Knives - once and for all. LEOs? Lawyers?

[chrisguy]

Hi all,

Topic: what is and is not legal for knife carry.

Yes, I did run a search about this, and this thread (http://co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21596) came closest to providing some kind of answers.

Yes, I've also looked at the Colorado Statutes, RMGO and more. Here are the CRS excerpts most often cited:

18-12-105. Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon - unlawful possession of weapons. (http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-frame.htm&l=query&iid=73c12f07.334cadc6.0.0&q=%5BGroup%20%2718-12-105%27%5D)

(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully:
(a) Carries a knife concealed on or about his or her person; or
(b) Carries a firearm concealed on or about his or her person

2) It shall not be an offense if the defendant was:
(a) A person in his or her own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under his or her control at the time of the act of carrying; or
(b) A person in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who carries a weapon for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property while traveling; or
(c) A person who, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1 (http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-frame.htm&l=jump&iid=COCODE&d=18-12-105.1&sid=73c12f07.334cadc6.0.0#JD_18-12-1051), as it existed prior to its repeal, or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-frame.htm&l=jump&iid=COCODE&d=18-12-214&sid=73c12f07.334cadc6.0.0#JD_18-12-214);


Colorado - Criminal Code Section 18-12-101. Definitions...
(e) "Gravity knife" means any knife that has a blade released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force, that when released is locked into place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device...
(f) "Knife" means any dagger, dirk, knife, or stiletto with a blade over 3-1/2 inches in length, or any other dangerous instrument capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds, but does not include a hunting or fishing knife carried for sports use. The issue that a knife is a hunting or fishing knife must be raised as an affirmative defense. (j) "Switchblade knife" means any knife, the blade of which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in its handle... (a.3) "Ballistic knife" means any knife that has a blade which is forcefully projected from the handle by means of a spring-loaded device or explosive charge.

I have also seen someone here (recently, couldn't find that post though) claim that you can legally carry any blade (not switchblades/automatics/gravity knives obviously) concealed if the blade length is under that magic 3.5 inches.


I do realize that these laws are always subject to interpretation, and that in most cases it wouldn't be an issue unless something more obviously criminal had also happened, e.g. physical assault etc. Here are some of the questions I'm hoping to answer:

1. If you carry a swiss army knife or multi-tool type thing AND something with a larger single blade still under 3.5", concealed or not, are you asking for trouble since the former is more arguably a "tool"? Example: "You had the multi-tool on you belt and it has a blade of similar size, so why are you carrying another one?"

2. If you carry a knife that's well under the 3.5" limit purposefully concealed, like in/on a boot under your pant leg, on a neck chain, or in an IWB-type clip that's obscured by your shirt, are you breaking the law?

3. Is it true that a Colorado concealed carry permit doesn't cover knives at all? I've read that as an interpretation of the statutes many times, but am not aware of it being tested/confirmed in court.

4. Is a butterfly knife considered a gravity knife due to being opened/operated by "the application of centrifugal force"? Again have seen that as the interpretation, not sure of actual precedent. And either way, does the 3.5" rule apply to them?

5. Like I suspect many of you do, I typically have a one-hand, non-automatic opener with a blade under 3.5" clipped into a pocket. My preferred one has a "low profile" clip designed so that you really only see the end/top of the clip itself and the length of it that rides outside the pocket, not the body of the knife. I have another one that rides a bit higher, I guess you can more easily tell it's a knife. Am I potentially violating the law carrying the first one, e.g. if someone decided to make a claim like "oh that could easily be a clip on your keychain, I didn't know it was a knife"?

6. A knife with a blade under 3.5" seemingly doesn't qualify as a "Knife" as defined above. Accordingly, that claim about anything under that length being legal to carry - potentially even concealed - seems accurate... until you look at that part about "any other dangerous instrument capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds". Suddenly it sounds like a small pair of scissors or the leather punch/awl on your swiss army knife is a "Knife" since they can cut or stab, so, what... you're breaking the law if you have a swiss army knife in your pocket vs. a belt sheath? Anyone?

7. Ooh just remembered this one... Say you go camping in the mountains for a weekend. Not hunting, not fishing, just camping. No hunting or fishing gear on you. Can you carry a larger (over 3.5") fixed blade openly on your belt?


No I'm not accused of anything. [Angel2]

Just trying to learn what I can and equip myself with more knowledge on this issue. I know this comes up somewhat often, and I'm hoping this thread may be able to provide some definitive answers... could even end up a sticky...

Anyone have real answers? Are there real answers?

Thanks for reading!

[Irving]

I think if you are wearing something on your belt, it is considered open carry and length shouldn't be an issue.

[StagLefty]

This is a huge topic on blade forums all the time. I've questioned the CO knife law question several times and I'm still not entirely sure I understand the wording. I EDC a fixed blade concealed that's under 3.5" but I'm sure that may it questionable by a LEO if found. I hope someone on here can put to rest these questions. At least in some other states there's no question because carrying a concealed knife is illegal period. Let's see what the herd comes up with. [Beer]

[StagLefty]

I think if you are wearing something on your belt, it is considered open carry and length shouldn't be an issue.

Length-It all depends if it's being carried for sport-camping or hunting. Usually not questioned. But everyday carry ? That's where it can be confusing.[Beer]

[ChadAmberg]

Colorado CCW regulations specifically mention handgun. So there's no interpretation at all that says knives are allowed under CCW. And is also why rifles (of any type) cannot be legally concealed even when they can be physically concealed.

[jscwerve]

It is no longer CCW in colorado it is CHP (concealed handgun permit), therefore does not cover knives.

[chrisguy]

Sounds like StagLefty and I are on the same page here (and both left-handed!)... glad I'm not the only one confused by the laws at least!

Chad and jscwerve: I agree about CHP permits not covering knives, especially after the change from "CCW". Still wondering if this has been tested in court in the last 10 years...


I think if you are wearing something on your belt, it is considered open carry and length shouldn't be an issue.

Again, looking for real legal precedent to get answers. I too think that might be the case, but I'd rather know.

Keep it coming folks!

[Irving]

Length-It all depends if it's being carried for sport-camping or hunting. Usually not questioned. But everyday carry ? That's where it can be confusing.[Beer]

I've heard stories of people carrying swords around (unsheathed).

Chrisguy, I know, I know. Sorry for not knowing. I've asked around before and no one I've talked to knows for sure.

[BlasterBob]

Here's a picture of my Spyderco POLICE model, equipped with about a 4 1/4 inch blade. I am now wondering if it's legal to carry it clipped on to the inside of the pocket as shown, where it can plainly be seen and should sure not be considered as "concealed".
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/bobjan/Knifecarry002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/bobjan/Knifecarry001.jpg

[chrisguy]

Here's a picture of my Spyderco POLICE model, equipped with about a 4 1/4 inch blade. I am now wondering if it's legal to carry it clipped on to the inside of the pocket as shown, where it can plainly be seen and should sure not be considered as "concealed".

I'm with ya Bob... I'm not a lawyer or LEO, but with the 3.5-inch definition of a "Knife" above I'd also wonder if that blade is too long to carry period, concealed or not. Let's hope we can find some answers here.

[BlasterBob]

I'm with ya Bob... I'm not a lawyer or an LEO, but with the 3.5-inch definition of a "Knife" above I'd also wonder if that blade is too long to carry period, concealed or not. Let's hope we can find some answers here.

Chris, we're sure not getting very much feedback here on this particular thread. Thought we'd be getting a lot more opinions/views. If we don't hear more (and sensible ones at that) I may post my question up in the General Discussions section. [Rant2]
In the mean time, I'll continue carrying mine clipped on to my pocket just like I have for the past 12 to 15 years. At 74 years of age, I doubt if any LEO would think that I had any criminal intent.

[Clint45]

Hunting, fishing, camp, and utility blades of any length are exempt provided they are carried openly and the individual in question is at a campsite or in the mountains and can articulate a reasonable explanation for why he has it on his person.

State of Colorado specifically permits daggers and dirks as long as blade length is under 3.5", but Denver does not recognize this statute and measures the entire cutting edge rather than blade length. That would turn a legal 3" boot knife into an illegal 6" weapon.

If Denver police notice a pocket clip they can ask to see the knife so they can measure it. If blade length is a fraction of an inch over 3.5" some officers can and will arrest you for carrying a "concealed" knife even though it was in plain view. These cases are frequently dismissed when they go to court.

[StagLefty]

Like I posted earlier this particular subject seems to be very hard to define. Almost every time it's posted in any forum all the answers are vague because the wording of the law is also. Very grey area for definition JMHO

[BlasterBob]

Yes, this is really a gray area. I guess I'll just remove from my pocket, my Spyderco "Police" model with it's 4 1/4 inch blade especially when going in/through Denver.
I live out in the "sticks" and my big Spyderco is in constant use. I also volunteer to frequently drive a van load of disabled Vets to the VA in Albuquerque for their various appointments and if the van is ever in an accident, I like the capability of being able to quickly cut the required seat belts from my passengers. I really feel that a larger blade may be more efficient in cutting any jammed belts. That's my reason for using the big blade knife and I sure as hell have no criminal intent with my wearing it. Of course ALL knives along with any type of dangerous weapon is strictly forbidden in the VA Hospital so it remains in the parked and locked van.

