Thoughts? Scope first or rifle?

[coop68]

so i am just about finished with my AR build all i need to complete it is a UBR and maybe a troy battle grip than paint/coat it my self which i plan on doing later.

so I'm looking forward to the next gun and i been wanting to get a bolt .308 for long distance/precision shooting for a while. The rifle i have had my eye on is the remington 700 police in .308. with 26 inch 1/12 twist rate barrel and HS precision stock and aluminum bedding. i have thought about savage, howa, and a few other companies, but i just like the 700. the cost of this rifle is around 799.99 if im lucky to find it for that and up too 950.00 ish retail in Colorado what i have seen. i am going to try and pro-deal this from remington since i work at dicks sporting goods part time we can get some good deals, but it is a Pain in the ass to get ahold of remington to see if i can even get it alot of run around and red tape[Rant1].

The scope i think i want to get is a Leupold Mark 4 LR/T M1 either the 6.5-20x50 Between $836.25-952.50 or the 8.5-25x50 between $900.00-1035.00 in the mil-dot or TMR can't make my mind up and if my budget allows maybe the illuminating radical which is the higher price. i can get one scope at 50% off suggested retail price which is the above prices after the discount.

so i am considering getting the scope first as i can get a decent deal on it right now while i am working and have the money? or try and get the rifle? from reading posts an so forth most say go with good glass when getting into long distance and precision. i have been competing in High power service rifle matches and have attend camp perry the last two years. i started when i was 16 as well with small bore rifle as practice/ learning the basics. i am currently 21 and i just received my Master Classification couple of weeks ago for high power across the course. which I'm pretty stoked about only one more "high master". [Coffee] i have been mostly in the iron game, but would really like to get into some scope stuff as well. basically trying to figure out a direction i want to go. i have asked about buying factory vs building. i am thinking i should start out by just buy factory and when i wear out the barrel buy something nice to upgrade it way down the road.

any thoughts would be appreciative!



coop

[OgenRwot]

If you can get a smoking deal on a piece of glass now I would say go that route. Obviously the cost of the rifle will go up over time but so will the glass, especially with inflation coming.

[cms81586]

My suggestion is to get the Remington SPS-V in .308. I believe it's Dicks that runs the package deal ...like $500-$550 for the rifle and a scope (cheapie), rings, and a base. Get the rifle...Ditch the optic/rings/base and sell those. That will bring the cost of the rifle down to about $400-$450 ish. From there you can buy a proper base and rings (Badger/Near MFG...) and still be under what you're looking at paying for a 700 Police. The rifles are the same. Identical barrel/trigger/action. The difference is the stock. The SPS-V stock is cheap but will hold you over until you can find a good stock that you like...and allows you to get shooting earlier. Go for the rifle first so you can get it set up and all you have to do is find your smoking deal on a scope and pick that up as well. On that note...don't buy rings until you know what height you'll need...buy those last after the scope.

If you're content with the stock on the 700 Police and you can live with that then just pick up the police. I'd personally save the money. If you're not dead set on Remington....Savage is the best rifle out there under $800 right now. It'll shoot sub-moa out of the box and the trigger is far better than the new Remington X-Mark triggers. The Savages are ugly as sin but they put them in decent stocks now and it's worth looking into if you really want an accurate rifle. If you're worried more about looks get the Remington.

[Tim K]

I'm not a big fan of Leupy for the long range game, assuming you're planning to dial for elevation. I had a 8.5-25 MK 4 that was so bad that they replaced it after failing to fix it twice. My experience is not uncommon. If you're going to be serious about it, you might consider a NightForce. It's more money, I know, but I found it to be money well spent.

If I were you, I'd buy the 700 now. If you can't afford the right glass, go find a used Millet TRS-1 or equivalent to get you shooting. It'll sell for what you paid when it's time to upgrade. If you choose rings and tube diameters carefully, you might be able to use the rings again.

