POF vs. Larue vs. ACR (Advice needed)

[b3dd]

I grew up hunting, but currently I don't hunt. Used mostly shotguns for hunting. Shoot clay targets semi-regularly (again shotguns). Served 5 years as a Marine, but was Avionics so I only received basic training with the M16. I currently own a Beretta PX4 .40 S&W (home defense) and 2 shotguns. I have recently developed an interest in getting an AR. I have a buddy who has several, but he lives a good ways away so testing his out isn't an option. I had originally thought to get a 7.62/.308 win AR in case I ever did decide to go hunting with it; but have settled on the 5.56/.223 rem because it seems to be a much more universal/versatile system. Also prefer 16" for versatility, and max range I'm looking to cover is 300 yards. I am looking for versatility more than anything. In the event of SHTF/TEOTWAWKI I'd like to have a rifle that is suitable/adaptable to most scenarios, other than that it will just be a range toy. All research has been online, and none of it is fielded. So far I like the three firearms in the title, but I am looking for some advice that will help me decide. Sorry for the long post, just thought background info may assist any who were willing to advise. Thanks in advance

[The Rat]

Skip the POF. Larue is good. No hands on experience with the ACR so I can't comment there.

If you want to build yourself a good AR on a budget, pick up an upper from BCM (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com) and build from there. One of their standard 16" midlength uppers w/ BCG + a set of midlength MOE handguards would only be around $650 or so, for an upper on par in quality terms with Colt.

Or if you want free-float handguards with rails, they have basically every rail imaginable to buy on completed uppers.

Or you could just buy the AR I'm selling here (http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31821). ;)

[b3dd]

My buddy said the same about building it, but he advised RRA. I figure anybody who manafactures and builds these things professionally has got to be able to do a better job at selecting balanced components and putting them together than I can. Thanks though for the +1 on Larue.

[SA Friday]

Any 16" mid length gas system upper that uses a direct impingement system from w reputable company will work. Piston operated work, but not as popular or been around as long as the direct impingement, so parts are less available for them and a little more expensive. DPMS, Bushmaster, RRA, Colt, Larue, BCM, all good stuff. Higher end are JP and Sun Devil. It depends on how much you want to spend, but all of the list above work and get the job done. I would recommend them all, but JP is the best of them. Just make sure you go mid length on the gas system. It's easier to shoot and a he'll of a lot easier on the brass.

[hurley842002]

Pretty much any of the above suggestions would be good choices for what you sound like your planning on using it for. However, since I got my BCM I have a really hard time recommending anything else. I've shot everything from Bushmasters to many Colts, and for the money, IMO nothing compares to a BCM. I hate to throw the term Mil Spec around, but if that is something you are hung up on, you are going to get a 100% Mil Spec rifle when you buy a BCM, no corners cut.

I've only personally owned 2 AR's, one being a Complete Bushmaster, and my current AR being a BCM upper on the previous Bushmaster lower. The BCM fit and finish is hands down over and above that of the Bushmaster. I slapped a Colt carry handle on it, and had it zeroed within a dozen rounds, that wasn't the case with my Bushmaster, even being a complete from the factory rifle, it gave me a few issues (I believe it was a misaligned front sight).

Another thing to consider is what type of ammo are you wanting to shoot out of it? I rushed out and bought a 1:9 twist Bushmaster, and later on after getting into reloading realized I wanted to run 75 and 77 grain ammo through it, and would be better served with a 1:7 twist rifle. That was the main reason for the switch from the Bushmaster to the BCM, all the Mil Spec stuff was just a small bonus. Once I got the front sight issue fixed, I NEVER had any issues with the Bushmaster, it fired every time.

My BCM is a Carbine length, however like SAFriday said, I would seriously look into a mid length, that will likely be one of my next purchases. You are doing the right thing by asking around and doing your research, it will save you a lot of money down the road. Another site I may suggest is www.m4carbine.net It's a good resource for info on AR's. Most of the folks on that site however are High Speed low drag (or at least act like it), and form their opinions nearly 100% in conjunction with "the Chart", so take it with a grain of salt. Good luck in your search, i'm sure any of the reputable brands will serve you well, once you figure out exactly what you want.

[SA Friday]

Hurley, BCMs do rock. The are solid, but you really need to get the opportunity to shoot a JP, Sun Devil, or Firebird. They are simply a whole new level of AR.

[hurley842002]

Hurley, BCMs do rock. The are solid, but you really need to get the opportunity to shoot a JP, Sun Devil, or Firebird. They are simply a whole new level of AR.

I've heard a whole lot of good things about JP and Sun Devil, haven't heard as much regarding Firebird. I'd love to shoot some of their products (a billet Upper/lower combo from Sun Devil would be a great start). Maybe one of these days i'll get a chance to step into the next level of AR's, until then, my out of the box experience with BCM, and overall reliability has been second to none, that's why I must preach BCM in just about every "what would you recommend?" AR thread, lol.