[OneGuy67]

I am a LEO and I will tell you what the state law says and then tell you my personal experience and belief.

C.R.S. 18-18-101 discusses specific types of knives with blade lengths OVER 3.5 inches, but does not include hunting or fishing knives. They are inlcuded in an affirmative defense that can be brought up in a prosecution. Butterfly knives fall into the gravity knife definition.

Switchblade knives are discussed in CRS 18-12-101 and are illegal for possession. An affirmative defense can be raised by law enforcement members, members of the Armed Forces and National Guard on official duties or has a valid permit or licenser for possession of such a knife. I've never heard of a permit or license for a switchblade knife.

For the most part, Colorado law does not regulate or control any knives with a blade less than 3.5 inches.

As a LEO, I've never given anyone a hard time for having a knife on them unless the knife was used in a crime. I've never pulled out the ruler and measured, although the general rule of thumb is to use the width of your palm. I can't remember any officer I've worked with giving anyone a hard time about knives, again, as long as the knife wasn't used in a crime of some sort.

It is my unofficial belief that most law enforcement are not concerned with knives as long as they remain clipped or sheathed on a person that the officer does not deem a threat.

I know. It doesn't clear the air on the matter. Just my $.02.

[StagLefty]

What about a dedicated seat belt cutter Blaster ? I have one of these in my truck,it's from Gerber.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS384&q=gerber+seat+belt+cutter&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=5714077700435434929&ei=0lYrTcGdKIaisAOilqClBw&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB8Q8wIwAA#

Thanks for feedback Oneguy

[BigBear]

Question: Why are switchblades illegal? (Is it just the whole hollywood hype of only badguys, etc have them and are used for nefarious reasons?)

[OneGuy67]

What about it? Blades are less than 3.5 inches.

[TFOGGER]

The only issue I've ever had with a knife regarding LE contact was when I was riding as a passenger in a car, and we got pulled over. Driver was arrested on a warrant (bogus, as it turned out), and I was detained while they checked me and the car out. Officer from Golden PD asks if I have any "weapons or anything I should know about), I answered "just my pocket knife (Spyderco Police model). He takes it from me. About that time, I (and the car) come back clean, and are released from the scene. I ask if I can have my knife back, he replies that I have to go to the station to claim it from the property desk after he turns it in. I did exactly that the next day, no issues. I'm relatively certain that he was hoping that I wouldn't claim it, and it could be purchased after a period of time as "abandoned".

[OneGuy67]

Question: Why are switchblades illegal? (Is it just the whole hollywood hype of only badguys, etc have them and are used for nefarious reasons?)

I don't know. The legal resource book I use doesn't mention anything specific towards them or any case law that it has been challenged in.

[OneGuy67]

The only issue I've ever had with a knife regarding LE contact was when I was riding as a passenger in a car, and we got pulled over. Driver was arrested on a warrant (bogus, as it turned out), and I was detained while they checked me and the car out. Officer from Golden PD asks if I have any "weapons or anything I should know about), I answered "just my pocket knife (Spyderco Police model). He takes it from me. About that time, I (and the car) come back clean, and are released from the scene. I ask if I can have my knife back, he replies that I have to go to the station to claim it from the property desk after he turns it in. I did exactly that the next day, no issues. I'm relatively certain that he was hoping that I wouldn't claim it, and it could be purchased after a period of time as "abandoned".


Most agencies do not allow their employees to purchase any abandoned property due to conflict of interest. My old agency, we had an officer who was buying vehicles from the contract tow company after they were abandoned and he got into trouble for that as the agency felt there was conflict with officers towing vehicles and then obtaining them from the tow company. I agreed with that decision.

Most times in that situation you described, I would put the knife in the trunk and the person could retrieve it after they or I left. I did the same with mace and other such chemical sprays and I've seen other officers do similar in similar circumstances.

[Clint45]

As a LEO, I've never given anyone a hard time for having a knife on them unless the knife was used in a crime. I've never pulled out the ruler and measured, although the general rule of thumb is to use the width of your palm. I can't remember any officer I've worked with giving anyone a hard time about knives, again, as long as the knife wasn't used in a crime of some sort.

It is my unofficial belief that most law enforcement are not concerned with knives as long as they remain clipped or sheathed on a person that the officer does not deem a threat.


I'm glad to hear that the several cases I've heard about were exceptions to the rule rather than established policy.

[StagLefty]

What about it? Blades are less than 3.5 inches.

???? I was referring to BlasterBob's post about a seat belt cutter.

[OneGuy67]

???? I was referring to BlasterBob's post about a seat belt cutter.


Sorry! I mis-read your post. Apologies!

[TFOGGER]

I am a LEO and I will tell you what the state law says and then tell you my personal experience and belief.

C.R.S. 18-18-101 discusses specific types of knives with blade lengths OVER 3.5 inches, but does not include hunting or fishing knives. They are inlcuded in an affirmative defense that can be brought up in a prosecution. Butterfly knives fall into the gravity knife definition.

Switchblade knives are discussed in CRS 18-12-101 and are illegal for possession. An affirmative defense can be raised by law enforcement members, members of the Armed Forces and National Guard on official duties or has a valid permit or licenser for possession of such a knife. I've never heard of a permit or license for a switchblade knife.

For the most part, Colorado law does not regulate or control any knives with a blade less than 3.5 inches.

As a LEO, I've never given anyone a hard time for having a knife on them unless the knife was used in a crime. I've never pulled out the ruler and measured, although the general rule of thumb is to use the width of your palm. I can't remember any officer I've worked with giving anyone a hard time about knives, again, as long as the knife wasn't used in a crime of some sort.

It is my unofficial belief that most law enforcement are not concerned with knives as long as they remain clipped or sheathed on a person that the officer does not deem a threat.

I know. It doesn't clear the air on the matter. Just my $.02.

Colorado allows for the ownership of switchblades, just not carrying them out of the house. Unless you are LEO, Military, or have lost a hand or arm. I happen to be a dealer for Spyderco, and we are set up as a dealer for "restricted items". There's also some kind of odd regs under federal law concerning shipping of switchblades....

[OneGuy67]

Colorado allows for the ownership of switchblades, just not carrying them out of the house. Unless you are LEO, Military, or have lost a hand or arm. I happen to be a dealer for Spyderco, and we are set up as a dealer for "restricted items". There's also some kind of odd regs under federal law concerning shipping of switchblades....

Not according to state statute.

CRS 18-12-102 (2) states "As used in this section, the term 'illegal weapon' means a blackjack, gas gun, metallic knuckles, gravity knife or switchblade knife."

CRS 18-12-102 (4) states, "A person who knowingly possesses an illegal weapon commits a Class 1 Misdemeanor."

CRS 18-12-102 (5) states, "It shall be an affirmative defense to the charge of possessing a dangerous weapon, or to the charge of possessing an illegal weapon, that the person so accused was a peace officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or Colorado National Guard acting in the lawful discharge of his duties, or that said person has a valid permit and license for possession of such weapon."

TFogger, please show me in statute where it is legal to own in your house. It says possession and doesn't mention in or out of the house. Additionally, it is illegal for LEO and military to possess unless in the course of their official duties and that is an affirmative defense that can be brought up only in prosecution of the offense.

[BlasterBob]

What about a dedicated seat belt cutter Blaster ? I have one of these in my truck,it's from Gerber.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS384&q=gerber+seat+belt+cutter&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=5714077700435434929&ei=0lYrTcGdKIaisAOilqClBw&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB8Q8wIwAA#

Thanks for feedback Oneguy

I guess that's the problem that I have with that seat belt cutter. It is dedicated to perform that duty only, where my Spyderco is multipurpose (and of course is not my intention to utilize it for any illegal activities)

[newracer]

How about assisted opening knives? Switchblade or not?

[StagLefty]

Not according to state statute.

CRS 18-12-102 (2) states "As used in this section, the term 'illegal weapon' means a blackjack, gas gun, metallic knuckles, gravity knife or switchblade knife."

CRS 18-12-102 (4) states, "A person who knowingly possesses an illegal weapon commits a Class 1 Misdemeanor."

CRS 18-12-102 (5) states, "It shall be an affirmative defense to the charge of possessing a dangerous weapon, or to the charge of possessing an illegal weapon, that the person so accused was a peace officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or Colorado National Guard acting in the lawful discharge of his duties, or that said person has a valid permit and license for possession of such weapon."

TFogger, please show me in statute where it is legal to own in your house. It says possession and doesn't mention in or out of the house. Additionally, it is illegal for LEO and military to possess unless in the course of their official duties and that is an affirmative defense that can be brought up only in prosecution of the offense.

Now I'm even more confused- One time at a gun show I was looking at switchblades at a vendor's table with a LEO standing right beside me. I asked him if they were legal and he told me you could own it but not carry it ??? So how would you get it to your vehicle if you bought it ?? Like we've been discussing-confusing knife laws.

[OneGuy67]

How about assisted opening knives? Switchblade or not?

CRS 18-12-101 defines a switchblade as "any knife, the blade of which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in its handle."

I personally would not define them as switchblades.

