View Full Version : AR15.com..
I have a little issue. I contacted a member about buying a rail, and asked if could hold on to it while i got money in my paypal. Well yesterday my radiator in my truck went out, so I told the guy i could not by his rail because i need they money to fix my truck. (I'm a broke college kid so its not like i have extra money laying around) Well today i got a -1 feedback for whelching, and the mod says if i dont follow through with buying the item my account locked.. So basically the mod is making follow through with this buying this item or else i banned from the EE, and my account gets locked. They guy who is selling the rail has others wanting the rail, and i can understand him being upset for waiting on me, but i really feel as if i'm getting screwed here.. I understand whelching is not a good thing, but in my situation i had no choice. it seems the mod i am dealing with has no concept of understanding my situation.
Anyone have any ideas as to how i should deal with this situation?
thanks
eighty duece
01-11-2011, 16:34
What kind of rail is it? Maybe someone here would want it, give you the money to buy it and all is good?
I have a friend in the same boat, he won a bid for a new AR on gunbroker for $650 (spikes mix), lost his job the day the auction ended and is now facing negative marks for not paying.
Its a DD 12" lite rail. He was asking 325 for it
Great-Kazoo
01-11-2011, 16:37
bitch over there.
MY $0.02
if you don't have the money in hand do not commit. I understand "things" popping up out of no where. Unless you posted your pm or em to him there is no way we know what was said regarding commitment to purchase.
I listed a tool box week of christmas on CL. guy hounds me on the phone 3-4 times. Insist on coming over to buy it that night. OK he shows up, says it is Exactly what he needs.
THEN ASK ME, Could you hold it for a few weeks until i get some money??? WTF it's $45.00 dude.
DeusExMachina
01-11-2011, 16:40
Apparently this happens all the time over there.
Not sure what the point is of the feedback system if you're banned for life after one negative.
HBARleatherneck
01-11-2011, 16:40
bitch over there.
MY $0.02
if you don't have the money in hand do not commit. I understand "things" popping up out of no where. Unless you posted your pm or em to him there is no way we know what was said regarding commitment to purchase.
I listed a tool box week of christmas on CL. guy hounds me on the phone 3-4 times. Insist on coming over to buy it that night. OK he shows up, says it is Exactly what he needs.
THEN ASK ME, Could you hold it for a few weeks until i get some money??? WTF it's $45.00 dude.
well, thanks for telling everyone. now i feel bad. can i buy it with foodstamps, Jim?
Well the thing is i did have the money in the bank until my truck had to take a dump on me.
HBARleatherneck
01-11-2011, 16:45
most people i have dealt with in life, both in real life, and on the internet, will work with you if you are upfront and honest. so...why did this go south? did you immediately contact him and ask him if he would be willing to let you back out? or did you say, too bad, I cant afford it now? i think, if someone commited to buy from me, and then came back and said " i am willing to keep my word, but if its possible, i would like to be released from my obligation" I would say " no problem"
but, if I listed an item, and then worked with a guy to get the payment, and then was told, "sorry i cant afford it now, im not keeping my word", i would probably say that person was welching. our word is all we got.
oh and this isnt ar15.coms fault. they have a zillion transactions, thats how it gets done.
bitch over there.
MY $0.02
if you don't have the money in hand do not commit. I understand "things" popping up out of no where. Unless you posted your pm or em to him there is no way we know what was said regarding commitment to purchase.
I listed a tool box week of christmas on CL. guy hounds me on the phone 3-4 times. Insist on coming over to buy it that night. OK he shows up, says it is Exactly what he needs.
THEN ASK ME, Could you hold it for a few weeks until i get some money??? WTF it's $45.00 dude.
This was all of our PMs
TDO
I'll take it, but its gonna take about for days to get the money in my paypal. Please send me paypal info.
Thanks,
Tom
manosteel00
****@gmail.com
Please let me know you're shipping address.
Thanks!
manosteel00
Im gonna have to pass on the rail, my truck just broke down and i need the money to fix it. Sorry about this.
Thanks,
Tom
Thanks for making me hold it for you.
JohnTRourke
01-11-2011, 16:50
Apparently this happens all the time over there.
