, I'd show up at Mr. Yo's on a random weekday at 8:00 AM, and they would either be closed or out of doughnuts. Dunkin moved in, and all of the sudden Mr. Yo's started being open more consistently, producing more and new varieties of doughnuts (all hail the Cro-nut!), and in general being a place where you could reliably find a doughnut at 8:00 AM on a Thursday morning. I vastly prefer Mr. Yo's to Dunkin Donuts, but I am forever grateful for their arrival in our small town. Perhaps what Bear Arms really needed was a real gun store to have opened a block away.