[OneGuy67]

Now I'm even more confused- One time at a gun show I was looking at switchblades at a vendor's table with a LEO standing right beside me. I asked him if they were legal and he told me you could own it but not carry it ??? So how would you get it to your vehicle if you bought it ?? Like we've been discussing-confusing knife laws.


Statute's clear. You cannot possess. Not sure what else to say about it...

[Elhuero]

The only issue I've ever had with a knife regarding LE contact was when I was riding as a passenger in a car, and we got pulled over. Driver was arrested on a warrant (bogus, as it turned out), and I was detained while they checked me and the car out. Officer from Golden PD asks if I have any "weapons or anything I should know about), I answered "just my pocket knife (Spyderco Police model). He takes it from me. About that time, I (and the car) come back clean, and are released from the scene. I ask if I can have my knife back, he replies that I have to go to the station to claim it from the property desk after he turns it in. I did exactly that the next day, no issues. I'm relatively certain that he was hoping that I wouldn't claim it, and it could be purchased after a period of time as "abandoned".


I would have demanded a supervisor and raised a big stink until they gave me my property back or arrested me.

Heard somewhere that you can legally own a switchblade in CO if you have one arm, heh.

[StagLefty]

Heard somewhere that you can legally own a switchblade in CO if you have one arm, heh.

Depends-strong side or weak side ? [ROFL1]

[OneGuy67]

Heard somewhere that you can legally own a switchblade in CO if you have one arm, heh.

While that appears to make sense, it isn't written in statute as a lawful reason for ownership, nor as an affirmative defense.

[Clint45]

While that appears to make sense, it isn't written in statute as a lawful reason for ownership, nor as an affirmative defense.

The "One Armed Man" exemption is an affirmative defense under the federal "Switchblade Act" providing the blade is no longer than 3".

I'm not sure how or if that carries over to state law, but any cop or prosecutor who wants to harass a disabled person who owns a pocket sized OTF (originally patented as a safety knife) may need to consider another career.

[OneGuy67]

The "One Armed Man" exemption is an affirmative defense under the federal "Switchblade Act" providing the blade is no longer than 3".

I'm not sure how or if that carries over to state law, but any cop or prosecutor who wants to harass a disabled person who owns a pocket sized OTF (originally patented as a safety knife) may need to consider another career.

It is interesting that it is codified in the Title 15, Commerce and Trade, section of the U.S.C. and not in the criminal code, Title 18 U.S.C.

And it isn't an affirmative defense; it is simply a non-applicability. An affirmative defense is brought up to the court once charges have already been placed in court.

Personally, I would agree with you in your assessment of bothering a disabled person carrying such a knife.

[chrisguy]

Quite the can o' worms we opened here!

I offer a big THANK YOU to everyone that's replied, particularly OneGuy67 for his insights as an LEO.

Regarding the question of the hugely popular assisted-openers...

CRS 18-12-101 defines a switchblade as "any knife, the blade of which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in its handle."

I personally would not define them as switchblades.
Already said I'm no lawyer or LEO, but every interpretation I've found agrees with OneGuy67's. In nearly every state that has legislation about switchblades/automatic knives, there's some kind of similar wording about pressing a button, a lever, or some other kind of acutator that's not part of or attached to the blade itself. In the 80s knives with thumb studs and Spydercos exploded; the industry recognized the desire to at least be able to open a knife with one hand, and ways to do it legally. The current assisted openers are imho something of a loophole in the wording of the laws, but don't meet the existing definitions since there's no button, lever etc. Here's something related I just found:
http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=76&Itemid=150 [Thanks to StagLefty for reminding me about blade forums! /facepalm]

Then there are the "wave" openers or whatever they're called, too... with that scoop shape on the spine that you can catch on your pocket during the draw. No button, no lever, not even a spring... hmm.


Hunting, fishing, camp, and utility blades of any length are exempt provided they are carried openly and the individual in question is at a campsite or in the mountains and can articulate a reasonable explanation for why he has it on his person.

State of Colorado specifically permits daggers and dirks as long as blade length is under 3.5", but Denver does not recognize this statute and measures the entire cutting edge rather than blade length. That would turn a legal 3" boot knife into an illegal 6" weapon.

If Denver police notice a pocket clip they can ask to see the knife so they can measure it. If blade length is a fraction of an inch over 3.5" some officers can and will arrest you for carrying a "concealed" knife even though it was in plain view. These cases are frequently dismissed when they go to court.
Clint45 - I won't ask you to confirm you're LEO, judge, lawyer etc. on a public forum, but your statements have a ring of experience to them. Your last two are a good example of what I've heard about Denver being more strict, though it's good to hear about the dismissals.
A question I have back (to all) about the first part:
- Is fear of running into a mountain lion... or a bear, some psycho, a weed growing operation, maybe a really scary spider (http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05607.html)... a reasonable explanation for carrying a larger blade, say in a place where firearms are forbidden? I think several of the popular parks fall into that category, and I know of one up in Evergreen that explicitly bans CHP too. I just wanna know that I'm legit if I wear my Campanion (http://www.bladehq.com/item--KaBar-Becker-Campanion--4291) on the trails... crikey, has the word "camp" in its name!


I am a LEO and I will tell you what the state law says and then tell you my personal experience and belief.
...
Butterfly knives fall into the gravity knife definition.
...
Switchblade knives are discussed in CRS 18-12-101 and are illegal for possession.
...
For the most part, Colorado law does not regulate or control any knives with a blade less than 3.5 inches.
...
It is my unofficial belief that most law enforcement are not concerned with knives as long as they remain clipped or sheathed on a person that the officer does not deem a threat.
I know. It doesn't clear the air on the matter. Just my $.02.
I fully understand this is "unofficial", and your input is much appreciated sir, as is your service. I figured about the butterfly knives... any input about whether they're affected by the 3.5" definition? I'm thinking one might not be a "Knife" as defined in C.R.S. above, so is it even still a "gravity knife"? I know, I'm getting way too detailed probably... I do that, especially in Hypothetical Land.

[Ninja] <--- those are just big assisted-openers

[OneGuy67]

I fully understand this is "unofficial", and your input is much appreciated sir, as is your service. I figured about the butterfly knives... any input about whether they're affected by the 3.5" definition? I'm thinking one might not be a "Knife" as defined in C.R.S. above, so is it even still a "gravity knife"? I know, I'm getting way too detailed probably... I do that, especially in Hypothetical Land.

[Ninja]

By the strictest interpretation of the statute, anything with a blade length over 3.5 inches is illegal.

CRS 18-12-101(e) defines a gravity knife as "means any knife that has a blade released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force." ~ thus your butterfly knife that is opened by flicking it around and using centrifugal force to manipulate its opening (or its cutting you if the blade is reversed by accident).

Conversely, CRS 18-12-101 (f) defines a knife as "any dagger, dirk, knife, or stilletto with a blade over three and one-half inches in length, or any other dangerous instrument capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds, but does not include a hunting or fishing knife carried for sports use. The issue that a knife is a hunting or a fishing knife must be raised as an affirmative defense." They have charged people with using a screwdriver under this statute as the instrument stabbed and tore wounds.

I do believe that you would not have any problems if you are carrying your Campanion knife and contacted by park rangers, law enforcement, etc. and you articulate the reason for carrying it, which sounded pretty rational to me.

However, as with anything ever discussed here on this forum, there are those officers who are new, who are ignorant, who are fearful, who are plain dumb, that may question your carrying of such a blade length. I'm sure they are out there somewhere. As much as I try to educate officers I come across who's training is lacking, there are too many out there, too many new ones coming in and too many hypothetical situations to try to get them to reason through.

I apologize for my profession.

[Clint45]

- Is fear of running into a mountain lion... or a bear, some psycho, a weed growing operation, maybe a really scary spider (http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05607.html)... a reasonable explanation for carrying a larger blade, say in a place where firearms are forbidden? I think several of the popular parks fall into that category, and I know of one up in Evergreen that explicitly bans CHP too. I just wanna know that I'm legit if I wear my Campanion (http://www.bladehq.com/item--KaBar-Becker-Campanion--4291) on the trails... crikey, has the word "camp" in its name!


It shouldn't be a problem for you to carry a knife in a state park or national forest. But if you are stopped by a ranger and asked about it, DO NOT tell them you are carrying it for "protection." It is a camping tool, never a weapon.

[Irving]

I carry a knife with a 5" blade in my car as a part of my little BOB. It is usually in my passenger compartment. Will that ever be an issue?

[van7559]

a fawk I just cut myself![Stooge][Tooth]

[cstone]

a fawk I just cut myself![Stooge][Tooth]

How long was the blade? Was the blade assisted, button or lever activated?

Just saying.

[Irving]

Is the fact that there is no such thing as centrifugal force defensible in court?

[ldmaster]

First a story... I had my gun seized as potential evidence in a case that was dropped. I went to retrieve it from Jeffco SO and asked for the ammunition that was in the gun too. The property clerk smirked at me and said that they dont return ammunition EVER. I asked why and he gave me some excuse about not wanting to get shot. So I asked him if it were legal for me to carry openly/loaded and he said yes. With the smirk still on his face, I pushed the backup mag into the gun, loaded it and put it in my holster and smirked right back at him.