Not sure what the point is of the feedback system if you're banned for life after one negative.
no, you're banned for welching.
and I have no issue with it
The rules are clearly posted on every single forum.
you shouldn't have said "I'll take it"
your bad in this case
you should pay for it and then turn around and sell it if you need the cash.
and honestly, if you are so far in the hole that $300 wipes you out, you shouldn't be buying rails for guns. (or guns, or whatever)
HBARleatherneck
01-11-2011, 16:55
brian, what does th H. stand for?
no, you're banned for welching.
and I have no issue with it
The rules are clearly posted on every single forum.
you shouldn't have said "I'll take it"
your bad in this case
you should pay for it and then turn around and sell it if you need the cash.
and honestly, if you are so far in the hole that $300 wipes you out, you shouldn't be buying rails for guns. (or guns, or whatever)
I'm not in the "hole".. The money i had set aside for the rail had to be used to fixed my truck.
Why do you have no problem being banned for whelching? it seems extreme to me, and to be honest just plain stupid.
OneGuy67
01-11-2011, 17:14
Im gonna have to pass on the rail, my truck just broke down and i need the money to fix it. Sorry about this.
Thanks,
Tom
As others have mentioned, it is how you deal with the issue that mattered and from your post, you didn't handle it well. Had you apologized and tried to work with the guy, he probably would have moved on to the next person interested. The whole "I'm gonna have to pass on the rail" isn't the right way to start a conversation with someone whom you have a verbal contract with and owe money to.
My $.02.
Yes I did not handle it very well.. Looks like I learned my lesson the hard way
Sorry to hear of your troubles, everybody's different with sales and things.
I just bought a large, heavy item from a guy in CA, it was $185 for the item and $140 for shipping it. He boxed it all up and shipped it to me, before I paid him! I didn't even have his address until the boxes arrived. The man didn't know me from a bag of assholes, he sure didn't need to do that. But by God, I had the cash on the way to him via FedEx before I even opened the boxes.
CrufflerSteve
01-11-2011, 18:43
It is a shame. When stuff goes bad you can often work it out by being upfront and asking what you can do to make it right. Most people will let it slide or take a few bucks for the inconvenience. If they're given a chance to be reasonable they often will be. If you get their back up by seeming to be a welsher - things get bad.
I don't know if you're losing much by being banned from ARF. The place always seemed full of tightly wound sorts and abrasive know-it-alls. I wasn't at all upset when I banned myself by switching my old email to an anonymous gmail. I ain't going to get another email to make them happy.
Hope your trucks stays fixed and you get caught up. This is a good time to have credit but that is a bad trap if it gets out of control.
Steve
i was banned for "whelching", but my store is even more ridiculous. ill tell you this, you will have a healthier life not visiting ar15.com. bunch of mall ninjas that proclaim to be SF and really many mean spirited folks.
for mine, i said id buy a $60 spotting scope (i needed one quick for a trip i was going on with friends). sent a USPS MO for it but like a fool didn't get delivery confirmation. he says he never received it, opened a complaint and gave me negative feedback before even talking to me! i found out myself when surfing the site. so i tell him "whoa dude, must have gotten lost or something, ill send another, ask USPS if the old one was cashed, and get delviery confirmation this time". no dice. as such i was banned and told i can't come back until i resolve the situation. well considering i agreed to pay double the price, i really don't see how much more i can do to resolve the issue. but since the guy wouldn't take it, i have been forever banned. they are real assholes over there and i don't lose any sleep over it. i haven't visited the site, even as a guest, for well over two years, and im glad.
as for your deal, although its udnerstandable, id be pissed too, but id never open a negative feedback claim or bitch about it. just say gee, thanks, and move on. its not like it won't be able to be sold to someone else, it just wasted a day or two of his time, big deal. people get so bent out of shape these days for the dumbest things and having grace and kindness is unheard of. but hey, its arfcom, shouldn't be surprised
Yes I did not handle it very well.. Looks like I learned my lesson the hard way
It's ok, I got banned there also. Maybe one day I'll figure out why. [ROFL1]AHhh the memories.
Sorry but you did screw up. I'll take it means I'll take it. Not I'll take it unless I may need the money for fixin my truck.
JohnTRourke
01-11-2011, 19:14
I'm not in the "hole".. The money i had set aside for the rail had to be used to fixed my truck.
Why do you have no problem being banned for whelching? it seems extreme to me, and to be honest just plain stupid.
did you not read the rules?
are you so special that the rules don't apply to you?
There's a locked topic at the very top in every single for sale forum on ar15.com
Do not welch on deals (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=387176)
if you say you'll take it, then pay for it. If you don't I'll kick you off. If you manage to get past me and open another account here I'll put your name and address on the web to make sure it doesn't happen again.
how hard is that?