[BPTactical]

I will toss 2 cents in.
Rifle choice is all yours-get what works for you and your budget.
Remington-tried and true, what lots of folks consider the standard in a bolt gun. Plenty of aftermarket goodies available and capable of uncanny accuracy. To get that uncanny accuracy you will have to get some work done to it-count on about 5 bills of truing and accurizing work to really eek it out.
Savage- "Ugly" to some (Chris[Tooth]). Very capable rifle out of the box with the best factory trigger. If you feel the need to get it worked on it is generally cheaper as not as much needs to be done to true them up. Barrel swaps are cheaper and can be done at home. After handling a bunch of both and looking at them through a Smith/machinist's eyes I think Savage puts out a better from- the- box product.

A great point brought up on optics- You can get a Millet or Super Sniper to get your feet wet to start and get some range time before you decide just what you NEED in a scope. Get what works for your eyes. I don't like Leupold optics-they don't work well for my eyes but I love a Nikon.

As far as which to get first, the rifle. You could throw on a 100.00 Tasco and start punching paper or steel. Trigger time is what you need and get your technique down. If you can shoot good groups with a cheapie scope think what you can do with good glass.

Besides if you get the scope first all you can do is look through it and drool out of the corner of your mouth....

[Graves]

+2 on the SPS-V, same setup as the P but you're not stuck on paying for the HS stock that'll likely bore you later.

[coop68]

good points i appreciate it. i guess i need to look through some of the scopes some more and see what i like before i go off and spend the money. really need to check with remington to see what kind of pro-deal i could get from them if any. maybe even savage as well.

[rtr]

Buying the gun first makes sense as having glass and no gun doesn't make sense. So get the gun and whatever glass you can afford. Then upgrade the glass when you can.

[C Ward]

There are way more important things than imige clarity on a long range scope . Being able to see clearly is important but first and formost it is a weapons sight and repeatability is the name of the game .

Read this ,
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-equipment/
and ,
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-optics/
and ,
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-shooting/

Leopold isn't the top of the food chain anymore like the early 90's . If your gonna spend real money on a piece of glass look at Nightforce or better and IIRC Nightforce has a pro staff program .

[cms81586]

When it comes to optics...I love my Leupold Vari-X III LR M3 (Old version of the MK4 LR/T M3) and I'm used to it because we have them at work. I like it because it offers 1MOA elevation clicks. That allows you to get to 1000yds with one turn of the elevation turret and you won't lose count of your rotations.. It's fast to adjust as well and will get you to any come up you need to in a second or two. It's always been repeatable on my TRG-22 and clarity is great. I'm going to send it back in to Leupold for a reticle change to the TMR. It just has a Duplex right now.

People don't like Leupld much any more but I picked up my scope used with the box and four cams for $500 from a local shop and it didn't even have ring marks on it. For what I got I consider that a deal. Nightforce/USO/S&B/Premier are all top notch optics but will cost you a lot of money. On a budget I'd suggest the Leupold or SWFA's line that used to be called the Super Sniper from Tasco. Tou can find slightly used MK4 LR/T M3's for good prices. Even new ones aren't too bad. Don't waste your money on the Illuminated reticle. You don't really need it. You should be looking at low or mid range optics. That means you're going to be spending between $450-500 for whatever the new "Super sniper" is called...to $900-$1000 for a used Nightforce.

For your first precision set up I do not recommend spending a bunch of money on your optics. I didn't say skimp and go cheap but keep it under a grand. Use the money you save to either buy a reloading set up or buy ammo and get shooting. Practice is what it'll take to get better at it...not fancy $1500+ optics and rifles. Best of luck and let us know what you do!

CMS

P.S. Savages really are ugly....but function over form every time! [Tooth]

[Hoopty]

+ 1 for Savage, you can find them with some custom work already done for the price you might pay for a 700 Police...

Another good scope option is IOR Valdada. They are pretty high priced but great deals can be found on used optics if you look around. I really like the clarity and the reticles, a lot of them also use the first focal plane. The Snipers Hide forums has a great for sale section. Here is a nice one! :D

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2203107#Post2203107

[Hoser]

If it was me...

I would get a Nightforce and put it off to the side. Stare at it for a while and get pissed off. The go buy a Remington 700 to put under it a few days later.

Kinda like how a buddy gave me a set of Redding 375 H&H dies and 100 pcs of virgin brass. It killed me having them sitting there all lonely and unused. So I went out and bought a 375.