Ted Mink is VERY anti civilian in the sense that he doesn't think that we have inherent rights to self-defense, he was an elitist about this back then (only LEO's have the right to carry a gun) back when I had dealings with him and his personality, from stories I have heard, hasn't changed according to deputies and others I've talked to. So the deputy taking your knife and forcing you to go to the SO to pick it up, is PROBABLY an internal policy that Mink set up to mess with people. There is no law that says a temporarily seized item cannot be returned to a person after it has been found that there is no reason to arrest them. Sounds like "Minks Law".

All that being said, I'm LE (but as you have guessed NOT for Jeffco). The state law is pretty generic, in the sense that it mirrors language that came about circa 1968 when a generic set of weapons laws were adopted by MOST states in response to civils rights rioting after the murder of MLK, we owe, in part, many of our weapons laws to a racist knee-jerk reaction to those times. It also gave us the GCA of 1968 (backed by the NRA even) that kept a poor black man in Mississippi from buying an inexpensive rifle from a mail order company in another state, if he wanted a gun he had to buy it from a locally licensed dealer - and you can be sure the color of your skin counted in whether or not they'd sell you a gun to defend yourself from the Klan. The arbitrary length and switchblade thing came with that territory. ARgh, I almost went on a rant there... back on topic...

You don't have to worry too much about state law, what you have to worry about is Municipal Code. And you don't need to be a city or town to have a municipal code, a few counties use them too. Because we are "home rule" city's can and do pass more restrictive laws that are more restrictive than state limits.

You can see if your municipality uses a particularly POPULAR form of municipal code by checking at www.municode.com. They are like Lexis/Nexus in the sense that they actually have copyright to the code, and the municipalities actually LEASE the use of the majority of the code from the company. They also put in the individual codes adopted by various city council's or whatever.

If you do not find your city listed there, it does not mean your city doesn't have it's own municipal code covering you, they might have just written their own.

Why use municipal code? The answer is very very obvious. Money.

Let's say I write a ticket to a driver for a traffic offense and I use a county form to do it. If they are found guilty the fine gets split between the city I work for and the county it was written in. Way back when, in response to municipalities wanting more control over the fine money, the state legislature published something called the "Model Traffic Code" and it was essentially a copy of state motor vehicle laws that a city could adopt and use for it's own court system. It does not, in general, cover commercial vehicle stuff like semi's and hazmat. If you have a ticket issued by a city in Colorado, the citation of the violation will most likely start with "MTC-..." that stands for Model Traffic Code. If you get a ticket from the State Patrol or a regular county deputy, it most likely says, "CRS-..." or Colorado Revised Statutes. The city uses the "model traffic code" to prosecute people in their own municipal court and the city gets to keep 100 percent of the fine money, they don't have to share. MOST city's have adopted copies of most minor crimes (and some major ones) into their municipal code, again, because they get to keep all the money. For some cities, like Denver or Aurora or Lakewood, this fine money is a SIGNIFICANT source of income for the city. The only rule is that the maximum fine is 1000 bucks and/or 1 year in jail.

The City of Denver, for instance, has banned folding knives that can be (and I'm quoting here)

"opened with a flick of a finger".

Don't hop on how that's terribly vague - it IS vague. Officers in many jurisdictions can/will charge you with something simply because while they will SAY there is not a "quota" having to do with tickets, if an officer isn't "productive" he gets into trouble - how to tell if a cop is productive? How many municipal code tickets has he written? Don't break the law, and if you are legal in your locality, it doesn't mean that if you walk into downtown denver with your 4 inch folder you will still be legal. This was part of the big stink about CCW laws, in that Denver claimed that they could restrict CCW further than the state did, there was a big court battle over this - think "preemption". So while you're good with your pistol after they lost, nobody is going to pass a "Universal Knife" act and fight the same battle for your pocketknife.

I've always thought that there should be a section in the POST training currriculum that addressed municipal code, but there's not. County deputy sheriff's generally are ignorant of municipal code and it's ramifications (because they use the county court for their tickets). A municipal code violation for assault is CALLED a "code violation" (like a lawnmowing ticket) but it's reported the same to the CBI and FBI as a violent crime.

And in case you're wondering, YES, you can get a "ticket" for something like burglary - without being arrested and booked. Doesn't mean you dont go to court ultimately, but you dont get booked, which also means the officer doesn't have to waste two hours processing you at the jail, he can move on to write more cash producing tickets for his city. It also affects the FBI's crime index - careful tweaking of WHAT you charge someone with and your crime stats go down. One great variance with state code is the assault statute. According to state law there is no such thing as "battery" there is only assault, the intent or stated intent to harm someone is generally covered under "harassment". But in most muni codes you're find an "assault and battery" definition. Assault being the attempt or stated intent to do harm, and battery being the actual harm. I hate that by the way, threatening to "kick someone's ass" is actually assault... We get these definitions via the municode.com team, culling only the finest and picayune of the laws from major city's, we get them in a nice lump sum that isn't even addressed in state statute.

Don't count on the kindness of a cop in a city keeping you out of trouble just because you are a "good guy" - that spyderco police model you carry? It's considered an illegal weapon, and can be worth up to $1,000 to the city that prosecutes you for it's possession. Then you're stuck with a "weapons violation" and the sheriff pulls your CCW. Don't risk it.

[Byte Stryke]

ldmaster,
you me and OneGuy67 need to go have a Beer at the old man in Broomfield one evening.
you sounds as pessimistic as I do.

OK, Almost as much as I do [LOL]

[Clint45]

The City of Denver, for instance, has banned folding knives that can be (and I'm quoting here)

"opened with a flick of a finger".


That is the first I've heard of this.

By that definition, any folder with a thumbhole or thumbstud (roughly 80% of all lockblades) would be subject to said ban, regardless of blade length.

Do you have a link or could you please cut and paste the statute in this thread? Thanks.

[TDYRanger]

Don't count on the kindness of a cop in a city keeping you out of trouble just because you are a "good guy" - that spyderco police model you carry? It's considered an illegal weapon, and can be worth up to $1,000 to the city that prosecutes you for it's possession. Then you're stuck with a "weapons violation" and the sheriff pulls your CCW. Don't risk it.



Thanks for putting it so succinctly (It's the money stupid... basically). At the end of the day it's always about the money, safety second.

It really makes me want to kick someones as..... whoops don't want to assault anybody

IDMASTER; you sound like you take your seriously, and you put a lot of thought into what you do. Thanks for the hard work

[ldmaster]

I did put a link... Do the legwork! But you did say thanks, so.....

Sec. 38-119. - Certain knives unlawful.

(a)
It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, display, use, possess, carry or transport any knife or instrument having the appearance of a pocket knife, the blade of which can be opened by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, or other mechanical contrivance.

(b)
Any such knife is hereby declared to be a dangerous or deadly weapon within the meaning of section 38-117.

(c)
In addition to any other penalty imposed by lawful authority, every person convicted of any violation of this section shall be required to forfeit any such knife to the city.

(Code 1950, &#167; 845.3)

And then from the dictionary, the definition of "contrivance" - "a clever plan, or trick".

I am aware of one person who was convicted of carrying his kershaw blur, notice how this section doesn't have a maximum length requirement? This means that something as small as a chive can be unlawful. His total fine was 570 bucks. He said at trial he challenged the cop to prove it was a "mechanical contrivance" and the judge ruled that the simple demonstration of one finger opening the blade was enough, that the original intent was to cover knives that were meant to be opened with one hand.


Geez, I'm going to blather on here again... hold on...


In the not too recent past, I had a conversation with a cop working vice. He had arrested a known prostitute for prostitution again, but didn't actually have any offer of sex for money occur. He did it with a MUNCIPAL CODE definition of prostitution, that defines any "act in furtherance" to be unlawful. The act she committed? She was carrying condoms. That was all. He got his conviction. Folks, like in another thread where I didn't know anything about laws against shooting trees, DOESNT mean that there aren't any laws against that, as was pointed out to me chapter and verse. Police departments call this "using a tool" when they either get a law redefined by their city council to suit their needs, or creative in using the definition to gain an arrest. Municipal code has certain vagaries inherent in it. State law considers municipal code to be somewhat less than state criminal statutes (code), the rules of evidence are basically the same, but the rules of procedure in fighting a municipal code violation are quite curtailed from a defendants point of view. Because the state considers code violations to be, essentially, "not as serious" the strict rules of procedure are "abbreviated" (their wording) to help streamline the process of prosecuting someone for them, after all, it's not like they are being accused of a CRIME, just a "code violation". Except they forget that the "code violations" still get reported to the FBI and CBI and are TREATED as a criminal violation. Oh, and it's possible that your fine will exceed 1,000 - how? When you get charged with mulitiple crimes. Like you get angry at your friend, hit him then take his cellphone to find out what text messages he's sent to your girlfriend, while telling him to sit there and not move or you'd do it again. Let's see...

1. Assault - threatened to hit him
2. Battery - hit him
3. Theft - deprived him of property
4. Misuse of a telecommunications device to intercept a call/text that was not meant for you - obvious
5. False Imprisonment - told him to not get up

That's five separate 1,000 fines. Yippee!!!