[garette35]

I was trying to decide between the ACR and a LaRue a while back. I have wanted the ACR since it was the Masada.

I ended up getting a LaRue Stealth because I found a sweet deal on one. I can tell you that it performs exactly like they advertise, from a bipod at 100 yards all shots in a group the size of quarter, as far as reliability I have 500 rounds through mine and no complaints. I have no regrets, well one I might have bought the OBR instead but they weren't available then.

I held off on the ACR for three reasons; 1. the price reflects the R&D of getting the platform to market more than it does the finished product (JMHO), 2. it may take a few generations to get the bugs out (recalled in 2010, full auto when you are not trying to go full auto is not a good thing [UZI]), and 3. limited market parts and no aftermarket parts.

Hope that helps [Beer]

[Hoser]

I have owned lots of LaRue goodies over the years. Not one has let me down.

I liked my OBR so much I got an OBR Lite two weeks later...

POF makes good lowers. I have two. Cant comment on their complete guns as I have never owned one or shot one.

The ACR looks cool and I like the concept behind it. However, it is still a Bushmaster. Grrr. I wish Magpul would have got into bed with someone else. Anyone else.

The thing about the ACR and most piston guns, never fly the "A" Model. 5-10 years from now the bugs/kinks will be worked out.

[BadShot]

Another range of consideration would be Saber Defense (personally this is a hidden gem of a AR especially at it's reasonable price point) LMT, Daniel Defense and PWS.. PWS for a piston system if that's a realm of consideration. While what Hoser says has merit regarding the piston systems, the systems themselves are evolving to utilize the very proven AK action. I've got a PWS converted Saber Defense rifle that I'd say is as good as anything else in it's comparable price range ($1500-1800).

The ACR is a very interesting weapon system, but I'd again agree with Hoser, it needs time in the market and the rest of the production bugs worked out. Not to mention the accessories/after market parts vendors need to see enough value in ramping up spares. The same applies to the SCAR though we're starting to see several vendors step up to make aftermarket parts for the SCAR platform. Still woefully short on options in the replacement barrel arena for both.

You won't go wrong with the mid and upper tier manufacturers. With the expected use you've outlines, I think that any of the manufacturers that folks have thrown out will more than meet the need. Just don't expect to only have one AR by the way.

[thrashdady]

I have a 14.5 POF upper with a 9" rail, It is the best AR I have ever fired, hands down... Little heavy but I'm a big guy, so not a issue. The recoil seems to be less too, might be the weight or the piston not sure, I love the gun, no kidding 10 out 10. I beleive that a lot of the other weapons out there are all the same, I carried and fired a colt for 10 years, and like them but all the other ARs out there seem the same, besides barrels. I like the billet stuff too, to me it's a step in the future and there maybe bugs but, the nice thing about these weapons systems is they are modular. POF is a bit spendy to, but there will be no disappointment, promise!

[DocMedic]

I guess I should Chime in since I do own a ACR.

Larue, Don't own any products from them execpt a bunch of dillos :) but thats changing here soon.

Like Hoser, I have a POF lower That I use on my 3gun Rifle, never played with a full POF gun but i found the lower to be highly effective for 3gun.

As for the ACR, I love it. It is possibly the funnest rifle I own and I do bring it out for one of the 3gun local matches. I've talked to John at JP when I was at RM3gun this year and he said that they could easily convert the barrel lock system to one of there middy's, so that is a option i might do once BM releases extra barrels, plus theres strong talk about BM releasing a 300AAC blackout barrel later this year, so I might have to jump on it. Now heres for the bad, It did have a recall late last year, all that was replaced with was a stiffer firing pin spring and a titanium firing pin. it was igniting federal primers that were hand loaded not to spec causing 3 to XX amount of burst. There not cheap, the only reason I jumped on one was I was able to get dealer cost through the use of Military ID, + insurance and shipping still cost me $2050. Aftermarket is kinda niche if you ask me, the basic handguard takes all MOE attachments and the folding buttstock is really nice and strong. I have a PWS brake on it and works great. Heavy with the heavy barrel on it, which I don't mind. I've probably only put 3k+ rounds on the rifle last year its probably closer to 4.5k with everyone else shooting it, which I had no problem with.

But if I were to make a choice today on the 3 you listed i would choose... LaRue, but I would wait a min before you go out and buy one (or you don't have too :) ) LaRue is coming out with a more 3gun oriented rifle version of there OBR called the OBR predator. Basicly the OBR lite with a 0 MOA base and a lighter 18inch middy barrel. Alot of people dont like middy's for recoil, but a good muzzle break will cure that, best part according to the rep at Shotshow the New OBR predator will MSRP for $1450-$1650.

Just my .02 cents..