Plus your PM's/emails to the guy don't ring true.
no explanation, no nothing, just a $300 expense means I can't buy your thing that I said I would.
Now, you had an engine blow up and you need a new $5000 engine, that makes sense, but a $300 expense means you can't do it? Sorry, doesn't ring true, you have no explanation, no sorry, can we work something out, no nothing.
It's your own fault.
Most sellers are pretty understanding, but you acted above the rules and that others should instantly understand and then got dinged for it.
As a seller, I'd be unhappy too. I wish we had the rule here. "I'll take it" is very specific on any gun board. It has meaning and it matters.
Their board, their rules. Same as here.
Actions have consequences
Man up and admit your mistake, learn from it and don't do it again.
gcrookston
01-11-2011, 19:45
I've been banned over there a couple of different times over the last 10-15 years, but usually for being an a**hole to another a**hole (rule #1. Cardio, rule #2. Don't tell the moderator he's an idiot with supporting documentation and expect to be welcome).
But a deal is a deal. Backing out after committing, for whatever reason, is still backing out. I feel your pain, there are circumstances beyond our control.
If you really feel you need to be on over there (as I occasionally do after a few beers and reading something stooopid by someone that needs bitch slapping), reset your IP, create a new email account and rejoin...
When you do, look up the thread on Cryo treated barrels recently posted in the AR15 section, you'll see some posts that got me a written warning (I've never had one of those from them before)...
Byte Stryke
01-11-2011, 20:08
Do not welch on deals (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=387176)
I agree with the arguments against welching, the threat of publicly posting someones name and address on the internet breaches so many rules it isn't funny.
I'll put your name and address on the web to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Let someone break into my apartment, car, scratch the paint, egg my house, or steal my mail and I will report your name to the authorities as a potential suspect or accessory to the fact for the above.
Huge no-no
Just my 2 cents
hurley842002
01-11-2011, 21:18
[/INDENT]
Let someone break into my apartment, car, scratch the paint, egg my house, or steal my mail and I will report your name to the authorities as a potential suspect or accessory to the fact for the above.
Huge no-no
Just my 2 cents
Yeah, posting someones personal info on a public forum unwanted is absolutely ridiculous and uncalled for, talk about internet commando.
I think I will stick with co-ar15, where people aren't quite as crazy. [Beer]
ChadAmberg
01-11-2011, 22:10
Yeah, posting someones personal info on a public forum unwanted is absolutely ridiculous and uncalled for, talk about internet commando.
I think I will stick with co-ar15, where people aren't quite as crazy. [Beer]
Arfcom just isn't worth it, most folks are pretty proud of getting banned there. Maybe more so for arguing than not buying an item though.
I will definitely say the folks here are much nicer overall than all the national gun forums I've been on. Sigforum isn't that bad, but several of the others just have me shaking my head. Maybe its because we're all within a couple hours drive of each other we're all more polite? Heh..
Great-Kazoo
01-11-2011, 22:14
well, thanks for telling everyone. now i feel bad. can i buy it with foodstamps, Jim?
only if you used the stamps to by smokes and beverages. otherwise NO.
I do have a more cost efficient tool box i can carry you on for a few weeks if you want it. :O
ChunkyMonkey
01-11-2011, 22:15
I am not banned yet... but I might as well. The main forum are not helpful at all. The local ones are better, but coar15 is so much better and responsive.
I am not banned yet... but I might as well. The main forum are not helpful at all. The local ones are better, but coar15 is so much better and responsive.
Very true. I'm pretty sure I'll get banned. I was pissed at first, but I looked at threads about others getting banned about similar issues as mine and now I don't really care. I'll just sell locally and not have to worry about the bs on ar15.com
Hometown forums are pretty quiet, and GD is full of conspiracy theorists and two-faces that say they are on the side of individual freedom, unless it is something they oppose, then it warrants a .45 to the head and quick toss in a dumpster.
I pretty much only stick around for the tech forums...
cms81586
01-11-2011, 22:47
I've been a member over there for over a decade. I was on back when it was the old AR15.com. That said....the quality of membership has decreased but there are still people on there with a lot of good info. ARFCOM started the "ban you for welching" deal when the EE got pretty big and people were doing it a lot. I don't agree with the sellers threats to post up your info and that is also a no-no on ARFCOM, but he is right in the respect that you probably shouldn't be buying guns. I've been in the same boat as you when I was in school and even sold a few guns just to have $2000 sitting in savings to ensure that I had a "slush fund" with some emergency money. You'll be making the big bucks soon enough and can always put off those non-essential purchases until later. I'm certainly not telling you how to manage your finances but just offering a little friendly advice. Always better safe than sorry.