Heck, you probably would confess to all that stuff right at the scene - goes something like this: "Yeah, I hit the jerk in the face, he was banging my girlfriend! See? I have the proof! I told him if he moved, I'd kick his ass again." I haven't seen this actually happen, but I do know that training is ongoing in "creative charging". Will some of them be dropped at court? Probably/maybe, the misuse probably and the theft maybe. But I've seen someone convicted of theft for taking their girlfriends cellphone out of her hand and refusing to give it back until the police arrived, so he could "prove" she had been unfaithful.

Folks, it is a dangerous and ugly world out there just to walk about it - and I'm not talking about criminals who would do you harm, either! It's why my advice to "get out of dodge" to people who defend themselves by displaying their weapon is given. So they do the "right thing" and call 911 to report the attempted mugging or assault, tell their side, and get arrested for doing so - even without the bad-guy/victim being present. You just CONFESSED to displaying your weapon in a manner meant to place someone in fear of their life, menacing. Why not "felony menacing"? Because THAT would put your charge in district court, and they like keeping the charges municipal because they're easier to prove AND the city attorney's that prosecute these things are not an independent agency like the district court is, they are beholden to the same folks (the city) for their jobs as you are - so it's sorta cozy, aint it!

You know the process concerning getting a record sealed after a certain amount of time? Works fine for CRS violations, but wait!!! A rule change last year made municipal code violations all but impossible to have sealed. This is according to a presiding judge that I asked the direct question of.

Welcome to Colorado, where's we're trying very very hard to be JUST LIKE Kalifornia!

[Clint45]

I did put a link... Do the legwork! But you did say thanks, so.....

Sec. 38-119. - Certain knives unlawful.

(a)
It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, display, use, possess, carry or transport any knife or instrument having the appearance of a pocket knife, the blade of which can be opened by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, or other mechanical contrivance.


Okay. I was really worried for a moment, but this does not appear to apply to thumbholes or thumbstuds, per se. However, an "assisted opening" coil spring mechanism which is NOT considered to be a switchblade may well be prohibited under this municipal ban.

[chrisguy]

ldmaster,
you me and OneGuy67 need to go have a Beer at the old man in Broomfield one evening.
you sounds as pessimistic as I do.

OK, Almost as much as I do [LOL]

LMK fellas - I'm in! [Beer]

[Hey it's my thread...]

[BlasterBob]

ldmaster, thanks for those posts. That was some real "eye opening" information that you furnished. I'll certainly be very careful with my Spyderco POLICE model.

[OneGuy67]

Idmaster:

Your quotes are not completely accurate and I would ask you to put all the information out if you are going to provide it.

One, county's don't use municipal code; from the name, municipality, they are offenses codified by a home rule city. A statutory city follows state statute only. Counties can and do have ordinances. The offenses may be spelled out one way or the other in municipal code, but are reported by NIBRS (National Incident Based Reporting System) coding. This coding allows for all the different types of agencies with different language to properly report their incidents to the CBI, who then forwards it to the FBI. If interested, look up NIBRS and you'll see how many different codes there are for very similar incidents. That information is collected and the UCR is generated. Not every agency in Colorado reports their incidences (crime stats) to CBI. Go to CBI's website if you want to see what this looks like. FBI's as well.

Two, Denver does have a length limit as listed in the below sections. "A flick of the finger" isn't in the municipal ordinance. See them listed at the end of this rant. Please be accurate, especially if you are quoting something as gospel.

Three, please stop perpetuating the myth that there are quotas in law enforcement. The only agency I've been aware of having such a thing is the CSP and they are required to have a specific amount of stops per hour. It doesn't say citations, it says stops. That's not to say that a CSP Trooper won't write their own mother, but that's a rant for another thread. Staying busy, showing activity doesn't necessarily mean writing tickets. Your agency have quotas? PM me and let me know which agency. I'd be interested in knowing that.

Four, Municode.com is a service provided for payment for organization of municipal and county ordinances. There are 25 cities and 2 counties in Colorado that subscribe to their service out of 271 municipalities and 64 counties. All home rule cities have their own municipal codes, which do allow the writing of offenses into their smaller municipal courts and do keep revenue generated by them. However, municode.com doesn't appear to assist in writing any ordinances. Most ordinances are written by the legal arm of the city or county, city attorney, county attorney and they do tend to utilize language that has passed muster in courts. That's why you usually will see mirror language to state statute or a neighboring agencies language. Additionally, most of the municipalities, especially in the Denver area, have the same law firm they use as a city attorney and language used in one city is usually generated for another city.

Five, municipal courts are limited to the maximum fine of $1,000.00 period. Not five $1,000.00 fines. CRS:
13-10-113. Fines and penalties.

(1) Any person convicted of violating a municipal ordinance in a municipal court of record may be incarcerated for a period not to exceed one year or fined an amount not to exceed one thousand dollars, or both.


Sixth, Denver successfully defended their municipal ordinance that has tighter restrictions on gun related items so far. The Colorado state law has been successfully challenged by different municipalities regarding certain aspects pertaining to their conflicting ordinances. In City and County of Denver v. State, No. 03 CV 3809 (Colo. Dist. Ct. Nov 5, 2004), upheld Denver’s ordinances addressing the open carrying of firearms, the banning of assault weapons and junk or “Saturday night special” guns, and the open carrying in city parks. A similar court decision in Aurora Gun Club v. City and County of Denver, No. 3 CV 8609, reached similar conclusions. Denver, Vail, and Boulder have prohibitions on assault weapons and Denver and Vail have prohibitions on large capacity (over 21 rounds) detachable magazines. Denver and Broomfield have prohibitions and regulations on firearms on public property and the open carrying of firearms in any park, parkway, mountain park or other recreational facility.


Seventh...crap. Tell you what. I'm going to stop because I don't want to sound as though I'm attacking another officer on this forum. I realize Denver and the Denver PD are their own strange little world and things that go on there that don't fly anywhere else in this state.


I apologize if it sounds as though I am attacking you, Idmaster. It isn't my intention. I do not like mis-information being put out on a public forum that someone will read and might get into trouble for following. That's it.






Sec. 38-117. (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0)) - Dangerous or deadly weapons—Prohibitions.
(a)
It shall be unlawful for any person, except a law enforcement officer in the performance of duty, to wear under their clothes, or concealed about their person any dangerous or deadly weapon, including, but not by way of limitation, any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, air gun, gas operated gun, spring gun, sling shot, blackjack, nunchaku, brass knuckles or artificial knuckles of any substance whatsoever, or any switchblade knife, gravity knife, or any knife having a blade greater than three and one-half (3&#189;) inches in length, or any explosive device, incendiary device or bomb, or other dangerous or deadly weapon.



Sec. 38-119. (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0)) - Certain knives unlawful.
(a)
It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, display, use, possess, carry or transport any knife or instrument having the appearance of a pocket knife, the blade of which can be opened by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, or other mechanical contrivance.
(b)
Any such knife is hereby declared to be a dangerous or deadly weapon within the meaning of section 38-117.
(c)
In addition to any other penalty imposed by lawful authority, every person convicted of any violation of this section shall be required to forfeit any such knife to the city.
(Code 1950, &#167; 845.3)

[OneGuy67]

ldmaster,
you me and OneGuy67 need to go have a Beer at the old man in Broomfield one evening.
you sounds as pessimistic as I do.

OK, Almost as much as I do [LOL]

And...I would be up for this!

[jscwerve]

Like you get angry at your friend, hit him then take his cellphone to find out what text messages he's sent to your girlfriend, while telling him to sit there and not move or you'd do it again. Let's see...

1. Assault - threatened to hit him
2. Battery - hit him
3. Theft - deprived him of property
4. Misuse of a telecommunications device to intercept a call/text that was not meant for you - obvious
5. False Imprisonment - told him to not get up

That's five separate 1,000 fines. Yippee!!!

Heck, you probably would confess to all that stuff right at the scene - goes something like this: "Yeah, I hit the jerk in the face, he was banging my girlfriend! See? I have the proof! I told him if he moved, I'd kick his ass again." I haven't seen this actually happen, but I do know that training is ongoing in "creative charging". Will some of them be dropped at court? Probably/maybe, the misuse probably and the theft maybe. But I've seen someone convicted of theft for taking their girlfriends cellphone out of her hand and refusing to give it back until the police arrived, so he could "prove" she had been unfaithful.




This is why you keep your damned mouth shut. I love watching all the cop shows on TV and it amazes me every time what people will freely admit to LE. Many officers are very tricky, and well trained in verbal Judo to get people to fess up to things freely. ALWAYS watch what you way when you are talking to a LEO.

[chrisguy]

I just caught up fully on this thread and had at least 5 different tabs open trying to quote/respond to all the great info added here, particularly from OneGuy67 clint45 and ldmaster. It was getting ridiculous so I'll keep it short and just again offer my sincere thanks to you guys for all the very welcome and truly educational info and perspectives.

ldmaster, I do want to call out your story about the backup mag [HiFive]
...and the brief bit about the origins of the GCA and some of these related laws you mentioned in that post. I love learning about the origins of things...

[Greyhound]

Here's something I've wondered about concerning what state law says about switchblade knives:

First, the law defines the meaning of "knife":
(f) "Knife" means any dagger, dirk, knife, or stiletto with a blade over 3-1/2 inches in length...