Now as far as reality goes, get the rifle now and start shooting. Long range is a different animal and you might not enjoy it. Buying high and sell low isnt a good thing.

[mrfish83]

I can tell you what I did...

Picked up a 700 LTR used and put a super sniper ($300) scope on it. Decent base and rings of course. After over 1000 rounds down the pipe I realized which features of custom rifles and mid-high end scopes I liked. Since then I've upgraded to a Nightforce scope and I'm working on a custom rifle build based on the features I've liked.

My advice on the scope, get a used super sniper (150-200) to hold you over till you find out what you really like. Attend comps and try other peoples gear.

[The1andOnlyKC]

Must have both at the same time.

I'm not sure how you guys do it buying a rifle/scope and then buying the other half months or weeks later. I died waiting for badger to ship me rings and base when I bought my last 700. I had the scope and rifle sitting there but nothing to put them together for two weeks.

Im like hoser, I need it now, and none of this stuff two uppers and only one lower. Hell no they all need their own optics/sights their own lowers and uppers ect... no sharing.

[coop68]

looks like im getting the rifle first. we will see what kind of deal i can get since i work at a dicks sporting goods it all depends if they will let me pro-deal it meaning i get XX percent or money off the item. remington is just a pain to get in touch with basically i go direct to the company.

i have a Burris full-field 3-9x40 mounted on a AR QD A2 mount for my fixed carry handle gun, but i never use it. i can use that scope for the time being untill i get something i like. i bought it new for $2.65 that's right im not kidding!

as fare as shooting long range/ precision since i been in the high power game and small bore for the last 4 years i am no stranger to competitions. since in high power we shoot 200, 300 and 600 yards with iron sights, but i am still learning. i do reload and plan to with the gun no question about it.

i do appreciate all the advice and opinions. helps narrow down what i think i want to look at getting when it comes to scopes all i have really shoot with are Leupold's and a few other companies.

coop

[KC_]

I have both of those Leupolds.

The 6.5-20 is mounted on a TRG-22 in .308 and has great eye relief at any magnification. 20 MOA base and scandium rings by Near Manufaturing, US Optics Anti-Cant.

The 8.5-25 is mounted on a TRG-42 in .338 and the eye relief is fine at 25x - for me the scope is always a 25x, the eye relief changes are dramatic as magnification changes. 20 MOA base and scandium rings by Near Manufaturing, US Optics Anti-Cant.

Welcome to try them out at Pueblo West just about any Saturday that is not freezing.

[KC_]

I agree with many others..... the rifle, mount, rings, scope and ammo all MUST be within hours, suffering beyond hours is torture.....

[oinco]

I may suggest going the 260 remington or 6.5x47 route.....maybe you could even pro-deal just the receiver from Remington and build the gun with stock/barrel/trigger you are really going to like...and have enough for a SWFA SS scope secondhand.
My first rig was a 308.....love it, but the 260 is such a sweetheart that it really steals the thunder from most anything else incl 300wm...esp in $/shot. If you are doing well with iron sights to 600y, a sub-par scope will probably just plain piss you off.

[coop68]

I may suggest going the 260 remington or 6.5x47 route.....maybe you could even pro-deal just the receiver from Remington and build the gun with stock/barrel/trigger you are really going to like...and have enough for a SWFA SS scope secondhand.
My first rig was a 308.....love it, but the 260 is such a sweetheart that it really steals the thunder from most anything else incl 300wm...esp in $/shot. If you are doing well with iron sights to 600y, a sub-par scope will probably just plain piss you off.

yeah i have heard some good things about the 260 rem. i am just plaining on keeping the caliber to something simple on first go around. that is a good idea just to get the action some times it is just easy to get the whole gun idk i will check tomorrow and see if i can get ahold of any body the last time i tried i emailed and called left a message no answer that was months ago!

[jmg8550]

I have a Burris 3-12X50 XTR that I really like. There also is the XTR 4-16X50 that has a parallax adjustment out to 1000. It can be illuminated or not. For the money, they are very good and local.

+1 for the Savage. I don't think they are ugly at all. And for the price, they are pretty hard to beat.