CMS
Scanker19
01-11-2011, 22:51
Wow sounds like there are as many assholes on AR15 as there are at a private country club. OP yeah seems to be that your are better here.
I don't see the big deal they make it sound as though you ate an infant while whacking it to Oprah. Shit happens, it happens to all of us. Sounds like some people should "man up" and realize that.
And who's business is it what this guys spends or "goes in the hole" for. If i want to spend all my money on weed and hookers so be it.
If something more important comes up than a stupid rail that i need to spend money on guess who's not getting paid? It's happened to me before where my buyer backs out, but guess what someone was right behind him to buy it.
I'm proud you were are getting banned, I only wish I could hold my vomit back long enough to type that website into my computer to get banned.
This was all of our PMs
TDO
I'll take it, but its gonna take about for days to get the money in my paypal. Please send me paypal info.
Thanks,
Tom
manosteel00
****@gmail.com
Please let me know you're shipping address.
Thanks!
manosteel00
Im gonna have to pass on the rail, my truck just broke down and i need the money to fix it. Sorry about this.
Thanks,
Tom
Thanks for making me hold it for you.
I have done a lot of deals over there. in all honesty it sounds to me like a BS excuse to get out of buying the rail.
never commit to something unless you have the money. someone else said it as well, that if $300 drops you to nothing in your account, you have no business buying a rail.
If this was $10,000 that you just had to pay because your wife wrecked her car without full coverage insurance, then that might be a different story.
You should have explained a lot more in the emails to make sure he knew it was a legit occurrence and not another BS excuse to get out of a deal (which is the way I would have read that email), and I would have posted a -1 as well.
I would go over there in the feedback forum and own up to it, tell them you are sorry and explain the entire story. If not, buy the rail then sell it. If you don't have the money then see if someone here wants it and you will get it to them. If all else fails write it off (and the ar15.com account) as a lesson learned and move on with life.
I think I will stick with co-ar15, where people aren't quite as crazy. [Beer]
you don't know me bro![Tooth]
theGinsue
01-11-2011, 23:30
you don't know me bro![Tooth]
Yes, he's nuts. He pushes metal boxes full of people high into the sky for a living. Next thing you'll hear is that his hobby is to jump out of smaller versions of those boxes - while there are still way up in the air.
Crazy. Crazy I tell you.
Yes, he's nuts. He pushes metal boxes full of people high into the sky for a living. Next thing you'll hear is that his hobby is to jump out of smaller versions of those boxes - while there are still way up in the air.
Crazy. Crazy I tell you.
dat be meh![ROFL1]
Yes, he's nuts. He pushes metal boxes full of people high into the sky for a living. Next thing you'll hear is that his hobby is to jump out of smaller versions of those boxes - while there are still way up in the air.
Crazy. Crazy I tell you.
i was thinking elevator repairman but think i figured it out. you guys are crafty[Beer]
I just read the whole thing over there on ar15.com.
in all honestly, had it been done the right way you could have saved yourself. right now a bunch of the tards got on there and jumped on the band wagon (as usual) and it looks grim.
the guy selling the rail didn't want to drag it out any more and sold the rail to the next guy in line so my previous advice is worthless now.
Money orders are generally what people use. I have used paypal for some things, but I prefer to only receive money orders. paypal is anti-gun, so I am anti-paypal (as much as possible).
I think if you would have bought the rail right away after the -1, even if it meant dipping into emergency funds, then selling it on here or put it right back on ar15.com, then it would have been alright.
at this point just chalk it up to them being extreme on their rule enforcement (which in all honesty they need to be to keep a site that big in order). move on with your life. there are lots of gun boards and you can always figure out another way to create an account.
ar15.com's tech sections are excellent and and managed very differently than its general discussion area, which has a generous share of shenanigans.
ar15.com's tech sections are excellent and and managed very differently than its general discussion area, which has a generous share of shenanigans.
I'll take your word for it.
I wouldn't know, I got banned by a racist moderator because I mocked a large black family that got in a brawl at a child's funeral.
DeusExMachina
01-17-2011, 22:55
Bumping this because I am fully expecting to be kicked off Arfcom any time now.