Then it defines the meaning of "switchblade knife":
(j) "Switchblade knife" means any knife, the blade of which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in its handle...Going by the previous definition of "knife", it would appear you could make the argument that an automatic knife with a blade 3 1/2 inches or shorter does not qualify as a "knife", hence it is not a "switchblade knife" either.

What do you think of that logic?

I note that New Hampshire recently rescinded the state ban on switchblade knives. I think that most switchblade bans were enacted back when movies like West Side Story were in vogue, with street punks flashing stilettos, and politicians thought they were going to suppress the growth of street gangs by outlawing switchblades. I read a news story that quoted a NH state senator commenting on why he voted to do away with the switchblade law as saying that "the Sharks and the Jets would be in their 80's now". From what I've read, few crimes are ever committed with switchblade knives. The majority of knife crimes are committed with kitchen knives in the heat of passion. Sounds to me like the hoopla over banning switchblades is akin to the more recent hysterical rhetoric over "assault weapons".

[OneGuy67]

Here's something I've wondered about concerning what state law says about switchblade knives:

First, the law defines the meaning of "knife":
(f) "Knife" means any dagger, dirk, knife, or stiletto with a blade over 3-1/2 inches in length...

Then it defines the meaning of "switchblade knife":
(j) "Switchblade knife" means any knife, the blade of which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in its handle...Going by the previous definition of "knife", it would appear you could make the argument that an automatic knife with a blade 3 1/2 inches or shorter does not qualify as a "knife", hence it is not a "switchblade knife" either.

What do you think of that logic?

I note that New Hampshire recently rescinded the state ban on switchblade knives. I think that most switchblade bans were enacted back when movies like West Side Story were in vogue, with street punks flashing stilettos, and politicians thought they were going to suppress the growth of street gangs by outlawing switchblades. I read a news story that quoted a NH state senator commenting on why he voted to do away with the switchblade law as saying that "the Sharks and the Jets would be in their 80's now". From what I've read, few crimes are ever committed with switchblade knives. The majority of knife crimes are committed with kitchen knives in the heat of passion. Sounds to me like the hoopla over banning switchblades is akin to the more recent hysterical rhetoric over "assault weapons".

Flawed logic, sorry. You are using two different definitions and combining them to make your argument. You have to read farther into the statutes that use the described definitions.

I wouldn't argue with you that crime using a switchblade is pretty non-existent. I don't make the laws; I merely enforce them. You'll need to speak to someone on high who pull new laws out of their tail pipe for change.

[Greyhound]

Thanks for the reply. I guess the two definitions stand alone, rather than interpreting the second one by the first.

One reason I asked that question was that I encountered a rather cocky gun store employee who was showing off his Microtech OTF knife from behind the counter. When I questioned him about it, he used that very argument to claim that his knife was a "tool", rather than a switchblade knife. He also mistakenly claimed that anything with a blade less than four inches was not considered a knife.

[Lex_Luthor]

The City of Denver, for instance, has banned folding knives that can be (and I'm quoting here)

"opened with a flick of a finger".



I did put a link... Do the legwork! But you did say thanks, so.....

Sec. 38-119. - Certain knives unlawful.

(a)
It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, display, use, possess, carry or transport any knife or instrument having the appearance of a pocket knife, the blade of which can be opened by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, or other mechanical contrivance.


Here's my thought: a lot of times we (general public) are subjected to interpretation of the laws by LEOs, which may or may not be entirely accurate. My quoted exampled from Idmaster show that he "quotes" the statute as "flick of a finger" but when he posts the actual statute, it clearly says "flick of a button, pressure on the handle or other MECHANICAL contrivance." That represents a big difference in the construction of the knife. Take my CRKT SF-13 for example. It CAN be opened with the flick of a finger, because it has a lever on the blade, which allows it to be opened with the flick of your finger, or upon pulling it out from your pocket, much like the "wave" feature on Emerson knives.

[OneGuy67]

Here's my thought: a lot of times we (general public) are subjected to interpretation of the laws by LEOs, which may or may not be entirely accurate. My quoted exampled from Idmaster show that he "quotes" the statute as "flick of a finger" but when he posts the actual statute, it clearly says "flick of a button, pressure on the handle or other MECHANICAL contrivance." That represents a big difference in the construction of the knife. Take my CRKT SF-13 for example. It CAN be opened with the flick of a finger, because it has a lever on the blade, which allows it to be opened with the flick of your finger, or upon pulling it out from your pocket, much like the "wave" feature on Emerson knives.

Um, yeah? I would say most LEO's do know the law as it tends to bite them in the tail end if they would do an enforcement action and be wrong. If Idmaster were to enforce his interpretation of the law (mind you, my post also discussed this point ad nauseum) and it was to be found in court to be wrong, depending upon which agency he worked, the citation would be dismissed, a letter would be sent by the D.A. to his agency (dependent upon the D.A.'s office and their relationship with his agency) and he would be open to a complaint by the citizen and possible civil remedies from a lawsuit. An officer wouldn't be covered under governmental immunity if he was plain wrong and couldn't be covered under good faith.

That's one reason why the attorney general's office and most local D.A.'s offices conduct training with law enforcement on the new statutes, changes in statute and new non-funded mandates required by statute in order to keep the majority of law enforcement out of trouble. Most good agencies will enhance that training with training of their own on a monthly basis, discussing new case law, new trends, new tactics, new municipal ordinances, etc. Continuous training is necessary in law enforcement to keep up with all the ever changing statutes, case law, circumstances, and such.

[Lex_Luthor]

That's entirely true. And I for one, know that if I was confronted by LEO about a knife that can be opened by a flick of the finger, according to Idmaster, I wouldn't be in a position to challenge his stance, and I wouldn't try. He'd be quoting case law to me, and I would be none the wiser. It would be much simpler to me to just surrender my knife, pay the citation and be on with my life. He had it right on, but the only difference in his words that I saw were "flick of a finger" vs. "flick of a button", so I guess I was thinking through my fingers, and wondering if that would open up some ground in the case of a knife like mine.

So, hypothetically, if I was confronted and had my knife confiscated and I was cited because it could be opened with the flick of a finger, but if the statute says "flick of a button", would I be let off the hook, or would the case be thrown out? I wouldn't be interested in disputing what an officer said, especially during the confrontation itself, due to his having a badge and all. But it helps to know, especially if I carry it daily.

[OneGuy67]

Realize I am writing this as a LEO, but I would comply with what the officer is doing and then argue in court. It is never a good idea to argue on the street with an officer; the officer will win. Bad things will happen.

I would research the statute that I was written a citation under and see if I was in the right or wrong. In this situation we are discussing, you would discover your knife was within the legal definition and thus, not illegal (barring the length of the blade isn't an issue by the definition).

I would then bring that argument to court with me and discuss the issue with the prosecutor and want a dismissal if I am in the right and a note or letter from the prosecutor to the law enforcement agency stating it was okay to release the knife back to me and that the case was dismissed due to whatever reason. If the knife wasn't illegal, then they should be willing to return it at the end of the case, but it probably will take the letter from the DA to get it back.

Then, if you want to push the issue, you can file a complaint against the officer with his department on the argument that he wrote an unlawful citation and provide the documentation you provided to the court and whatever letter or note you obtained from the DA, if any. He wouldn't get fired for something like this, but it would be in his permanent file and most likely, he would need to show an understanding of the issue to his sergeant or lieutenant so it wouldn't happen again. The disciplinary issues are not public documents, so you may not hear the resuls of it, depending upon the agency and how transparent they are. Some are very transparent and some are very closed. Most are in the middle.

If you really want to push the issue, you can sue, but your loss is minimal and it would be difficult to get an attorney to represent you in it.

[Lex_Luthor]

[Beer] THanks! It was purely hypothetical. Blade length is a non issue at 3 1/4".

[StagLefty]

Is the 3 1/4" actual cutting edge length or blade length from tip to handle ?
The reason I ask is because this can make the difference with most of my knives between legal or illegal. ??

[OneGuy67]

Is the 3 1/4" actual cutting edge length or blade length from tip to handle ?
The reason I ask is because this can make the difference with most of my knives between legal or illegal. ??


...any knife having a blade greater than three and one-half (3½) inches in length...

[TFOGGER]

Is the 3 1/4" actual cutting edge length or blade length from tip to handle ?
The reason I ask is because this can make the difference with most of my knives between legal or illegal. ??

I believe the common interpretation is the portion from the handle/guard to the tip.

[StagLefty]

I believe the common interpretation is the portion from the handle/guard to the tip.
Thanks TFOGGER- I was looking for something beside a vague quote [Beer]

[OneGuy67]

Thanks TFOGGER- I was looking for something beside a vague quote [Beer]

It wasn't a vague quote, it was the definition in statute. No more, no less. That is the definition that LEO's will use.

