Rocky Mountain Gun Owners - Concealed Carry "Training"?

[LeJerk]

I was reading an email I got today advertising it. Instead of actually training people, they give them the minimum amount of information to get their permit. I'm of the opposite opinion that we should be providing people MORE training in the effective, safe, and legal use of firearms. No live fire? One night?

"We believe you'll also leave with a solid foundation to build upon."
Build upon? Or not... Go get a gun! Who cares if you know how to use it?

Am I off base here? Do I just "not get it"?

[TFOGGER]

Dudley generally targets this class at the more experienced crowd, and strongly encourages students to get as much additional training as they can.

[gnihcraes]

I didn't get mine through RMGO, but did only pay $75 and 4 hours. I don't feel I was cheated or don't have enough experience to handle my firearm.

Everyone buys a car and doesn't take a class on using it. Each car is different you know.

[sniper7]

I did mine with Jim on here.

think of all the learning you do on here about gun laws. I know I am constantly learning. most of these laws cops don't even know or memorize. only a lawyer or judge will find them after the fact and apply them to you as if you knew them by heart.

there is only soo much knowledge a person can take in during a single day or even in a weekend.

I am sure some of the $$ goes to helping our cause. I am sure the numbers that are gained (i mean total CCW permits issued) will also help our cause when Dudley takes that info to congressman or senators or whoever and tells them our side of the story.

also take a look at some of the others classes out there where wrong information has been given. I can recall at least 3 on here. I am sure there are more.

I have no problem with it, as long as people are going in, they are going to get some kind of a foundation to build on. hopefully those people that go will continue to learn on there own, take additional classes, go shooting and do some extra research on their own or look on this site for a lot of good information.

[BPTactical]

Whatever you do stay away from "GunStroke" er Gunsmoke. They are the "Puppy Mill" of CCW classes and you would get a better education playing Call of Duty.
I know two people that have gone through it and said it was a waste of money.

[newracer]

This is why the training is only the minimum to meet the state requirements. It is a protest of sorts.


Constitutional Carry/Vermont our goal - RMGO has long held the belief that training should be voluntary, not mandatory. No other group -- none -- can lay claim to opposing government-mandated training for concealed carry for the decade-long battle for Colorado's concealed carry law. In fact, we've been advocating for true freedom -- a Vermont-style concealed carry law (if you can legally possess a firearm, you can carry, without a "big-brother-may-I") -- since the group's inception, and will continue to push for it.

Voluntary vs. Government-mandated training -- That doesn't mean we are opposed to training. Anyone who owns a firearm should get as much quality training as they can possibly afford. We are, however, opposed to government-mandated training. And one of the reasons we are conducting concealed carry classes is because we believe citizens already have to jump through too many hurdles to obtain a concealed handgun permit. Therefore, we offer the least onerous class the law will allow while still covering everything a citizen needs to know before acquiring a permit.

[Bailey Guns]

The "training" issue has been beaten to death here and it typically raises the blood pressure of a lot folks, myself included.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that anyone legal to own/possess a handgun should be allowed to carry that handgun without a permit. Regardless of their level of training.

I've made the argument before that most live-fire training received in CCW classes really doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the long run. I don't really want to rehash that again. My sentiments on the subject can be found in this thread (http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3286).

Frankly, I really disagree with RMGO on this issue. Why a "Vermont-style" system? Sure...in Vermont anyone who may legally own/possess a handgun may carry it concealed without a permit. But it's my understanding Vermont doesn't issue permits so if you're a Vermont resident, you're outta luck if you travel outside the state in terms of legally carrying in other states. You'd need to obtain a non-resident permit from Utah or some other state that issues them in order to legally carry outside of Vermont...and that kinda defeats the whole purpose of not needing a permit.

Why not an "Alaska-style" permit? Alaska doesn't require it's residents to get permits, either. But they do issue them for those who might travel out of state. And I think about 38 states honor Alaska's permits.

You'd think RMGO would catch on to this and argue for Alaska's system as opposed to Vermont's.

[TFOGGER]

The "training" issue has been beaten to death here and it typically raises the blood pressure of a lot folks, myself included.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that anyone legal to own/possess a handgun should be allowed to carry that handgun without a permit. Regardless of their level of training.

I've made the argument before that most live-fire training received in CCW classes really doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the long run. I don't really want to rehash that again. My sentiments on the subject can be found in this thread (http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3286).

Frankly, I really disagree with RMGO on this issue. Why a "Vermont-style" system? Sure...in Vermont anyone who may legally own/possess a handgun may carry it concealed without a permit. But it's my understanding Vermont doesn't issue permits so if you're a Vermont resident, you're outta luck if you travel outside the state in terms of legally carrying in other states. You'd need to obtain a non-resident permit from Utah or some other state that issues them in order to legally carry outside of Vermont...and that kinda defeats the whole purpose of not needing a permit.

Why not an "Alaska-style" permit? Alaska doesn't require it's residents to get permits, either. But they do issue them for those who might travel out of state. And I think about 38 states honor Alaska's permits.

You'd think RMGO would catch on to this and argue for Alaska's system as opposed to Vermont's.

+1

Constitutional carry is a worthy long term goal, but until all states adopt it, the Alaska/Arizona model makes more sense.

[buffalobo]

Has anybody pointed this out to Dudley?

[weirjf]

I didn't get mine through RMGO, but did only pay $75 and 4 hours. I don't feel I was cheated or don't have enough experience to handle my firearm.

Everyone buys a car and doesn't take a class on using it. Each car is different you know.

I did my class with PROFIREUSA. It was 8 hours and $150 but they not only go through the laws and help give you all the information you need to help keep you out of jail but they do 1-on-1 with each person to teach familiarity with their weapon. They also go over the Utah CCW laws and help you fill out the forms to get both Colorado and Utah CCW licenses. They also offer to do the fingerprint cards while onsite for an additional fee. IMO, worth every penny.

On a side note about training:
At the end of the class they asked everyone who had done live-fire training with their weapon and I was the only person that raised my hand. Most on the 1-on-1 with their weapons had never even fired their weapon but intended on carrying it daily.

In the end, it is just common courtesy for those around you that people who are going to carry be familiar with their weapon and be able to hit what they are aiming at. That, or don't complain if you miss the bad guy and shoot me and I shoot you after I shoot the bad guy. Formal training or just plain range time exercises... either is fine in my book. I'm a 3rd award rifle expert and 1st award handgun sharp shooter but I still did the formal live fire training, if anything so that I had it in my records in the event I end up in court for protecting myself against a scumbag. [AR15]