I wanted to purchase an item from someone I found in the local EE search. I said I will take it FTF. So I sent a note along.
Guy responds and says shipping will be $6. I told him I wanted to do it FTF. His response is, "That's welching and not to be a dick but it will get you kicked off the site." He's a mod, too.
Why would I pay $6 to ship a freaking belt? I'd rather go pick it up. And if he's shy, then I'll just order a new one and have it shipped.
Basically, he's extorting me to buy his damn item or going to have me banned.
ChunkyMonkey
01-17-2011, 22:59
I'll take your word for it.
I wouldn't know, I got banned by a racist moderator because I mocked a large black family that got in a brawl at a child's funeral.
ahhahaha.. That sounds familiar, because I got banned from voicing my opinion about the Hmong killer few years back. The guy who trespassed and killed a family.
Yeah, it's getting crazy rediculous. They started doing the ban thing in late 2008 when the forums were full of 1 and 2 post people trying to panic buy, then backing out...
And I agree it's not welching just because you want to do it FTF...
ChunkyMonkey
01-17-2011, 23:02
Guy responds and says shipping will be $6. I told him I wanted to do it FTF. His response is, "That's welching and not to be a dick but it will get you kicked off the site." He's a mod, too.
Why would I pay $6 to ship a freaking belt? I'd rather go pick it up. And if he's shy, then I'll just order a new one and have it shipped.
Basically, he's extorting me to buy his damn item or going to have me banned.
Most of the general discussion mods and the vocal minority there have no idea what welching means.
DeusExMachina
01-17-2011, 23:06
Yeah. I feel that FTF was part of the deal, if he didn't want to do it, then I'm not doing the deal. I think its insane to allow people to leverage a rule to force people to buy.
I say I'm buying something, I say I sent the money, a week goes by and no money shows up: okay, that's welching. Making the words "I'll take it" a binding contact is ludicrous.
ChunkyMonkey
01-17-2011, 23:09
So what happened if the item is not as described and so on?
DeusExMachina
01-17-2011, 23:11
So what happened if the item is not as described and so on?
I hope there's some common sense, but who knows. They will ban people for anything.
Not sure what the point of their complicated and awful feedback system is if one negative gets you booted.
Not sure what the point of their complicated and awful feedback system is if one negative gets you booted.
I agree...
Eldorado556
01-17-2011, 23:21
Just imagine you're the seller. You need to sell the rail to fix your truck. Some guy says he'll take it but backs out because his truck is also broken. [Bang]
Posting an "I'll take it" is taken seriously by a lot of people. It's some sort of internet mojo handshake. If you don't have the cash, don't type the words.
There are a lot of hot heads on some of the boards. I'm a mod on another forum and I've only ever banned spammers. Ya gotta be a real douche to get the ban hammer.
Bumping this because I am fully expecting to be kicked off Arfcom any time now.
I wanted to purchase an item from someone I found in the local EE search. I said I will take it FTF. So I sent a note along.
Guy responds and says shipping will be $6. I told him I wanted to do it FTF. His response is, "That's welching and not to be a dick but it will get you kicked off the site." He's a mod, too.
Why would I pay $6 to ship a freaking belt? I'd rather go pick it up. And if he's shy, then I'll just order a new one and have it shipped.
Basically, he's extorting me to buy his damn item or going to have me banned.
From what it sounds he is being dick. If he doesn't want to do a FTF then he should just say no thanks. The mods at afcrom are terrible. I ended up getting banned and I decided not to "dispute" it. Its not worth my time arguing with them.
ChunkyMonkey
01-17-2011, 23:29
From what it sounds he is being dick. If he doesn't want to do a FTF then he should just say no thanks. The mods at afcrom are terrible. I ended up getting banned and I decided not to "dispute" it. Its not worth my time arguing with them.
mod = god to some folks and their little world lol
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NA6XQE_ImEI/S1imUtGPI_I/AAAAAAAABTc/9GPzMd1RnoM/s400/i-am-the-law.jpg
patrick0685
01-17-2011, 23:43
im glad i found this place, i havent been back since
If, in your original message, you said you wanted it FTF, that's just negotiating. He was free to turn you down right there. If you don't like what a mod does there, take it to site staff in a private IM.
On the other hand, if you said you'd take it and then added the FTF later, I can see his point.
bitch over there.
MY $0.02
+1
i was banned for "whelching"...
Great! Now ya tell me.
I'll stick with the local board. [HiFive]
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