[CapLock]

Thread now has me wondering about my knife that I carry daily. It only has a three inch blade, but is spring loaded. Looks like a normal folder with a thumb button on the blade. Barely touch it and it swings open fully every time. Been a great easy to open knife. Even have cleaned a deer with it. Is it now considered too dangerous for me to possess or carry? [Bang]
BTW its a Ken Onion Kershaw 1560

(Having to worry about carrying a pocket knife...GMAFB)

[OneGuy67]

Thread now has me wondering about my knife that I carry daily. It only has a three inch blade, but is spring loaded. Looks like a normal folder with a thumb button on the blade. Barely touch it and it swings open fully every time. Been a great easy to open knife. Even have cleaned a deer with it. Is it now considered too dangerous for me to possess or carry? [Bang]
BTW its a Ken Onion Kershaw 1560

(Having to worry about carrying a pocket knife...GMAFB)


I viewed a video of your knife online and while it appears to be pretty close to what could be considered a switchblade, I would say it isn't according to the strict interpretation of the definition. Again, I wouldn't hassle anyone that had a knife such as yours unless the knife was being used in a manner that violated other laws. That is just me and I know a number of old cops like me that feel the same way about the issue.

[ldmaster]

I'm going to do this one time, just because people want to pick apart every little thing to somehow make themselves seem superior:

I don't know you 1guy67, but you do have issues with me (or rather, with what I write), so let's draw issue with your definition of "municiple".

It's right in the friggin dictionary, to quote:

1: of or relating to the internal affairs of a major political unit (as a nation)
2 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a municipality
b : having local self-government
3: restricted to one locality


The meaning of "municipal" has NOTHING to do with whether or not some political subdivision is a city or a county.


The actual denver law says "mechanical contrivance" all too broad.

1guy67. You would ask that I put out all the information? I provided the links, wasn't that enough?

And municipal code is NOT statutorily defined as having to do with a city or township. ANY statutory political subdivision of the State can have it's own code, commonly referred to as municipal code.

La Plata county, has a municipal code, for instance.

Your definition is insufficiently thorough as "Home Rule" can apply to ANY municipality that declares itself to be "self governing". It is a description of a municipality that it claims the right to "Home Rule", in doing so it must conform to CRS statutes applying to any municipality that says it has "home rule" Thus any municipality may be home rule, but it's by choice. Denver is a statutory city, but also is "home rule". Home rule is not a TYPE of city or town, it is what a city or town defines itself as.

If you're going to pick apart a couple of words, you should look to your own posts.

[Byte Stryke]

I'm going to do this one time, just because people want to pick apart every little thing to somehow make themselves seem superior:

I don't know you 1guy67, but you do have issues with me (or rather, with what I write), so let's draw issue with your definition of "municiple".

It's right in the friggin dictionary, to quote:

1: of or relating to the internal affairs of a major political unit (as a nation)
2 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a municipality
b : having local self-government
3: restricted to one locality


The meaning of "municipal" has NOTHING to do with whether or not some political subdivision is a city or a county.


The actual denver law says "mechanical contrivance" all too broad.

1guy67. You would ask that I put out all the information? I provided the links, wasn't that enough?

And municipal code is NOT statutorily defined as having to do with a city or township. ANY statutory political subdivision of the State can have it's own code, commonly referred to as municipal code.

La Plata county, has a municipal code, for instance.

Your definition is insufficiently thorough as "Home Rule" can apply to ANY municipality that declares itself to be "self governing". It is a description of a municipality that it claims the right to "Home Rule", in doing so it must conform to CRS statutes applying to any municipality that says it has "home rule" Thus any municipality may be home rule, but it's by choice. Denver is a statutory city, but also is "home rule". Home rule is not a TYPE of city or town, it is what a city or town defines itself as.

If you're going to pick apart a couple of words, you should look to your own posts.


This is going to be great
[Pop]

[Lex_Luthor]

Is the 3 1/4" actual cutting edge length or blade length from tip to handle ?
The reason I ask is because this can make the difference with most of my knives between legal or illegal. ??


...any knife having a blade greater than three and one-half (3½) inches in length...


I believe the common interpretation is the portion from the handle/guard to the tip.

I was always under the impression it was the actual cutting edge. I knew about the general measurement with the palm of one's hand, but that will definitely change depending the size of one's mitts. I measured mine just to check. Cutting edge is 3 1/4", and the entire length of the blade from tip to handle is 3 1/2" so I'm set with mine. Thanks for the clarification.

I have a friend who carries a couple CRKT M16-SF14 which is bigger than mine, and ended up doing an evening in de-tox, and was given his knives back. The actual cutting edge on his knives is 3 1/2" so I guess that's what the LEOs went with in his case. I think like OneGuy said, it depends on what the circumstances are. If the knives were being used in an illegal manner, then you're running into other problems.

[OneGuy67]

Sigh...Idmaster...as I previously stated, I didn't want to start anything, and I apologized in my post for sounding like I was attacking you.

That being said, I'm going to again ask you if you are going to put information out there, BE ACCURATE! If you can't, don't post. There are those here who will take the fact you are a LEO and believe what you are posting as being correct. The fact you say one thing and post something which conflicts with what you write, is disturbing. It shows a lack of understanding. Look at the other member's posts after your own if you can't understand that.

Once again, I'm not going to attack you, but is your understanding of local government that bad that you don't understand the difference between a municipality and a county government?

La Plata county DOES NOT have a municipal code. It is in Municode.com, which appears where you are attempting to obtain your information. If you bothered to actually read it, you would see they are GENERAL ORDINANCES. Municode.come is a paid company that publishes them online for money. Do you get that?

You are somewhat correct in your understanding of home rule verses statutory cities. All cities start as statutory cities and can develop into home rule cities by declaration. Title 31, Section 202 of the CRS control the self-governing of cities as home rule. Denver is governed under Article XX, section 4 and Title 30, section 101 as a consolidated city-county government.

There are major difference between a statutory and a home rule city. One is the collection and imposition of sales tax. A statutory city imposes the city sales tax based on rules established by the State of Colorado. The Colorado Department of Revenue is responsible for collecting and administering local sales taxes for all statutory cities that impose a sales tax. Sales taxes collected by vendors in such areas are to be reported on the DR 0100 and remitted to the Colorado Department of Revenue. A home rule city administers its own city sales tax and the laws regarding sales tax may vary from those established by the State of Colorado. Home rule cities operate as self-collected cities because they administer and collect their own city sales tax. The Colorado Department of Revenue has no jurisdiction over sales and use taxes imposed by these cities when the State does not administer the local taxes. City taxes collected for such areas must be remitted directly to the home rule city.

Another is land use and planning. Statutory counties and municipalities derive their powers from state statute. The law does not explicitly grant statutory counties and municipalities the authority to regulate oil and gas development and production operations. However, state law provides statutory municipalities and counties with broad land-use and planning powers.

Municipality has everything to do with an set geographical boundary being a city. That set area has incorporated into a recognized municipality and thus, is a statutory city. For example, Highlands Ranch is a geographically identified area by the developer, has some limited special fire and water districts and a home owner's assoication, but IS NOT A MUNICIPALITY as it has not incorporated into a city. Bow Mar is a municipality, with set geographical boundaries, limited governmental services and a town council managing a budget obtained by tax revenues.

Again, I'm not looking to pick a fight and provide Byte with a show! Please ensure what you are saying is correct. That's all.

[BigBear]

Where have I been?....



[Pepsi][Pirate][Pop]

[StagLefty]

Where have I been?....
[Pepsi][Pirate][Pop]

I don't know but thanks for fresh popcorn [Pepsi]

[OneGuy67]

I'm trying to keep this short and civil but....pass me the popcorn too...sigh...

[Pop]

[Clint45]

It is never a good idea to argue on the street with an officer; the officer will win. Bad things will happen.


Especially in Denver.

[Greyhound]

That's the Kershaw Whirlwind. It is a spring-assisted knife, not a switchblade. It doesn't have a button or other device on the handle to trigger opening the blade, and it requires a nudge from a finger to get the blade moving before the spring opens it the rest of the way. It's legal. The federal Switchblade Knife Act was amended to exclude spring-assisted knives.

[CapLock]

Thanks for the info

[demtek9]

Personally I carry a Strider SMF or SnG. Both have cutting edges less than 3.5 inches, but the handle design could make the SMF seem longer depending on how it is measured. There is close to an inch of finger choil on the designs. I'm not doing anything to cause me concern and I work on the Air Force base most days, so most any day I'm only seeing an SP in passing. Interesting read.

[Irving]

Are Blackjack's still illegal?

Like this, in case someone doesn't know what I'm talking about.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-11389324263124_2085_2706521

[cstone]

I don't know about CO law on saps and blackjacks but I remember when uniformed pants for many police departments still could be bought with pockets along the seam for them. Most cops don't use them anymore. Everyone seems to have moved to asps. I kind of miss the blackjack. Much more effective than a PR-24 or straight baton.

[cstone]

Yup, they are illegal weapons under CO law.

18-12-102. Possessing a dangerous or illegal weapon - affirmative defense.

(1) As used in this section, the term "dangerous weapon" means a firearm silencer, machine gun, short shotgun, short rifle, or ballistic knife.

(2) As used in this section, the term "illegal weapon" means a blackjack, gas gun, metallic knuckles, gravity knife, or switchblade knife.

(3) A person who knowingly possesses a dangerous weapon commits a class 5 felony. Each subsequent violation of this subsection (3) by the same person shall be a class 4 felony.

(4) A person who knowingly possesses an illegal weapon commits a class 1 misdemeanor.

(5) It shall be an affirmative defense to the charge of possessing a dangerous weapon, or to the charge of possessing an illegal weapon, that the person so accused was a peace officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or Colorado National Guard acting in the lawful discharge of his duties, or that said person has a valid permit and license for possession of such weapon.

[Irving]

Only a misdemeanor huh? Doubt you can get a permit for a blackjack.

[chrisguy]

Hey all... Just posting here because I re-discovered this forum and found this thread I started. There's some great discussion above, but as of March 2020 it's almost 10 years old and some laws in CO have changed (2018) to allow not just spring-assisted but automatic knives to be both owned and carried legally by civilians in most of CO. I'm sure most folks here are as thankful as I am that much of the discussion above is now moot, but not all of it is, so I thought I'd say Hi again here and re-surface some of what's already been covered above.

Yep, still a knife guy!

[Gman]

There's another thread about autos around here somewhere. ;-)

[chrisguy]

Heh I'll find it I'm sure... Just couldn't resist bumping. Floored that this was still here!

[Gman]

It's like a time capsule. [Coffee]

[MrPrena]

Yeah! HI!

[cstone]

I have switched to carrying a utility knife like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Edge-Slidewinder-Utility-Knife/dp/B07T8HR38F

No sharpening, cheap blades available just about everywhere. Another option: MOSSY OAK 2-pack Folding Pocket Utility Knife Set, Quick Change Blade, Frame Lock, EDC Box Cutter with Belt Clip, Stone Washed currently on Amazon for $13.99 or $7 each.

If you fly, you toss the blade and pick one up after you arrive at your destination. I still have my Spyderco knives, a Gerber, a CRKT, a Kershaw, and a few others, but for what I do on a day to day with my carry knife, one of the inexpensive utility knives works well for me.

Be safe.

[Erni]

I have switched to carrying a utility knife like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Edge-Slidewinder-Utility-Knife/dp/B07T8HR38F

No sharpening, cheap blades available just about everywhere. Another option: MOSSY OAK 2-pack Folding Pocket Utility Knife Set, Quick Change Blade, Frame Lock, EDC Box Cutter with Belt Clip, Stone Washed currently on Amazon for $13.99 or $7 each.

If you fly, you toss the blade and pick one up after you arrive at your destination. I still have my Spyderco knives, a Gerber, a CRKT, a Kershaw, and a few others, but for what I do on a day to day with my carry knife, one of the inexpensive utility knives works well for me.

Be safe.
That thing is neat. Blades at any HD.
Heh, you could even mail a blade to your hotel ahead of time.

[ray1970]

That thing is neat. Blades at any HD.
Heh, you could even mail a blade to your hotel ahead of time.

Or you could just take your normal carry knife. Just has to go in your checked bag.

[brutal]

I have switched to carrying a utility knife like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Edge-Slidewinder-Utility-Knife/dp/B07T8HR38F

No sharpening, cheap blades available just about everywhere. Another option: MOSSY OAK 2-pack Folding Pocket Utility Knife Set, Quick Change Blade, Frame Lock, EDC Box Cutter with Belt Clip, Stone Washed currently on Amazon for $13.99 or $7 each.

If you fly, you toss the blade and pick one up after you arrive at your destination. I still have my Spyderco knives, a Gerber, a CRKT, a Kershaw, and a few others, but for what I do on a day to day with my carry knife, one of the inexpensive utility knives works well for me.

Be safe.

You don't get hassled at all through TSA (without blade of course) if carrying on?

[cstone]

You don't get hassled at all through TSA (without blade of course) if carrying on?

Its TSA...of course you're going to be hassled. If it isn't this it will be something else, but what is this thing if it doesn't have a blade? It isn't a gun part and without a blade, it isn't a knife. Just let them touch your junk and then give them a bottle of water. Odds are they will be happy because the found something prohibited and move along to someone they find more attractive.

[CS1983]

Stick a toothpick in the slot and tell em it’s a pocket carried toothpick holder. Advise them you are Hep C
+.

[brutal]

I'll just tell them I'm incubating COVID-19. That should go over well.

I guess I've survived this long without having to even think of using my pocket streamlight for its potential alternate uses or get busted for it's minimally crenulated bezel, though DougCo justice center cops gave it a good look, I can probably live without one of these gadgets.

[ETA] I already have a tendency to get a little mouthy with the TSA pukes if they're being particularly assholy, I should avoid potential confrontation on something like this.

[TresMonos]

Knives.....well they aren't knives but they are edged.....since I am new to CO I will ask, are Tomahawks legal to carry? Asking for a friend.....

https://i.imgur.com/Fy2Xan6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9QvULsn.jpg

[CS1983]

That handle is nice! Did you make that yourself?

[TresMonos]

That handle is nice! Did you make that yourself?

That hawk is the work of Iron John Logan....

https://www.irontreeforge.com/home

[encorehunter]

I dont know that I would be willing to throw that one. That is a nice piece of work. Is it drilled for a pipe hawk?

[Jenks]

I know this post has been going on for years, but if it hasn’t been mentioned yet, the old law of not being able to carry automatic knives (switchblades) was removed in 2018. You can now carry them, but they fall under the same 3.5” blade length rules as others. Ballistic knives are still very illegal.

[brutal]

I know this post has been going on for years, but if it hasn’t been mentioned yet, the old law of not being able to carry automatic knives (switchblades) was removed in 2018. You can now carry them, but they fall under the same 3.5” blade length rules as others. Ballistic knives are still very illegal.

Wow, really?

[facepalm]

[Jenks]

Yep, totally legal now, I carry a Microtech auto as my EDC now.

[Gman]

[Sarcasm2]..

[brutal]

Yep, totally legal now, I carry a Microtech auto as my EDC now.

[LOL] [Beer]

[SideShow Bob]

But, the original question of can you legally carry a concealed knife of any type with a CHP has not been definitively answered.

[Mazin]

CHP is a Concealed Handgun Permit, it is as the name implies. Does not cover knives, asp etc. On the flip side since most knives have a pocket clip wouldn't that be considered open carrying?

[Irving]

CHP is a Concealed Handgun Permit, it is as the name implies. Does not cover knives, asp etc. On the flip side since most knives have a pocket clip wouldn't that be considered open carrying?

It depends on the state. Oregon I think uses that pocket clip work around. I haven't heard that about here though. Not that I've looked into it, just saying I haven't heard that.

[Bailey Guns]

Boredom. Too hot outside to do anything. So I read this entire thread. And now I'll make a comment that's about 9 years too late to be relevant, just because I can.

I don't recall every giving anyone a hard time about a knife they were carrying unless they had used it in a crime. For the last nearly 20 years that I've been out of law enforcement I just clip a little Kershaw or Gerber into my pocket and I've never worried about getting hassled by the police over it. Mostly because I avoid doing things that will get me into contact with the police. I'm not saying it's not important to understand the law and sometimes, like with this subject, that can be difficult.

But maybe we tend to overthink things sometimes?

I'll check back in another 9 years.

[Irving]

A little bird told me that a screwdriver can be a pretty effective defense weapon as well.

[Gman]

How about a pencil?


http://youtu.be/3ATMAza1TXg

I seem to recall that knives under the legal blade length limit are not considered "weapons".

[Bailey Guns]

But pretty much anything can be considered a deadly weapon. Even a screwdriver...

[Gman]

...or the human mind.

[Bailey Guns]

How about a pencil?

I thought he used a PAN-sell.

[theGinsue]

Knives.....well they aren't knives but they are edged.....since I am new to CO I will ask, are Tomahawks legal to carry? Asking for a friend.....

https://i.imgur.com/Fy2Xan6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9QvULsn.jpg

Ignored this thread for a while and just came in to check it out. That is one heck of a sweet tomahawk.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

If that is the kind of Tomahawk that you can smoke stuff out of the blade opposite side, that would be so Colorado. Defend your self and blaze up...

[TresMonos]

Ignored this thread for a while and just came in to check it out. That is one heck of a sweet tomahawk.

Thanks, I really like it. It's really well balanced too but I just can't bring myself to throw it.


If that is the kind of Tomahawk that you can smoke stuff out of the blade opposite side, that would be so Colorado. Defend your self and blaze up...

It IS a classic Treaty Hawk design but I asked him to make the bowl a hammer instead of a pipe.

Since I still consider myself to be new to CO (under 2 years here) which of these three can I legally carry?

https://i.imgur.com/k74hNloh.jpg

[brutal]

Thanks, I really like it. It's really well balanced too but I just can't bring myself to throw it.



It IS a classic Treaty Hawk design but I asked him to make the bowl a hammer instead of a pipe.

Since I still consider myself to be new to CO (under 2 years here) which of these three can I legally carry?

https://i.imgur.com/k74hNloh.jpg

Blade length is limited to 3.5" for concealed carry.

I think there are still some municipalities that don't allow automatic knives.

[ray1970]

I think there?s some funky wording that basically says you aren?t allowed to carry a knife to use as a weapon. I try to stick to designs that look a little more utilitarian just to be on the safe side.

[SideShow Bob]

And doesn?t Denver have some wording in their ordinance about double edged blades to make it illegal to carry it concealed at any length ?

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

And doesn?t Denver have some wording in their ordinance about double edged blades to make it illegal to carry it concealed at any length ?

It’s been awhile since I looked, but I don’t remember anything like that.

Is there an age restriction on knife carrying?